Cheap Dash and Gauge Combo, Bad Idea?

[74 Camaro]

This is what I've been thinking for my 74 Camaro build.

VFN fiberglass dash $279



Then use some generic gauges from Speedway $215.


Then just cut holes directly into the fiberglass to mount the gauges.

This seems to me like it would be a relatively simple way to go about it. Are there disadvantages I'm not thinking of? One thing that does come to mind is compatibility with all my 74 Camaro components.

This will be a dedicated autocross car with no a/c. Cutting weight is a priority. This dash is cheaper and lighter than the stock style, and makes sense to me. I know it may not look the best, but I'm not building the car so much for looks as speed.

Also, are cheap gauges a bad idea, or do they work just fine?

[GoodysGotaCuda]

If I had a racecar, I would try to just run a racepak. However, the cheap gauges will likely be just fine for you, the last FSAE autocross ecar I built just had warning lights.

Oil Pressure
Shift
pwm coolant light [slow flash when cold, off when at a good temp, solid at "hot" and fast flash at "too hot"]



If you want simple and light, there isn't much time to be watching gauges on an autocross course. That setup told me everything I had to know.

[cornfedbill]

Speedway products I have used have generally been quite good. The gauges may be just fine.

However, I have always found that it is more economical to pay for a good product up front than the deal with the issues of something that is substandard.

[74 Camaro]

Speedway products I have used have generally been quite good. The gauges may be just fine.

However, I have always found that it is more economical to pay for a good product up front than the deal with the issues of something that is substandard.

Good to know!

One thing I did notice is that the speedo and tach might be a bit small. For road driving, I wouldn't want to have to squint too hard to read the gauges. I would be willing to pay a bit more for bigger gauges.

[74 Camaro]

If I had a racecar, I would try to just run a racepak. However, the cheap gauges will likely be just fine for you, the last FSAE autocross ecar I built just had warning lights.

Oil Pressure
Shift
pwm coolant light [slow flash when cold, off when at a good temp, solid at "hot" and fast flash at "too hot"]



If you want simple and light, there isn't much time to be watching gauges on an autocross course. That setup told me everything I had to know.

Thanks for the suggestions! Just a few questions, if you don't mind.

Have you ran with a racepak yourself? If so, what did that setup cost you all said and done? I'm seeing different options on their site that vary in price. I'm also wondering about supporting parts.

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding your FSAE build, but I'm taking it that it did NOT have the racepak, but cheaper, individual warning lights. Where would you suggest I look to start researching this option? Sorry, I'm not very knowledgeable about gauges.

I guess another thing to consider is that this car will be driven to and from events, so it will need a speedo. I can't afford a trailer to haul around a dedicated race car. I also can't afford speeding tickets!

[GoodysGotaCuda]

Thanks for the suggestions! Just a few questions, if you don't mind.

Have you ran with a racepak yourself? If so, what did that setup cost you all said and done? I'm seeing different options on their site that vary in price. I'm also wondering about supporting parts.

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding your FSAE build, but I'm taking it that it did NOT have the racepak, but cheaper, individual warning lights. Where would you suggest I look to start researching this option? Sorry, I'm not very knowledgeable about gauges.

I guess another thing to consider is that this car will be driven to and from events, so it will need a speedo. I can't afford a trailer to haul around a dedicated race car. I also can't afford speeding tickets!

I have not personally installed a racepak, I can't comment much there. The FSAE car was EFI and the ECU had all of the necessary inputs/outputs to run the lights as needed. As far as a speedo, there are tons of cell phone based GPS apps out there that can be used, again, if it's truly a track car and you just need it to get to events, it'd work.

[74 Camaro]

I have not personally installed a racepak, I can't comment much there. The FSAE car was EFI and the ECU had all of the necessary inputs/outputs to run the lights as needed. As far as a speedo, there are tons of cell phone based GPS apps out there that can be used, again, if it's truly a track car and you just need it to get to events, it'd work.

That's a good point. I'm researching my options.

Just to give an idea what I'm thinking. The fiberglass won't look high end, but it will at least look finished. I would prefer for the car to have decent looks and function as a street car so long as it doesn't add too much weight or cost, or detract from performance. I want the gauges to look at least cohesive. I'm just not trying to build a hand-stitched Italian leather dash with custom gauges that will win awards at car shows.

The warning lights do sound like a good idea for racing, but I generally prefer to see actual numbers, so that I can better monitor the progression from okay to barely okay, to not okay. Not that I would have time for that while racing, but could be nice to have in between runs or while on the road. This makes me think that the racepak or something similar could be a great idea. Since these can be programmed different ways, it seems like you could have a race screen and a road screen. These aren't cheap, as far as I can tell. I have read Herb Adam's "Chassis Engineering", and he suggested data loggers as a great tool if you're serious about being fast. His context was road racing, so I'm not sure how well these systems lend themselves to the tight autocross courses.

Has anyone used data loggers for autocross? Did you find it helpful? Considering that gauges do cost money, a data logger system is only so much more than gauges, while providing additional functionality. Is it worth the investment?

[74 Camaro]

One thing I should mention. I do like the idea that these race type dashes are made to be compatible with different systems. So if I ever switch to an ls engine, I will only need to change some of the sensors and cables. Just a thought.

[HotRod47]

You won't have any issue with that dash and an aftermarket set of gauges. My only suggestion, is spend a little more for a good set of gauges. Classic Instruments make nice gauges, Nu-Vintage as well. Then there is Autometer for a more race feel.

[74 Camaro]

You won't have any issue with that dash and an aftermarket set of gauges. My only suggestion, is spend a little more for a good set of gauges. Classic Instruments make nice gauges, Nu-Vintage as well. Then there is Autometer for a more race feel.

Of the companies you mentioned the lowest starts at $683, most hover around $900, and some go as high as $1200. The set I mentioned from Speedway is $215. Others on Ebay are $375 or $380. From reading over the descriptions, I'm having difficulty seeing at what price point I'm actually getting good gauges versus bad gauges. What makes the cheaper sets not as good? I don't at all doubt what you are saying, but I would like a little insider knowledge here, so that I know why I'm spending more on gauges. What quality issues have you encountered?

Or are you going off of a gut feeling? If so, I respect that, and you're probably right. I'm just curious if you have any details to reinforce your suggestion.

[cornfedbill]

Of the companies you mentioned the lowest starts at $683, most hover around $900, and some go as high as $1200. The set I mentioned from Speedway is $215. Others on Ebay are $375 or $380. From reading over the descriptions, I'm having difficulty seeing at what price point I'm actually getting good gauges versus bad gauges. What makes the cheaper sets not as good? I don't at all doubt what you are saying, but I would like a little insider knowledge here, so that I know why I'm spending more on gauges. What quality issues have you encountered?

Or are you going off of a gut feeling? If so, I respect that, and you're probably right. I'm just curious if you have any details to reinforce your suggestion.

Price is sometimes an indicator of quality, but not always. Just do your research in as many locations as possible. I avoid Ebay unless I know what I am getting and where it is coming from. I've seen some real junk from off-shore on Ebay that looks good.

I have never been disappointed by anything I have purchased from Speedway. Their stuff is not fancy, but works well.

I have been looking at Speedhut GPS speedometers because I want something accurate for open road racing. They do make 4-in-1 gauges that may be convenient depending on what you like. I prefer individual gauges myself.

The gauges I have now are Stewart Warner Heavy Duty series. I love them. They look nice and work flawlessly. They are not the cheapest or the most expensive.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Just one thought from the other side of the fence since you mentioned driving the car on the street. I realize you may have already considered this but someone else reading may get something from it too.

Not suggesting you are, but I think some folks get a little carried away when building a car that will get street driven and raced. You mentioned the concern for the functionality of other components in the dash or interior. Unless you're trying to duplicate for example Mike DuSold's car and anticipating the results he gets, it's probably not a bad idea to weigh the benefits and the negatives of certain steps when planning a build.

For example, I used to be into building street/strip cars and at one point bought an all original 44,600 mile Nova from an old guy. Had some rust from being driven in winter on salty roads and one tear in the original upholstery, otherwise a fairly nice original car. After getting it home I promptly started turning it into a borderline street/race car. One step was gutting the interior all except the dash in the effort to save weight. About a year later and thinking about the bare race interior it struck me that I ruined a low mileage car in effort to save what, 50-70 lbs? That effort equated to maybe .05-.07 seconds in the 1/4 mile and an ugly interior with an obnoxiously noisy and uncomfortable street drive. I thought of how nice the interior could have been and how cool it would have been to be able to say, "that's all 46,000 mile original". With all the the same drivetrain and suspension parts the car would've been near unrecognizably slower than without an interior.

Since that experience I no longer feel such a need to try to blur the line between street and race car, especially in the pro touring world. I can't spend $100K + on the car so there's Always going to be plenty of cars faster than mine through the autocross. So is it worth it then to make sacrifices in an effort to try to be forever playing catch up to them? A race car is a race car, and it costs a mountain of coin to actually be competitive with other guys sporting full race cars. Setting up the suspension right and honing the driver mod skills will do 10 fold for dropping lap times than reducing interior weight anyway. A street car doesn't need to become a race car to have fun and enjoy it, right? Just sumpin' to consider.

Anyways, good luck and have fun with the car, I'm looking forward to seeing pics as it unfolds.

[74 Camaro]

Price is sometimes an indicator of quality, but not always. Just do your research in as many locations as possible. I avoid Ebay unless I know what I am getting and where it is coming from. I've seen some real junk from off-shore on Ebay that looks good.

I have never been disappointed by anything I have purchased from Speedway. Their stuff is not fancy, but works well.

I have been looking at Speedhut GPS speedometers because I want something accurate for open road racing. They do make 4-in-1 gauges that may be convenient depending on what you like. I prefer individual gauges myself.

The gauges I have now are Stewart Warner Heavy Duty series. I love them. They look nice and work flawlessly. They are not the cheapest or the most expensive.

Thanks for the tips! I will continue my research.

[74 Camaro]

Just one thought from the other side of the fence since you mentioned driving the car on the street. I realize you may have already considered this but someone else reading may get something from it too.

Not suggesting you are, but I think some folks get a little carried away when building a car that will get street driven and raced. You mentioned the concern for the functionality of other components in the dash or interior. Unless you're trying to duplicate for example Mike DuSold's car and anticipating the results he gets, it's probably not a bad idea to weigh the benefits and the negatives of certain steps when planning a build.

For example, I used to be into building street/strip cars and at one point bought an all original 44,600 mile Nova from an old guy. Had some rust from being driven in winter on salty roads and one tear in the original upholstery, otherwise a fairly nice original car. After getting it home I promptly started turning it into a borderline street/race car. One step was gutting the interior all except the dash in the effort to save weight. About a year later and thinking about the bare race interior it struck me that I ruined a low mileage car in effort to save what, 50-70 lbs? That effort equated to maybe .05-.07 seconds in the 1/4 mile and an ugly interior with an obnoxiously noisy and uncomfortable street drive. I thought of how nice the interior could have been and how cool it would have been to be able to say, "that's all 46,000 mile original". With all the the same drivetrain and suspension parts the car would've been near unrecognizably slower than without an interior.

Since that experience I no longer feel such a need to try to blur the line between street and race car, especially in the pro touring world. I can't spend $100K + on the car so there's Always going to be plenty of cars faster than mine through the autocross. So is it worth it then to make sacrifices in an effort to try to be forever playing catch up to them? A race car is a race car, and it costs a mountain of coin to actually be competitive with other guys sporting full race cars. Setting up the suspension right and honing the driver mod skills will do 10 fold for dropping lap times than reducing interior weight anyway. A street car doesn't need to become a race car to have fun and enjoy it, right? Just sumpin' to consider.

Anyways, good luck and have fun with the car, I'm looking forward to seeing pics as it unfolds.

That is a helpful perspective. I will keep what you said in mind as I ponder what direction to go with this. Of course, budget is a bigger factor than keeping weight down, but it so happens in this case that the two work well together. I do want to keep the appearance livable, and have decent functionality for the street. Some day I may try to work things like air conditioning back into the car. For now, I at least want it to look like a complete interior. The dash is the only part I don't have, so it makes sense to save some weight there with a fiberglass dash. However, I have no intention of gutting the interior. I may change my mind and go with an original style reproduction dash. The good thing is that I have time to think this over. I can finish up the suspension while I look over the dash and instrument options and come to a decision.

[GoodysGotaCuda]

Just one thought from the other side of the fence since you mentioned driving the car on the street. I realize you may have already considered this but someone else reading may get something from it too.

Not suggesting you are, but I think some folks get a little carried away when building a car that will get street driven and raced. You mentioned the concern for the functionality of other components in the dash or interior. Unless you're trying to duplicate for example Mike DuSold's car and anticipating the results he gets, it's probably not a bad idea to weigh the benefits and the negatives of certain steps when planning a build.

For example, I used to be into building street/strip cars and at one point bought an all original 44,600 mile Nova from an old guy. Had some rust from being driven in winter on salty roads and one tear in the original upholstery, otherwise a fairly nice original car. After getting it home I promptly started turning it into a borderline street/race car. One step was gutting the interior all except the dash in the effort to save weight. About a year later and thinking about the bare race interior it struck me that I ruined a low mileage car in effort to save what, 50-70 lbs? That effort equated to maybe .05-.07 seconds in the 1/4 mile and an ugly interior with an obnoxiously noisy and uncomfortable street drive. I thought of how nice the interior could have been and how cool it would have been to be able to say, "that's all 46,000 mile original". With all the the same drivetrain and suspension parts the car would've been near unrecognizably slower than without an interior.

Since that experience I no longer feel such a need to try to blur the line between street and race car, especially in the pro touring world. I can't spend $100K + on the car so there's Always going to be plenty of cars faster than mine through the autocross. So is it worth it then to make sacrifices in an effort to try to be forever playing catch up to them? A race car is a race car, and it costs a mountain of coin to actually be competitive with other guys sporting full race cars. Setting up the suspension right and honing the driver mod skills will do 10 fold for dropping lap times than reducing interior weight anyway. A street car doesn't need to become a race car to have fun and enjoy it, right? Just sumpin' to consider.

Anyways, good luck and have fun with the car, I'm looking forward to seeing pics as it unfolds.

Very valid points.

[74 Camaro]

Just one thought from the other side of the fence since you mentioned driving the car on the street. I realize you may have already considered this but someone else reading may get something from it too.

Not suggesting you are, but I think some folks get a little carried away when building a car that will get street driven and raced. You mentioned the concern for the functionality of other components in the dash or interior. Unless you're trying to duplicate for example Mike DuSold's car and anticipating the results he gets, it's probably not a bad idea to weigh the benefits and the negatives of certain steps when planning a build.

For example, I used to be into building street/strip cars and at one point bought an all original 44,600 mile Nova from an old guy. Had some rust from being driven in winter on salty roads and one tear in the original upholstery, otherwise a fairly nice original car. After getting it home I promptly started turning it into a borderline street/race car. One step was gutting the interior all except the dash in the effort to save weight. About a year later and thinking about the bare race interior it struck me that I ruined a low mileage car in effort to save what, 50-70 lbs? That effort equated to maybe .05-.07 seconds in the 1/4 mile and an ugly interior with an obnoxiously noisy and uncomfortable street drive. I thought of how nice the interior could have been and how cool it would have been to be able to say, "that's all 46,000 mile original". With all the the same drivetrain and suspension parts the car would've been near unrecognizably slower than without an interior.

Since that experience I no longer feel such a need to try to blur the line between street and race car, especially in the pro touring world. I can't spend $100K + on the car so there's Always going to be plenty of cars faster than mine through the autocross. So is it worth it then to make sacrifices in an effort to try to be forever playing catch up to them? A race car is a race car, and it costs a mountain of coin to actually be competitive with other guys sporting full race cars. Setting up the suspension right and honing the driver mod skills will do 10 fold for dropping lap times than reducing interior weight anyway. A street car doesn't need to become a race car to have fun and enjoy it, right? Just sumpin' to consider.

Anyways, good luck and have fun with the car, I'm looking forward to seeing pics as it unfolds.

I just came back and read this. This is a very good argument. The more I think about it, the more I find myself agreeing. The car may spend a good amount of time on the road, and a hard fiberglass dash may not be that nice to look at after a while. I do have most of my interior intact, and the faux-leather texture of a good reproduction dash will be much easier on the eye than a flat painted surface. The extra cost won't be too much either. I also don't think the weight difference will be all that big, and will probably make zero difference in my lap times. I haven't raced yet, and I doubt I will ever be that competitive to where a few pounds will matter that much. I suppose if weight bothers me too much I can always bring the Miata instead...

[74 Camaro]

I was randomly looking over my old threads and realized I never updated this one.
I decided to build my own dash out of aluminum. I also did buy a cheap set of black-face gauges from Speedway Motors, which I have yet to install. The dash has a removable panel to make that easier. $50 for the aluminum and $215 for the gauges. Unfortunately, I will not be home till July of next year, but I will re-resurrect this thread once the gauges are in.