88-98 C1500 Brake options?

[esteen2]

I have a 89 c1500 truck and I'm not having much luck finding any brake upgrades for the front. I currently have Stoptech slotted/cryogenic rotors and EBC yellow pads. I also have a new body style master cylinder on the truck. It seems 88-98 is a dead spot for brakes/suspension upgrades.

['85 LSX c10]

Wilwood has a replacement dual piston caliper for your truck itd the D52 caliper and its about $350 a pair

[esteen2]

Thanks, but the D52 caliper only works on truck without heavy duty brakes. Which my truck has. There is a big front brake kit out there, but it is close to $3000.

[bovey]

Thanks, but the D52 caliper only works on truck without heavy duty brakes. Which my truck has. There is a big front brake kit out there, but it is close to $3000.

I've had the had the braking force numbers run on D52s with stock 12" rotors, if your set-up is bigger than that - I doubt you need more.

What are trying to achieve anyway?

[esteen2]

I guess I'm just looking for a better feel from the brakes, I have been reading through your thread. I'm thinking the best thing I could do is get the drums off the back and possibly changing to better shocks could help.

[bovey]

I guess I'm just looking for a better feel from the brakes, I have been reading through your thread. I'm thinking the best thing I could do is get the drums off the back and possibly changing to better shocks could help.

For the record, I'm not overly familiar with your era of truck, but I do know that GM uses the same parts for a long time. Especially, when it comes to trucks.

As for your situation, feel is a personal thing. And you can control feel with the brakes (obviously), but you can also change the feel with pads, petal ratio, tire selection and shocks. Shocks did a lot for my truck and I only have a set of single adjustable Ride Techs with custom curves from Ron Sutton.

If you are planning on the truck being a street driver than you can get away with talking to some suppliers and adjusting some parts. If you want the brakes to really perform, I suggest you speak to someone (like Ron or their are others) and plan it out. THAT and maybe the 'feel' you want is not the right thing. Sorry for the mind game, but if there is one thing I have learned is what 'feels' right or fast, is not always right or fast.

Simply put, do some reading and check out the other builds of guys with trucks like yours.

On the subject of brakes, what I achieved with a set of brake pads, a new M/C, adjusting the petal ratio, some homemade cooling ducts and a set of shocks was more effective and a fraction of the cost of a set of big brakes.

[Shwa Kid]

For the record, I'm not overly familiar with your era of truck, but I do know that GM uses the same parts for a long time. Especially, when it comes to trucks.

These trucks were the exception to GM's never ending ability to re-use parts. What they did with these trucks was (from my understanding) basically machined a groove into the pistons on the front calipers which would suck the piston back into the caliper when the brakes weren't applied. The intention of this was to reduce drag on the front brakes but it also meant there was extra slack to take up every time the brakes were applied. To help with this, they developed a multi-stage master cylinder which was supposed to take up all the slack first when the pedal was depressed, then give a more normal brake feel once they engage. I hope I summarized that well, I read it a few months ago here. (Pat @Centric's posts starting on page 5)

I've found that the self adjusters don't work well on these trucks and that adjusting the rear brakes can make a big improvement on pedal feel.

Now back to GM interchanability....

When I was going over my brakes I made this chart of stock components (I like using off the shelf parts, should something brake I don't need to wait for custom or special order stuff). The first row is for 1988-89 only, after that they went to a 1.25" width rotor (and a different spindle). The 2000 silverado is included as swapping over the master cylinder seems to be a popular mod (you need a fitting to get the brake lines to thread)

F Ratio and R Ratio are the ratio of master cylinder piston diameter to caliper/wheel cylinder piston diameter, using to gauge mechanical advantage (and brake feel), this is valuable assuming you're not messing with your pedal ratio.
Also worth noting that there are at least two different axle flanges available and you can't bolt a C1500 backing plate to a C1500 Suburban axle housing (ask me how I know...)

	Master Cylinder (mm)			Front Brake (in)					Rear Brake (in)
Vehicle	Front Bore	Rear Bore	Type	Thickness	Diameter	Bore	Area	F Ratio	Type	Diameter	Bore	Area	R Ratio
1989 C1500	24.4	36	Disc	1	11.62	2.5	19.635	0.102	Drum	10	1.125	7.95	0.0625
C2500 7200GVWR	28.6	40	Disc	1.125	11.61	2.96	27.525	0.103	Drum	11	1	6.283	.050
C2500 8600 GVWR (same as 3500 LD)	31.75	31.75	Disc	1.25	12.49	3.16	31.370	0.099	Drum	13	1.063	7.093	0.067
C1500 Suburban	28.6	40	Disc	1.25	11.61	2.96	27.525	.103	Drum	11	1	6.283	.0500
2000 C1500	34	34	Disc	1.1	11.96	2	25.133	.0588	Disc	12.8	2.13	14.253	0.125

The setup I ended up going with is the 8600 GVWR master cylinder and front calipers with the 7600 GVWR pads (caliper bolts up, clip on inner brake pad needs to be tweaked), C1500 brake rotors, and C1500 Suburban rear brakes (11" drums). I chose this combo because it would work with stock front rotors and the ratios work out to be similar to stock (meaning similar brake feel) but bigger components and more stopping power.

This is a 100% street truck which has bigger stickier tires and more power, hence why I wanted it to stop better. It does not see track time (due to lack of local tracks).

There's some guys with 4x4's that are running the GMT800 front spindles which allows them to run GMT900 front brakes (13" rotors if I recall). I haven't seen it done on a 2WD, but I'm trying to figure out if it can be done. The ball joints have a different taper on the GMT800 and the lower points down instead of upwards. I think it may be able to be bolted up using a 6124 upper ball joint and a 6541 lower ball joint but haven't even got so far as measuring if those ball joints will fit in the GMT400 control arms, let alone what that does to the suspension geometry (and ride height).

Hope this helps clarify a few things/points you in the right direction.

[nastyn8]

You can change your spindle to the heavy duty rotor and upgrade to the D52 caliper as an option. The difference is in the rotor thickness

[Shwa Kid]

You can change your spindle to the heavy duty rotor and upgrade to the D52 caliper as an option. The difference is in the rotor thickness

Probably the most cost effective method. For some reason I was under the impression those calipers cost much more than mentioned above.

[Skip Fix]

Calipers on my '97 C1500 look nothing like D52s.

I tried the larger 3/4 ton calipers on mine but pedal was poorer, I did get a Stainless Steel Brakes MC that seemed to help the rear drums actually do some work. The mid late 90s when they went to 4 wheel ABS the ABS solenoids give a really crappy feel unless you engage the ABS then great feel for the day. I know some guys routing around the ABS to get a better feel.

[Tpichevy]

I have a 89 c1500 truck and I'm not having much luck finding any brake upgrades for the front. I currently have Stoptech slotted/cryogenic rotors and EBC yellow pads. I also have a new body style master cylinder on the truck. It seems 88-98 is a dead spot for brakes/suspension upgrades.

Anyone find out more about this? I have a 1992 c1500 and looking for upgraded stopping power. I have herd for guys running c2500 calipers on the c1500 but not sure what part numbers I need to get the right ones that will work.... Or better help how do I know if the wilwood d52s will work on the front of my truck with some new drilled and slotted rotors? Do I need a bigger MC if I run the wilwood? What about hydroboost setups on our trucks....I see guys do this also but again I'm trying to track down exactly what I need to get and not having the best luck yet.

[LT1C1500]

Anyone find out more about this? I have a 1992 c1500 and looking for upgraded stopping power. I have herd for guys running c2500 calipers on the c1500 but not sure what part numbers I need to get the right ones that will work.... Or better help how do I know if the wilwood d52s will work on the front of my truck with some new drilled and slotted rotors? Do I need a bigger MC if I run the wilwood? What about hydroboost setups on our trucks....I see guys do this also but again I'm trying to track down exactly what I need to get and not having the best luck yet.

Digging this thread back from the past. I was looking for the same info and noticed your screen name. Is that you from the OBS fsc days? If so it's djlunchbox. XD. Long time no see! Let me know if you've done any brake upgrades yet.

[realsquash]

I'm working on this problem on my 97 2wd currently. The rear was easy, a disk brake swap and I used the 14" rotor from Summit's big brake kit, but I had to make my own caliper mounts. I used CTS-V 4-piston Brembo calipers.

On the front, that's a different story. The best solution for the front would be for someone to come up with a new spindle design that doesn't have the caliper mounts cast into the spindle. On top of that they would need to provide a 5 and 6-lug hub. Or they could use the truck unit bearings instead of a spindle/hub. You could use GMT800 SUV rotors and calipers (13" IIRC, dual piston calipers). It would be most excellent if this magic knuckle also had a bolt-on steering arm with a short throw available for people who want to do a rack and pinion swap. A short enough end-take-off rack to fit these trucks comes from an old Porsche, or possibly a C4 can be made to work, but the short racks have less travel. The stock drag link is something like 22" center-to-center. A center-take-off rack from an Intrepid would also be an option, lots of travel and you can put the pivots anywhere you want. You could even use just long tierods and bump steer would still be very minimal, but not gone.

On my truck I have been trying to decide the next steps. I have an aluminum 2015 Silverado knuckle/unit bearing and I am going to make my own control arms (nothing good on the market here). The problem is the KPI/SAI is about 11 degrees on this knuckle. With the wide track and wide tires (high backspacing) I plan on running you end up with about 1/2" of negative scrub radius, and I think I would have to run a large amount of caster (which also puts the tie rod up into the frame a bit). So I'm going over my options again to see what would work out the best, literally right now. To further complicate things I am trying to run 6 on 5.5 wheels on the truck.

There is a gaping hole in the market for the 88-98 trucks. Everything on the market seems to be, well, "sub-optimal" to put it kindly.

[bovey]

I'm working on this problem on my 97 2wd currently. The rear was easy, a disk brake swap and I used the 14" rotor from Summit's big brake kit, but I had to make my own caliper mounts. I used CTS-V 4-piston Brembo calipers.

On the front, that's a different story. The best solution for the front would be for someone to come up with a new spindle design that doesn't have the caliper mounts cast into the spindle. On top of that they would need to provide a 5 and 6-lug hub. Or they could use the truck unit bearings instead of a spindle/hub. You could use GMT800 SUV rotors and calipers (13" IIRC, dual piston calipers). It would be most excellent if this magic knuckle also had a bolt-on steering arm with a short throw available for people who want to do a rack and pinion swap. A short enough end-take-off rack to fit these trucks comes from an old Porsche, or possibly a C4 can be made to work, but the short racks have less travel. The stock drag link is something like 22" center-to-center. A center-take-off rack from an Intrepid would also be an option, lots of travel and you can put the pivots anywhere you want. You could even use just long tierods and bump steer would still be very minimal, but not gone.

On my truck I have been trying to decide the next steps. I have an aluminum 2015 Silverado knuckle/unit bearing and I am going to make my own control arms (nothing good on the market here). The problem is the KPI/SAI is about 11 degrees on this knuckle. With the wide track and wide tires (high backspacing) I plan on running you end up with about 1/2" of negative scrub radius, and I think I would have to run a large amount of caster (which also puts the tie rod up into the frame a bit). So I'm going over my options again to see what would work out the best, literally right now. To further complicate things I am trying to run 6 on 5.5 wheels on the truck.

There is a gaping hole in the market for the 88-98 trucks. Everything on the market seems to be, well, "sub-optimal" to put it kindly.

Just have a set of spindles made. Ron Sutton made me a pair. If you understand the geometry you need, you can call a company like Coleman and they'll make you a set. The cost is very reasonable for the high level of part you get. FYI - I'm putting a custom race spindle on factory A-arms.

[realsquash]

Just have a set of spindles made. Ron Sutton made me a pair. If you understand the geometry you need, you can call a company like Coleman and they'll make you a set. The cost is very reasonable for the high level of part you get. FYI - I'm putting a custom race spindle on factory A-arms.

I can design and machine pretty much whatever I need, but I try to avoid it as much as I can. I think in this case you're right though.

What are you doing for a hub/rotor? I need the 6-lug stuff and I haven't seen a hub with that pattern around. I guess you could turn the rotor off of one of the integral types?

[bovey]

What are you doing for a hub/rotor? I need the 6-lug stuff and I haven't seen a hub with that pattern around. I guess you could turn the rotor off of one of the integral types?

I'm using the hub that is designed for the spindles I had made. But yes, in theory you could turn the rotor off - however, you'll need to make sure the bearings all get along. Given your talents, you could buy the spindle and make the hub, since you can just press in the races and for the bearings that will work with the rotors. BUT, I assume you can get a GM metric race spindle that the bearings would match the 6 bolt hub - but check. I'm no pro.

[realsquash]

I'm using the hub that is designed for the spindles I had made. But yes, in theory you could turn the rotor off - however, you'll need to make sure the bearings all get along. Given your talents, you could buy the spindle and make the hub, since you can just press in the races and for the bearings that will work with the rotors. BUT, I assume you can get a GM metric race spindle that the bearings would match the 6 bolt hub - but check. I'm no pro.

I think I'll end up making a new spindle, well really just a knuckle. I like the idea of using a unit bearing with the ABS stuff built in, and it's beefy. It's off to Solidworks I go, hiiii ho.

[bovey]

I think I'll end up making a new spindle, well really just a knuckle. I like the idea of using a unit bearing with the ABS stuff built in, and it's beefy. It's off to Solidworks I go, hiiii ho.

One other option. I'm fairly certain that when I bought a set of backing plates for my '71, they would fit up to '92. Have you looked at changing the ball joint to accept an earlier spindle? GM doesn't tend to change things much. QA1 has a great ball joint cross reference chart that you could find your moog part # and see what-is-what. Just an idea.

[realsquash]

One other option. I'm fairly certain that when I bought a set of backing plates for my '71, they would fit up to '92. Have you looked at changing the ball joint to accept an earlier spindle? GM doesn't tend to change things much. QA1 has a great ball joint cross reference chart that you could find your moog part # and see what-is-what. Just an idea.

My problems run deeper than that... I am trying to set up the suspension for track/autocross type work, but also daily it thousands of miles when there's no snow. Most of the control arms that are available for the truck are too much of a compromise geometry wise and are poorly made.

I am going to make my own lower control arm and probably retrofit an upper from something else. None of those older spindles seem to have the right steering arm geometry for this project either, but I haven't seen them all. I've been farting around with this all summer so I need to make a decision. I can make the arms and knuckles (CNC'd al), so I might as well just get to it. Analysis paralysis has set in.

[esteen2]

Just an update. I ended up converting the rear to discs and that helped me out a lot. I used a Little Shop MFG kit. They also now make a bolt on 14" and 16" front rotor setup for the 88-98 c1500 trucks, both with 6 piston calipers. They price is still high, but cheaper than the previous options. I'm saving up for the 14" set up, and some new wheels since my current 17's won't clear.