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    Thread: 70 Formula 535

    1. #21
      Join Date
      Jul 2013
      Location
      N. Scottsdale
      Posts
      376
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by tazzz25906112 View Post
      The DSE stuff will add a lot to the mix,,, however you can chose other frame connectors that will kinda work (again not as a good,, but will work)... This all said with a 535ci motor I think you're going to really want the DSE offering as that car will twist like crazy with that motor built effectively.. The Aluminum body bushing are pretty much a need to have issue here too... I use Sparco 505's in my cars and I find them very good and easy to install BTW... You may want to consider a blind 6 point cage in the car as That motor is going to put down some insane torque...
      Thank you very much for the advice…I'll stick with the DSE SFCs and use solid mounts. This is my first PT build, so I'm working through the various decision points step by step.



      Would a 4 point roll bar (something like what DSE offers with a removable cross brace) help enough with the twisting? It's obviously a compromise solution, but the car will be 95% street driven and I want to keep the back seats.


    2. #22
      Join Date
      Feb 2011
      Location
      dallas, tx
      Posts
      1,729
      Country Flag: United States
      you can install the subframe connectors and have them bolt to the subframe. You do not have to weld the connectors to the subframe. Im not.


      http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=32552

    3. #23
      Join Date
      Jul 2013
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      N. Scottsdale
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      376
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      Quote Originally Posted by icemanrd19 View Post
      you can install the subframe connectors and have them bolt to the subframe. You do not have to weld the connectors to the subframe. Im not.


      http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=32552
      Seems like a great solution, thanks!

    4. #24
      Join Date
      Aug 2008
      Location
      Charleston, SC
      Posts
      354
      Not trying to hi-jack your thread so I'll just post this one quick post. I'm just in the last stages of my 535 build with the same DSE setup in the rear and a T56. Mine is in a late 70s 2nd gen Trans Am but I used a 74 full floor pan so the install will pretty much match what you are doing. Feel free to ask any questions.

      The Quadra-Link is being installed at this moment. One side is done and the other is under way. I put in DSE tubs and subframe connectors early on in the build. Used DSE's Ford 9" rear as well.

      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...45#post1087945

    5. #25
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      Jul 2013
      Location
      N. Scottsdale
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      376
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      Quote Originally Posted by Doug1 View Post
      Not trying to hi-jack your thread so I'll just post this one quick post. I'm just in the last stages of my 535 build with the same DSE setup in the rear and a T56. Mine is in a late 70s 2nd gen Trans Am but I used a 74 full floor pan so the install will pretty much match what you are doing. Feel free to ask any questions.

      The Quadra-Link is being installed at this moment. One side is one and the other is under way. I put in DSE tubs and subframe connectors early on in the build. Used DSE's Ford 9" rear as well.

      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...45#post1087945
      I just read through your thread…looking forward to seeing how your car progresses. It's good to see someone heading down more or less the same path ahead of me. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions for you. I've been asking questions here, but given the number of responses, I guess the norm on this forum is to post questions in the appropriate tech section…either way, expect to hear from me. Thanks in advance for your help.

      The work on the Quadra-Link is started. It's a little more involved than I had anticipated. Hopefully, the outcome will be worth it.

      Once the Quadra-Link fabrication is done, the plan is to put the car on a cart and send it back to the blaster. It's sitting on a frame rack at the moment. The shop where I had it previously shot it with self-etch and then lacquer primer and then let it sit in the rain during monsoon season. The guy doing the body and fab work now wouldn't touch the car unless I agreed to have it redone. He's been in the restoration business a long time--very good reputation, but he hasn't done a pro-touring car, so we're working through issues together. It's been fun so far.

    6. #26
      Join Date
      Aug 2008
      Location
      Charleston, SC
      Posts
      354
      Don't let me get started on painter issues... You would not believe some of the stuff I have dealt with in the last 3-4 years including one painter stealing one of my cars and having it crushed for drug money. It turned out he had several cars crushed at the same time so he got arrested, got out on bail a few weeks later and OD'd the very same day he made bail. That's the worst story I have but I have plenty of other's close behind. So I'm glad you have a reputable shop on yours. I finally found a good painter but it took a while, since most body shops aren't set up to do these sorts of cars from a business perspective. They take too much time and there is not enough profit unless they charge a small fortune for the work. Most are set up for insurance work and can't take in a long term project. Once you find a go to body guy, don't use anybody else! They are worth their weight in gold and are almost as rare as a Unicorn! Unlike the Unicorn, they actually do exist but in infinitesimally small numbers.

      I had self etch on the last couple of cars I had blasted and had to end up having them re-blasted and going back with straight 2K epoxy primer. The self etch kept bleeding through the primer, even though both were made by the same company as part of a system. We even tried 2K primer as a last result and it still bled through. Unfortunately, I had several cars all blasted and primed at the same time so I also had to have them all blasted a second time and recoated. I threw away at least $1K just in primer on those cars. I'll doubt I will ever use self etch again. The blaster said he had used SEM self-etch on cars for many years with no issues but ended up having to redo several after mine. He doesn't use it anymore. Even the factory rep that came out was stumped. So by now, I have seen just about every way to get sideways in a project, mostly because I have personally experienced them. lol.

      I too found that the Quadra-Link was more involved than I initially thought, and I had looked up every 2nd gen build thread I could with one and gone through the directions. Didn't look beyond my skillset so I was going to upgrade my welder and go to it. The good news for me was that after planning on doing it myself, the fabricator had a short break in his schedule and said he would fit it in since he could tell I wasn't that comfortable welding such critical parts. So I offered to go ahead and make all the cuts via the templates and tack the parts in and let him burn them in. He politely declined and said he would only do it if he made the cuts which turned out to be a good call. He is an excellent fabricator and so I figured he have it knocked in a day or so, since the car already had tubs and sub-frame connectors done. It turns out that the templates are close but not exact so on the second frame rail, he is making the cuts smaller than the templates and grinding to fit the close-outs. He had to add a little metal back on one edge and wasn't real happy about the template not being exact. This guy fabricated fire trucks for a living for many years and has always done race car chassis builds on the side so he is pretty exacting and knows his stuff. With fire trucks they have to be able to fabricate every part so he can work magic with metal. In hindsight it would not have been good if I had gotten under there and just hacked everything off according to the templates and then attempted to place the close-outs. He was smart enough to do one spot at a time all the way from start to finish. So I finally avoided at least ONE minor catastrophe in a build for a change. :-)

      PM me when you run into a problem or have any questions and I'll be glad to help.

    7. #27
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      Jul 2013
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      N. Scottsdale
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      Tubs are in and work on the Quadra Link is under way. Should be done next week, and then off to the blaster again. As you can see in the photos, we decided to go with fresh sheet metal rather than trying to straighten out the collision damage to the quarters and tail panel. To my amazement, there was absolutely no hidden rust in the inner quarter structures, outer wheel houses, or anywhere else for that matter.
      Attached Images Attached Images        

    8. #28
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      Jul 2013
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      N. Scottsdale
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      376
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      Should be finished with the Quadra Link stuff this week. Here are some photos of progress as of Friday. Not sure how far to go prettying things up. The original plan was not to go too far beyond what the car would have looked like had the factory installed these parts.
      Attached Images Attached Images      

    9. #29
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Waterloo, Ia
      Posts
      1,409
      Nice!
      -Nick
      -1967 GTO I drive and race
      -Build threads:
      -http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=615847&page=23
      -https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...project-thread


    10. #30
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      Jul 2013
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      N. Scottsdale
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      What to do about a roll bar?

      I need to decide what to do about a roll bar as soon as possible. The car will be street driven primarily, but with 750-800 ft lbs of torque and sticky 335s I've been told I'll need some sort of roll bar or cage to stiffen things up. I'm thinking about getting a DSE 4-point bar (since it's readily available and fits well) and welding in some really low door bars to make it an unobtrusive 6 point. Is this feasible? Are there better options? Will this limit my options for seats?

    11. #31
      Join Date
      Oct 2005
      Location
      Toronto
      Posts
      1,465
      You can do a custom cage like we did on the WarPath and Cochise builds... I've attached a image for your review and as you can see we tucked the cage into (50/50) inner structure...
      This allows for a blind cage when the interior is place in the car and address the seat issues you spoke about... Hope it helps...

      Carbon Kustoms Limited
      A.K.A. Albert from Toronto

    12. #32
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      Jul 2013
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      N. Scottsdale
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      Quote Originally Posted by tazzz25906112 View Post
      You can do a custom cage like we did on the WarPath and Cochise builds... I've attached a image for your review and as you can see we tucked the cage into (50/50) inner structure...
      This allows for a blind cage when the interior is place in the car and address the seat issues you spoke about... Hope it helps...

      That's pretty slick…I'd love to chat with you about this.

    13. #33
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      Oct 2005
      Location
      Toronto
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      1,465
      Quote Originally Posted by Alponcho View Post
      That's pretty slick…I'd love to chat with you about this.
      np just drop me a note over at [email protected] or at 41 6-566-9660....
      Carbon Kustoms Limited
      A.K.A. Albert from Toronto

    14. #34
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      Jul 2013
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      N. Scottsdale
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      Moved on to the front of the car for a while…preliminary metal work and fitting doors, fenders, hood, bumper & valence. We're going to leave the gaps a hair wider than a normal restoration to accommodate some flex. I'm really happy with how things are looking…I'm especially happy the hood fit so well…being made out of fiberglass many have warped and cracked over the years…I was lucky to find a really nice one close to home.

      Will weld in the main hoop and back bars of the cage before it leaves for the blaster…probably after the new year now.

      I decided to keep the stainless decor moulding around the windows and the "Firebird" and "Formula 400" fender emblems, but will not be installing the rocker trim or wheel well moldings.
      Attached Images Attached Images        

    15. #35
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      Jul 2013
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      N. Scottsdale
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      Progress on this project has been slow and steady. After Randy was satisfied with the fit of the hood, bumper, valence, fenders, and doors, he took it apart and sent it to the blaster. As you can see from the photos, the body is really clean.

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      Body in epoxy.

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      Front clip back together. More fitting and straightening.

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      Quarter and tail fitting…she's starting to look like a car again.

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    16. #36
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
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      Ma.
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      5,567
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      Very Nice! it is definitely a nice clean car. You have plenty of room for some big meats back there now. What you have done already looks great they're doing a nice job.
      Wayne
      Car FINALLY home !!!!!! lol
      Project FNQUIK https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ghlight=FNQUIK

    17. #37
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      Mar 2013
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      Beaufort,SC
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      That body is better then when it came from the factory great work that shop is doing.

    18. #38
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      Jul 2013
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      N. Scottsdale
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      376
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      Thanks guys. Going for high end fit and finish, but trying to maintain factory vibe and identifiability as a Formula 400. This is why I'll be using the fender emblems and no spoiler. The latter has actually sparked a bit of controversy among my friends here locally. I think it will look good this way sitting low with the big tires…but I haven't seen a Firebird set up this way so I'm not absolutely sure.

    19. #39
      Join Date
      Jun 2007
      Location
      St. Pete FL
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      934
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      here is what comes to mind when I think firebird with big tires, sitting low & no spoiler:
      http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Fire...m=251898598899

      Your metal work is fantastic looking BTW!
      HELP!!!
      1973 TA 4 spd #'s match red/white = STOLEN
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...55#post1106255

    20. #40
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      Jul 2013
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      N. Scottsdale
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      The guy doing the body is meticulous. Here's a photo of his '69 GTO convertible, an honest to goodness RAIV 4-speed car. He just finished it.

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