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    Results 1 to 20 of 20
    1. #1
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      No. Nevada
      Posts
      80

      Deleting the distributor for crank fire SBC?

      Looks like I've finally found an inexpensive MS3 control and timing wheel to complete my partial Edelbrock EFI system.
      Recently taken off the sellers SBC 350 and worked fine.
      I will want to eliminate the distributor but will also still need to drive the oil pump.
      This seems like a question that should have already been answered many times but my searches are not getting me anywhere useful.



      Going into my flatbed support/tow truck as I want better performance at high altitude than a carb can give me.
      Truck runs great at low altitude but stinks going over the passes, runs fair at my home elevation of 4700'.
      With this done a low boost supercharger becomes more practical idea down the road.
      At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!


    2. #2
      Join Date
      May 2011
      Location
      Chippewa Falls, WI
      Posts
      289
      Country Flag: United States
      Vortec 350 distributor, and EFI connection has a alum cap for it. You can use the cam signal off the pickup on the distributor, and then run the crank signal off the crank wheel. I don't know of any other way to drive the oil pump without some type of distributor in there.
      Justin N.

      1966 Chevelle
      1992 GMC Typhoon
      1989 Jeep Wrangler CJ 6.0 Twin Turbo
      1981 Jeep CJ7

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Mar 2005
      Location
      Loganville, GA
      Posts
      937
      Country Flag: United States
      The 92-97 LT1 engines had an oil pump drive that looks like the bottom part of a regular distributor. It may be possible to adapt it. You can see it here on this page, very bottom right image: http://www.ellweinengines.com/ESE31/ESE31.htm
      2018 Cruze LT Hatchback
      2003 Suburban 2500 8.1L
      1975 MGB Roadster
      2003 GSX750F Katana

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      No. Nevada
      Posts
      80
      Looked up the LT1 drive.
      Seems some folk have problems with them and a hassle to mount in my Gen 1 block.

      I think I'm going to cut down an old distributor body and shaft, then make an aluminum cover for the stub.

      Also on-line I see pics of a 350 Vortec "Distributor" that does not have a regular cap, just a cover and an output to a cam sensor?
      Might be handy to have a specific year and model that those came in to see if one could be found on the cheap.
      Not having good luck with a web search.
      At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!

    5. #5
      Join Date
      May 2011
      Location
      Chippewa Falls, WI
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      289
      Country Flag: United States
      Justin N.

      1966 Chevelle
      1992 GMC Typhoon
      1989 Jeep Wrangler CJ 6.0 Twin Turbo
      1981 Jeep CJ7

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Jan 2008
      Posts
      67
      Country Flag: United States

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      No. Nevada
      Posts
      80
      I guess that once the MS3 gets here I will be able to see if a cam sensor makes sense or is not really needed.
      I do appreciate the suggestions, searching for distributor delete and similar was getting me nowhere.
      At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Sep 2014
      Posts
      130
      Country Flag: United States
      You will need a cam sensor to run sequential spark and or timed injection.

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Location
      Fredericksburg, VA.
      Posts
      3,125
      Country Flag: United States
      This seems like a lot of work to me. If you are looking for performance over a range of altitudes, wouldn't it just be simpler to install one of the many new aftermarket throttle body EFI units? I installed the MSD Atomic TB EFI and it works good going from a low altitude to a high altitude. The New FITech throttle body units can be purchased for less than $1,000. All of these EFI systems monitor and adjust the AFR as altitude changes. If you are worried about spark scatter caused by oil pump vibration when using a conventional distributor, Melling has released their "Sharktooth" series of oil pumps which use helical cut gears rather than straight cut teeth which dramatically reduces the oil pump vibration level.
      Steve Hayes
      "Dust Off"
      68 Camaro

      Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you!
      "Jeremy Clarkson"

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Aug 2007
      Location
      Jonesboro, Arkansas
      Posts
      2,490
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by TheJDMan View Post
      This seems like a lot of work to me. If you are looking for performance over a range of altitudes, wouldn't it just be simpler to install one of the many new aftermarket throttle body EFI units? I installed the MSD Atomic TB EFI and it works good going from a low altitude to a high altitude. The New FITech throttle body units can be purchased for less than $1,000. All of these EFI systems monitor and adjust the AFR as altitude changes. If you are worried about spark scatter caused by oil pump vibration when using a conventional distributor, Melling has released their "Sharktooth" series of oil pumps which use helical cut gears rather than straight cut teeth which dramatically reduces the oil pump vibration level.
      Hey Steve,
      I think you answered my question on the other thread, lol

      Carl Wilson
      1968 Camaro - T-56 6 speed - 383 Stroker, 2014 Mustang GT seats. FiTech EFI, Tanks Inc. Tank with Deutschwerks fuel pump.

    11. #11
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      Jun 2010
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      Seems like your ready for a modern engine
      1970 Camaro/DSE build


      Are you driver enough? Maybe....come on blue!
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...71#post1147371

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Nov 2008
      Location
      Lawrenceburg, TN
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    13. #13
      Join Date
      May 2015
      Location
      Island Lake, IL
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      Quote Originally Posted by badazz81z28 View Post
      Seems like your ready for a modern engine
      What's considered modern about newer style pushrod v8's?

      High horsepower builds end up using forward facing cam-mounted distributors and 4 magnet crank triggers. Dart LS Next engine blocks end up using traditional (not standard ls) style main caps for the crankshaft. GM uses Holley HP EFI for the Chevy COPO Camaro. 2016 Mustang Cobra Jet uses a GM TH400 based transmission.

    14. #14
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      Modern engines are not using distributors. They are using computers to fire off coils based on the crank trigger. Just because you can buy and use "newer" styles of the old technology doesn't really make it modern....it's still old technology. Modern is computer controlled sensor monitored.

      I was referring to an LS engine. Sound like that's exactly what he's looking for.
      1970 Camaro/DSE build


      Are you driver enough? Maybe....come on blue!
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...71#post1147371

    15. #15
      Join Date
      May 2015
      Location
      Island Lake, IL
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      800
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      Quote Originally Posted by badazz81z28 View Post
      Modern engines are not using distributors. They are using computers to fire off coils based on the crank trigger. Just because you can buy and use "newer" styles of the old technology doesn't really make it modern. Modern is computer controlled sensor monitored.

      I was referring to an LS engine. Sound like that's exactly what he's looking for.
      You totally missed the point but for your sake I will agree that newer engines use computers.

    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by F-Body International View Post
      You totally missed the point but for your sake I will agree that newer engines use computers.


      No I didn't miss the point you were trying to be a smart a$$. I get you were taking a stab that an LS is still a push rod engine, but how is that relevant? Guy doesn't want a distributer and trying to make it like a modern production engine...so it sounds like its a better idea to get an LS then try to make a SBC operate like an LS.
      1970 Camaro/DSE build


      Are you driver enough? Maybe....come on blue!
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...71#post1147371

    17. #17
      Join Date
      May 2015
      Location
      Island Lake, IL
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      Quote Originally Posted by badazz81z28 View Post
      No I didn't miss the point you were trying to be a smart a$$. I get you were taking a stab that an LS is still a push rod engine, but how is that relevant? Guy doesn't want a distributer and trying to make it like a modern production engine...so it sounds like its a better idea to get an LS then try to make a SBC operate like an LS.
      First off, you're the one sweeping into an SBC thread saying how the LS engine is better. Distributors become cam sensors (like an LS has) when converting distributor based engines to sequential efi. Wasted spark engines which fire on both the compression and exhaust stroke don't need distributors but they do need and oil pump drive. A better idea for me would be to use the architecture your car was designed for and make it better. An LS engine isn't that much lighter than a small block Chevy. Both LS and SBC can be had in aluminum block form. One of the strongest LS engine blocks (Dart LS Next) even uses traditional style 4 bolt main caps like we find in SBC and BBC engines. I don't hate LS engines. They're badass but to sweep in with "newer=better" comments like that is aggravating for me. Like I mentioned earlier, both cases are pushrod 2 valve v8 engines.

    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by F-Body International View Post
      First off, you're the one sweeping into an SBC thread saying how the LS engine is better. Distributors become cam sensors (like an LS has) when converting distributor based engines to sequential efi. Wasted spark engines which fire on both the compression and exhaust stroke don't need distributors but they do need and oil pump drive. A better idea for me would be to use the architecture your car was designed for and make it better. An LS engine isn't that much lighter than a small block Chevy. Both LS and SBC can be had in aluminum block form. One of the strongest LS engine blocks (Dart LS Next) even uses traditional style 4 bolt main caps like we find in SBC and BBC engines. I don't hate LS engines. They're badass but to sweep in with "newer=better" comments like that is aggravating for me. Like I mentioned earlier, both cases are pushrod 2 valve v8 engines.

      I didn't say one was better. I pointed out what he was looking for sounds like a modern FI engine.
      1970 Camaro/DSE build


      Are you driver enough? Maybe....come on blue!
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...71#post1147371

    19. #19
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      No. Nevada
      Posts
      80
      Well it seems the seller misplaced the MS3 so I only got the crank trigger and some other small parts.
      I have no desire for an LS, just want to improve performance of the 350 I have using an incomplete Edelbrock FI unit I got cheap.
      Back-burner at the moment as it seems I need to replace my CNC mill.
      At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!

    20. #20
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      No. Nevada
      Posts
      80
      Wow, time sure flies when you are not having fun.
      Been busy with "Life" issues, little things like closing a business, moving, and having to put up a new workshop.
      Finally getting back to actually working on cars again.
      The MS3/distributorless question has moved to a more interesting build than my truck.
      The MS3 unit itself eventually showed up, after I sold the injection system I was going to use it with.

      Now looking to use it for ignition only on my 327 '68 El Camino build.
      Induction is 4x 44IDF Webers.
      Cam is probably just a bit too much to be practical so should be just enough fun to get me arrested.
      I need to search this site again for clues regards coils.
      As I recall EDIS packs should work well.
      At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!



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