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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Posts
      266
      Country Flag: United States

      1965 Mustang Coupe Build...

      My name is Blake and I just purchased a 1965 Coupe. Car has lots of new sheet metal and is solid, but is basically just a roller.


      Current plans are:


      Mustang II front cross member w/ coilovers
      SN95 Cobra brakes all around w/ power booster
      9" rear w/ 4 link
      Custom gauges (Speedhut from a previous project)
      Looking at either a Coyote or an LS motor with a T56 and some kind of turbo or blower setup. Still up in the air.
      ProEFI engine management (depending on the motor choice)
      A/C (modern)
      P/S (possibly electric)
      Subtle body mods (shave drip rails and door locks, probably a few other small things)
      British Racing Green paint
      CCW classic style wheels
      Modernized interior (power seats, custom center console, modern stereo system, etc.)


      Probably more I'll come up with along the way. I am considering flush mounting the glass, but we'll see if I can come up with an easier way to achieve the look I want.


      Here are a couple shots of previous cars I've done:


      1988 Mazda RX7 - single turbo LS1/T56 ~750 RWHP

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      1993 Mazda RX7 - twin turbo LSx/T56 ~1100 RWHP

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      I did all of the turbo fabrication in both cars and most of the remaining fab, though a friend does the TIG work. I built the custom 4 link (8.8) in the 1988 RX7 as well as some of the engine build in the '88 and the transmissions in both.
      1988 Mazda RX7 - Forged LS/T56, 76mm turbo, ProEFI, Ford 8.8 - Sold
      1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, Haltech, big brakes, updated suspension.
      2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Full bolt-ons
      2016 BMW 428iX GranSport - Stock...ish.


    2. #2
      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Posts
      266
      Country Flag: United States
      Here is the car when it was unloaded from the trailer (which was done at 3 AM after a 10.5 hour drive through the mountains in the rain/fog, ugh, not a fun evening):

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      And pushed up my mountain of a driveway into the garage. I mocked up my wheels to get an idea of how it would look. I like it.

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      Floors are new but done so-so. I need to tweak a few things, but not terrible:

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      Half of these boxes have brand new parts in them. Car came with a new rear bumper, valences, side glass, etc. also.

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      1988 Mazda RX7 - Forged LS/T56, 76mm turbo, ProEFI, Ford 8.8 - Sold
      1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, Haltech, big brakes, updated suspension.
      2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Full bolt-ons
      2016 BMW 428iX GranSport - Stock...ish.

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Posts
      266
      Country Flag: United States
      So after some more digging, the lower cowl is pretty trashed. It's not rusted THROUGH but it's close enough that I'm just going to replace it. Also going to add torque boxes (since the '65 didn't include them) while I'm at it.

      I did get an ugly patch removed and cleaned up the other shoddy repair work on the driver's side cowl area.

      Here are is a before/after of the patch area:

      Before (after I took off the patch panel... which came off with a few taps from a chisel. No weld penetration. But hey, that's why we fix things like this, right?):

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      After. I made the patch in a coupe of layers. The first (outside) layer mimics the flange on the pillar, the second (inner) layer is the cowl side panel. This made the repair look a little more "factory" than just doing it in one layer. I realize you can't see this once the car is assembled, but I know it's there... ;)

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      Going to fix a couple of small areas on the passenger side then start on the cowl. There are a couple of small areas that are pinholed up at the top of the firewall and cowl side panels right near the drain on the lower cowl panel so I will fix those areas when the cowl is out since it will be easy to reach everything that way. This seems to be the only area on the car that wasn't addressed when the previous owner replaced the rest of the sheet metal.

      And the front driver's side of the car cleaned, etch primed, sealer primed and coated in bed liner. I did not bother with the shock tower since it will be going away anyway when I update the front suspension.

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      And a shot showing the inside of the cowl. It's probably repairable, but if I'm going to rip it open, I would rather just replace it all.

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      1988 Mazda RX7 - Forged LS/T56, 76mm turbo, ProEFI, Ford 8.8 - Sold
      1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, Haltech, big brakes, updated suspension.
      2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Full bolt-ons
      2016 BMW 428iX GranSport - Stock...ish.

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Posts
      266
      Country Flag: United States
      So very many spot welds!

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      Damaged area on the driver's side removed:

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      Picture of the nastiness that is the "fresh air towers" on the cowl. There is some misc. damage in the firewall/panels around these, but it's minor so I'll fabricate new pieces to patch it and sort it out.

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      Fabricated a new flange/panel for the damaged areas at the top of the firewall/cowl side panels where the fresh air towers had rotted them out. You can't see it from the angle of the picture but it actually has the little 90* lip on the front for factory appearance. I'm pretty happy with how it came out; a lot of this sheetmetal fabrication is my first time trying it, so I'm glad it's turning out decently.

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      Nasty old fresh air tower:

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      Nice new towers:

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      Finished lower cowl:

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      Upper cowl reinstalled:

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      Gaps need some work (yay aftermaket panels) but the cowl alignment is alright:

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      1988 Mazda RX7 - Forged LS/T56, 76mm turbo, ProEFI, Ford 8.8 - Sold
      1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, Haltech, big brakes, updated suspension.
      2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Full bolt-ons
      2016 BMW 428iX GranSport - Stock...ish.

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Jul 2014
      Posts
      65
      Country Flag: United States
      Nice work! Project is looking good. I was lucky on my 64 falcon to have no cancer (at least I haven't found any yet.lol), but those mustangs always seem to have one pesky spot! Keep up the good work though. Cant wait till its done.

      ~Reagan
      1974 F250- 428 c6
      1959 F100 Project -For Sale
      1964 Falcon Sprint 347 4 speed Pro Touring build!
      Follow us on instagram @blueghostindustries
      http://www.enjoygram.com/blueghostindustries

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Posts
      266
      Country Flag: United States
      Driver's side torque box installation completed.

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      Drip rail shaved and welded (still need to tweak a small area at the front and fix a couple spots where the roof was joined (lead) and the quarter panel was joined (bondo by previous owner):


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      Aftermarket door fits like crap... let's fix that:

      Before:

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      After:

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      It took a TON of work to get the alignment, well, aligned, but it's dramatically better. The bottom of the door "C" body line is still way off, going to have to be cut and moved to align correctly. Oy.

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      1988 Mazda RX7 - Forged LS/T56, 76mm turbo, ProEFI, Ford 8.8 - Sold
      1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, Haltech, big brakes, updated suspension.
      2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Full bolt-ons
      2016 BMW 428iX GranSport - Stock...ish.

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Posts
      266
      Country Flag: United States
      Passenger side torque box installed and seam/plug welded:

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      And I'm thoroughly dedicated to the updated front suspension now...

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      You'll notice the "slice" out of the fender apron. That will be a part of the bracing system I'm building to support the front end and tie it into the firewall/subframe/cowl/torque box with 1.5" tubing. Objective is to make up for the loss of the strut towers and export brace/monte carlo brace and then some. There will be a custom made export brace style piece that will tie into my tubular pieces and the firewall. I plan to integrate a master cylinder brace (or braces, not sure on my MC design yet) into the tower/firewall brace as well. Stiffer is better, after all! ;)

      It took two tries but here is the start of the bracing:

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      The bar that attaches to the firewall is attached to an 1/8" plate that is welded to the firewall. There will be a second bar that will come out from the same joint at the "shock tower" to run to the corner of the cowl/firewall and a third bar that will drop down to the torque box that I added. I will also be adding in metal where the gaps are around the outside of the "shock tower" and then seam welding it all up as well as adding a couple more gussets. Once the suspension is done (someday...) I will add some sheet metal to the inside of the "shock tower" as well to close it in as much as possible. I'm pretty pleased with how it came out though. Second time's the charm I guess. The only down side to the stuff I've finished on the driver's side is I have to do it all over again...
      1988 Mazda RX7 - Forged LS/T56, 76mm turbo, ProEFI, Ford 8.8 - Sold
      1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, Haltech, big brakes, updated suspension.
      2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Full bolt-ons
      2016 BMW 428iX GranSport - Stock...ish.

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Posts
      266
      Country Flag: United States
      And progress up through tonight (11/16/14):


      Note, though my welding isn't super pretty, the ugly you see is just some seam sealer to seal all the joints up. It will be finished very nicely under the hood, but honestly from the wheel well side I'm fine with "decent" as far as finishing quality goes. Most of this gets hidden behind splash shields under the fenders, so.

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      And the visible side:

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      The big empty area will get a panel made (with some bead rolled detail if I can find someone do to it for me or lend me a bead roller) after the suspension goes in so that I can validate clearance. It's not necessarily easy to see but the bars split out to the corner where the firewall, cowl and side cowl meet and then down to the torque box which is nice thick metal and tied into the subframe, floor pan and rockers. It should help spread the load out nicely and be MUCH stiffer than what came on it and worlds better than the car would have been with the shock towers cut out for the Mustang II suspension. I will be adding some kind of "strut tower" bar (not really strut towers but you get my drift) to help tie the subframe together as well as adding some tubes up front that crossover with the core support as the stock support is pretty floppy.


      I'm pretty stoked about how it all came out. The tubes are offset into the body for 3 reasons: 1. By seam welding them into the fender aprons I get even more stiffening. 2. By keeping them super tight this way I guarantee no interference with the tire/wheel since it cleared the metal before. 3. Most importantly, it looks cool in the engine bay. :P I am going to hang/align the fender and add some braces that tie into the flange that the fender mounts to. This should help keep the fender solid since the flange is a touch floppy stock. I plan to gusset the "hoop" to the subframe rails once the suspension is done also.

      Next up... do it all over again on the other side, along with the door gap and drip rail delete. Then I need to raise the transmission tunnel 2" for T56 clearance and start working my way backward on the car...

      Oh, and quick mockup with the fender and wheel (ride height will be a tiny bit higher than this, but it was close enough).

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      1988 Mazda RX7 - Forged LS/T56, 76mm turbo, ProEFI, Ford 8.8 - Sold
      1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, Haltech, big brakes, updated suspension.
      2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Full bolt-ons
      2016 BMW 428iX GranSport - Stock...ish.

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
      Posts
      15,971
      Country Flag: United States
      Nice work Blake. I am looking forward to more progress!

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Location
      SF, Bay Area
      Posts
      440
      I like the tube work. I may have to copy you!LOL
      1967 Cougar XR7, DSE, Sbf, TKO600. PM me about wheel tool rental

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Sep 2013
      Location
      sw Kansas
      Posts
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      You have plenty of skills. Please rethink the Mustang II front suspension. it looks to me from your previous build that you want things to be really good. There's way better stuff out there. Nice progress!

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Posts
      266
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by 67cougnut View Post
      I like the tube work. I may have to copy you!LOL
      Hah, by all means, go for it!

      Quote Originally Posted by wfo guy View Post
      You have plenty of skills. Please rethink the Mustang II front suspension. it looks to me from your previous build that you want things to be really good. There's way better stuff out there. Nice progress!
      What is the problem with the MII based stuff? My biggest concerns were getting the additional space in the engine bay for whatever engine choice I end up with and having something adjustable (coilovers). What recommendations do you have for front suspension systems? I have a MII style crossmember en route currently, but I'm not particularly heavily invested in it. I don't have the money to drop 5-6k on something like the DSE setup though.
      1988 Mazda RX7 - Forged LS/T56, 76mm turbo, ProEFI, Ford 8.8 - Sold
      1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, Haltech, big brakes, updated suspension.
      2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Full bolt-ons
      2016 BMW 428iX GranSport - Stock...ish.

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Sep 2013
      Location
      sw Kansas
      Posts
      1,640
      Country Flag: United States
      Having owned an original Mustang II and knowing how poor it drove started my dislike for them. The wide spread use in the street rod world has allowed several variations of a-arms and attaching points to be used. There have been enough failures to document shortcomings of the design but my main complaints are lack of travel and geometry adjustments. As to a suggestion, there are people with way more exp. than me but I would look at alternatives that allow large brakes, long travel, and geometrically advantageous attaching points. I fully understand the budget concerns. I treat toys as a business. My observation has been that any time we spend too much, we tend to be real unhappy in the end.

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
      Posts
      15,971
      Country Flag: United States
      Blake,

      I just noticed that you are chenneling David Frieburger...LOL



      I haven't used the MII suspension before, but I have to believe that in this day and age there are better options.

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Posts
      266
      Country Flag: United States
      Andrew, you're right, that photo is very Freiburger.

      As far as the MII suspension goes, here's my thoughts:

      I don't have the time to dedicate to designing a clean sheet design, so that's out immediately. My research shows that 95% of options on the market either utilize stock strut towers (not going to work for me due to space) or some MII descendant. I do know of the DSE setup which is slightly differing from MII, though it looks like a descendant of some kind also. I've looked at retrofitting a modern car setup, but again, the amount of research and likely trial/error needed to really dial it in is probably excessive for a car that is unlikely to ever see a road course.

      The crossmember I ordered is 3/16" plate and the front subframe will be plated where it attaches. I will then gusset it to the "hoop" that gussets to pretty much everything else. I will be using tubular arms and coilovers and I plan to use 13" late Mustang dual piston brakes. I expect to have around ~1500-2000 dollars in the entire setup, brakes and all, likely closer to the 1500 mark. My expectation is that by keeping everything well braced I should be able to get whatever performance is available in that suspension out of it.

      That's my idea anyway, I guess I just need some specific holes shot into it to help me understand why not to go that way. It seems to be a pretty popular swap and setups like the TCI seem to even be competitive at Auto-X and such. I really just want a car that can handle like a modern chassis; I don't expect this to out corner my MINI Cooper, but I'm hoping to get close to my old RX7 with stock suspension on it. Is this a realistic goal? Please don't take this as me being combative, as I'm not at all, I am super happy to get advice as this is all somewhat new to me. I don't really have a dog in this fight (other than my wallet) but I guess I just don't want to let "perfect" get in the way of "good enough", particularly if my intended usage (street car) is not likely to notice the improvement.

      FWIW, on the rear I am planning on the TCI torque arm setup since I like the x-brace and torque arm design.
      1988 Mazda RX7 - Forged LS/T56, 76mm turbo, ProEFI, Ford 8.8 - Sold
      1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, Haltech, big brakes, updated suspension.
      2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Full bolt-ons
      2016 BMW 428iX GranSport - Stock...ish.

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Sep 2013
      Location
      sw Kansas
      Posts
      1,640
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      I fully appreciate what you said. I respect that you want facts and not opinions. Because there is so much to be found in one's own exp., I suggest you find something with the mII front end and go for a ride. If it meets your expectations, you've found your answer. I based my suggestion upon seeing the components and workmanship on your previous projects that your desire to really improve the Mustang's suspension wouldn't be met by the mII conversion. I've owned 17 Mustangs in my life not including the lone Mustang II. 1 of which was a 67 GT350. None of them are remotely close to modern cars. With what I observe on this section of Pro-Touring, it appears to me that more people are attempting to make most of the projects as good or better than modern cars. It sounds to me like you have done lots of homework before making the decision. I wish I had a first hand Mustang conversion to tell you about that would give you something to compare to but I don't. I agree that removing the towers for space should be a first step on any good Mustang update. Great start and good luck and may the project gods smile on you.

    17. #17
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
      Posts
      15,971
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      What about the front kits from TCI? Are those Mustang II based?

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    18. #18
      Join Date
      Nov 2007
      Location
      Dayton, Ohio
      Posts
      435
      Country Flag: United States
      Roger

      69 Mustang coupe, under construction
      2011 Mustang - DD
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ang-SuperCoupe

      Freedom Of Speed!




    19. #19
      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Posts
      266
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by wfo guy View Post
      I fully appreciate what you said. I respect that you want facts and not opinions. Because there is so much to be found in one's own exp., I suggest you find something with the mII front end and go for a ride. If it meets your expectations, you've found your answer. I based my suggestion upon seeing the components and workmanship on your previous projects that your desire to really improve the Mustang's suspension wouldn't be met by the mII conversion. I've owned 17 Mustangs in my life not including the lone Mustang II. 1 of which was a 67 GT350. None of them are remotely close to modern cars. With what I observe on this section of Pro-Touring, it appears to me that more people are attempting to make most of the projects as good or better than modern cars. It sounds to me like you have done lots of homework before making the decision. I wish I had a first hand Mustang conversion to tell you about that would give you something to compare to but I don't. I agree that removing the towers for space should be a first step on any good Mustang update. Great start and good luck and may the project gods smile on you.
      Thanks! It's nice to be on a forum and have a good conversation, it's appreciated very much, as is your input on this.

      I wish I had more options to try and drive something similar to really get a good view. It is worth nothing that the setup I'm using isn't straight MII, it's just a derivative of it. Geometry is slightly updated and the coilover setup and brakes are quite different. It is still stock style MII spindles though, for sure. I will see if I can find someone with one in the area, I agree that's the best plan, for sure.

      Quote Originally Posted by andrewb70 View Post
      What about the front kits from TCI? Are those Mustang II based?

      Andrew
      I think the upper control arm design has been fiddled with quite a bit on the TCI, but it sure looks like a descendant of the MII.

      Quote Originally Posted by 69stang View Post
      That Martz setup is pretty neat. I really dig the Roadster shop setup, but I just can't justify 6k+ for it, kinda like the DSE stuff. Is it worth the money? Probably. But I'd rather put another 3k of my budget into top shelf engine management. I'm already going to be into this thing pretty deep, my wife might kill me if I put 15k into suspension/brakes, haha.

      edit: Oh, a fun fact on all of this... I've never driven a car older than ~1986. Ever. I've never ridden in an early Mustang. Shoot, I've only ridden in 2-3 Mustangs total, ever. So I have no idea how good/bad these things handled stock, LOL. I do know how floppy it was when I got it though. Wowza it was a wet noodle! I come from Mazda RX7 land (built like 20+ of those) and they are RIGID even stock. Going to be interesting, haha.
      1988 Mazda RX7 - Forged LS/T56, 76mm turbo, ProEFI, Ford 8.8 - Sold
      1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, Haltech, big brakes, updated suspension.
      2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Full bolt-ons
      2016 BMW 428iX GranSport - Stock...ish.

    20. #20
      Join Date
      May 2010
      Location
      British Columbia
      Posts
      508
      Quote Originally Posted by andrewb70 View Post
      What about the front kits from TCI? Are those Mustang II based?

      Andrew
      I've installed the TCI kit on my Cougar and according to TCI it is not Mustang II based as some of their street rod stuff is.

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