Salesguys 1967 firebird 400 Build Thread

[salesguy01]

I'll know which one to stay away from now! haha

With all the suspension modifications, did your rubbing issues go away?

So When I first Got the Car and put the 17's on the tires rubbed because it was orginal springs and old ass Monroe shocks.
Then changed out to the Hotchkis springs and shocks didn't change alignment so I was really at like 0 Camber.
After putting the Tube upper and lower im at like -1.5 Camber so that brings the top of the tires in, as well as when it compresses it arcs inward.



To answer the question, yes I don't cringe when there is a Dip or bump in the road!

[Mr Nick]

I have a 12.7:1 box that was rebuilt by Chip at Power Steering Services, it's nice and works fine but still has that dead spot on center that the originals are known for. It's also way over assisted, but I'm told the Oldsmobile's were that way, but I wasn't alive back then so I can't confirm. I plan on selling it and getting a Lee box with the "rack and pinion" valving.

[Josue]

So When I first Got the Car and put the 17's on the tires rubbed because it was orginal springs and old ass Monroe shocks.
Then changed out to the Hotchkis springs and shocks didn't change alignment so I was really at like 0 Camber.
After putting the Tube upper and lower im at like -1.5 Camber so that brings the top of the tires in, as well as when it compresses it arcs inward.

To answer the question, yes I don't cringe when there is a Dip or bump in the road!

Great news! I wasn't sure how to go about changing things up on my '68. Wheels first, then suspension? Suspension first, then see where it sits and order wheels accordingly? I'd hate to spend that much on a set of wheels and have them completely not work for my new setup!

How about the alignment issues? Get that sorted out too? I worry about all the suspension changes to be made to these cars, I've dealt with lowered vehicles in the past and tire wear issues.

I have a 12.7:1 box that was rebuilt by Chip at Power Steering Services, it's nice and works fine but still has that dead spot on center that the originals are known for. It's also way over assisted, but I'm told the Oldsmobile's were that way, but I wasn't alive back then so I can't confirm. I plan on selling it and getting a Lee box with the "rack and pinion" valving.

Never heard of this "dead spot", can you describe it?

Also, there's talk on the Pontiac forums about Lee's closing due to retirement. Someone tried to place an order and that's what the voicemail said.

[regal454]

Gxcdxsx

[Mr Nick]

The dead spot is a lack of response for the first few degrees (maybe 10-15* either direction) while driving straight. I can be running down the highway and turn the wheel back n forth quickly within this range, and almost nothing happens. Rest of my suspension is a SC&C Stage 2 Plus kit, 18" wheels, sway bars, Ride Tech shocks, etc...

I'm told this was because the tires used on these cars from the factory couldn't handle the quick input, so the dead spot wasn't very noticeable because they handled like crap to begin with. Upgrade your suspension and tires, and the factory gear box becomes the next "weak spot."

I see that Marcus at SC&C no longer uses Lee boxes, and has switched to Turn One. http://www.turnone-steering.com/

[RMMiller]

Love the car! We just picked up a 67 and like you, it's her car! Ours has the same radiator with some aftermarket fans but seeing the ones you used, I'll be on the hunt for a set. Her car runs about 210 around town as well, I was prepared for that though, my 68 GTO I used to have would never run below 200 no matter what I did to it.

ITS "GULSTRAND" not gulf, With most modern tubular control arms you wont need to do the "gulstrand mod" because the arms are designed to compensate.

I have never heard of that mod before other than the Ford "Shelby drop" which is basically the same idea. I know your post is old but since nobody else called you on it, it's actually "Guldstrand". Sorry, I couldn't resist!

[Josue]

The dead spot is a lack of response for the first few degrees (maybe 10-15* either direction) while driving straight. I can be running down the highway and turn the wheel back n forth quickly within this range, and almost nothing happens. Rest of my suspension is a SC&C Stage 2 Plus kit, 18" wheels, sway bars, Ride Tech shocks, etc...

I'm told this was because the tires used on these cars from the factory couldn't handle the quick input, so the dead spot wasn't very noticeable because they handled like crap to begin with. Upgrade your suspension and tires, and the factory gear box becomes the next "weak spot."

I see that Marcus at SC&C no longer uses Lee boxes, and has switched to Turn One. http://www.turnone-steering.com/

Ah! That's exactly what I'm trying to get rid of...I HATE being able to go down the road, turning the wheel 2 inches either way while the car tracks straight!

[salesguy01]

Ah! That's exactly what I'm trying to get rid of...I HATE being able to go down the road, turning the wheel 2 inches either way while the car tracks straight!

Honestly I don't think you can get rid of the Dead spot! I have went through completely the front suspension and Everything is Brand new. The Box is AGR springs and shocks are Hotchkis, And all moog Joints.
My Belief is the Play is in the RAG JOINT... I have a new one of those too of course. Again like was said above these cars were designed with that play. Only thought is maybe a solid rag joint? but then I hear your hands will be numb from road vibrations.. seems like no win :(

[Josue]

Haha....I know, right! I was browsing a thread on here the other day, someone was asking if rack and pinions are worth it or not. I always thought they'd be the end all, be all of modern steering on an old muscle car, since every car on the road from the mid 90's and up has R&P. But, the consensus was they're really not worth it....I was surprised!

I'm going to try an inexpensive route. After talking to some on the pontiac forums, I'm going to try a 92 Camaro, 2.5 turn lock to lock, box. Also a new 92 Camaro rag joint, and fittings that adapt my stock lines to the new box. I have all the parts, just lost some of my mojo on the car since the season's winding down here in Northeast Ohio. haha

[rohrt]

Honestly I don't think you can get rid of the Dead spot! I have went through completely the front suspension and Everything is Brand new. The Box is AGR springs and shocks are Hotchkis, And all moog Joints.
My Belief is the Play is in the RAG JOINT... I have a new one of those too of course. Again like was said above these cars were designed with that play. Only thought is maybe a solid rag joint? but then I hear your hands will be numb from road vibrations.. seems like no win :(

That is interesting stuff on the dead spot. I have it too with my box. every thing is new and tight. no play in the rag joint either.

I tried tightening up the screw on the steering box with no luck too.

[salesguy01]

Now We Are running GOOD!!!!!!!!

I did the Tanks Inc. Fuel Tank with the Included Walbro Sump fuel pump etc...

Then Used the Original Feed line as a Return Line. Ran EFI Hose for the Feed line.

Was very easy install and Love being able to fine Tune.

For Sure recommend the FITECH EFI!

[rohrt]

Now We Are running GOOD!!!!!!!!

I did the Tanks Inc. Fuel Tank with the Included Walbro Sump fuel pump etc...

Then Used the Original Feed line as a Return Line. Ran EFI Hose for the Feed line.

Was very easy install and Love being able to fine Tune.

For Sure recommend the FITECH EFI!

I'm really thinking about going the same way with a FiTech the same way with my bird.

What carb were you running before?

Can you tell me more about the change?

[RMMiller]

I'm in the same boat, heard about FITech on the Maverick forums and have every intention of putting it on the bird before spring. Glad to hear you like it, every good review solidifies mt decision.

[Josue]

Awesome install!!

Each day that passes, is a day closer to deciding to pull the trigger on this system. Is the drivability just as they say? Thing fires right up like new each time?

[Josue]

Just bought a used set of US Mag Bandits...what lug nuts did you go with for yours? The ones that we've had on the car for 20 years are too big. That, or I need a thinner walled socket to fit inside the lug holes on the wheels.

There really isn't much stud sticking through the wheels to begin with though, so I'm guessing I should just do a set of new studs and lugs all the way around, since I'm going to be doing a new rear axle and disc brake swap by spring.

[salesguy01]

Just bought a used set of US Mag Bandits...what lug nuts did you go with for yours? The ones that we've had on the car for 20 years are too big. That, or I need a thinner walled socket to fit inside the lug holes on the wheels.

There really isn't much stud sticking through the wheels to begin with though, so I'm guessing I should just do a set of new studs and lugs all the way around, since I'm going to be doing a new rear axle and disc brake swap by spring.

Yes you may need a thin wall socket. My nugs are different on the front and rear since I have the Hotchkis front, which has bigger studs.

[Josue]

I found a thin wall socket that works good enough. It still rubs on the wheels a little bit, but it'll have to do. I'm not going to run those tuner lugs that come in different colors and you need a key for every lug!

[salesguy01]

Running Great the Only thing I have done really in the last 4 years is Change out the Cam. Decided to go with a Comp Cam XE274H which has a nice little lope with he 230/236 duration. I wanted something that still had great vacuum, but allowed the big cubes to breath more.