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    Results 21 to 38 of 38
    1. #21
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Location
      Charlestown NH
      Posts
      352
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by RobNoLimit View Post
      We see this all the time. The BP-10 is a good pad, if you have power brakes and you are really concerned about low dusting. With the gain in interest towards auto-x and track days, carrying a second set of pads is going to become pretty normal. I run EBC Yellow, Wilwood E, or BP-20 for spirited street, then swap to BP-30 or B pads for short track days. - just clean the wheels ASAP, they will pit and etch the wheel.

      As for pressures, lets work it through. Say you push down with 80 lbs of foot pressure (that's pretty hard), on a 6-1 pedal. You get 480 lbs of input force to work with. If your balance bar is 50/50, you have 240 lbs per master cyl. A 3/4" bore master (front brake) has .44 in. surface, with 240 lbs = 545 psi. The 7/8" bore master (rear brake) has .601 in. surface, with 240 lbs = 399 psi. This is a bit simplified, as balance bar systems are dynamic, but you get the idea. Where is the 1200 psi everybody talks about? lol, not happening, not here. If you want the feel, response, and ability to modulate brakes, you have to go manual, and that means lower operating pressures. From here, small changes in bore size, pedal ratio, and pad compound is where you sort it all out.


      Rob, i upgraded to the BP-20 since it was hard to find different pads for those calipers, and Yellow Stuff EBC in the rear, and i still wouldnt write home about this thing stopping.

      If i put my foot into it all the way it still isnt even close to locking up. (Im 206lbs 5'10") Are manual brakes really this bad? i have a decent amount of pedal travel but its not squishy. i could try bleeding them again but the last two times there was no air.

      i am producing brake dust like crazy, just not hooking.

      Thanks - Dan
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...-Touring-Truck

      DMP Fabrication LLC
      Follow me on Instagram for welding and truck progress! - Americangraffiti

    2. #22
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      the dirty mitten
      Posts
      1,212
      Country Flag: United States
      I don't think I saw it in the post, what piston area calipers do you have? I just ordered aero 6 calipers for my car, 14 inch rotors and manual brakes, 3/4 master for the front and 7/8 for the rear on a tilton setup. Looking at wilwoods products the 6 piston calipers are offered in 2 piston areas, I ordered the 5.4 inch area since I have the manual brakes, the 4 inch area calipers are for a power brake setup
      Steve
      1968 Dodge Charger All Wheel Drive project Red Bull<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/5cce6da5/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/85dc54c0/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/85dc54c0/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

    3. #23
      Join Date
      Aug 2010
      Location
      now In Dandridge, Tn.
      Posts
      1,301
      Country Flag: United States
      First of all, Kudos for keeping at this, and not just throwing in the towel. Most of my experience with balance bar set ups is in actual race cars, and all though the math is the same, the driving experience and expectations are not. I run these on my truck and it's great, but, my truck is not very common, nor is the assembly of parts in it.

      I have been working with a local guy here in Knoxville with a similar set up, and similar results as you. We have tried many things, and still the braking is marginal at best, on the street. On the track, it's OK, your adrenaline is pumping, and stopping the car is reasonable. (Not great) - Still on BP-10 pads. On our last round we made two changes.

      1. We noticed that the firewall was flexing a fair amount. The fix was fairly easy. Sorry, I don't have pictures, but here goes. Each of the Wilwood masters (3 in all 2-brake and 1-clutch) has two 5/16"+ mounting holes through the bottom of the body. One towards the firewall, and one out by the end of the master. Once we loosened the 3 masters we could pass some 5/16" all thread through all three masters. There is appx 1/4" gap between each master. In one gap we put four washers (hey, this is still experimental) and in the other, we put in one end of a brace bar that we fabbed from 1/4" x 3/4" flat bar. around 8" long. The other end of the brace bar attached to a tab the we welded onto the top center of the lower steering column mount, and then tighten all the hardware back up. This helped a LOT. Any flexing of the firewall is a loss in line pressure. you may want to check this out.

      2. The road manners were still not great. So we did what I have been thinking for a long time, but everyone says is the wrong choice. The car had 3/4" and 7/8" masters front and rear. We pulled the 7/8" master and set it off to the side. Moved the 3/4" master to the rear and put a 5/8" bore master in for the front. FWI, on our first look, the 3/4" bore master put out 525psi, and with the same input on a 5/8" bore it makes 750psi or so.
      It now has good brakes on the street, and is still very responsive on the track. - worth a thought.

    4. #24
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Location
      Charlestown NH
      Posts
      352
      Country Flag: United States
      It's been a while. I hope Ron chimes in on this as well as I just read his 17 page write up in manual brakes.

      So my calipers are w6a,
      4.1 inch surface area x 2
      Pedals are 6.25:1
      Masters were 7/8, I went to 3/4 and now I'm at 5/8 for both heavily biased to the front. BP30 pads
      C5 corvette front calipers in the rear 3.53 Sq inches with ebc yellow pads.

      The 3/4 master worked well in the rear but I needed more in the front. MARSH racing that runs nascar told me to run 5/8 on both due to my struggle to lock them up. So I went with 2 Tilton 5/8 masters. Everything is stainless line with braided soft lines. Now my pedal starts alright but goes to the floor if I push really hard.
      This is frightening on the street. The last thing I have go change out is the front calipers.
      Math says I'm around 1300psi front and 720psi rear

      Now I have nowhere to go with masters. I think the front calipers are flexing ALOT but with 13.98" rotors up front and 12.5''s out back this thing shouldn't even be in question!

      HELP
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...-Touring-Truck

      DMP Fabrication LLC
      Follow me on Instagram for welding and truck progress! - Americangraffiti

    5. #25
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Orange County, CA
      Posts
      665
      My best guess is you do no have enough caliper piston area up front for a manual system. The fix is to either get calipers with larger piston areas or add boost.

      Try this, http://www.jakelatham.com/radical/in...culators.shtml also. You can probably solve your brake problem yourself with a few minutes on the calculator.

    6. #26
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Location
      Charlestown NH
      Posts
      352
      Country Flag: United States
      Thank you for the link! i will fill out that info when i get back to my shop. Sadly im guessing you're right, I cannot got boost, nor would i want to, I'm thinking of a set of Stoptechs.
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...-Touring-Truck

      DMP Fabrication LLC
      Follow me on Instagram for welding and truck progress! - Americangraffiti

    7. #27
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Location
      Charlestown NH
      Posts
      352
      Country Flag: United States
      Thank you for the link! i will fill out that info when i get back to my shop. Sadly im guessing you're right, I cannot got boost, nor would i want to, I'm thinking of a set of Stoptechs.
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...-Touring-Truck

      DMP Fabrication LLC
      Follow me on Instagram for welding and truck progress! - Americangraffiti

    8. #28
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Orange County, CA
      Posts
      665
      I think the Stoptech’s have a 5.something” piston area, which is good for a manual system. Wilwood does offer different piston areas as well on some of their calipers. Their “kits” tend to come with the smaller calipers but you can order them with a larger piston area at no additional charge.

    9. #29
      Join Date
      Mar 2014
      Location
      Long Beach
      Posts
      158
      Country Flag: United States
      Aero6 calipers come in a 5.40 piston area. The caliper body is much beefier and stiffer than the FNSL line. I have the aero6 front ans FNSL 4s rear on my camaro and the system has been great.
      You could get the super bad ass nickle finsih thermalock piston Aero6 for around $800.
      https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwo...xoC4TEQAvD_BwE
      (the above image is for illustrative purposes)
      Id probably try that before i bought a whole new brake kit for 3 grand.
      Call Tobin or Ron Sutton and buy whatever they tell you. I got my brake setup from Tobin and i never had any problems

    10. #30
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Posts
      27
      I have a similar setup on my 69 camaro PT. While measuring pressures, the Wilson’s gauge was leaking so I tightened and the brass fitting broke off inside. I didn’t have any conical seat bleeders so fluid leaked out.
      I have 1000 psi max and wanted better braking. After scuffing pads and rotors braking was better after bedding in. Next I changed from bp10 to 20 pads. Better but could not lock rears. Adjusted prop valve until rears would lock, then backed off. The big reads, 335x19, make it harder to lock up. Still doesn’t stop as well as my z06 with ceramics, but is better than my other early muscle cars.

    11. #31
      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      Location
      Southern Ontario
      Posts
      640
      Country Flag: Canada
      I would think if your pedal starts fine but then goes right to the floor, you have air in the system. FWIW, I have the same caliper area on the front, and use a 3/4" bore master, and my brakes suck.

    12. #32
      Join Date
      Aug 2018
      Location
      Saginaw Mi
      Posts
      94
      Country Flag: United States
      Man thats a long time to battle this brake situation. makes me nervous about my setup

    13. #33
      Join Date
      May 2007
      Posts
      117
      Tagging to read later.

      Tim
      '65 2+2
      347 - RetroTek EFI - 471 fwhp
      JBA shorty's, 2.5" tubes, Dr Gas X-pipe
      T-5 world class 5 speed, w/ .80 OD
      9" with 3.70's & T-loc
      4 wheel disc brakes
      17" Torq-Thrust D's, 225/45 & 245/45
      TCP/Global West suspension
      OpenTracker roller spring perches
      subframe connectors, Traction Masters, Panhard bar
      TCP manual rack & pinion
      power windows & power door locks w/ keyless entry

    14. #34
      Join Date
      Oct 2006
      Posts
      634
      Country Flag: United States
      I see they just deleted my aluminum drum for the 10 bolt thread. I went through the proper steps for adjustment and modifications of drum brakes to make them work well and they deleted it. This forum is becoming nothing but a commercial..


      All the GM A body needs if Porterfield RS-4 pads and shoes to stop just as good as anything new...
      https://www.porterfield-brakes.com/search.php

    15. #35
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Beach Park IL
      Posts
      2,838
      Country Flag: United States
      Not sure why you think it's deleted, it's right here. https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...=aluminum+drum
      Donny

      Support your local hot rod shop!

    16. #36
      Join Date
      Oct 2006
      Posts
      634
      Country Flag: United States
      They moved it to the Restoration Central section. I wonder why... Hmmm lol

    17. #37
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Pine Bush, NY 12566
      Posts
      122
      Country Flag: United States
      Just posting to monitor the thread ; ) (Some great brake info in the replies

    18. #38
      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      Location
      Southern Ontario
      Posts
      640
      Country Flag: Canada
      Did you ever get this figured out Dan?



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