Froggy 69Bird PT wannabe - "poor dady" VERY SLOW build.

[Widetrax]

Gil,
Great looking 69! Another reason your headers hire the ground a lot is the shock absorbers are to soft for your ride height. The weight of a 455 is pretty high, and it takes really good(stiff) shocks to control all that weight. I hope you can also get the exhaust tucked up a bit higher with the mod you are planning. Not hitting the ground or your floorboards is a difficult accomplishment with so little room to work with. After you hang the new pipes, look into installing a "H" pipe or balance tube as close to the headers as you can, this will improve the sound and will raise your engines low end torque( like a 455 needs help with that!), but they do tighten up the long pipes,and keep them from moving around independently(swinging side to side) so you can keep tighter tolerances between your driveshaft and floorboards. Keep up the good work! And involve your young son in as much of your work as you can!!
Again, great car!!

[Gil]

I like the look of the turn downed pipes. My buddy told me they are very loud when they are located in hat position. It is firebird city on pro-touring.com this year.

Thanks Atomic,
yes, good to see Pontiac projects.
Gil

[Gil]

Gil,
Great looking 69! Another reason your headers hire the ground a lot is the shock absorbers are to soft for your ride height. The weight of a 455 is pretty high, and it takes really good(stiff) shocks to control all that weight. I hope you can also get the exhaust tucked up a bit higher with the mod you are planning. Not hitting the ground or your floorboards is a difficult accomplishment with so little room to work with. After you hang the new pipes, look into installing a "H" pipe or balance tube as close to the headers as you can, this will improve the sound and will raise your engines low end torque( like a 455 needs help with that!), but they do tighten up the long pipes,and keep them from moving around independently(swinging side to side) so you can keep tighter tolerances between your driveshaft and floorboards. Keep up the good work! And involve your young son in as much of your work as you can!!
Again, great car!!

Thank you Widetrack,

I know what you mean, Front shocks are not very well & springs as well.
Planned to change them when I receive the U&L control arms.

Have to order them, I think I'll go with a full Hotchkis mods for this car, front & rear.

Also the rear shocks are too bad, old dead air shocks I have mesured a 1.5" ride height difference from rear passenger to rear driver side. So will have to change them soon.

Questioning about QA1 Asian stuff... bought them long ago but I prefer "made in USA" so maybe will go with Hotchkis shocks & big block 2" drop springs if I don't like QA1.

Thanks for the H pipe tip, I'll see that closely.

My son is too young today, but I hope he will like American muscle cars as I do

Regards
Gil

[Widetrax]

Gil,
I was also interested in the QA1 shocks, when I inquired about them to the guys in the shops working on custom and race cars they all said get another brand! They all said they have problems with them leaking. But they are rebuildable, so maybe they just need better quality seals when redone.
I have heard a lot of good talk about Hotchkis suspension products, the autocross racing cloud really likes them.
Also a father of 3 boys, I try to get their assistance whenever I can. Even just to hand you tools, they will learn and build interest. They are the next generation of caretakers of our great hobby!

[lucky13firebird]

the big block springs I have from hotchkis are AWSOME. there's a reason people arounf here like hotchkis stuff, its well balanced. I have really short 255 35 18 tires on the front and the car sits low but my headers only hit things on really really bad bumps. as far as shocks, i'd go with the ones hotchkis recommends as a match for their springs BUT i have to say, when i did my hotchkis front springs i just went and got some $30 shocks from a parts store. I didn't go the cheapest route, but whatever the "premium" ones they offer for $30 instead of $25 or whatever and I've been nothing but happy. A large sway bar really helps with that, in fact springs and sway bar are a must. but shocks can be changed in 25 minutes so just get some fresh ones. if you only have the money at the time for a sway bar and springs or shocks and springs, go with the sway bar and springs... the sway bar is a pain to install so you need to do it when you have the front end apart for the spring install... then just throw in some fresh shocks. shocks would really help out with slalom weight transfer back in forth, but like on highway entrance ramps where you're cornering hard but its a steady turn you'll be wishing for a decent sway bar i you didn't have one...

I like my exhaust turndowns before the axle, slightly less loud in the cab because its not resonating through my trunk (still louder than full exhaust out the back, just not as loud as a squared off muffler tip) BUT with 3" dual exhaust I really didn't want to run the passenger side pipe by the little rubber fuel hose from the fuel tank connecting to the fuel line... so turndows it it. and like widetrax said a crossover REALLY helps.

i've figured out the pontiac city situation here... everyone loves the F body for the handling and its usually 40% cheaper to get a decent pontiac F body than a camaro in similar shape so all the not rich kids buy firebirds... hence the "poor boy" thread, my "daily driver" and the "on a budget" threads... it all goes hand in hand.

and as far as the tempests and GTO's well, those are amazing cars so its only natural that people build those. the a body gm cars come with the exact suspension stock that many pro touring guys copy into the first gen F body cars... or similar anyway, so they're a natural start to good solid track cars... and that pretty much then covers why there's so many elcaminos, chevelles, and Tempests, and the occasional olds or buick...


oh here's a pic of a good sway bar at work... I jacked up the left side of my car yesterday to get to the transmission shifter and the right side sat a mile high because the sway bar wouldn't let just the left wheel drop but was forcing the right side down too.... this REALLY helps keep the car flat and those low profile tires flat and sticking around corners...

[Gil]

C'mon, Luky,

put a jackstand in your trunk next time ! Safer than just a jack.

Heard you guys, I'll go with Hotchkis, but L&U Control arms will wait.

I'll go with sway bar, BB 2" 600 lb/in drop springs & front coils from them. Will cost less for better handling.

Will also put the QA1 for sale in the french market as they are brand new in the box.

i've figured out the pontiac city situation here... everyone loves the F body for the handling and its usually 40% cheaper to get a decent pontiac F body than a camaro in similar shape so all the not rich kids buy firebirds... hence the "poor boy" thread, my "daily driver" and the "on a budget" threads... it all goes hand in hand.

This is a crazy thing as firebirds were originaly more expensive & with more options than Camaros, and todays "budget builds" have original electrical 4 windows & seats, A/C front discs brakes and other options that Camaros had not... Good revenge from the Firebird !

Luky, your Bird is beauty, front in this picture looks like a 69 GTO

Have a nice day guys
Gil

[Gil]

Hi guys,

Technical control is done and OK for 2 years !!!

Real things will start soon :

Fuel lines to rebuild, throttle cable, exhaust, body mounts...

Will order this week front Hotchkis suspension (sway bar, springs & coils) & X-pipe for exhaust.

Happy I'm allowed to drive & to have little time and money to take care of the Bird.

Have a nice day
Gil

[lucky13firebird]

nice, glad you can drive it now. you're gonna love the hotchkis springs and coils. good stuff, really. I snapped my throttle cable coming home from work two days ago, had my buddy come and get me and we bought one from a bicycle... put it in, trimmed it to fit and viola! I'm driving home again and racing on sunday. cheap fix and it worked for me. and I have like 3 feet of spare cable just sitting in my dash in case it snaps again, which shouldn't happen for another 3 years so... yeah. ;-) btw my little guys love "driving" my car too. they always climb in and make motor noises, today they were begging for the keys when they were in there but no way I'm giving them those, last thing i need is to get run over while bending up a new fuel line to the carb.

-today i went to the track again, and remembered what you said and made sure to bring my own jack and jackstand, I even used the jackstand when I was adjusting someting and while making sure the shift linkage was still on tight ;-)

[Gil]

Thanks Lucky,

btw my little guys love "driving" my car too. they always climb in and make motor noises, today they were begging for the keys when they were in there but no way I'm giving them those, last thing i need is to get run over while bending up a new fuel line to the carb.

Hum... No need driving licence to run 1/4 mile, right ? ... Maybe your guys could clock a better time than this week-end daddy's runs ? Eyes closed ? OK, I'm out....

My cable is already a bike brake cable... Thanks from previous owner. Already fixed twice... and "hand throttle" is not really fun even with an auto trans...

My son wasn't afraid yesturday when I fired it up, I'm thinking of putting a rear seat belt for his safety seat. Will be a blast to cruise with the familly

Gil

[lucky13firebird]

You saw the car seats in mine in the videos... my kids go to sleep in that car in their car seats. 3" exhaust and everything...

[Gil]

Yep, I have to unbolt the rear seat cushion.
With a little chance prev. owner just hide the belts under.
Will have to write a list with the "to do" things...
Gil

[68firebird]

Yep, I have to unbolt the rear seat cushion.
With a little chance prev. owner just hide the belts under.
Will have to write a list with the "to do" things...
Gil

Hahaha, I was trying like hell for years to get the old belts out of the back of mine, I just could not figure out why the bolts wouldn't come out, cause I am changing it over from the aqua color to black! Until last weekend, from under the car I realized that when I had my exhaust put in many years ago they welded the hangers to them underneath the car, HAHAHAHAHAHA. guess I'll have to make a trip to the shop and have them change the hanger position!

[Buryingthesun]

I know I have said it before, but im absolutely in love with the color of your car

[Gil]

I know I have said it before, but im absolutely in love with the color of your car

Thanks mate, it's a return in the seventies !

Pretty sure it's 1970 Pontiac GTO "The Judge" Orbit Orange, but I don't have paint code.

Gil

[Gil]

Hahaha, I was trying like hell for years to get the old belts out of the back of mine, I just could not figure out why the bolts wouldn't come out, cause I am changing it over from the aqua color to black! Until last weekend, from under the car I realized that when I had my exhaust put in many years ago they welded the hangers to them underneath the car, HAHAHAHAHAHA. guess I'll have to make a trip to the shop and have them change the hanger position!

Thanks Rene,

Hope mine are not welded and the belts still under the cushion...

Gil

[Gil]

Not much work done for now, just fixed a little fuel leak as one of my return hose was too large for the line.
Changed to the good size and should be good now !

Actually turning things over in my head about the fuel lines routing on my car.
The more I see it, the more I think I'll reroute the simplest way as I don't want to bend the new lines like a crazy snake to be able to reuse the attaching points.
So I decided to do something as straight as possible and drill holes when needed.

Planned to start tonight, will post pics soon...

Have a nice day
Gil

[mikewoods]

It looks great Gil! Its awesome to see some American muscle in France!

[Gil]

Thanks Mike.

And thanks to your country in 1944, or there would be only Mercedes in Europe...

Thanks for my freedom to rebuild an American Muscle in Europe today !

My small tribute is to do it the best I can
Gil

[68firebird]

Thanks Mike.

And thanks to your country in 1944, or there would be only Mercedes in Europe...

Thanks for my freedom to rebuild an American Muscle in Europe today !

My small tribute is to do it the best I can
Gil

well said Gil.

[Gil]

Thank you Rene,

Well, I have seen the fuel lines route better tonight and was able to spray some french "kind of" PB blaster on all bolts.
To rebuild the lines won't be easy as they seems to be in two lines for outward & one line for the return...
My plan would be to start from the tank, cut the lines when arriving at the subframe and put hoses (easiest if I have to unbolt the subframe later),
then continue with lines to the fuel pump.



Took a look to the headers also... There is no room...
I think this will be a pain to have all unbolt & bolt the long branch if the motor is not out of the car...

But this will be another mission.

Fuel lines first, starting this week-end.

Gil