Salesguys 1967 firebird 400 Build Thread

[Buryingthesun]

While you're changing out the front springs/shocks, look into updating the arms as well, at least the upper arms. Either change them out or do the gulfstrand mod. Look up "gulfstrand mod" online for the why and the how to's.

Good call on the rear sway bar. You can't install the bar anyway due the traction bars in the way.

ITS "GULSTRAND" not gulf, With most modern tubular control arms you wont need to do the "gulstrand mod" because the arms are designed to compensate.

[captainofiron]

Just make sure you get it for a big block car. Should work well with the poncho motor.

if I remember right there is about a 150lb difference between a Poncho and a BBC, that is quite a bit in terms of spring coefficients. To the OP, I would research more about the springs, you dont want the car to ride like its got aluminum blocks instead of springs

[salesguy01]

I went with the Small Block Springs as that what tech At hotchkis said. Im hoping they did enough of them to know, BUT If it rides like crap they will get an earfull ..

Also the rear sway bar would not only have to drill into the sheet metal behind the rear seat you I would have to grind off the Factory Traction Bar Mount

I didnt get the tubular uppers yet. Hopefully I can hold off on those for a while.
Will for NOT be doing the gulstrand mod.

[salesguy01]

In the meantime I am upgrading the Stock Radiator for A Champion. Just got it in today. This is the one I went with.

1967-1969 CAMARO BIG BLOCK CHAMPION 4 ROW CORE ALL ALUMINUM RADIATOR MC370
CORE DIMENSIONS 17"(H) X 23"(W)
OVERALL DIMENSIONS 19 1/4"(H) X 30 1/4"(W)
HOSE LOCATIONS IN-DRIVER / OUT-PASS
HOSE FITTINGS IN-1 1/2" OUT-1 3/4"

[juggernaut]

I went with the Small Block Springs as that what tech At hotchkis said. Im hoping they did enough of them to know, BUT If it rides like crap they will get an earfull ..

Also the rear sway bar would not only have to drill into the sheet metal behind the rear seat you I would have to grind off the Factory Traction Bar Mount

.

I installed a TVS kit in my camaro. The rear sway bar drilling/mounting is pretty straight forward; Though, I did not have factory traction bar mounts to cut off. Here's a pic of the interior after install. I can not say the TVS kit improves my lap time but, I can say it improves my "holy **** I'm about to roll my car"!

[Z06vet]

I'm surprised they suggested the small block springs. I use the big block springs on pontiac with iron heads. Here's a pic of my 67 bird with small block springs. It has an aluminum LS1 motor in it. You may need spring spacers or swap to BB springs. Each car is different. Mine does have 18" wheels so you may have slightly more room w 17" and 225 tire.

[rickpaw]

ITS "GULSTRAND" not gulf, With most modern tubular control arms you wont need to do the "gulstrand mod" because the arms are designed to compensate.

I stand corrected.

I'm surprised they suggested the small block springs. I use the big block springs on pontiac with iron heads. Here's a pic of my 67 bird with small block springs. It has an aluminum LS1 motor in it. You may need spring spacers or swap to BB springs. Each car is different. Mine does have 18" wheels so you may have slightly more room w 17" and 225 tire.

I have Hotchkis small block springs in my 67. With the old iron headed Pontiac engine, the front tires would occasional rub on the inner fenders if I go over dips in the road too fast. When I did the 5.3 swap, the tires rubbings were gone. The lighter 5.3 definitely helped.

Here's a picture of the car with the old Pontiac engine. The ride height is similar to z06vert's red Firebird.

[captainofiron]

whenever the time comes to do front coils, I think Im going with Global west springs for my Pontiac "medium" (haha) blocked car

so far Global is one of the few places that has a specific spring selection for F-bodies with Pontiac V-8s. Most of the others just have the same part number for SBC F-body

[salesguy01]

It is the 4 core version


The original came out very easy, only issue was the lower trans line was seated FIRMLY in the radiator. After some persuasion it came out.





Original Radiator (not throwing it away ha!) Im guessing it could be recored? didnt leak, but sure it had some repairs in the last 47 years.

[salesguy01]

ALMOST done the Rear new Springs and Shocks with the Hotchkis TVS minus Rear sway.

PAIN IN THE ASS!!!!!!!

by myself in the garage with jackstands. No pics of the progress, but a few notes.
Drilling the 5/8th holes for the new u-bolts = PITA!
Removing the old frame bushings = PITA

I still have to drill the shock bottom shock mounts since the Shock bolts are a tad bigger than factory hole.

Front springs dont come in until next week so then I will tackle the front sway bar, shocks, and springs then.

[lucky13firebird]

i myself got the hotchkis big block springs. it never rubs with the 255mm tires on 18" wheels. rides really firm but I like that, i also got a hellwig 1 1/4 front sway and have 5 leaf springs on the rear and lakewood traction bars. Car stays glued to the road with the iron headed 461 stroker. no issues.

your car being an ac car with smaller tires and carpet and such would prob work out better with the small block springs you got. smoother ride, you know? cause every time i hit a road seam at 90 mph the whole car jars pretty hard but NEVER bottoms out either so its just a matter of whats more important i guess.

[salesguy01]

So I was having some issues getting a little hot. Mainly idle and stop and go. Would get up to about 220. Well I had parts from a 2000 Formula I parted out. And remembered I had LS1 Fans!

This so far was true cheapest and best Mod!

Test Fitting


Painted and wired up.

[Lowered907]

Looks good! What kind of wrench is that in the picture?

Evap Installed



Tightened all screws and used black RTV to seal around the case.

Next On to the Condenser install.
Very straightforward. Simply remove the kidney pans and test fit the bracket. Two small holes and secure with Tek Screws that are supplied.



See easy.

Next was attaching the drier.

One thing I learned about the A/C stuff is use the supplied gaskets and mineral oil liberally.





The two wires are the pressure switch. On my 67 the green wire goes to one of the white ones then the other white goes to the compressor, just makes a circuit.

Time to mount the Compressor. This caused me the most pain. I watched a video on youtube of a guy that has a 68 and did the compressor install and the belt he used would simply not work with my kit. Finally just said screw it and went with what the instructions recommend which was a 60 inch belt. Still to long the magic was 59.5 for me.

Also what toms poncho video on youtube did get right was the bracket says to use two spacers between the block/head and the mounting plate for compressor. However as tomsponcho pointed out this makes the compressor to forward and belt hits the pully. Anyway got it perfect now.



you can see it mounted in the top left.

So ran all the A/C lines. all hook up fine with some contortion. Note that two lines need to have the fittings crimped. Have to measure it out, mark it, then either send the hoses back to classic air for them to crimp for free or find someone local. Luckily after a few calls I found a Hydraulic hose shop about 20 mins away. He said now problem. went there and for a whole $8 he crimped them for me. I gave him a $20 as I was happy to get them done with no wait! Big hydraulic press to crimp them and was super legit.

Here it is with the POA Valve as well.


I think Im ready to get it charged!!!!!!

[salesguy01]

I picked those Up at Sears, They are Ratchet Wrenches, but you can adjust the position of the box end to get in some pretty tight spots. Only thing I don't like about them is they are thicker than my other set of slimmer ratchet wrenches

[Lowered907]

Thanks. Keep up the good work

[captainofiron]

So I was having some issues getting a little hot. Mainly idle and stop and go. Would get up to about 220. Well I had parts from a 2000 Formula I parted out. And remembered I had LS1 Fans!

This so far was true cheapest and best Mod!

Test Fitting


Painted and wired up.

that looks really good, OEM

[salesguy01]

WELLLLL. After plenty discussion with others and time for reflection. I think the route im going to leave the Poncho motor in. My good friend said it right that now days you almost expect to see a LS motor in these classics at car shows. When you walk up and see a real Poncho motor you actually get taken back.

My current project is a 4l60E to be built and Swap. Then going to do EFI, then later down the road take the motor out to stroke & bore.

So it will still have the heart and the look of factory just with a flare of modern.

[salesguy01]

Phew.... Talk About some $$$$$$... All for the best though. I want this engine to last forever and I think the Parts from Butler Will do just that.

Here is what UPS Freight delivered just last week.





Everything Packed Solid. No Movement on the Crate and condition was just as it left Tennessee.

Here are a few Pics of the Block. It is a 71 400 block bored out to 4.180 and will have a stroke of 4.25
Prepped and painted!











So Over the Weekend I took my time and got started on the bottom end.



Plastigauge is somewhat controversial, but I did it anyway. On my spec sheet from Butler listed the main bearing clearances i just wanted to verify



Very Nice ARP Studs that I torqued using the ARP Lube to Spec

I also Did something that may be overboard, but should be done with a blueprint. Checked Crank Endplay
It was also in Spec




Then I spend some time with the Pistons and Connecting rods. Much research went into making sure They were oriented the correct way. You will see others have made a boo boo and put the rods on backwards. Essentially the Chamfered ends ride against the Crank fillet (I think that what they call it).

I had to take a couple of pistons apart since I had them incorrect. I admit it! Also I BROKE!! two rings and had to order two single piston sets since they dont sell the rings individually.

These Are Ross Forged Pistons with Forged H Beam Rods. These Rods are BIG!





Slid them in and Torqued to Spec with the Correct Orientation of Rods and Pistons making Eyebrows

[captainofiron]

Now thats my kind of UPS delivery!!!

[salesguy01]

Wow, So its been a little bit. Got quite a few things done, but I will start where I left off.

Finished up the short block and all was good!

Put on Edelbrock aluminum 87cc Heads (out the box) , along with an edelbrock performer intake.
High Flow fuel pump. (you have to notch the bottom to clear the timing cover) I didnt do that and had to take it off after I discovered an oil leak.

Here it is on the stand.