My '69 Charger with AME full frame, IRS, and Viper twin turbo power

[Cop Magnet]

Background (skip ahead if you like, a lot of this is catch up)

I have had this project going on for about two years. It’s hard to explain how or why I got to the place I am at, especially from a fiscal perspective. As you all know, these projects only work out when you have a vision and a budget, and you stick to those as much as you can. Truth be told, my vision changed as I learned more about the project, the outcomes, and I made harder choices about how to spend my money. When it comes to some things, more is better, and more costs more. So the story you are going to hear is really several stories.

A little background on me. I had been a Viper Club member and owner for about 10 years. First a 2001 GTS and then a 2009 ACR. Lots of track days and lots of fun, but I never would claim to be a serious racer. All “drivers school” and no wheel to wheel racing, my cars were always WAY better drivers than I was. Also, I never engaged in a project like this…not even remotely. Keep that in mind.





So the new Viper was coming out, and fully loaded for the track it’s kissing $150 large. I figured for that kind of cheese I could build my own car, have a lot of fun, learn a lot, and have something with way more charisma. I had always loved the old B-bodies, especially the Charger. Naturally, the Viper motor seemed like a way to keep my roots with the Viper Club alive. I did what I thought was a lot of research, and found a car someone else had started that seemed like a shortcut to what I needed done. So I picked up the car from a guy in Alabama, and had the car brought up to Illinois.






So we start on the project with a very realistic budget, and modest goals. A Gen III Viper or Ram SRT-10 engine, new TR6060, and the existing rolling gear that came with the Charger. The car was flat black, partially assembled, much of it in boxes, and had almost no glass. But the engine bay was empty, it had a full roll cage, had a lot of extra parts, and it had front and rear suspensions and brakes set up. As it came, it had a RMS front subframe, a narrowed Strange Dana 60 with 3.54 posi’s, and Caltrac’s with monoleafs. Wilwood brakes all around, but not really huge discs. More set up for the street and strip but workable for my street and occasional roadcourse intentions.






(yeah, I know the outer tie rod end is secured incorrectly; you guys schooled me the first time I posted this--but this is the way it came)



I research the new TR6060 from the current Viper, which has 3.55’s and and I am anticipating using the same size tires, so I would expect this to work out perfectly. Everything I read said this trans was light years ahead of the older transmissions. The trans was on sale through the parts arm of the now essentially defunct Viper Club of America, so seemed reasonable. I got the clutch and flywheel required to mate the Gen III engine with the Gen V trans.




(I love opening boxes of new parts!)

I find a Ram-SRT engine complete with harness and computer with low miles and a clean pedigree. The truck was back-ended and from a Viper Truck Club member. So my girlfriend and I drive out to Indiana to meet the guy halfway and trailer it back. She’s good like that. Not most girls’ idea of a nice day, but just to hang out and go for a drive she is happy to help. If only I could get her to stop calling it “your Chevelle…” It was a fun drive pulling a trailer with a Viper motor in the back. Caught a few thumbs up along the way.



I have a good friend, "Fish", who owns several car dealerships here in Evanston. I can’t tell you how ridiculously genuine and helpful Fish has been. Whenever I was headed to the track, he’d throw me the keys to his garage and tell me to help myself. If he and I were there together, any car in his stable was mine to use. Here's his garage at the track (No, I don't live like this myself, LOL):



I mention Fish now as his offers to help in even seemingly small ways allowed this project to proceed where it might not have happened at all. For example, I mention to him I found a car in AL and am thinking of driving my own daily driver to see it and trailer it back—he says don’t do that, take the dually, use my trailer, etc…Ultimately, he arranges a guy to inspect it, pick it up, and deliver it to me. Another example: on the way back from Indiana with the engine, I realize we won’t get to the shop where the actual work was to be done before closing and I can’t park my truck and trailer anywhere I know of. I text him and, of course, he tells me to leave it at his personal garage and take one of his cars until I can unload the engine.



Talking to my anticipated engine builder, Dan Lesser from Viper Specialty Performance, it becomes obvious his expertise is invaluable. I have never talked to a guy who responded so quickly and so thoroughly to each and every question. Before long, I was in so deep with information alone, there was no other choice but Dan. We quickly realize my budget for the entire engine would probably be consumed by the harness alone. We decide on a Pectel-based system, and a freshening up of the motor for “more money but a reasonable investment in the quality of my build”. Remember that phrase…





I have a friend, Ron, who owned his own shop and did a ton of custom work. Their expertise is body and paint, but they can do it all. They have a great interior guy, and do electronics and almost everything else. Or can get it done. Ron has always taken care of my Vipers and daily drivers, and always treated me fairly. Ron hires out a muscle car guy for me, since it is a little out of his area. Brian starts working in spurts. He does some significant work here and there, but travels from Joliet every day so sometimes its hit and miss if he can’t spend a full day. He makes the motor mounts, cuts the trans tunnel, and builds a new one. He builds the trans mount and we were on ride height ideas. We talk about switching the rear end set up for a 4-link. Then one day, Brian disappears. Won’t answer my emails, calls, or texts. I saw him once about a year later at a car show, and he showed me pictures of the boat project that “preoccupied” him. Whatever, bro.




(Already I can see I am not happy with some of his ideas...)





Over the next winter, even though not much was happening with my car, I get more and more excited about it. I feel more like I want to get back to the track in top form. Something which can not only have Viper power, but Viper-level handling. I had been willing to trade off some aerodynamics and a lot of handling for similar power and much more class. Now I start to think of ways to bridge the gap a little.

[Cop Magnet]

Enter my friend Bob Stange, founder and owner of Strange Engineering. I’ve known him casually for a few years, and being the great guy he is he always volunteered to help in any way. I knew he was a valuable resource, but didn’t really want to involve him until the project had some steam under the wings. As soon as we crossed paths again and I told him about my project, he sent me a copy of Mark Stielow’s book.


(Jimmy Prock, Bob Stange, and myself)

Bob comes out to take a look at the project and brings his chassis engineer, Dean Dodge (yes, that’s his real name). We go over my expectations and the shortcomings of the chassis and equipment I have so far. I knew I’d want a four link, but he had other thoughts on the front end, cage build, and overall design. Dean started talking about CG and roll center, terms that made sense. Then it was KPI and static vs. dynamic camber, things I heard of but would have to look up. Soon, he was speaking a language none of the four car guys in our meeting understood at all. Even Bob looked at me and rolled his eyes. Bottom line, the car would not really handle like I wanted without a lot of work. Bob felt I should have started with a clean slate, and I regretted not bringing him in sooner. Bob just said, “Listen to Dean. He’s the best.”

So here’s where I really jump the shark. Two things happen in parallel. I decide to go with a full frame from Art Morrison and I decide to go with a fully race-prepped block that Dan has on hand. The frame makes much of the running gear my car came with superfluous. The long block that Dan has on hand makes my complete Ram SRT-10 engine superfluous as well. Fortunately, I sell the front and rear end of the original car to offset my purchase price of the complete car some. I still have the Ram engine, but we will use it for fitment, then I will sell it. I had actually bought a bare block for fitment earlier, so now I have THREE engines to work with. Yay.

Dean works on the standard AME MaxG chassis, providing a few “tweaks”. You know how engineers are, nothing less than perfection is acceptable. Dean literally insisted on having things his way. Spec ZR-1 hubs and C6 spindles all the way around deviate me from my Viper roots. More stiffening here and there, across this load path and that. In the end, Dean redesigned AME’s frame to a point we hope they will integrate the changes into their standard design. Dean explained that the existing chassis evolved from basic applications, mostly drag racing, and was never designed from scratch for the type of high-G driving people do now. He took a fresh eye to it, and it’s a whole new piece of architecture now. According to Dean, the chassis went from a few thousand pounds per degree of chassis twist to 20,000 pounds. For reference, the new Corvette is at 50k. However, when we are done with the roll cage, we may be at that point. I am not sure how much it weighs, but it’s not as light as the Corvette, for sure. Obviously, this didn't arrive overnight, but let me tell you this thing is gorgeous...













Bob talks to me about IRS for the chassis. He can provide the center section, and of course he is friends with Art Morrison so he’s smoothing things out all the way. With his help, I really couldn’t pass that up. He also points me to carbon ceramic brakes, but first I agonize over so much coinage, and then it turns out its not available for the Camaro-based rear. Bob knows Will very well, and makes the purchases for me. I hate to sound like a name dropper, so I’ll be clear, I don’t know Art or Will and didn’t know Dean before all this, it’s all Bob that makes this happen. So we go with Wilwood 14.25” discs in front, with 6-puck thermolock pistons and spec 37 discs. Also 14.25” rears with 4-piston calipers.












ZR-1 wheels and some scrubs a friend of Dean's was nice enough to give me.

At this point, I am so far from my original idea for the project that I consider selling what I have and starting anew. After all, I have an engine, trans, body, front and rear suspensions, and brakes--most of which I won’t be using. I could start with a clean driver and sell all the extra stuff almost complete. But my ads draw little interest for the project as-is, so I wind up parting everything out that I don’t need. Probably made more money this way, but as you know, the downside is advertising, haggling, and shipping. I met some good guys this way, though, and everyone was super interested in the project. I only talked to one guy who turned to be a douche. He flamed me in a public forum for asking too much for the RMS front end. Truth be told, as with all these things, the asking price is a ballpark and of course I would negotiate. But he lowballed me from the get-go and then publicly called me out for no reason other than he didn’t like my price. So I lowered the price and told everyone I’d sell it to any of them but this guy. :D Sold right away after that.

[dragonfly jones]

Very cool project

[Cop Magnet]

So, unfortunately, Ron sells his ownership interest in his shop to a larger corporation. He stays on as manager, but they do exclusively collision now. Therefore, we loaded up the car and moved it to (yet another hook up from Richard) BTRacing in Evanston. Bart runs the shop and I like him immediately. He is frank with me on what he can do and cannot do—they do mostly imports but they are hard core racers and the attention to detail is amazing. I’d rather have someone who knows their limits and is up front on what they can do than pretend they can do it all and sell me short. Bart is a tremendously hard working guy and very fair. He knows people who can media blast the car, fabricate, etc. We do much of the work when the frame arrives at Bart’s shop (the pictures in the previous post are actually his shop). We get the car gutted and media blasted. The plan is to get it to the fabricators, get everything fitted for assembly, to paint, and then back here for finish assembly.









Some of the deficits in the body become apparent, of course, after media blasting. But most of the body was very clean, no rust to speak of but prior repairs galore.



The wheels and tires looked ridiculous once I could see them on the car. Although on paper, it seemed proportional, the 335/25/20's are just too short for the wide hips on this car. Plus the offset is wrong, they don't fill out the wheel well nicely. These two issues are especially evident because the car is so low. When you are looking down, the wheel seems even more tucked back in the wheel well and of course looks smaller. I could do this tire on the track with a deeper dish wheel, but I will need to lose these brand new ZR-1 wheels. You can get an idea of the perspective changes here:

[Zanie]

Holy Moly!
How long ago did you buy the Charger?

[Cop Magnet]

Two years almost exactly. It sat for maybe 9 months with nothing happening when the first builder disappeared and probably while Ron worked out the sale of his shop. He told me one day the shop and all its contents were being inventoried for possession by the new owner, so we had to come and get everything almost right away. Plus I gotta tell you, everything I ordered took about 3x longer to come than what they said initially. That's life.

[Cop Magnet]

The car moved from Bart's to Josh Eagan's garage. He runs H&H Custom Rods in Joliet. Josh is the main fabricator and builder. He has done a ton of work, first of all fitting the frame and car together. We discussed channeling the floor to fit the new frame, making outriggers to make it a body-on-frame, or creating a new unibody between the two. The option of powdercoating the frame became a more difficult issue with the unibody approach, but it seemed the cleanest. Josh created a new inner rocker to get the body and frame together. He created a template and then had the pattern created down the whole length of the rocker, welding the two together all the way.




(Dont; ask why Dean Dodge's name is on the frame...)







We're not quite ready for this, but a guy can dream. Maybe even sit in the seat with a pretend steering wheel and make vroom vroom noises...

[Cop Magnet]

From Josh's shop the car goes to Anthony Delorto at Vulcan Racing Fab for the full roll cage treatment. Anthony is another great guy I had the pleasure to meet and have him work on my car. Couldn't have asked for anything more. He is a perfectionist, and that's what I need here.






















(We call this focal point where the rear bars overlap the diagonals to the rear shock mounts "the flux capacitor")

[Zanie]

That's a serious cage!

[Cop Magnet]

Anthony had this Beemer mirror laying around. A little big but interesting. We've been talking about Lexan windows on the sides and back, which would allow getting rid of the corner vent window.



Also while the car was at Anthony's, I ordered these Mickey Thompsons. At least for the street I can have a better overall stance and proportion. Check out the size difference.




(The suspension is so stiff at this point--without coilovers--you have to disconnect the rear sway bar to get enough travel to drop a tire).

Back to Josh's for the meat of the project. Milestones like completing the cage and moving the car, even if no where near under her own power, make me really excited. Anthony did a superb job, and I'll be getting the car back to him for the intake and exhaust work.

[Cop Magnet]

That's a serious cage!

Yes, sorry a lot of pictures are out of order, sort of. As the project got more and more complex, I put off creating a thread longer and longer, then didn't know where to start. It's been just enough to keep my head around the project as a whole, let alone think about how to tell the story.

One thing I left out was the uprights inside the door bars. Didn't want it to seem like the flat metal with the die-cut holes lay just over the two horizontal bars.

[Cop Magnet]

So, I have mentioned a couple of times that the car is getting a twin turbo. That was not the original plan by any means. I've always been a firm believer in all motor builds. I wanted something that was bulletproof, and discussed this with Dan in great detail all along. We picked and chose options for my engine, including Carillo rods and coated pistons. We decided to go with the Pectel engine management system (very few engine management systems are reliably available for Viper engines). I also opted for the ICD digital dash. Dan pointed out that the level of build I was doing was basically his fully optioned motor, with all the internals he would use on his 1500 hp twin turbo setup. By simply changing the cam, and compression, and of course buying the turbos themselves, we would be going from 700 or 800 hp potentially up to 1500. There are a lot of Viper guys who run twin turbos of this type or previous versions. Even back when I had my 2001 GTS, there were guys pulling 2000 hp all day long with the older models. Dan is a meticulous and detail oriented guy also, and is well known in the Viper community. He felt I could have a streetable twin turbo car, without significant lag, which would run all day long even on hot track days.

The build will include:

-Blueprinted Engine w/ Oil System Modifications
-Billet Main Caps & ARP Studding
-Piston Cooling Oil Jets for Hot-Lapping
-Custom Carrillo Billet Connecting Rods w/Multiphase Hardware
-Custom CP Billet Pistons w/Coating Package
-Heavy-Wall DLC Coated .990 Wrist Pins
-Coated bearings
-Keyed and Balanced Crankshaft
-Gen-4 Race Oil Pan with swing-arm pickup
-ATI Damper
-Adjustable Timing Set & Custom Grind Camshaft
-CNC machined Gen-4 Head Conversion Package w/dual Billet Throttle Bodies
-Gen-4 Coil-Near-Plug Conversion, New Spark Plugs & Wires
-McLeod Street Twin Miba Clutch
-Full Dual-Pumped Variable-Speed Weldon Based Fuel System
-On-demand Secondary Fuel System Minimizes Hot Fuel Return, and is completely quiet during cruise
-Polished and Anodized Billet Fuel Rails
-Gen V intake
-ID1000 Fuel Injectors
-Pectel SQ6M12 Autosport Terminated Controller
-Dual NTK Closed Loop Wideband Sensors
-Dual EGT Monitoring
-Dual Knock Detection
-Cosworth Omega ICD Full Color Digital Dash
-4-Calibration Selectable Tuning [91 Octane, 93 Octane, Pump/Race Mix and Race Fuel]
-7-Position Selectable Traction/Launch Control
-Internal System Logging
-Full Engine System Warnings & Limp Modes
-Expandable for Telemetry System Use
-Full Powder-coating and Appearance Package

This is the Pectel engine management system, with mil-spec connectors.



The actual digital dash and a cartoon of what it should look like, hopefully with no injector errors, LOL.





Parts waiting to be assembled. As with all things on this project, there were huge delays. No fault of Dan's, but suppliers, machinists, and everyone down the chain had issues or mistakes. Fortunately, Dan knows right away when something is not right and gets it fixed. He is also terrific about communication. I've learned a lot from our dialogue over this past year or so.



Bare block:



Bearings in place.



Oh yeah...



Rod and Piston Assembly, Carrillo Custom Rod with Multiphase hardware 7-16 in. Bolts, Coated CP Custom Piston with all the options, .990DLC pins.

[cactuss4]

This is an interesting comment

". In the end, Dean redesigned AME’s frame to a point we hope they will integrate the changes into their standard design. Dean explained that the existing chassis evolved from basic applications, mostly drag racing, and was never designed from scratch for the type of high-G driving people do now."

So what is the current version of AME chassis and is this more centered to the Dodge or all of their chassis, you pay a pretty big penny for them and if they are not all that thought out for "what we want out of them" that is interesting.

Tory

[Cop Magnet]

I don't know if I'd say that. You could bolt on a front subframe with rack and pinion, and a rear section narrowed with 4-link or IRS, like a lot of people--or you could go full frame with both plus more. There's a lot to be said for a well engineered complete frame as a clean slate on which to build your ride. Depends where you are starting from, whether you will add a cage, and where you want to wind up in the end.

[Schwartz Performance]

Pretty sure I saw this at the Race and Performance Expo it St Charles early this year.. Nice project!

-Dale

[andrewb70]

Sparing no expense!

Going to use this?

http://www.emcogears.com/dv46/

Probably not with the power you're going to be making.

Andrew

[Justin@EntropyRad]

Serious gear, across the board!

[Cop Magnet]

Sparing no expense!

Going to use this?

http://www.emcogears.com/dv46/

Probably not with the power you're going to be making.

Andrew

I have not heard about this before, but the TR6060 could be a weak link even with the right "treatment". The website offers no specs or info except the pictures.

[Cop Magnet]

Pretty sure I saw this at the Race and Performance Expo it St Charles early this year.. Nice project!

-Dale

It was there! Josh brought it in to show it off. Still a long way to go.
I was there for a while towards the end of the day, wish I had met you!

[jlcustomz]

I remember seeing a light green charger with a viper drivetrain in the early to mid 2,000's at a Goodguy's show.

Yea it was pretty cool, but I'm sure your version will have his beat by a longshot.