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  1. #201
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    Oct 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaymzz View Post
    For some reason I have never seen the Racepak products. I have been looking into Hallteck but now going to dig deeper into Racepak now also. Thank you.
    Your truck is looking good!
    Glad to present a new brand then. They are owned by Holley, but seem to function pretty independently. If you are looking at PDMs in general I would HIGHLY recommend http://www.rywire.com/category-s/1930.htm to educate and see even more options. I specifically was going to run the Moristech P30 with Racegrade keypad which is literally half the cost, but you have to be more fluent in OpenCAN language. Even then, I wasn't guaranteed to be able to get it talking with my Dominator. So that's why I did what I did. All of these systems are really freaking cool and will become a staple of any future builds I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ddkeeler View Post
    Dude that rod end had to be super expensive. Iím trying to decide what ball joints to run. What are they?
    Ready to be surprised? https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/R1898.html is where I get them all. While it's not quite as high quality as maybe an FK or QA1, the bang for the buck is undeniable. RuffStuff has been amazing to deal with decent prices. My "ball joints" are actually 1" uniballs like you commonly find on an off-road truck. The idea was they are incredibly strong, easy to fabricate with, and a breeze to service. If you are building from scratch it is worth a consideration. But know that a ball joint seats more solid with it's tapered shaft. I would say to evaluate based on what spindle you use. I had no off-the-shelf options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ddkeeler View Post
    When designing a suspension with those type of control arms, should a certain degree of camber or caster be designed into them? Or should they be left as close to 0 as possible err on the side of more caster and less camber?

    Am I over thinking this?
    Don't worry, this entire project is an exercise in how much I can overthink stuff. Haha. I set everything right in the middle of the adjustment range I wanted. That way I could tune more or less from my base settings. That would be where you'd need to decide what you want your starting or "base" settings to be. But to be fair, I'm cutting these arms off in favor of a more simplified setup. Check back after this weekend and I'll have some pics up.

    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram


  2. #202
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by Sbeck09 View Post
    Glad to present a new brand then. They are owned by Holley, but seem to function pretty independently. If you are looking at PDMs in general I would HIGHLY recommend http://www.rywire.com/category-s/1930.htm to educate and see even more options. I specifically was going to run the Moristech P30 with Racegrade keypad which is literally half the cost, but you have to be more fluent in OpenCAN language. Even then, I wasn't guaranteed to be able to get it talking with my Dominator. So that's why I did what I did. All of these systems are really freaking cool and will become a staple of any future builds I do.



    Ready to be surprised? https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/R1898.html is where I get them all. While it's not quite as high quality as maybe an FK or QA1, the bang for the buck is undeniable. RuffStuff has been amazing to deal with decent prices. My "ball joints" are actually 1" uniballs like you commonly find on an off-road truck. The idea was they are incredibly strong, easy to fabricate with, and a breeze to service. If you are building from scratch it is worth a consideration. But know that a ball joint seats more solid with it's tapered shaft. I would say to evaluate based on what spindle you use. I had no off-the-shelf options.



    Don't worry, this entire project is an exercise in how much I can overthink stuff. Haha. I set everything right in the middle of the adjustment range I wanted. That way I could tune more or less from my base settings. That would be where you'd need to decide what you want your starting or "base" settings to be. But to be fair, I'm cutting these arms off in favor of a more simplified setup. Check back after this weekend and I'll have some pics up.
    Is how you mounted the uniball technically in single sheer? I’m just curious, because I thought about doing something similar, but saw that it is recommended to run the the joint between two mounts in case a heim joint fails.

  3. #203
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ddkeeler View Post
    Is how you mounted the uniball technically in single sheer? Iím just curious, because I thought about doing something similar, but saw that it is recommended to run the the joint between two mounts in case a heim joint fails.
    Yeah you are kinda right. And with a standard heim joint I'd always go double sheer. I've seen these uniballs put on way heavier vehicles in way harsher environments so I don't really sweat it in this case. Uniballs are designed to take significantly higher loads than a normal heim joint.

    Exhibit A:

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    Camburg has A LOT on the line if this fails. Yet you can clearly see they use it to directly replace the upper ball joint of a current production F150 that is expected to be used off road.

    Exhibit B:

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    FJ Cruiser lower control arm from a different reputable company. You can plainly see it setup in single sheer. My mind says those are both way harsher scenarios. But if you know different or better, please say so now. I haven't figured out how to mount my lower in double sheer or it would already be done.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  4. #204
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Omaha, NE
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    54
    I will have to look into these uniballs some more. They definitely have more visuAl appeal than a traditional ball joint. I’m really digging your build, can’t wait for you to have it up and running!

  5. #205
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    Had another visit from the UPS guy. It's basically a daily occurrence lately. He will definitely be back again tomorrow. Haha.

    Here is a teaser of what's in store for this weekend's task on this beast....

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    I also need to head up to the engine builder tomorrow afternoon. I'm gonna snap a few pics for you guys before it goes completely together this week. It's at about the 50% mark with all the machining done. He ended up doing more porting than anticipated on the heads and lower intake. Can't wait! We're gonna make some POWER.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  6. #206
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    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    Well the fun of cutting up my hard work has passed and I'm soooo happy with the new upper control arms.

    But first an update from my trip to see the engine progress and fork over more money. Brian has been pretty backed up with work and I've been pretty transparent about my slow pace so he hasn't rushed. The motor will be completed for me to pick up within a week though. I'm stoked! I can't wait to light it up.

    Block was sitting ready for all the bearings which were right there. I'm next in line now.

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    There is the stupid crank that took an eternity to show up.

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    The heads look awesome. He touched about 90% of the ports and they are HUGE. This thing is gonna breathe. My custom cam should eat it up. All the parts were ready for final assembly. He just wants to check final piston to valve clearance first.

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    What really matters is how much I got done. I'm starting to feel a little time crunch with all the work Ive done 3-4x now. This suspension has kicked my ass thoroughly, but I am feeling like it's pretty on point. The main thing was to get the new upper control arms built. This should have been what I did from the beginning. THANK YOU to everyone that chimed in about these parts.

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    I was concerned about how heavy duty this stuff was when I looked at the pics online. Well damn. It's all so much beefier in person. The mounts are 1/2" steel plate and the arms are freaking heavy duty. I have no concern about these holding up. I went with the Joe's arms since they are dual ball bearing on each side and offered the little mounting plate for me to make my own arms. It's all fully rebuild-able. It all worked flawlessly together. Now I can shim and adjust each individual part without affecting other adjustments. And it's sooo fast and easy. I'm actually excited to set this up for the track. Best part, through 4" of suspension cycle I get 3 degrees of camber gain (is that good/bad?) and ZERO caster change. I'm calling this a win.

    Somehow I forgot to snap a photo, but you can see that I revised my lower arms. I stole the layout from Cortex S197 arms. Looks like this gained me just under 1" of inboard wheel clearance so I shouldn't have any more tire rub at full lock. For the custom wheels, I'll add the extra width to the outside so I don't even have to worry about it. These will be getting a bunch more reinforcement to deal with the stresses of potholes.

    All that's left is to bevel the upper arm mounts so I can weld them in really solid. Then disassemble, clean, and paint it all. Hell, I'm so proud of these I might even do some color rather than standard black. What do you guys think?
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  7. #207
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    Jun 2012
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    South Lyon, MI
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    2 thumbs up. Looking very good.

  8. #208
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    Jan 2016
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    Forney, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sbeck09 View Post
    Somehow I forgot to snap a photo, but you can see that I revised my lower arms. I stole the layout from Cortex S197 arms. Looks like this gained me just under 1" of inboard wheel clearance so I shouldn't have any more tire rub at full lock. For the custom wheels, I'll add the extra width to the outside so I don't even have to worry about it. These will be getting a bunch more reinforcement to deal with the stresses of potholes.

    All that's left is to bevel the upper arm mounts so I can weld them in really solid. Then disassemble, clean, and paint it all. Hell, I'm so proud of these I might even do some color rather than standard black. What do you guys think?
    Woohoo! That gain is badass and the rest of the parts look burly as hell. IMHO black or body color for the arms.
    88 Ford Mustang - The Grey Ghost
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  9. #209
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    Jun 2012
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    South Lyon, MI
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    What is your kingpin inclination angle? From the photos it looks to be reasonably high.

    How does it compare to your design caster angle?

    If your kingpin inclination angle is greater than your caster angle, turning the outside wheel inward (in a corner) will reduce your static camber. So many production spindles have a kingpin inclination angle that is 12-15 degrees, but only a few degrees of caster.

    I am setting my front suspension to have about 12 degrees of static caster. This is about equal to the kingpin inclination. But I have slugs in the control arm shafts like you do and can add more caster if needed.

  10. #210
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    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by frink84 View Post
    Woohoo! That gain is badass and the rest of the parts look burly as hell. IMHO black or body color for the arms.
    Not gonna do body color since it will ultimately be wrapped so I can change colors, but I did think about it. I was thinking I'd match the diff and control arms to the engine paint since they all need paint anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by cornfedbill View Post
    What is your kingpin inclination angle? From the photos it looks to be reasonably high.

    How does it compare to your design caster angle?

    If your kingpin inclination angle is greater than your caster angle, turning the outside wheel inward (in a corner) will reduce your static camber. So many production spindles have a kingpin inclination angle that is 12-15 degrees, but only a few degrees of caster.

    I am setting my front suspension to have about 12 degrees of static caster. This is about equal to the kingpin inclination. But I have slugs in the control arm shafts like you do and can add more caster if needed.
    Thanks for bringing this up! I haven't really found much info on Kingpin inclination as far as what's "good" or "bad". I believe mine is about 10 degrees, but I'm having a hard time measuring it accurately. I have my base caster setting at 6 degrees with the ability to add quite a bit more. I might bump my base to 7 degrees though. If I'm understanding, I would want to reduce my kingpin angle to 6 degrees or less? Any help here is great.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
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  11. #211
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    Sep 2011
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    188
    I can't wait to see this in person!!!
    Great work my friend!

  12. #212
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    Jun 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sbeck09 View Post
    Thanks for bringing this up! I haven't really found much info on Kingpin inclination as far as what's "good" or "bad". I believe mine is about 10 degrees, but I'm having a hard time measuring it accurately. I have my base caster setting at 6 degrees with the ability to add quite a bit more. I might bump my base to 7 degrees though. If I'm understanding, I would want to reduce my kingpin angle to 6 degrees or less? Any help here is great.
    It's all about balance. The lower the kingpin inclination the greater the scrub radius. 10 degrees is not bad. You will want to lay out the axis through the ball joints and find where it intersects the ground. Remember that the caster changes this point also. Some say it is ideal to have zero scrub, meaning the point at which this axis contacts the ground is in the vertical plane through the centerline of the tire. I'm pretty certain few cars meet this ideal. But you don't want this to be a large amount. You can compensate with wheel offset, but then you reduce clearance to your suspension.

    I would start with the caster nearly the same as your kingpin inclination and do the math. If it looks like there is a problem, then ask for input from others here or research online.

    I am not an expert, but understand the basic concepts. There may be someone here with a different opinion.

  13. #213
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    Aug 2012
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    My kingpin inclination is just under 9 degrees and I run 9.75 degrees of caster.
    Lance
    1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

  14. #214
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    Maybe I'm confused (likely), but after reading over Scrub radius and Kingpin Inclination theory all evening and even some while I'm at work this morning (don't tell the boss), it seems like a slight negative Scrub radius is preferred in a performance application like this. Meaning the tire center-line and KPI intersect above the ground which requires a fairly high Kingpin angle. So that would mean I'm currently set about right, but I'd need to measure better to be 100% sure. I see where KPI obviously affects Scrub, but there doesn't seem to be a set standard based on caster angle vs KPI. Am I wrong?
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sbeck09 View Post
    Maybe I'm confused (likely), but after reading over Scrub radius and Kingpin Inclination theory all evening and even some while I'm at work this morning (don't tell the boss), it seems like a slight negative Scrub radius is preferred in a performance application like this. Meaning the tire center-line and KPI intersect above the ground which requires a fairly high Kingpin angle. So that would mean I'm currently set about right, but I'd need to measure better to be 100% sure. I see where KPI obviously affects Scrub, but there doesn't seem to be a set standard based on caster angle vs KPI. Am I wrong?
    Are you looking at FWD or RWD ideal geometry? FWD cars seem to like more negative scrub then RWD. I am leaning towards intersecting slightly below the ground for my build. Audi, on the other hand, is known for negative scrub radius.

    Obviously, opinions do not all agree on this. I am also certain that you will find good handling cars with both negative and positive scrub radii.

    Remember that camber will change the effective contact patch on the tire. Negative camber will tend to move the effective contact patch inboard - positive camber will have the opposite effect and is evil. Positive camber is always evil...

    With a lot of camber and a negative scrub radius, you may find your steering wheel to be a handful on anything but the smoothest of surfaces.

    Just food for thought.

  16. #216
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    Thanks Bill. Definitely food for thought. I'll have to keep digging into this. What I was reading was mostly geared toward performance driving, but didn't state FWD or RWD. Either way I'm trying to keep my scrub minimal, but not at zero. I didn't even think about the camber change this too. I plan to have around 3 degrees of static negative camber at the track until testing proves a need to change that. Around town I'll probably have about .5 degrees of negative camber set.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
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  17. #217
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    Psst... Performance trends... ;)
    Lance
    1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

  18. #218
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    Oct 2018
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    I know, I know Lance....time for me to suck it up and get the program. I'll download the demo and see if I can do anything productive. If it works, I guess I'm spending the $250.

    Be prepared for a text complaining about how I have no idea what I'm doing. Haha
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
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  19. #219
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    I'm loving this build!! The Joes products are top notch stuff.
    66 Mustang "Project: Ballin on a budget"
    89 Mustang "Box Wine"

  20. #220
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    Oct 2018
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    Thanks for checking in! I like following along with your progress too. One day I'll get to actually build a Mustang rather than putting Mustang parts on an old truck. Haha.

    Yeah I'm pretty impressed with Joe's. I have no doubt their parts will tolerate any beating I give them. I should have bought their stuff from the start.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

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