No Limit Sniper IFS test car. The Roach

[RobNoLimit]

Here we go. To show the abilities of our new IFS we needed to put out a car that we could not only show the build, but drive it, and let others drive it. While searching for prospects (I wanted a Firebird) we came across what we 'thought' was a pretty solid car and a good buy. A trip out to Maryland showed the car to be a little less than represented. But, some haggling and discussion and we loaded the car up and headed home. Once we got it in the shop, and on the rack, it shows that we may not have haggled enough. That's life. So, we've got this '68 and we're moving forward. It took about 20 minutes in the shop and the guys started calling it "the Roach" so there it is.

The name is probably fitting, as we don't plan on building a 'pretty' car to start with. The car needs to show the performance and ability of the suspension on it's own. No big motors, no fancy trans, no slick paint. We're going to use a standard small block 355 and a TH350. The front suspension will be our new Sniper IFS, but with no big upgrades. We will be using a single adjustable ridetech coil-over, the standard .250 wall sway bar, and 13", 4 piston brakes. For the driver there will be a pair of Pro-Car seats, an IDIDIT column, and the stock pedals, complete with a 1" 'vette iron master cyl. Out back, we will be fitting the car with a 3-link, coil-overs and a 9" ford rear. Subframe connectors, a 4-point bar (mostly for harness mounts) and some mini tubbs will finish the package.



Starting with a running/driving car was supposed to make the build easier, but we'll see about that. We have already installed the DSE mini-tubbs, and doing so discovered some cleverly hidden rust that needed mending. We've started on the rear suspension and decided that we will have to rewire the car, so most of the OE wiring is out. The subframe is built, and ready to go in, and we test fitted some headers for clearance. No problems, although, all of the long tube headers that we tried hung down way below the subframe rails, so we're going to use a 3/4 length header. We hope to have this car back on the road in a few short moths, so the build will be quick. Simplicity is the key for this one.

[andrewb70]

Looking forward to more.

Andrew

[Peter Mc Mahon]

This is going to be good! The car will be at events for people to drive? That's awesome Get back to work

[DJW32]

I'll be watching this thread.

[wfo guy]

"Sure it's a good solid car and I drive it all the time." Why would you ask? Seller to buyer, again. Looking forward to this, Rob. Will the new front end be able to take 7" back space wheels?

[no go nova]

Can't wait to see what your car stuff can do. Hint next time do a 66-67 NOVA.

[DJW32]

What kind of radiator do you guys plan on running?

[RobNoLimit]

"Sure it's a good solid car and I drive it all the time." Why would you ask? Seller to buyer, again. Looking forward to this, Rob. Will the new front end be able to take 7" back space wheels?

The spec wheel would be a 18 x 11 with 8 1/4" back, an 18 x 10 1/2 with 7 3/4" back, or an 18 x 10 with a 7 1/4" back. These will keep the front face in the same location. An 18 x 10 or an 18 x 9 1/2 with 7" of backspace would fit as well.

[RobNoLimit]

What kind of radiator do you guys plan on running?

We usually build a radiator with a Howe core for most of our projects, but for this one, due to the timeline we may look toward an "off the shelf" part. Any input would be welcome.

[Larry Callahan]

Nice!

[omiotek]

Have you used the bell cores? How makes great stuff no doubt but I'm partial to the bell products and use them with all my intercoolers and what not. I haven't built any one off custom stuff or older car stuff but I use them on the sport compact world

[DJW32]

Howe does offer a drop in unit for Camaros.

[Justin@EntropyRad]

We usually build a radiator with a Howe core for most of our projects, but for this one, due to the timeline we may look toward an "off the shelf" part. Any input would be welcome.

I've got one that will fit!

[RobNoLimit]

Just got off the phone with Justin @ Entropy and we have a new Radiator on the way. With fans and shroud. That's one of the check list.

[Justin@EntropyRad]

Thanks again, Rob!

Can't wait to see it on there!

[RobNoLimit]

Made some progress on the underside. As we are working on the rear suspension, we are also working to tie the car together. And, the Roach needs it. Some floor pans have been replaced or repaired, and the rear sub rails have been weakened by nature. Working on some other F-bodies, I have noticed that it is common that the forces from loading the tire hard (with 4-bar and leaf cars) will 'push' the front spring pocket forward and start to bend the rear sub rails. Subframe connectors are the common answer. When it comes to these mods, you can go for the minimum (bolt-on sub connector) or the maximum (full tube chassis car). We wanted to get all of the added strength that we could, without a full chassis. As we put in the connectors, we are planning for the rear suspension mounts to tie into them, as well as the cage.

We are starting with 3" x 4" x .120" wall tubing. We cut the profile on a waterjet to fit the OE floor pan. A 4" wide pocket needs to be cut into the floor. We have a template to help with this. Once the pocket is cut the connectors are fitted into place. Some light grinding is required to get a perfect fit. The body is set level and square, side to side, and front to back. Once the connectors fit into place they are squared up and set level, then welded in. Next we will cap the ends, and later connect to the new subframe and the rear sub rails.

[RobNoLimit]

Some more progress. The inner fenders are cleaned up. We widened them 1 1/4" to the inside and raised them at the outer lip. The subframe connectors are welded in fully on the top and bottom.

[PhillipM]

Any pictures of the widening taking place?

[carbuff]

^ I'm curious about that too. It's not obvious to me where it's done, since I don't know the first gens nearly as well as the seconds.

[RobNoLimit]

Well, the guys widened the inners fenders so fast that they didn't get any picts. I'm going to do another set, starting with some better (less rust ) inners and make some molds. I'll post up the mod picts as I go on that one.

Next up. I'm still focusing on the "tie the car together" plan. We have the subframe connectors welded in, and have set in the subframe (and an OE sub to compare) a few times. For some general knowledge, we tried a set of urethane mounts, some stock height solid mounts, and a 1/2" drop solid mount set. They all fit fine and line up nice. In the end I would like to use solid mounts under the body, and rubber or urethane on the core support. I like the idea of the 1/2" drop mounts, just to clean up the sight line under the car. But, with the 1/2" mounts in place, the subframe contacted the floor in a few places, only slightly, but enough to cause noise/vibration. We tried the 1/2" drop mounts with the OE sub, same thing. So, we put 1/8" spacer (fabbed 3" washer) under the four body mounts, and everything fits great. So really, we have a 3/8" drop mount set. I can use the urethane core support mounts and cut them down to fit.

Our Sniper subframe has four welded thread inserts for connecting to subframe connectors, and we plan on using them, be we wanted more strength in the middle of the car. Plus, our pinch welds under the rockers don't look so good. The welded subframe connector and the new Sniper subframe fit nice, and fitting the connector tabs will be easy. To add more strength, clean up the belly, and add some side-impact safety, we fabbed up some bolt-in side rails. The idea is to tie the rocker, "A" pillar, and "B" pillar to the subframe connector and front and rear suspension.

The outer strip is basically a big long washer. Next time we're going to add some length to the back for a better look, taking it all the way to the back of the pinch weld. Using the strip as a guide, we drilled our the holes in the rocker pinch weld. These are 9/32" holes, for 1/4" hardware. With the holes drilled out, we cleaned up both sides of the pinch weld. - Hey, we don't call it the Roach for nuthin. Yep, found some more hidden rust. The next piece is formed to fit from the inside of the pinch weld inward to the subframe and connector. There is appx 3/8" gap from the edge of the side rail to the subframe. Threaded lugs are pre-welded to the back side of the rail so that it can be bolted to the rocker pinch weld. We used 1/4" x 1" bolts for now, we will switch to SST button heads later.

The next step will be to connect the side rail to the subframe and connectors. We have six tabs that bolt to the side rail and will be welded to the subframe and connectors, three tabs on each, two bolts per tab. Once finished this should add considerable strength and stability to the center of the car. I'll get some finished picts up in a few days.