'Streamline' 1968 camaro project

[slimjim]

Yes. The upper corners are spot welded on. Food for thought...I really understand your concerns for carpet and appearance, but would offer this advice. When thinking about appearance, try and remember that interior components will have to be placed somewhat proportionally to 5th gen locations. This is most obvious for correct 5th gen appearance, but what is not so obvious is component functionality. For example, the 5th gen seats are much wider than the 1st gen. they are also significantly taller, critically at a the base. This causes two issues. 1. If the 5th gen seats are just mounted to the original (unmodified) seat pans, in between and unmodified tunnel or inner rocker (path of least resistance), most drivers of average height will have their heads in the ceiling and knees hitting the steering wheel...2. The seats will be so close together in the center, the console itself will be wedged in there (really tight) interfering and deforming the seats upper and lower side bolsters. appearance wise this may be acceptable, but functionally it will put significant stress on the motors and jack screws of the seats, and eventually break the cheap ass tabs holding on the console side covers (we broke just mocking that scenerio, just operating with nobody in the seat).
"On your hope to narrow tunnel towards the back" We carried the 5th gen tunnel width the full length of the upper corner braces, and tapered it down to 1st gen width beyond the braces. Reasons for this were many, e-brake handle and cable components underneath, upper module mounting (we are using all 5th modules), and "FUNCTIONALLY" for the size of the transmission tail housing/shaft flange which requires a CV type driveshaft (much larger than traditional yoke components..and will be complicated more with 6l80 girth). We may eventually convert to A6 trans, so we planned ahead. Most using A6 have ground clearance concerns with the pan..... so as much as you can get it into the tunnel, the better off you will be. Also when installing driveshaft, shifter components, exhaust, etc..You will be happy you went that far. Our projects have the benefit of the proper interior for that tunnel height, so i would recommend looking at it that way. We have actually dropped 5th gen molded carpet in there (with all padding removed) and it didn't fit bad at all. Based on rough measurements we have done in critical areas, an OEM 1st gen carpet will also work if sliced down the middle leaving the center of the tunnel under the console bare. Last resort is let interior guy sweat over it (which will probably be us anyway..LOL). Time will tell. PM me when you get back in town, and i'll send my number and we can talk more in depth about all the approaches we have already explored, and why they were implemented or dismissed. might save you some time and money, which is why i created the build thread in the first place...to save others time and money of the known/unknown..LOL

Wow, thanks for the detailed reply. It certainly does make me rethink things a little, and at the end of the day I need to remember the entire purpose behind my build being functionality and modern comfort..(hence streamline). I certainly am not going to be in all out autocross wars, or show'n'shine comps, though i'll give them a run for their money, but I want more than anything, to be able to drive to the next city, or up through the mountain ranges... and I certainly don't want my head hitting the roof(I'm 6'1") or my elbow rubbing on the console the entire time.
This is how i chose the 2 big options for my car.
1. to have great, and more importantly, proven suspension geometries, hence the speedtech subframe and torque-arm with a 9" rear-end
2. the interior, braking and driveline from a 5th gen, all mated together to work like a modern Camaro does.

Regarding the carpet, I had considered both options, but was leaning more towards the latter, of slicing 1st gen carpet down the middle and concealing it, but again, like you said, its a future problem that isn't too difficult to resolve.
I'll certainly give you a call when I'm back in town as I plan to knock this over and get my car out of the shop so I can work on it myself for a while.

[67SSDan]

Wait, the 5th gen seats will fit? I thought I had read that they were too wide and tall?

[Cryptonomad]

They will with significant mods. Notice rockers and seat pan..

[drc9805]

Awesome build... I love the look of the hood!

[slimjim]

Well I have FINALLY gotten back from overseas and am hoping to pick up where I left off.
Spent some time on my car today, I replaced the unisteer steering arms with right stuff arms, I needed these to allow inner wheel clearance now that I'm using the ridetech spindles instead of the ATS spindles.
However I noticed the steering arms are at least an inch longer, which works fine with my 8inch wide wheels but they will need to be changed again if i am to go a wider wheel in the future, if anyone has any experience or knows if this could negatively affect steering then please chime in.


I also got to play with the trans tunnel and freshly powder coated dash frame, I'm hoping to get started on this in a couple weeks after a little ski trip.

[frojoe]

It looks like the angle between the steering rack and the steering link (is it still called a tie rod end for a rack setup?) is pretty huge. For a steering rack you want about 10 degrees angle, depending on the steering arms and side-to-side movement of the rack, to help with Ackerman angle while turning.

http://image.hotrod.com/f/9021098+w6...lutions%2B.jpg

Depending on how big your angle is, if it's large like it looks to be in your picture then it could make the steering wonky at higher steering angles. Also, steering feel is very sensitive to arm length,and if they're 1" longer than what you had previously, then your steering could get drastically slower with reduced steering angle.. but that all depends on the throw of the rack (which I'm not personally familiar with). I think at this point you really just have to cycle the rack thru its travel and measure your steering angle at the hubs to get an idea if the steering arms will be too long & make the steering angle too small, as well as look at how parallel the steering links get to the rack thru turning. But to know for sure you'll just have to test drive it.

[slimjim]

It looks like the angle between the steering rack and the steering link (is it still called a tie rod end for a rack setup?) is pretty huge. For a steering rack you want about 10 degrees angle, depending on the steering arms and side-to-side movement of the rack, to help with Ackerman angle while turning.

http://image.hotrod.com/f/9021098+w6...lutions%2B.jpg

Depending on how big your angle is, if it's large like it looks to be in your picture then it could make the steering wonky at higher steering angles. Also, steering feel is very sensitive to arm length,and if they're 1" longer than what you had previously, then your steering could get drastically slower with reduced steering angle.. but that all depends on the throw of the rack (which I'm not personally familiar with). I think at this point you really just have to cycle the rack thru its travel and measure your steering angle at the hubs to get an idea if the steering arms will be too long & make the steering angle too small, as well as look at how parallel the steering links get to the rack thru turning. But to know for sure you'll just have to test drive it.

Thanks for your help, nice simple diagram also.
I'll take some measurements and see where I'm at, it certainly increased the angle using these new arms and wasn't even slightly on my mind when trying to overcome the last problem with the unisteer arms..
unfortunately I won't have the luxury of test driving it for some time so it looks like i will hit the books and learn everything I can about Ackerman angle. I'll also have the steering column and steering wheel arrive in a couple days so that should help with the testing. Thanks again

[frojoe]

No worries, I thought I'd chime in since I was just reading up about steering the other day and it was fresh in my mind. If you are into hitting the books, I'd suggest this one..

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Race-...Road+Race+Cars

It is based off of circle track & stock car stuff, but in almost all the aspects of suspension/steering/chassis that he describes, he notes the difference between what he has experimented and found works best for left turns, and how it needs to differ or is the same for pavement road course stuff. There's a very good section about steering. I have a handful of books and I'd say this one goes into the deepest detail with the the best explanations, without going full enginerdy about it and breaking out calculus!

Cheers,
joe

[slimjim]

No worries, I thought I'd chime in since I was just reading up about steering the other day and it was fresh in my mind. If you are into hitting the books, I'd suggest this one..

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Race-...Road+Race+Cars

Cheers,
joe

Ordered.
I'll give it a read, I know I have a lot to learn, especially with suspension Geometry, but it's actually an area I'd enjoy learning more about.
I appreciate the help.
Totally off topic but I just noticed where you're from, I'm flying up to Vancouver tomorrow, no sight-seeing for me however, it's straight to whistler for a week!

[frojoe]

Ordered.
I'll give it a read, I know I have a lot to learn, especially with suspension Geometry, but it's actually an area I'd enjoy learning more about.
I appreciate the help.
Totally off topic but I just noticed where you're from, I'm flying up to Vancouver tomorrow, no sight-seeing for me however, it's straight to whistler for a week!

I'm in the same boat.. I've learned so much about everything else that it's time to buckle down and learn the hardcore suspension design theory, hehe. I look forward to seeing what you come up with and continuing to watch this build.

Awesome! Whistler has a ****load of snow in the forecast.. something like 200cm (78") over the next week... so enjoy all that pow!

[Rag-Rat]

I finally found one, it was not easy to locate.

[slimjim]

I finally found one, it was not easy to locate.

Oh nice job, nothing has happened with mine just yet, I plan to get cutting next week

[slimjim]

Today i got my rear end away for narrowing. and once the official measurement is clarified I will order a center section and axles to go with it.
Several issues are holding my car up right now, which will hopefully lead to exciting news in the coming months, but I decided to put a couple hours work into the interior after getting a lot of help and motivation from john aka cryptonomad.
initially I just wanted to size up the steering column and look into the U-joints to fit my R+P, but hey presto none were required, then after removing some tabs and some minor trimming of the 2012 dash framing we managed to get quite close. The column isn't quite bolting up to the frame, It's about an inch off, but the frame isn't quite in place yet, some serious trimming and work needs to be put into the trans tunnel, and everything needs to be lowered about an inch, but all in all not bad for an hours work.

[slimjim]

A little more progress, I got the 5th gen steering column mounted, however this is not final, this will just allow me to steer the car for now. It's about an inch short of its required location and will interfere with headers too much.
Chris Cline racing is taking care of my rear end, narrowing it down to 53" and fitting a posi tru-trak setup.
I'm heading back overseas in a couple days but next time I see it I'll be fitting the brakes and wheels then dropping it down to the ground, ready for the final push in fabrication.

[latoracing]

A little progress is always a good thing. How did they attach the column to the firewall?

[slimjim]

A little progress is always a good thing. How did they attach the column to the firewall?

It's not attached, I just fed it through the standard location and it worked, I'd like to fill it and make an oval cutout like the 5th ben grommet you see in the above pic for a clean appearance. but this can't be done until the column is in its final location. The wheel also bolts directly to the new dash frame

[Cryptonomad]

Nice progress James. What header/manifold do you plan on using clear the shaft?

[slimjim]

Nice progress James. What header/manifold do you plan on using clear the shaft?

Thanks, It won't remain like this, I will have to lengthen it an inch at least, maybe try and clear it out of the way a little more if possible. I was thinking of purchasing speedtechs headers as they're designed for their subframe and R+P, But they're very pricey. I'll keep my options open

[slimjim]

I hate when a couple months pass and I don't have an update, but I've been overseas for work, however I'm back now to a bunch of deliveries and plan on making some good progress over the coming weeks.
Starting with fitting my 5th gen parking brakes and rear brakes to my new 9" rear-end and getting the car down on the ground.
These brackets were supplied by LSXconcepts and should be the last piece to my rear-end.

[ChevelleNV]

Nice looking brackets you got there