1967 Cougar build (over 700 pictures and videos)

[andrewb70]

OK. Didn't realize it was manual steering car.
I saw the guy who posted the original install in the Falcon, and several
people who have used the Saturn Vue one. Does the Toyota ECA just need like a 4000ppm speed sense wire to work?
The implementations of the Saturn version had a potentiometer used to adjust assist on the fly. My thought had been to
use an arduino to read vehicle speed and adjust resistance based on it. But setting the assist tables up initially could be
time consuming. I had been thinking about do this in my 6.0L S-10, but now I'm not sure.

Jay

I have a TCP manual rack in the car now.

Honestly, I am in unchartered territory with the speed sensing stuff. As far as I can tell, nobody has actually ever made it work. I did find this thread:

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic112422-1.aspx

From Kevin1955, he states:

"...I have the Yaris ECU and it has an input for a Vehicle Speed Sensor, All I need is a sutiable VSS that I can put in the speedometer cable to generate the pulses. I have bench tested the unit with the ECU on the bench using a Square wave generator and find the ECU has 3 levels of assist.

At 5 pulses per second it has full assist, at around 45 PPS it changes to a lower assist and mildly dampens rapid movments, at around 75 PPS it changes to a very mild assist and greatly dampens rapid movments.
The damping goes away of you jerk the wheel as in an emergency lane change."

The Dominator speedometer output is exactly that, a square wave signal. I had a buddy of mine make a spreadsheet (thanks Paul!!!) that does the math to figure out how many pulses per mile to match up with the 3 transition points that Kevink1955 mentions. So it's going to be a matter of experimenting to see what feels best.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Driving impressions.

The short answer is that as of right now, it is a mixed bag.

The good:

I can now easily steer the car with one hand, where this was absolutely impossible before. Driving through a parking lot is absolutely effortless. Parking is a simple one handed maneuver, etc...

The bad:

With the fixed level of assist, it is overly boosted at any sort of speed above 30mph. The return to center is pretty bad. Before the EPS the steering wheel would snap to center, almost violently. I literally used to hang on to the wheel so it wouldn't return to center too quickly. Now, I have to sort of steer it back to straight.

At highway speed the on center feel is just mush. Before, small movements of the steering wheel were met with quite a bit of resistance as the wheels wanted to go straight. Now, small movements of the steering wheel are met with almost zero resistance and it doesn't want to snap straight again. So I found myself constantly having to steer to keep the car moving straight. This is annoying.

I am hoping that once I implement the speed input from the Dominator that all the bad stuff improves.

Andrew

[langleylad]

On a side note , how has your sleep been affected by this project ?. Speaking for myself . I fall asleep fast but if I wake up in the middle of the night , whatever I'm working on pops into my mind and I can't fall asleep . I'm sure you've had a lot of sleepless nights ! lol

[AU Doc]

The hookers and blow have to be out of the house by tomorrow!


Andrew

Well, there went the budget!!

[JayinMI]

Many vehicles use 4000ppm (pulse per mile). It's a common scale that I see alot when installing GPS navigation.
All VSS signals are square waves. It's like binary. On or off. Might get you in the ballpark. My S10 has manual steering, and
I built my own custom steering column (S10 bottom, Buick Lucerne top with a Cobalt LT leather steering wheel with stereo controls)
and the wheel is a little smaller. If you figure out the speed sense side of it, that would certainly go a long way toward me considering adapting it. My donor truck had Hydroboost, and I was going to use it, but my GF's dad Sierra has it and it is horrible.

Jay

- - - Updated - - -

Well, there went the budget!!

Andrew seems like a smart guy. I'm sure they were included in the budget.

Jay

[andrewb70]

I won't bore everyone with the details, but I have it working now so the level of assist varies based on speed. With the limited driving that I did today (it was raining very hard) it seems a lot better! Once I get more miles on it, I will post more driving impressions.

Andrew

[ryeguy2006a]

Very cool project Andrew, thanks for paving the way! It would be interesting to know what VSS signal that the EPS needs. If it was in fact the 4000 ppm it would be the same as the LS stuff which would lead to a mostly plug and play for the electrical side of things.

[andrewb70]

Very cool project Andrew, thanks for paving the way! It would be interesting to know what VSS signal that the EPS needs. If it was in fact the 4000 ppm it would be the same as the LS stuff which would lead to a mostly plug and play for the electrical side of things.

There is no question that the Toyota Yaris ECU is looking for a square wave signal. The actual ppm that it is expecting is not really relevant, because in custom installations you may want the different levels of assist to happen at different speeds than it did in a stock Yaris. What is more important is having the ability to change the ppm signal that goes to the Yaris ECU, and by doing so, altering the speed at which the three levels of assist are triggered.

Dakota Digital makes a couple of boxes that might work to alter the stock GM 4000ppm signal to something else. They also make a GPS receiver that outputs a square or sine wave form that is programmable as to the ppm output.

DCE offers their Microsteer system and it packs a lot of features that are desirable in custom applications and make the tuning aspect a lot easier.

http://www.dcemotorsport.com/Home/EP...eb.pdf&site=us

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Alright. Awesome news. I wanted to temporarily try the pwm+ trigger to turn on the steering ECU. I am able to configure the output on the Dominator all in software. So I simply reprogrammed the original speedometer output and created the PWM+ output and assigned it to the same pin as the speedometer output (the speedometer output had to be virtually unpinned from that location). Anyway...

I set the frequency to 1000Hz and a duty cycle of 50%, so half the pulse is on and half the pulse is off, very much like a speedometer signal. Turned the ignition off, turned the ignition back on, and immediately had power assist. The diodes will be here tomorrow so I will add the second wire to the steering ECU speedometer input. The result should be having immediate PS as soon as the ignition is turned on and there after, it will receive the speedometer signal and operate by changing the level of assist based on speed.

Andrew

[langleylad]

One more time but in English please ! lol . I don't understand much of this terminology but I'm glad it seems to be working out for you Andrew . Good job .

Mike

[JayinMI]

Alright. Awesome news. I wanted to temporarily try the pwm+ trigger to turn on the steering ECU. I am able to configure the output on the Dominator all in software. So I simply reprogrammed the original speedometer output and created the PWM+ output and assigned it to the same pin as the speedometer output (the speedometer output had to be virtually unpinned from that location). Anyway...

I set the frequency to 1000Hz and a duty cycle of 50%, so half the pulse is on and half the pulse is off, very much like a speedometer signal. Turned the ignition off, turned the ignition back on, and immediately had power assist. The diodes will be here tomorrow so I will add the second wire to the steering ECU speedometer input. The result should be having immediate PS as soon as the ignition is turned on and there after, it will receive the speedometer signal and operate by changing the level of assist based on speed.

Andrew

At first I was "Why not just wire it to Ignition directly?" But then I read it again. So, if I understand it right (and this might help Mike) the output from the Holley ECU comes on immediately when the ECU comes on and sends a signal to the steering ECU so that it thinks it is moving slowly to initiate power steering right away at a level that works with a larger car that isn't moving? (Most assist)?

Jay

[andrewb70]

At first I was "Why not just wire it to Ignition directly?" But then I read it again. So, if I understand it right (and this might help Mike) the output from the Holley ECU comes on immediately when the ECU comes on and sends a signal to the steering ECU so that it thinks it is moving slowly to initiate power steering right away at a level that works with a larger car that isn't moving? (Most assist)?

Jay

Correct....but the plot thickens....

I have been digging deeper into the ins and outs of the Toyota EPAS system. One thing that I ran across is that the Toyota systems have a "torque sensor zero point calibration" that must be performed in case of a wheel re-alignment or if the motor assembly is replaced. This is described well here (toward the bottom of the page):

https://www.autoserviceprofessional....teering?Page=3

As far as I have seen, nobody has talked about this when installing the Toyota gear into older vehicles. This seems like a very important procedure and the fact that nobody is doing it, leads me to believe that it is partially (if not fully) to blame for the lack of centering that I (and others) are experiencing with the system.

Another thing that I found out, and this is a bit confusing, is that apparently, the Yaris ECU doesn't actually go into full speed assist mode unless it sees an RPM signal come across the CAN bus. This is confusing to me because I swear that my system does change the level of assist based on speed, but I have no concrete way to verify this, except for how it "feels" to drive. This has also been tested by others on the bench by connecting a square wave generator to the Yaris ECU speed input (pin 5) and reporting variability in assist level based on altering the pulsing frequency.

The information found here is invaluable (post #23):
http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/thr...steering/page2

I have been in email contact with the original poster (his name is Jared) of that thread. Here is a more complete pin-out for the Yaris steering ECU:



This is a wiring diagram that Jared put together.



Jared solved the CAN signal issue by using and custom programming the CANdo Auto Module:
http://www.cananalyser.co.uk/candoauto.html

Here is an excerpt from his post on the Toyota forum:

"I going to jump into technical which will make much more sense once you research the CAN system. I was able to find the hex decimal code for engine RPM is 2C4 wheel speed is either 0B0 or 0B2. Since my setup has a non ABS eps ecu has an analog wheel speed signal (input). I only needed the engine RPM on the CAN network so i will only go over how I programed the Cando for this. The Cando has 2 analog inputs that can be programed to then transmit programable CAN data. It also can have ten static data points programed and continually repeated. When you get the software open there are four tabs. "Input view", "Input setup", "CAN transmit" and "CAN setup" first off we need to go to "CAN setup" and change the setting to 500kps to match the network speed of the CAN system. Then back to the tab "CAN transmit". Now as I said earlier the hex for RPM is 2C4. The data length is 11 bit. The dlc is 8. The information I used was ramdomly picked after much trial and error. Almost 3 pages of codes I tried. I could set the RPM in connect my scan tool and see the RPM but still no assist. After much frustration I finally realised that it was a setting I had wrong. It was how often I had it repetting the message. The end result looked something like this 2C4 8 06 8A 00 19 00 00 92 09 Repeat rate 20 ms(milliseconds). All this done and turned the car on and immediate assist. I still have not been able to drive the car and see if it feels bettter. Still working on some idle issues with the engine. I could however tell the assist was greater. Last thing to work on is connecting the CAN wiring to the DLC so i can see about changing the setting for the assist level at idle."

What makes this more frustrating for me is that the Holley Dominator does use CAN communication. This is used for communication with Racepak and the Holley digital displays. The frustrating part is that the Holley CAN protocol is proprietary, so the odds of the Yaris steering computer "understanding" the Holley data packets are nil.

Before I go down the same path as Jared, I need to have a conversation with DCE. Their Microsteer ECU is speed sensitive. The only question remains is if the Microsteer ECU is compatible with the Toyota motor. If it is compatible, then I am inclined to ditch the Toyota ECU and simplify this ordeal by spending money on the Microsteer ECU instead of buying the CANdo box. I also need to find out how DCE handles the torque sensor center point calibration, as this seems rather important for obtaining satisfactory on-center feel and return.

I am open to thoughts and suggestions!!!

Andrew

[JayinMI]

Ouch! That thing is almost $300?! I wonder what it offers over an Arduino (or equivalent) with a Can Bus shield? I could probably buy both of those for around $50 other than the fact that someone already wrote the software for it.

I'd be curious if @Digitalsolo or PeteS160 on LS1tech could chime in about that. Those guys are certainly better versed than I am with data bus systems.

Jay

[OLDFLM]

Andrew, once you get this thing figured out (which I know you will)... would you be able to install a 3-way switch of some sort in order to be able to select and/or adjust the amount of steering assist?

Something like "Normal" "Street" "Competition" which would adjust the amount of assist to "preset" levels? Just wondering out loud as I know the OEMs have this in cars like the new Mustangs, etc.

[andrewb70]

Andrew, once you get this thing figured out (which I know you will)... would you be able to install a 3-way switch of some sort in order to be able to select and/or adjust the amount of steering assist?

Something like "Normal" "Street" "Competition" which would adjust the amount of assist to "preset" levels? Just wondering out loud as I know the OEMs have this in cars like the new Mustangs, etc.

I honestly don't think that is possible, at least not with the parts that I am working with. What you're asking to do is to have 3 different "assist" maps that can be initiated at any given time. The Yaris service manual makes mention is loading different maps into the ECU, but again, a Yaris is not exactly a Mustang or a Camaro.

If I can get this stuff working as it did in a stock Yaris, I would be happy at this point.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Well...got in touch with Blake (DigitalSolo). We know each other back from our RX7 days.

We discussed what I am looking to do and he feels confident that he has a nice little box that will work for me.



The ultimate goals are:

1. Simulate an RPM signal over CAN so the steering ECU thinks the engine is running.
2. Properly terminate the CAN network so the steering ECU thinks there is normal communication with the engine ECM.
3. Make all the connections between the steering ECU and CAN to the DLC3 (OBDII) connector.
4. Attach a Toyota scanner and see if the steering ECU is throwing any codes (I am sure it is).
5. Clear codes (this is important because the torque sensor zero point calibration will not be performed when there are codes).
6. Perform torque sensor zero point calibration (hopefully this helps with return to center).
7. Varify that the steering ECU is seeing vehicle speed (this will show up on the scanner).
8. Enjoy EPAS to its fullest glory.

Andrew

[JayinMI]

So, in a nutshell:

Install EPAS

Talk to Blake

Profit?

Lol. I'll be curious how this plays out.

Good luck!

Jay

[andrewb70]

So, in a nutshell:

Install EPAS

Talk to Blake

Profit?

Lol. I'll be curious how this plays out.

Good luck!

Jay

If there are profits to be had, I will direct them all to Blake. He can sell these boxes if people want to go to all this trouble. I think most people aren't as picky as I am and will just use the Toyota gear in "failsafe" mode.

Andrew

[trapin]

If you hang out with us a little more, you can be up to date.

You missed the fact that I am now in Alabama....LOL

Andrew

I'll be hanging out a lot more now. I need to keep my eye on you.

[andrewb70]

I'll be hanging out a lot more now. I need to keep my eye on you.

You need to be hanging out in your garage and finishing your Camaro! :-)

I hope that everyone had a great Thanksgiving Holiday. My wife and I traveled to Wisconsin to visit her family, and we made it out just in time to miss the snow.

I am learning way more than I wanted about CAN, Arduino, RasberryPies, and all manner of other electronic gizmos, than I really planned on with this electronic steering business. However, I feel like I have to make the system work as it was intended by Toyota in order to get the most out of it and to be able to diagnose it in the future should something fail.

This afternoon I popped into the local junk yard to track down an OBDII connector (or two). I quickly realized that although the connectors are universal in terms of the mating portion, various manufacturers use different connector bodies and terminals. After I realized this, I started looking for the same make of car. It just so happened that I had relatively easy access to a few Nissans and they graciously offered their connectors in the form of a OBDII bouquet.



I only need one connector, but I figured it was a good idea to have extra wires and terminals, just in case.

I also managed to secure reliable help with the CANBUS emulator (that's what I am calling it). It seems that my buddy Blake (DigitalSolo....more like DigitalJedy) has been making these little boxes for his own projects. I told him what the box needed to do and he said "no problem." He builds these himself and installs them in really robust enclosures that are suited for a car environment.



The heart of it is an Arduino Nano (whateverthef**kthatis), and some other electronic bits. The header side uses Molex connectors that I will source from Mouser and make the appropriate harness.



I am pretty excited to get this rolling further along. Stay tuned for more soon!

Andrew