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  1. #281
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    Apr 2010
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    Jersey Shore
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    Regarding the ackerman... I think the rule of thumb for was something like if you had an imaginary line drawn through the tie rod end and lower balljoint, the drivers and passenger side should intersect at the rear axle. This would mean for a front steer car, the tie rod end is further out than the lower balljoint. I think its definitely a worthy thing to explore... Alot of the suspension kits that were utilizing a C5/6 spindle are now offering different steering arms to correct the ackerman that was designed into the C5/6 spindle with the intention of a different wheelbase.

    -Chris
    '69 Corvette
    '55 Chevy Hardtop
    AutoWorks Middletown, NJ
    @autoworksnj for corvette and shop car pics
    https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...e-Build-Thread


  2. #282
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by vette427-sbc View Post
    Regarding the ackerman... I think the rule of thumb for was something like if you had an imaginary line drawn through the tie rod end and lower balljoint, the drivers and passenger side should intersect at the rear axle. This would mean for a front steer car, the tie rod end is further out than the lower balljoint. I think its definitely a worthy thing to explore... Alot of the suspension kits that were utilizing a C5/6 spindle are now offering different steering arms to correct the ackerman that was designed into the C5/6 spindle with the intention of a different wheelbase.
    I think I did see a couple crude drawings online that showed something along those lines, thanks! I also noticed all the different steering arms for vette spindles and I'm kind of jealous about it. I found 2 options for my spindles so far, but one is for circle track and I'm not too sure about it yet. The other looks great aside from it saying it's for zero ackerman front steer. These people are killing me here! Haha. As usual I'm stuck with the idea of having to make my own, but I have no idea how to even start that and make sure it's strong enough. Anyone ever made steering arms?
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  3. #283
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    383
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    Quote Originally Posted by 70CougarXr7 View Post
    Been watching before and said it before, amazing how you do this,
    Bunch of car wizzards on here.

    I need to hear that engine running too :D, so post a video when its running
    I'm just a young guy with enough knowledge to be dangerous, but thanks for the kind words. I'm so glad there is actually people watching along even if they don't always chime in.

    You better believe I will share multiple videos. I take sound quality VERY seriously too. I've actually kinda vlogged a good bit of the build, but I'm not too hot at editing which makes me super slow at it. The idea was of course to share on YouTube for those that prefer watching strangers talk to a camera. That will probably happen eventually.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  4. #284
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    112
    This is a great idea to document your build as much as possible. I can't count how many times I've tried searching for suspension related things on google and any bit of info was so hard to find. The more material out there hopefully the better the search engines can pick it up. It takes a lot of time to do though.
    Doug

    1970 chevelle, carb'd, turbo'd 383ci with a tremec tko.

  5. #285
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    383
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    Yeah I completely agree. If this even helps one person it was worth it to me.

    The most difficult thing I've had to find was actual measurements and degree info on setting this type of suspension up. I was so surprised that more people haven't shared so I'm happy to put it out there. I'll be making sure to update as I test so that you can see any changes I have to make from where I'm starting from now.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  6. #286
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Peoria, AZ
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    1,589
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    Regarding Ackerman and it's effectiveness on street and on track...

    My car's Ackerman was greatly increased when I put the ATS spindles on a couple of years ago. My first road test after included a series of 35 mph off\on ramps where two 4 lane highways intersected. I'd typically take these long sweeping corners at around 80-90 mph and on this first test it was immediately apparent how much better the front end reacted mid-turn compared to before...because of the increased Ackerman. Mid turn, steady state, just the slightest input into the steering wheel resulted in immediate reaction from the front tires.

    I'm not sure what the Ackerman was on the stock spindles but with the steering arms pointed out on the ATS spindles, I now see 21 degrees on the outside tire net 27 degrees on the inside tire. This has helped EVERYWHERE and I see no ill affects street driving, autocrossing or on track days.

    The way I see it, we are already getting everything we can out of the outside front tire...so gains on the inside front tire are the only way to get more front grip. Running huge caster and Ackerman along with a large front sway bar all help to plant that inside front tire for more front grip.
    Lance
    1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

  7. #287
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    383
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    Great real world feedback! I also agree with you about making the inside tire more beneficial as we all focus pretty much exclusively on the outside. I'd love to correct my lack of Ackerman while I'm in here, but I can't find steering arms that are any help.

    You're usually up on what's out there for parts....know of anything at all for front steer with these spindles?
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  8. #288
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    Not a huge leap forward, but there is a complete drive line in the chassis now. This is definitely the confidence booster I needed. Almost kinda makes me sad to have to go out of town while I'm making good progress.

    First I trimmed the X enough for the driveshaft to slide home

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    Then I bent up and fitted my loop to the existing cross member that supports the cab. That Rogue Fabrication M600 bender is so easy to make something like this. I actually bent that flare up on the cross member, but forgot to take a photo. That was for the front factory fuel tank.

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    After that I cut tubes to tie the X back into the loop which made everything super strong again. It's actually stronger than before since there is support in the middle now. I won't go much further than this with bracing due to space limitations, but just putting a jack under one corner of the frame, I can feel a huge increase in stiffness.

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    I think it all fits perfectly and looks pretty great too. I most likely wouldn't do it this way if I was doing it over again, but this will work totally great. Yes, I will cap off each tube. It will just be easier to do after I remove everything.

    Also thought I would show the diff side of the driveshaft. I originally wanted the same CV joint that is on the stock mustang drive shaft, but DSS recommended this flange they make since my TKO already has a slip yoke. A CV would let the driveshaft float back and forth. I have to say, it fits flawlessly and they even included bolts. Funny how many parts I have gotten that don't have the hardware. The hardware dept guy at Lowe's knows me now because I'm always looking for grade 8 bolts. Haha

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    I also noticed something else while working on the back half last night. The OEM parking brake cables routed through a bracket just under the driver's butt on the frame. The mustang cables actually reach over there easily so I might try to adapt it to the stock E brake setup. It will fit easier once I cut the leaf spring mounts off, but they are doing great as jack stand mounts right now. Funny all the little things you never think of when you start a project like this.

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    That's probably all I'll get done for a couple weeks as I have a work conference coming up and I always fly to MD to see all my family for the 4th of July. I'm already excited to get back and finish the frame though.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  9. #289
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
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    383
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    Wow! It has been a hot minute since I was able to come update you guys. Of course you've seen that I have been working if you follow my instagram.

    So since the last update I revised my X brace design thanks to input from another member. I was bummed about the idea of redoing ANOTHER part, but I'm glad I did now.

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    This was all to prep that section for making a home for my fuel cell. It will live at the front of the bed, 2 inches above the driveshaft. Yes I am making a plate to protect the bottom from any potential exploding shafts.

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    I went with the aluminum can, 18 gallon, and internal 350LPH Aeromotive pump. It's supposed to be good for up to 700hp on E85. Only weighs 45lbs with no fuel in it!

    The biggest thing I did was buy a gantry crane. Some of you may have noticed that The cab has been suspended above the frame held up by bricks on furniture dollies. It's kinda sketchy, but the best I could do working alone at the time. The cab has always been in my way and I didn't have room to try and use my engine crane to lift the cab. I should have bought this crane months ago!

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    Oh yeah....I made the frame a roller. That was a cool moment to see it support it's own weight after all these months. One main issue that popped up if the front frame rails need A LOT more support to take the suspension loads. It was flexing just under it's own weight.

    And the last update for this post is another failed attempt to buy premade headers. This has become a frustrating part of the process. See the issue?

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    I have no idea how anyone would ever get a spark plug wire in that area. Everything else about these headers is actually pretty fantastic, but without spark none of it matters. So I suppose these go back and I just have to modify the first set I got since that vendor refuses to respond to anything.

    I think I decided on what to do with my steering arms. The more I look at them now, the more I know it's wrong to leave it be. The only guy I can find that ever made steering arms to fix the front-steer Akerman for this A-body spindle stopped making them a few years back (just my luck). So I'm going to make a little jig to cut and weld the arms in a better position. More to come on that, but any tips or suggestions are welcome.

    More soon
    -Sean
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  10. #290
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    Posts
    604
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    What is your IG handle? Link in your sig appears to be broken. I've been missing the truck updates lol

    For the SBF some heads here designed with straight plugs, some were designed with angled plugs. Those heads look like they are the "angle" plug type similar to a GT40P head like I have on my Rustang (unless the pic angle is throwing me off), and I'm guessing the headers were designed for "straight" plug heads. Here's a link with a pic showing the difference: https://www.explorerforum.com/forums...estion.417681/

    That might explain the issue with the plug clearance. Certainly worth looking into, but I think you're going to end up modifying/building your own headers due to the application. Both of the cars my family has built ran into header issues. Our 69 Torino with a 351 Cleveland in it took two sets of headers cut apart and rerouted to clear the steering components, and it still is tight. On the other hand, our Chevelle with a 350 SBC we thought we were good, and they managed to screw those up too and we had to modify them.

    The only headers I've never had to touch were the ones I put on my Rustang, and they were designed by Ford so that explains why they actually fit.
    Nelson
    1969 Chevelle "Cone Smasher" Family Project
    https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...uot?highlight=

    1984 "Rustang" GT, 5.0, 5 Speed Project
    https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...T-(Slow-Build)

  11. #291
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
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    383
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    Thanks for the heads up about the link being broken. All better now. My handle is @innovaspeed if that helps.

    You are right that these heads have angled plugs vs the stock heads having straight. Oddly enough, I feel like straight plugs would fit far worse with these headers. They are nicely built for a great price, but I need spark to run. Haha.

    I talked to the header manufacturer earlier today and the tech was like "oh yeah those never work right with aftermarket heads." UGH!!! It doesn't say that anywhere in the description. So yes, at this point I'm going to be modifying the first headers I bought. Why am I cutting up $1300 headers instead of something cheaper you might ask? Because the vendor (thankfully not a sponsor here) has not responded to any form of communication I've attempted over multiple months. So if I'm stuck with them, I'm gonna just make it work.

    I have both modified and scratch built headers before so you'd think I wouldn't be so resistant, but it's so time consuming and tedious that I just want to bolt some on and keep going. This project has taken much longer than anticipated so I'm anxious to get onto more interesting tasks. I have also been to the dyno and seen first hand how fast craptastic headers can kill 30-50hp. I refuse to choke up this expensive of an engine and I want this thing to sound mean too.

    Hopefully I can knock this out within the next week. I want to see what kind of exhaust clearance I have so I can add more chassis bracing.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  12. #292
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    Posts
    604
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    I know what you mean about projects taking a long time. We had a date in mind for when we wanted our Chevelle done, and we missed it by a year and a half lol. The little things add up quick and next thing you know 3 months have gone by.

    Keep the updates coming, and the progress will come with them!
    Nelson
    1969 Chevelle "Cone Smasher" Family Project
    https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...uot?highlight=

    1984 "Rustang" GT, 5.0, 5 Speed Project
    https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...T-(Slow-Build)

  13. #293
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
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    383
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    This weekend was a fun one for this project. I'm feeling more like I can get this running sooner rather than later for sure.

    Got the actual engine in for the first time. So think about it. No more mock up parts...this is all the real deal from engine to drive axles. And it all fit perfectly! Plus it looks like I can kick the bottom of the radiator toward the engine to better encourage airflow, but we will get more into that in a couple weeks or so.

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    Looks like it was made for it. Oh yeah...it was. Haha. Before the engine went in I did the last set of boxing plate on either side of the motor mounts. This will help the frame not flex so bad and give me a good sport to add more reinforcements to the engine and shock mounts. You can see in the first photo that I added 1/4" plate reinforcement inside the frame rail before I covered it. I'm hoping this further encourages everything to hold it's shape. In order to connect the new plate to it I made some slots with the grinder and then just welded it up. I'm super happy with the end result.

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    Once all that was done and the engine installed I finally cut up those headers. First cut was kinda painful to do, but once I got over it the rest was business as usual. One bright side to cutting up expensive parts is that it's a good quality material to work with so I suppose that is the silver lining. By modifying only 1 tube on each header everything will fit perfectly.

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    I have to admit that I'm totally confused how these headers are expected to bolt onto this engine even without my giant oil pan. I even have a more compact starter and it's right where a tube used to be before I cut it to reroute! Fortunately these were done with a slip-on collector so that's making this much easier than normal. I did have to order some additional tube to complete the job so I'll do other stuff this week while I wait. I also ran out of welding gas (again). Hopefully I can pick more up today.

    The list of tasks left before the frame is done has shrunken considerably. I'm down to fuel cell mount, couple of filler plates, finish weld the rear subframe to the main frame, add a few reinforcing tubes, flip to weld the bottom, and paint. Sure that will take some effort and time, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  14. #294
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    159
    Looks like it is getting close! Can't wait to see some video's of you tearing it up in this. :thumbsup:

  15. #295
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    South Lyon, MI
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    Are you planning to box the frame or gusset it where it supports the rear shock top mounts? It looks like there may be some potential for the top flange of the frame rail to flex, unless there is something I cannot see in the photos.

  16. #296
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    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaymzz View Post
    Looks like it is getting close! Can't wait to see some video's of you tearing it up in this. :thumbsup:
    Thanks buddy! I will still have to remove everything from the frame 1 more time to finish weld and paint, but the install should be super simple. Famous last words right?
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  17. #297
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    Aug 2012
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    Peoria, AZ
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    Looking great Sean, love that you are making progress even in these undesirable temperatures!!
    Lance
    1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

  18. #298
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    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSLance View Post
    Looking great Sean, love that you are making progress even in these undesirable temperatures!!
    Thanks Lance! Yeah these days at like 115 degrees are kicking my ass and slowing things down. I can go hard for about 30-40 minutes and then have to come in and cool off. I started at 6am Saturday and Sunday just to try and get something done before it was too hot. My new shop can't come soon enough!
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  19. #299
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    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    Another solid weekend done! All this forward progress lately is helping keep my motivation levels up, but I'm sooooo ready to start this engine!

    First up was to TIG my two modified header primaries. Honestly, I've been putting this off. Now that I have finished I'm laughing at myself because it really wasn't that bad. Lucky for me, these came with a slip-fit collector so I could tack everything together and then remove just that tube for welding. Then insert and install right after. Piece of cake (no really, I literally treated myself to cake after this).

    This:
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    To this:
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    I am wayyyy out of practice with my TIG welding and that's even more true for this thin stainless. I used to knock out a full custom race system in a day with fairly pretty welds. These were....well it will hold and not leak.

    Once I bolted those on with gaskets (24hr Autozone 2 miles from home is legit), I decided to keep rolling on the exhaust and do the rest. I bought a universal 3" 304 stainless kit from Flowmaster when I got my mufflers. I chose a pair of their Hushpower Pro Shorty series mufflers. I've run the Hushpower series on multiple vehicles with multiple engines and I generally won't run anything else. It's extremely effective, but makes killer sound and power with a small package. I'm using univeral stainless hangers from Summit.

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    I orginally wanted to do a side exit just in front of the rear tires. After looking at the frame vs bed side position I scrapped the idea. Just too complicated to make it look right and would end up routing hot exhaust tubes next to my battery and fuel cell. So thanks to the wonder of Amazon Prime same day delivery, I had 2 45's delivered that dump off the mufflers at the front of the rear suspension. Light and simple.

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    It's not hard to notice that there is some missing tubes for the frame there. Good eye. It was suggested to me that I redo my brace setup and now that it is done, I 110% agree. Looks and fits so much better.

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    And that's where I stopped. Next two big tasks are fuel cell mount and modifying the steering arms (been avoiding these just like the headers). Hopefully both turn out to be as easy as the exhaust was.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  20. #300
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
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    383
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    Question for you guys, I am going over my list of remaining items for frame fabrication (getting pretty short!) and I realized that I still need to finalize how I'm mounting the sway bar, and more importantly, where it will link to the control arms. Traditionally they are linked to the lower arms, but I don't have a ton of room to work with there when you factor in the shock/spring. In fact there is pretty much no room except for the inside of the arm which obviously doesn't move as much as the outside (theoretically limiting the effectiveness of the bar). I saw that No Limit has their sway bars linked to the upper arms out by the ball joint. Is there any notable drawbacks to me doing the same? It leaves much more room to avoid potential bind, but I have no idea about strength limitations.

    Thanks in advance!
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

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