SCCA is adding a class just for us!

[Damn True]

Will all Pro-Touring cars and builds be competitive at the Tour/Pro/National level? Absolutely not. Will everyone get a chance to have fun with what they built? Most definitely yes. And that is what it should be. There will be good competition and I can't wait.



Mary Pozzi

All the "this's"

[73CPCAMARO]

Here are the CP weights without driver:

The following weights apply unless a specifi c weight is indicated with
the model listing.
Minimum weight (lbs.):
V8 engines greater than 5100 cc .......................................... 3000
V8 engines equal to or less than 5100 cc ............................. 2700
6-cyl engines, maximum 4500 cc ......................................... 2450
Turbocharged 6-cyl engines, maximum 4500 cc .................. 2550
Turbocharged 4-cyl engines ................................................. 2450
Maximum weight on the rear of the car shall be 51% of the total
weight of the car. Exceptions to this rule: Corvair, Yenko Stinger.

F. For class CP, wheels up to 16” x 10” are allowed with no weight increase.
Wheels greater than 10” in width will receive a 50 lb. increase.

[howehot]

With the mods to my Monte they put me in EM. I know I can't compete and could care less. The fun factor is great and every run I gain experience. Also at $35 for the day the price can't be beat. The CAM class will help me judge on my improvements by letting me run with cars similar to mine. The IowaRegion will discuss CAM at the next meeting. Oh, and everyone loves it when I show up, I'm not the fastest but they enjoy the sights and sounds of GM muscle.

[soloracerSD]

Regions make classing mistakes.Thats why it's good to read the rules yourself after your first event or before,WE had a guy with a 63 Falcon that was put in XP at our SDR SOLO2 National Tour.It was stripped street driven CP car.It was is first SCCA event.He didn't know the difference between Local and National Tour.Baptism By Fire for sure.If classed correctly he would of been the only CP car.Which I tried getting our PT guys to do.No one runs CP down here.They could of had a National Tour class to themselves that weekend.I don't know why yours would be EM.Maybe you moved the motor back or subframe change.I'm curious to know.Jason and Brian are more expert on that.

With the mods to my Monte they put me in EM. I know I can't compete and could care less. The fun factor is great and every run I gain experience. Also at $35 for the day the price can't be beat. The CAM class will help me judge on my improvements by letting me run with cars similar to mine. The IowaRegion will discuss CAM at the next meeting. Oh, and everyone loves it when I show up, I'm not the fastest but they enjoy the sights and sounds of GM muscle.

[SSLance]

Dan's Monte has a complete aftermarket chassis under it...I would have guessed XP...

I agree though, it will be more fun for all of us to run together, competitive or not. The most fun I had at an event last year was when 3 of us that normally run 3 different classes all ran together in our new SMC class. A WS6, a 2011 Camaro and my car. I look forward to running against them all next year all year long...and anyone else that comes along and doesn't fit in with the rest of the regular autocross cars...

[avewhtboy]

Are you thinking your car will weigh 2500# ?

Not that it's that important, but it's possible, It's a Vega, they make every panel in fiberglass and lexan windows. If you look at the
weights of the drag cars it's quite possible. Of course this was by design to take advantage of no weight rule.

Rick

[soloracerSD]

Brian I'm interested in the CAM car that is C-Prepared legal.Question is.You have to use not stock but original subframe correct?.Can you make mounts for modern Corvette suspension on the subframe ?. or change a cross member? That would clear things up for me and others.

Here are the CP weights without driver:

The following weights apply unless a specifi c weight is indicated with
the model listing.
Minimum weight (lbs.):
V8 engines greater than 5100 cc .......................................... 3000
V8 engines equal to or less than 5100 cc ............................. 2700
6-cyl engines, maximum 4500 cc ......................................... 2450
Turbocharged 6-cyl engines, maximum 4500 cc .................. 2550
Turbocharged 4-cyl engines ................................................. 2450
Maximum weight on the rear of the car shall be 51% of the total
weight of the car. Exceptions to this rule: Corvair, Yenko Stinger.

F. For class CP, wheels up to 16” x 10” are allowed with no weight increase.
Wheels greater than 10” in width will receive a 50 lb. increase.

[IndyDave]

CP can be a very confusing class. WE have one CP competitor here in the Great Lakes Division running CP with a Howe tube chassis and a 5 Star Camaro body. There's an inclusion in one of the appendixes that allows GT-1 Club Race cars to run in CP so the car is built to GT-1 rules. It's been a very controversial car but he has run it in National Tours and has withstood protests.

Thanks Brian for clarifying weight rules in Solo, I misspoke. I've not had to deal with minimum weights in Solo, I was recalling how it works over on the Club Race side. That is something that really should be clarified. I'll pass that along.

[73CPCAMARO]

CP can be a very confusing class. WE have one CP competitor here in the Great Lakes Division running CP with a Howe tube chassis and a 5 Star Camaro body. There's an inclusion in one of the appendixes that allows GT-1 Club Race cars to run in CP so the car is built to GT-1 rules. It's been a very controversial car but he has run it in National Tours and has withstood protests.

Thanks Brian for clarifying weight rules in Solo, I misspoke. I've not had to deal with minimum weights in Solo, I was recalling how it works over on the Club Race side. That is something that really should be clarified. I'll pass that along.

I have run my friends car, Bill Maier's old Trans Am car, 1980 Ford Mustang, at SCCA Nationals and another friend drove it years ago and won the National Championship. It is a complete tube frame chassis. You can run a tube frame chassis as long as it complies to SCCA's road race rule book. You can also change out the subframe and add a 10% weight penalty.

D. Replacement of any chassis component (e.g., subframe) in its entirety by one of alternate construction, unless specifically permitted, shall result in the vehicle being “in excess” of these rules and weight penalties and/or competitive adjustments may apply.

Vehicles prepared in excess of Solo® allowances and prepared up to either the current Club Racing GT or Production Category rules are permitted to compete in their respective Prepared classes. Section 17.8.B.7 minimum track requirements apply. Minimum weight will be 110% of the Solo® minimum weight from Appendix A plus any Solo® weight additions (wheel size weight increases, etc.). Vehicles taking advantage of this allowance may use the Solo® Rules or the Club Racing GCR (General Competition Rules) allowances in whole, in part, or in combination

[soloracerSD]

So am I right to say the Monte Carlo Howehot can run CP. not be stuck in EM? If so that boost CP car #s.CAM could be a class that produces more of them.DSE subframe legal in CP? YES? NO?.

Monte Carlo has a completely different chassis?.More then a Subframe I guess probably outside of CP then.

[71RS/SS396]

to 71rs

For your car it is as simple as ESP,CP or SM.ESP cars can run in SM and CP. so SM or CP to make it simpler....If subframe changed then that's the issue.XP or EM I guess then.

In short if you Want a CAM car to run in SCCA National SOLO2 Champion Nebraska this year.Then build a car that is both legal in CAM and CP.Street Legal CP=CAM pretty much or follow ESP or SM rules you have some firm ground to stand on then

Just following CAM and you will have issues as you may have heard.Only reason I see for CAM is Subframe changes & frame swapping ,forced induction200 tires.Maybe it will take off ,maybe they will change CP a little.I hope I didn't start another debate.?.This debate has been going on for a year plus in or region.

OUR SDR PT regulars are split on using SCCA SM rules Vintage SM others StreetLegal CP allowing subframe changes which fits CAM but not scca CP. on 200.

Maybe after all this chatter.Some will read these SCCA classes in the rule book for the first time.It will start to make sense then.Maybe Not so bad after all.pages 81 to 113.then to prepared classes 2013.

Jason R.. I brought up the 4" pipe ground clearance rule at our first gathering of PTs in SDR 1.5 years ago.It also reduces fender clearing for tires.I wasn't getting much traction on it.Good to know I shared a unique idea with you...

I have an aftermarket subframe which as understand it will not allow me in CP. Which imho is flat idiotic due to the fact in CP you can chop the frame up to the point it has no suspension parts that resemble the factory in any way. Do you really believe that Brian's car is at any disadvantage to mine because he still has the highly modified subframe?

[j-rho]

You can run CP with a different subframe, you just incur a weight penalty...which won't affect most people, as their cars are already pretty heavy by CP standards.

[soloracerSD]

You might be legal in CP. That's what we are discussing right now.Just have to be over 3000lb maybe higher a couple hundred.

Jason just poped in with the answer.. Brian maybe will step in and back that up...That would be much better then EM or XP like I was thinking.I know some PT guys with DSE frames 750 hp LS7 69 Camaros that have both 200 tw and soft compound for track event.This will be good news to them..They have a choice now CAM and CP.Thats why we have these chats here ,Not to scare but educate and prepare for more fun

I have an aftermarket subframe which as understand it will not allow me in CP. Which imho is flat idiotic due to the fact in CP you can chop the frame up to the point it has no suspension parts that resemble the factory in any way. Do you really believe that Brian's car is at any disadvantage to mine because he still has the highly modified subframe?

[73CPCAMARO]

You might be legal in CP. That's what we are discussing right now.Just have to be over 3000lb maybe higher a couple hundred.

3000 + 300 (10% penalty) + 50 (wheels) = 3350

[soloracerSD]

For every Subframe changed car that shows up at a SCCA regional event this year and enters CP. I Want A Commission for sales.Just PM for mailing address...LOL


I'm going to have to find that info in my 2013 rule book and highlight it.Thanks guys ..Maybe I should ask if a bored LS7 is legal in a 69 Camaro CP.I think so.

[SSLance]

KC Region SAC voted to adopt the CAM class for us tonight. We decided to not split the class up by model year or sedan\coupe at least for 2014...we'll see how it goes after.

There was a lot of talk about what PAX to run, I really need to figure that out in "Lance speak" as most of what they talk about makes no sense to me at all. There's the PAX # and then the street tire modifier and the two added up shave X amount of seconds off of your time. I kind of get all that, but in practical sense and how it directly relates to me and how it will affect my PAX time I don't really understand.

Apparently I've made an impression though as there was a discussion about a .9775 or a .9800 modifier and several of them mentioned that .9775 was a bit generous and they don't want to give me anymore than they have to. :D

[71RS/SS396]

3000 + 300 (10% penalty) + 50 (wheels) = 3350

Brian, I'm not picking on your car, I'm just familiar with how it's constructed so it's easy for me to compare. I'm having a hard time understanding the fairness in the weight penalty. As I stated before, I don't see the significant performance advantage I have over your car in regards to the subframe. I guess if I ever want to run CP I shouldn't put the car on the diet I was planning since I'm already too light.

[dontlifttoshift]

looks like .830 is the number

This is what I read was going to be the pax number.

[71RS/SS396]

You might be legal in CP. I know some PT guys with DSE frames 750 hp LS7 69 Camaros that have both 200 tw and soft compound for track event.This will be good news to them..They have a choice now CAM and CP.Thats why we have these chats here ,Not to scare but educate and prepare for more fun

That's basically where I'm at, only with a second gen.

[73CPCAMARO]

Brian, I'm not picking on your car, I'm just familiar with how it's constructed so it's easy for me to compare. I'm having a hard time understanding the fairness in the weight penalty. As I stated before, I don't see the significant performance advantage I have over your car in regards to the subframe.

Tim,

Actually, my modified stock subframe is better than yours AND you have a weight penalty. Sorry :-)

Those are the rules SCCA has had for a very long time. There are rules and ways to take them to the limit.

Brian