Who's still running a SBC ?

[Decline]

That black accented motor looks sweet! Mike jones makes awesome cams from what I've read on yellow bullet. I almost just bought one but since I'm on a budget I had to settle for a lunati voodoo roller.
Needed that money for all the other roller swap parts(of which there are many)



Here's why SBCs rock.. I found some barely used aluminum Gm fastburn heads and matching vortec intake on CL for cheap. After my hyd roller swap I should be around 425-450 at the crank for about $2000. It would have been less if the heads didn't need stupid self aligning rockers.
2ndly, I'm not super mechanically inclined. I just watch YouTube videos and read the Internet and since these motors are so simple and well researched I can do all my own work.

My car gets 17-18 hwy and 14-15 around town with a 650q jet and a th350 auto. It's a 9.5:1 355ci with 3.25 rear gears. Would I like an LS? Of course, but is it necessary? Not really. Plus the money I saved not doing a swap can go towards a T56 magnum which is what my car really needs!

Being a young buck(34), I feel the pull towards the LSswap like Luke to the dark side. But I have to respect the original. I've nearly killed my SBC multiple times due to inexperience and stupidity. But it just takes the lickin and keeps on Tickin. How can I not love that? My good friend has rebuilt his 1jz single turbo twice in the same timespan..lol not a fair comparison cuz that motor is in a drift car and gets beat on pretty hard. You see my point tho. The more I've gotten into my old school small block, the more I learned to love and respect it.
One caveat withstanding, if the son of a B leaks after I replace all these gaskets and fresh parts it's days are friggen numbered!

[nokones]

What's a SBC lol

It is whatever you can punch out of a SBC. Now, I am curious, how far has anyone punch out a SBC either an all aluminum Dart/Bill Mitchell/Brodix, etc. or a cast iron OEM block?

[Zspoiler]

I run a 364 cubic inch supercharged 500 HP small block Chevrolet in m y 1979 Z-28 RS Camaro Pro-touring car.Ans I also run a 290 HP small block Chevrolet crate engine in my 1981 El Camino SS as my daily driver. It nice having cars that have parts that interchange.

[ULTM8Z]

I've been EFI since 1996 on my car when I installed the TPI. Swapped to ZZ4 in 2000 and have changed the heads and cam, probably making ~400 hp. I'm also getting 27 mpg on the highway. This is all on 30 year old EFI technology and essentially 50 year old engine technology. Not to mention Mrs. ULTM8Z thinks I'm already off my rocker for wanting more power than I already have!

My next engine upgrade in the (hopefully near future) is going to be a 454 sbc with around 525-550 hp.

So why am I sticking with the sbc rather than going LS?

1.) The car is already set up for the EFI system I already have and the 454 will swap right in under it without having to mod the car. I also know the TPI ECM fairly well, so re-tuning for the 454 should be a snap.

2.) I'll probably still get 25 mpg out of it after re-tuning which is still phenomenal for a nearly 50 year old car.

3.) I simply don't want any more than 550 hp (which is already ridiculous for how I'll be driving the car... literally 100% street/highway driven.... and I don't race people on the street... but it's cool having fun with it on my own from time to time... and I've dreamed about an engine like that for a LONG time).

Yeah, I know the LS engines can make more power w/o sacrificing driveability (but again, I just don't want/need any more power).

So bottom line... if I was building from scratch, I'd probably go LS. But for my circumstances it makes sense to keep with the sbc.

[ULTM8Z]

I'm using the TPIS Mini Ram with the 1250 CFM Monoblade Throttlebody on my all aluminum SBC 427 CI. The throttlebody and mini ram setup will handle over 600 HP with no problem.

Me too on the Miniram set up. Awesome manifold....

What cam and heads are you running and what are your power numbers?

[ULTM8Z]

I really feel like your best move would be to keep your existing SBC and install some form of an OD transmission either manual or auto. I think an OD trans swap offers you a greater potential for improved drivability than an LS engine swap.

Agreed. Back in 1992, I swapped to a TH700R4 from my TH350. Was running 3.42's and HATED driving on the freeway.

Mind you I still had a carburetor at that time, but after putting the 700 with lock up converter, it was such pleasure to drive on the freeway (particularly since I started commuting 38 miles to college each way). I also immediately bumped by fuel economy up to 21 mpg.

Yes, for driveability, the transmission could be your biggest bang for the buck. Well built TH700's can be had pretty inexpensively these days. If you're ambitious, you can even go 4L80E and take advantage of the tunability that comes with a fully electronic transmission. Plus, even a mildly built 4L80E would be able to handle a future 500hp engine (so you'd be preparing for the future in that case).

[F-Body International]

Good thread...I appreciate SBC, BOP and other traditional engines more after seeing all the LS swap stuff these days.

[kimosabi]

I can understand why people modernize their cars. LS with a direct port sequential EFI has much better fuel and timing control. I noticed a couple of knock sensor mounts on the back of the Dart SHP block and that kinda sealed the deal on my EFI thoughts in the future. If I'm not 100% happy with the Qjet, sequential EFI is next. I don't care much for the glorified carburettors though so a true EFI for me is probably another $3-4.000...

Will make a soild effort on the Qjet, have a dual Daytona Sensors wideband on the short list and also vacuum gauge.

[SIK02SS]

My 67 Camaro build finished in 2006. When I bought the car it had a new built SBC motor (that I had to rebuild- great parts but the guy couldn't build a motor) with gear drive and 650 double pumper. Has a great power band up to 6500 and has been reliable. Mated to a TKO600 I've gotten 28mpg on long cruises or I can watch the fuel gauge go to E around town. I built the car around a resto-mod restoration, lots of the original look, feel and sound- but with updated motor, braking, suspension and overall performance/reliability.



As I go through the 66 LeMans restoration it will be a modern high performance build with a modern engine.

[FJ4JAKE]

I have a Dart SHP 400 in my 67 Camaro (525ish HP). The car has a Magnum T56. I recently added a Holley Terminator system too... Like others have stated, the addition of the modern 6spd makes all the difference that people "feel" when they do an LS swap. Would you really know which engine was under the hood if you just hopped in a strange car and it ran strong? I have been impressed with the increased drive-ability once I got my Terminator dialed in. Not as pretty as my 950cfm carb but the car just purrs now... and actually makes me want more cam..
Given the choice.. I would take a SBC/T56 any day vs a LS/4spd... Besides... beating an LS with a SBC is WAY more fun!

[kimosabi]

Yeah I don't feel the need to run an LS after firing up and do some initial tunes. Everything looked good. Should make just shy of 500 horse. Cam is a hyd roller 232/232 .540/.529ex on a 108LSA installed at 106. 10.7:1 compression. Should make for a snappy 400. Can't wait to get it in the car!

[nokones]

Me too on the Miniram set up. Awesome manifold....

What cam and heads are you running and what are your power numbers?

Sorry for the waaaay late reply.

I am running a Comp Cam with a special Lingenfelter custom grind and AFR 245 heads. 646 horsepower at 6600 and 570 torque at (I can't remember now and I don't have my fingers on the sheets at the moment).

[Randy67]

Very nice setup, Kenny. Not helping my desire to pickup and hotrod a C4 either.

[Zspoiler]

i would go on what you are more comfortable with .Both my cars have small block Chevys in them. My 1979 Z-28 RS Camaro has a 500 HP 377 cubic inch Supercharged small block,Ans my 1981 El Camino SS has a 290 HP 350 crate engine in it. Of which is my daily driver . Both are pro-touring cars. Thats what I grew up with and are easy to hop*up as well.

[nokones]

The LS definitely has its place in the Pro-Touring world and so do the SBCs. In my opinion, the LS engine will not look right in a real hot rod such as a deuce coupe, one of the Tri 5s, or a bucket "T" nor would a SBC look right in a late model muscle car. Both engines are very reliable and can be massaged to produce the power you need for your ride. That is what makes hot rodding fun, you get to do what you want and enjoy.

[camuchi]

I will have a 408 w/ performer rpm heads / comp roller cam etc
and a Muncie 4spd m21 with upgrades from autogear manufacturing/oversize bearings/cast iron mid plate /hd synchros
The ls stuff is awesome but on a budget you can't beat the SBC for $/power imo
Would love to have an od translation but dad and I swapped our car from a turbo 400 to 4 speed
Back around 1979 ( at dads suggestion) so for finally getting it ready to come back on the road there was no choice but the Muncie. I hope to have it on the road by summer.

[H2Ogbodies]

We are building a 72 Vega with an 80's vintage TransAm Series 350 aluminum GM block with a TPI top end-kind of a different animal but the owner wants to keep it quasi-80's retro.

[HandOverFist]

Hot 327 in a '67 El Camino...it'll do.

[SPLATT71MC]

I really want to go to a LS but the fact that I have everything already to swap in a hotter SBC without any headaches or surprises is steering me towards going with a 383 stroker or even going to a 400 based SBC.

[camuchi]

Getting ready to put my 406/M21 in this week
I hope!