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    1. #21
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      Great write up! Thanks for the tech.



      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her


    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by mrennie View Post
      Hi,

      It may very well be, and mine may be too...but as I mentioned, you have no guarantee that the trans dowels are perfectly installed either.

      I assume that there is a tolerance range on all the parts, and tolerance stack could be an issue too?

      While the way I did it was a fair amount of work, I have no doubt about the alignment and will be able to sleep better at night!!!
      I agree. Quicktime told me the bells are made with a .005" tolerance in the factory.

    3. #23
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      Fredericksburg, VA.
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      Very informative thread but I made one minor change to the procedure. Specifically, I left the bearing race in place in the front cover which eliminated the need to jump the dial indicator over the oil grooves. My QT bell housing was out by .013 and after installing .007 off set dowels I ended up with .002 run out. I suspect it's not necessarily a bell housing issue, it could also be a function of the block machining. I also recommend using the Lakewood EZ-Adjust offset dowel pins equipped with set screws which makes it easy to install and adjust as many times as needed.
      Steve Hayes
      "Dust Off"
      68 Camaro

      Given sufficient initial acceleration, even pigs can fly!

    4. #24
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
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      Out of the Burbs of Detroit to SoCal, then onto my ancestral homeland, the woods of Cascadia
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      IMO, the only way to achieve a .005" tolerance on a fabricated bell is for the manufacturer to fixture the bell in a mill and, registering off the engine side dowels, then mill the dowel holes for the mid-plate; or pierce the engine dowel holes after welding the back plate on and indexing off the transmission dowel holes in it. I don't believe you can achieve the precision required in a fabricated bell unless one of the two sets of holes are made post-weld.

      I'm using a fabricated bell, and had the same question- their response was.... "Trust us. we don't have any returns." The customer service guy either a) was a moron or b) thinks I'm a moron. Not wanting to take the front of the transmission apart, l bought a McLeod T56 to conventional bell adapter. My thinking is that the plate is NC machined, so the probability of it being similar to amid-plate is better than the accuracy of the fabbed bell. Co-incidently, I was also 0.013 out of concentric.

      Your method is more accurate as it doesn't introduce the additional variation of the difference between the adapter plate and the mid-plate
      Greg Fast
      (yes, the last name is spelled correctly)

      1970 Camaro RS Clone
      1984 el Camino
      1973 MGB vintage E/Prod race car
      (Soon to be an SCCA H/Prod limited prep)

    5. #25
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      Aug 2011
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      North Platte,NE
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      You absolutely need to at least check runout with a trans that uses a pilot bearing and Quicktime does not make it easy. I love this tech too, and appreciate and insight I can get so THANKS.

    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by mrennie View Post
      Hi,

      It may very well be, and mine may be too...but as I mentioned, you have no guarantee that the trans dowels are perfectly installed either.

      I assume that there is a tolerance range on all the parts, and tolerance stack could be an issue too?

      While the way I did it was a fair amount of work, I have no doubt about the alignment and will be able to sleep better at night!!!

      mrennie-

      The tolerance applied to a given part is contingent on the manufacturing process used to make the part. In general, a machined part can be held to tolerances of several 10,ooo ths of an inch (0.000X). Stamped parts are generally good to a maybe .005-.01 in (closer in high precision small stampimgs) When you're stamping a 1/8" steel bell, it's neither small nor high precision. Fabrications have even wider tolerances. I think it's clear I have more faith in a mid-plate indexed dowel vs a fabricated bell
      Greg Fast
      (yes, the last name is spelled correctly)

      1970 Camaro RS Clone
      1984 el Camino
      1973 MGB vintage E/Prod race car
      (Soon to be an SCCA H/Prod limited prep)

    7. #27
      Join Date
      Sep 2014
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      4
      Country Flag: Canada
      Thank you very much for this. I have a 34 Ford coupe running a crate 383sb with a Magnum 6 speed. I have had issues with shifting since I installed it. Everyone told me not to worry about that quicktime bellhousing. Changed out the clutch and throwout bearing to try and fix, no work. Had always wondered about the bellhousing and then read this. I just checked mine and it is .022 or .011 out.

    8. #28
      Join Date
      Apr 2012
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      Northern Ontario, Canada
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      Quote Originally Posted by vet57air View Post
      Thank you very much for this. I have a 34 Ford coupe running a crate 383sb with a Magnum 6 speed. I have had issues with shifting since I installed it. Everyone told me not to worry about that quicktime bellhousing. Changed out the clutch and throwout bearing to try and fix, no work. Had always wondered about the bellhousing and then read this. I just checked mine and it is .022 or .011 out.
      Thanks for the feedback. I suspected that some would think this was unnecessary, but I know what I found, and am glad to hear you have found something and were able to correct it.

      Have you corrected the alignment yet? If so, did your shifting improve?

    9. #29
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      I'm curious about this now...My T56 didn't come with any instructions. How does Tremec expect you to align the bell-housing/transmission? Do they really want you pulling the front plate off? I'm also very suspect on the procedures posted above as that could void your warranty?

    10. #30
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      Aug 2011
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      North Platte,NE
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      I did mine the old fashion way and all seemed fine on the BB it was on. Just use a dial indicator with the thumb tack style tip, so when you go across the openings in the bellhousing flange it just extends about .010-.015 then back to 0 when its back on the circle.

    11. #31
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      Dec 2010
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      Quote Originally Posted by badazz81z28 View Post
      I'm curious about this now...My T56 didn't come with any instructions. How does Tremec expect you to align the bell-housing/transmission? Do they really want you pulling the front plate off? I'm also very suspect on the procedures posted above as that could void your warranty?
      How would it void the warranty? You are just unbolting the front cover, taking some measurements and reinstalling the cover. There is no seal on the case saying you will void the warranty.
      Steve Hayes
      "Dust Off"
      68 Camaro

      Given sufficient initial acceleration, even pigs can fly!

    12. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by TheJDMan View Post
      How would it void the warranty? You are just unbolting the front cover, taking some measurements and reinstalling the cover. There is no seal on the case saying you will void the warranty.
      Because you took the transmission apart. Messed with the input shaft bearing and race, messed with the shift shaft etc...Where would you draw the line? If you were Tremec and someone called you and said the front bearing failed and found out they took it all apart recently? Not saying they would not help, but it's a risk.

    13. #33
      Join Date
      Apr 2012
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      Northern Ontario, Canada
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      Quote Originally Posted by badazz81z28 View Post
      I'm curious about this now...My T56 didn't come with any instructions. How does Tremec expect you to align the bell-housing/transmission? Do they really want you pulling the front plate off? I'm also very suspect on the procedures posted above as that could void your warranty?
      Tremec does not tell you how to do the alignment, just what the limits are. As I said in my original post, this method may not be for everyone. My advice would be, if you are concerned about your warranty being affected then don't do it. Whether you choose to go to this extent or not, this thread should illustrate that tranny alignment is not guaranteed unless you check it and KNOW it is right. This was the only way I could be assured of proper alignment, and in my case I knew the warranty would be long over before I ever got my car on the road, so ensuring proper alignment far outweighed anything else.

    14. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by mrennie View Post
      Tremec does not tell you how to do the alignment, just what the limits are. As I said in my original post, this method may not be for everyone. My advice would be, if you are concerned about your warranty being affected then don't do it. Whether you choose to go to this extent or not, this thread should illustrate that tranny alignment is not guaranteed unless you check it and KNOW it is right. This was the only way I could be assured of proper alignment, and in my case I knew the warranty would be long over before I ever got my car on the road, so ensuring proper alignment far outweighed anything else.
      How does tremec expect you to do it?

    15. #35
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      Apr 2012
      Location
      Northern Ontario, Canada
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      That is the million dollar question. The T56 Magnum registers off of the small dowel pins in the front plate (unlike the other trannys like a Muncie or TKO that register off the front bearing retainer), so trying to dial in the bellhousing using the "usual" method of centering the bellhousing using the bearing retainer bore may not result in what you expect (or maybe it will, but how then do you verify that the dowel pins are accurately positioning the tranny?)

      The QuickTime Bell housing with a rough cut & incomplete center bore doesn't help either.

    16. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by mrennie View Post
      That is the million dollar question. The T56 Magnum registers off of the small dowel pins in the front plate (unlike the other trannys like a Muncie or TKO that register off the front bearing retainer), so trying to dial in the bellhousing using the "usual" method of centering the bellhousing using the bearing retainer bore may not result in what you expect (or maybe it will, but how then do you verify that the dowel pins are accurately positioning the tranny?)

      The QuickTime Bell housing with a rough cut & incomplete center bore doesn't help either.
      I'm still contemplating this. What is the ratio here of who pulls the trans apart and who doesnt? I called Tremec today and what a waste of time that was.

      My biggest concern is torquing the bolts. I worry about precicison here and only trust my torque wrench for lug nuts.

    17. #37
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
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      Get a better torque wrench.

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    18. #38
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      Ok...I put my big boy pants on and pulled the front cover off...


      Not what I was expecting though. When I dialed in my TKO to LS bellhousing I had to use .014" offsets to get it into spec. I was expecting to need regular dowels or less off-set with the different bellhousing. I performed the procedure with the .014" pins and my max run-out was .006-.007"

      This would tell me the bellhousing and the front plate are right on and the block is culprit? As far as I can tell, I'm good to go as is with the .014 pins

    19. #39
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      Ok, for sanity I set it up again, and now my furthest is .009", am I thinking right if I go back to a .007 pin, I will be at .002"?

    20. #40
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      Measured again..again...again....Must be my gauge, but I'm getting changing measurements .007-.009"

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