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    1. #41
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      Jul 2005
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      Reading, PA
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      176
      Name:  BellhousingParallel01.jpg
Views: 4490
Size:  114.5 KBDo you guys realize that you must do a bellhousing parallel alignment check and correction 1st before you plan what offset dowel pins are needed? Take a round circle and tilt it on a 45* and you are now looking through an oval.



      Correcting the parallel alignment will change the concentric reading alignment. I have setup many QuickTime bellhousings and every QuickTime needed shims between the bellhousing and engine block to correct the parallel alignment. The we correct the concentric alignment as the second step.

      To make the T56 QuickTime bellhousing alignment easier, install a button on the plunger. I have a button installed on my plunger on the picture posted above.
      Jody Haag
      [email protected]
      Most 4, 5, and 6 Speed Repairs, Parts, Service & Custom Installations
      610-413-8015
      Jody's Transmissions on Facebook


    2. #42
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Reading, PA
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      176

      Here are the machine slotted shims installed to correct the bellhousing parallel alignment.
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Jody Haag
      [email protected]
      Most 4, 5, and 6 Speed Repairs, Parts, Service & Custom Installations
      610-413-8015
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    3. #43
      Join Date
      Jul 2011
      Location
      Plano, Texas
      Posts
      355
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by badazz81z28 View Post
      Ok, for sanity I set it up again, and now my furthest is .009", am I thinking right if I go back to a .007 pin, I will be at .002"?
      It depends. Is it off .009" the same direction, the opposite direction, or a different direction? If it the same direction, you need more. If it is opposite, less. If it is a different direction you may need to rotate the 0.014" dowel to get it to work right. If you still have the 0" pins put them in and measure to see what the run out is and which direction.

      Edit: by the way, 0.007"-0.009" is within the 0.010" TIR spec...
      Michael Mosley
      1968 Barracuda
      Plano, TX

      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...in-Plano-Texas

    4. #44
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      Jul 2011
      Location
      Plano, Texas
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      355
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      0.042"? Wow. I'm going to play with the set up and see if I can get it more perpendicular... but I swept it several times 0.000" on the opposite side, 0.042" at about 1 o'clock. I checked the parallelism of the bell, it was within 0.010". The only thing I found in the Tremec literature was the "Align bell housing to within 0.010 inch TIR on
      face and in bore." Same meaning as +/- 0.005".

      Name:  DSC06151.jpg
Views: 1967
Size:  299.7 KB
      Michael Mosley
      1968 Barracuda
      Plano, TX

      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...in-Plano-Texas

    5. #45
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Reading, PA
      Posts
      176
      Bellhousing Alignment Specs:
      Parallel alignment specs are +/-.001" or .002" TIR
      Concentric alignment specs are +/-.005" or .010" TIR
      I shoot for half those industry specs posted above, the better your alignment, the better shiftability you will experience.

      Correcting the parallel alignment 1st will change your concentric alignment reading. If you take a round circle and tilt it on a 45* angle, you will see your round circle is now an oval. This is why you must correct the parallel alignment first or you will get a false concentric reading.

      To confirm your bellhousing is flat and parallel, the 12:00 and 6:00 reading should equal the 9:00 and 3:00 indicator reading.
      Jody Haag
      [email protected]
      Most 4, 5, and 6 Speed Repairs, Parts, Service & Custom Installations
      610-413-8015
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    6. #46
      Join Date
      Jul 2011
      Location
      Plano, Texas
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      Quote Originally Posted by JodysTransmissions View Post
      Bellhousing Alignment Specs:
      Parallel alignment specs are +/-.001" or .002" TIR
      The indicator is floating .005" in the matter of sweeping an inch on this bell, the surface is obviously not true / flat and is too segmented to get a good solid reading all the way around. It may be parallel, but the surface is not flat enough to read so it is difficult to tell. I get the same readings, L/R and T/B depending on exactly where... kind of sketchy. Should I just measure the face of the front bearing retainer plate? Probably what I need to do. I tightened the six bolts around from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock and the starter. Do I also need to attach all the bolts around the bottom that hold the bell to the block shield?

      Name:  DSC06139.jpg
Views: 1950
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      Michael Mosley
      1968 Barracuda
      Plano, TX

      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...in-Plano-Texas

    7. #47
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Reading, PA
      Posts
      176
      All bellhousing to engine block fasteners should be torqued.

      See my post #41 and picture for reference; you should use a button on the plunger with packaging tape over any hole opening for the button to easily glide over.

      You must also make sure you do not have crankshaft endplay float giving you a false parallel reading. I usually do 3 revolutions pushing rearward on the crankshaft to contact the thrust area of rear main bearing. Then always apply rear pressure as you rotate the engine doing the parallel alignment reading.

      Worst case, I have blanchard ground many QuickTime bellhousings to make them true and parallel.
      Jody Haag
      [email protected]
      Most 4, 5, and 6 Speed Repairs, Parts, Service & Custom Installations
      610-413-8015
      Jody's Transmissions on Facebook

    8. #48
      Join Date
      Jul 2011
      Location
      Plano, Texas
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      355
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      Quote Originally Posted by JodysTransmissions View Post
      All bellhousing to engine block fasteners should be torqued.

      See my post #41 and picture for reference; you should use a button on the plunger with packaging tape over any hole opening for the button to easily glide over.

      You must also make sure you do not have crankshaft endplay float giving you a false parallel reading. I usually do 3 revolutions pushing rearward on the crankshaft to contact the thrust area of rear main bearing. Then always apply rear pressure as you rotate the engine doing the parallel alignment reading.

      Worst case, I have blanchard ground many QuickTime bellhousings to make them true and parallel.
      I was thinking about the thrust... guess I can give it a couple of taps and push against it to make sure it isn't "playing" into my measurement. I noticed your packing tape, guess I will have to emulate that. Now just need to find a button to use or borrow a different dial indicator that has one. Grinding the bell, I guess the local machine shop would have a Blanchard style grinder set up if they do engine blocks. Finding a competent machine shop that will do one off work like that may be a little more of a challenge. Do you do both sides? Thanks for all the input.
      Michael Mosley
      1968 Barracuda
      Plano, TX

      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...in-Plano-Texas

    9. #49
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Reading, PA
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      176
      Quote Originally Posted by mmosley View Post
      I was thinking about the thrust... guess I can give it a couple of taps and push against it to make sure it isn't "playing" into my measurement. I noticed your packing tape, guess I will have to emulate that. Now just need to find a button to use or borrow a different dial indicator that has one. Grinding the bell, I guess the local machine shop would have a Blanchard style grinder set up if they do engine blocks. Finding a competent machine shop that will do one off work like that may be a little more of a challenge. Do you do both sides? Thanks for all the input.
      If you rotate your crankshaft 360* and the dial indicator returns to zero at your starting point; this usually verifies that your crankshaft made a positive contact with the thrust of the rear main bearing during rotation.

      Here is the Starrett button I use to help glide over the packaging tape: http://www.starrett.com/metrology/pr...tail/PT06632-4 This button purchase will be one of the best $7.00 investments you can do for this job. Just make sure the button threads are compatible with your indicator manufacture.

      For starters; I use a countersink and relieve every hole on the back side of the bellhousing and both sides of the blocksaver plate.
      I have removed the power coating off the both mating surfaces and that usually can net a good parallel setup. As a last resort, I have blanchard ground two QuickTime bellhousings on both sides to achieve parallel alignment specs.
      Jody Haag
      [email protected]
      Most 4, 5, and 6 Speed Repairs, Parts, Service & Custom Installations
      610-413-8015
      Jody's Transmissions on Facebook

    10. #50
      Join Date
      Sep 2014
      Posts
      4
      Country Flag: Canada
      Quote Originally Posted by mrennie View Post
      Thanks for the feedback. I suspected that some would think this was unnecessary, but I know what I found, and am glad to hear you have found something and were able to correct it.

      Have you corrected the alignment yet? If so, did your shifting improve?
      I did and Wow, silky smooth shifting.

    11. #51
      Join Date
      Jun 2010
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      Deployed
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      Quote Originally Posted by JodysTransmissions View Post
      Do you guys realize that you must do a bellhousing parallel alignment check and correction 1st before you plan what offset dowel pins are needed? Take a round circle and tilt it on a 45* and you are now looking through an oval.

      Correcting the parallel alignment will change the concentric reading alignment. I have setup many QuickTime bellhousings and every QuickTime needed shims between the bellhousing and engine block to correct the parallel alignment. The we correct the concentric alignment as the second step.

      To make the T56 QuickTime bellhousing alignment easier, install a button on the plunger. I have a button installed on my plunger on the picture posted above.
      The thing about this, how accurate is it? The powder coating on the bellhousing is not the same thickness. I know I might be biting myself in the arse here, but I don't ever check Parallel . I'm more worried about concentric as that's what Tremec wants you to check. I know it's the sure true way to check all of this, but how do you know the clutch and the flywheel are parallel? How about the transmission face being flat? Why are the shims to correct parallel are not widely available like dowels? I don't get how gm slaps these together in the ZR1, Corvettes, Camaros and has no issues if it's so important

    12. #52
      Join Date
      Aug 2011
      Location
      North Platte,NE
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      876
      Country Flag: United States
      This is how I checked parallel, came up with .005 total all 3 times I rotated it. Im not gonna mess with that but I do have .019 TIR and already have a .007 offset dowel set I will use. Gonna get it as minimal as possible and bolt it together.

    13. #53
      Join Date
      Oct 2013
      Posts
      533
      Quick question when you remove the top bolt that holds the spring their is 3 slots, when putting it back do I put it in the one farthest or closest to the transmission itself?

    14. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by 71maroesteban View Post
      Quick question when you remove the top bolt that holds the spring their is 3 slots, when putting it back do I put it in the one farthest or closest to the transmission itself?
      I just put the cover on, installed spring and bolt. I don't think it matters. All it does is Keep pressure on the detent

    15. #55
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Reading, PA
      Posts
      176
      So, you took your T56 apart and the parallel alignment is out 2-1/2 times over the spec. How much do you think .005" is magnified when it relates to the input shaft sticking out almost 7 inches?
      Jody Haag
      [email protected]
      Most 4, 5, and 6 Speed Repairs, Parts, Service & Custom Installations
      610-413-8015
      Jody's Transmissions on Facebook

    16. #56
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      Jul 2005
      Location
      Reading, PA
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      Name:  294.jpg
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      The dial indicator reading will tell you about the quality and flatness of the powdercoat application. You would be surprised how many guys have never thought about doing a parallel alignment check.

      These shims have been around a long time.........
      Jody Haag
      [email protected]
      Most 4, 5, and 6 Speed Repairs, Parts, Service & Custom Installations
      610-413-8015
      Jody's Transmissions on Facebook

    17. #57
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      Jul 2011
      Location
      Plano, Texas
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      Quote Originally Posted by JodysTransmissions View Post
      So, you took your T56 apart and the parallel alignment is out 2-1/2 times over the spec. How much do you think .005" is magnified when it relates to the input shaft sticking out almost 7 inches?
      Jody, where do you get the 0.002" number from? The only mention I find in the manual is this statement: "Align bell housing to within 0.010 inch TIR on
      face and in bore". Even this for parallel is vague, how far from center are we measuring? If you are doing a sweep at a 3" diameter and read 0.005", at 6" diameter that is 0.010".

      And, to answer your question, assuming he measured 0.005" at a 3" diameter that is about 0.011" at 7". The question should be what angle will the input bearing tolerate. Parallelism would be an angle measure, not a raw number. You could say something like 0.002" measured on the face of the bearing race, now that would be specific. Problem is I do not see this anywhere in documentation I have seen.

      Not trying to be a smart aleck here, just want to know what is right. I also do not want to go through a lot of grief and expense to try to meet a number that was passed on word of mouth, the manufacturer's documentation I have seen so far seems a bit lacking in that regard.
      Michael Mosley
      1968 Barracuda
      Plano, TX

      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...in-Plano-Texas

    18. #58
      Join Date
      Aug 2011
      Location
      North Platte,NE
      Posts
      876
      Country Flag: United States
      Shim stock has been around a long time to, I have some .005 I will use to get bell parallel. Might as well get the thing as dialed as possible. I found an old, '60's, Chevy spec of .010 for parallel. I agree with Mike on the magnifying of the measurement though, my dial indicator being mounted to the flywheel and reading at the bearing race is maybe 1" shy of what the input shaft is. I get it and because of your post I will take the extra "measures" to try and zero this thing out.

    19. #59
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Reading, PA
      Posts
      176
      Quote Originally Posted by 72BBSwinger View Post
      Shim stock has been around a long time to, I have some .005 I will use to get bell parallel. Might as well get the thing as dialed as possible. I found an old, '60's, Chevy spec of .010 for parallel. I agree with Mike on the magnifying of the measurement though, my dial indicator being mounted to the flywheel and reading at the bearing race is maybe 1" shy of what the input shaft is. I get it and because of your post I will take the extra "measures" to try and zero this thing out.
      Bellhousing Alignment Specs:
      Parallel Specs are: +/-.001" or .002" TIR
      Concentric Specs are: +/-.005" or .010" TIR

      My personal bellhousing alignment specs are half the industry standard of what I posted above.

      Please note: when you dial in the parallel alignment and make corrections; this will change your concentric reading. With that said, you must correct the parallel alignment 1st, then do your concentric alignment correction next.

      I have been furtunate to have been involved with a few drag race teams that have been shifting at 8000 RPMs many years ago. Doing the parallel and concentric was a must to execute those high RPM shifts.

      I have re-measured many Lakewood and McLeod bellhousings and the parallel alignment will change unless the bellhousing is 2-3 years old. Using an older seasoned bellhousing is the best as it is less like to change shape.

      The closer and better you can achieve the bellhousing alignment the smoother your shifts will be.
      Jody Haag
      [email protected]
      Most 4, 5, and 6 Speed Repairs, Parts, Service & Custom Installations
      610-413-8015
      Jody's Transmissions on Facebook

    20. #60
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Reading, PA
      Posts
      176
      Quote Originally Posted by 72BBSwinger View Post
      Shim stock has been around a long time to, I have some .005 I will use to get bell parallel. Might as well get the thing as dialed as possible. I found an old, '60's, Chevy spec of .010 for parallel. I agree with Mike on the magnifying of the measurement though, my dial indicator being mounted to the flywheel and reading at the bearing race is maybe 1" shy of what the input shaft is. I get it and because of your post I will take the extra "measures" to try and zero this thing out.
      If you need help, post your parallel alignment numbers and I'll help guide you through it. This may help others to work through the procedure.

      Here is a parallel alignment tip: Your most "positive" parallel alignment reading of the dial indicator will be your new reference for "zero". Then the "negative" dial indicator readings will be the location where you add shims to the bellhousing to engine block mounting bolts.
      Jody Haag
      [email protected]
      Most 4, 5, and 6 Speed Repairs, Parts, Service & Custom Installations
      610-413-8015
      Jody's Transmissions on Facebook

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