Pro-Touring & Track Car Safety Discussion

[Ron Sutton]

You guys are adding some great input. But more than that ... I like the attitude towards safety that I'm seeing here.



Of course there are plenty of guys not interested in safety ... that are not chiming in ... and won't give this topic much weight. But those of us that care about it ... we will get clarity on how to best protect ourselves... and make informed decisions from there.

[Ron Sutton]

Hey Guys,

I got sick this week, so the safety thread is getting put off for a week.

[dontlifttoshift]

Thanks for calling in, hope you get better. This time off is without pay, you know. You haven't been here long enough to earn "sick days"

Really, though, get well! Really looking forward to this one.

[lvrpool32]

I guess I went to the extreme with mine, full cage, through the firewall into engine bay, including a dash bar and seat mounts. I have a full fire system with the driver and engine bay protected. I don't have windows, but a window net. Also have battery cut off outside and inside and an oil pressure safety switch on the fuel pump. I have a full firesuit, with headsock, gloves and an SA rated helmet for when ever it goes on track....and a HANS device is on my Christmas list.
I am a firm believer that if you take your car to the track, and you spent more on wheels than you did on safety...you got it backwards!

[Ron Sutton]

I guess I went to the extreme with mine, full cage, through the firewall into engine bay, including a dash bar and seat mounts. I have a full fire system with the driver and engine bay protected. I don't have windows, but a window net. Also have battery cut off outside and inside and an oil pressure safety switch on the fuel pump. I have a full firesuit, with headsock, gloves and an SA rated helmet for when ever it goes on track....and a HANS device is on my Christmas list.
I am a firm believer that if you take your car to the track, and you spent more on wheels than you did on safety...you got it backwards!

Like

[shortrack]

I guess I went to the extreme with mine, full cage, through the firewall into engine bay, including a dash bar and seat mounts. I have a full fire system with the driver and engine bay protected. I don't have windows, but a window net. Also have battery cut off outside and inside and an oil pressure safety switch on the fuel pump. I have a full firesuit, with headsock, gloves and an SA rated helmet for when ever it goes on track....and a HANS device is on my Christmas list.
I am a firm believer that if you take your car to the track, and you spent more on wheels than you did on safety...you got it backwards!

post pics of your car

[parsonsj]

Here's a story from last weekend at Sebring. I took my Z06, making it back for the first since I ran at Homestead (Miami) in January 2012. The long hiatus was caused by several factors, but the main one was that I had to rebuild my engine (#7 piston broke a ring land).

I started to have problems with my car smoking during the second session, and it got really bad by the third. After just a couple of laps, I came in to the pits, got out of the car, opened the hood, and was greeted by flames coming off the header. I reached inside the car, grabbed my fire extinguisher, and put out the fire with a 2s burst.

If I hadn't had a fire extinguisher, my car would be history.

As for the fire, it was caused by an oil leak from the valve cover. Guess which gasket didn't get replaced during the engine rebuild?

Anyway, if you go to the track, take a fire extinguisher with you.

Now I'm considering installing a fire system, so any tech related to that would be most welcome.

[lvrpool32]

post pics of your car

This was at the new local track..with ken and Dirk (both forum members here)

[lvrpool32]

Now I'm considering installing a fire system, so any tech related to that would be most welcome.

I have a SPA AFFF set up from Pegasus Racing, https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...p?Product=2426
Pretty easy to install (an afternoon maybe..thats with planning out paths for the lines and drilling holes etc etc). Remember that these fire systems are designed essentially to allow the driver to get out of the car safely, not to actually save the car.

[dontlifttoshift]

I guess I went to the extreme with mine, full cage, through the firewall into engine bay, including a dash bar and seat mounts. I have a full fire system with the driver and engine bay protected. I don't have windows, but a window net. Also have battery cut off outside and inside and an oil pressure safety switch on the fuel pump. I have a full firesuit, with headsock, gloves and an SA rated helmet for when ever it goes on track....and a HANS device is on my Christmas list.
I am a firm believer that if you take your car to the track, and you spent more on wheels than you did on safety...you got it backwards!

I will never argue against safety.....ever. But looking at that list and seeing pics of your car.....because race car. Hitting that balance between street comfort/useability and safety at high speeds. That's the trick. There isn't a "perfect situation" where all parameters are met so it comes down to compromise. Every individual will draw the line in a different spot, and that individual's opinion will vary from car to car.

[lvrpool32]

Agreed, and as I sad my car is at the extreme end..it started out pro-touring and took a left towards Le Mans :-).
But sadly I see all too many cars that have 800hp engines and only 100hp of safety!

[MonzaRacer]

For me I really want more safety, yet being a P-T car means touring. IF I ripped Monza down to bare metal I WOULD hide as much of the cage as possible. Yet I am talking to couple of the ridetech guys about mixing and matching enough parts to run a TigerCage. Now as stated they havent gotten but one cert so far I do know Bret and crew DO design to the maximum performance value and after having wrecked one Monza I do know what their strengths are and stiffer would be even safer.
As for fire system, sure I will look around. I had found several systems removed because the companies went out, bought out, changed due to EPA.
So I looked at several Top Fuel fire bottles that used "other" stuff and could be upgraded to a type of foam, similar to the stuff used on aircraft carriers.
This stuff I was shown literally fills the enginecompartment with fire retardant foam, taking up all air space. it can also be pointed at the driver about waist high and fills bottom half of passenger compartment.
Also has couple nozzles that spray around the gas tankone above, between tank and body and on both sides and front. Fairly impressivesetup that allowed a guy to but older setups.
Now most of those setups are gone and havent talked to them in several years. But when car engulfed in flames from fuel leak goes out in litterally 2 or 3 seconds, and whole car WAS on fire. Like from a leak or such.
Still looking ,local fire safety business that does restaurants, and other businesses.
They have a product I am gonna look at and the application is similar.
The funny part was the first system I saw reminded me of a washing machine overflow.
But safety is part of our "business".

[Steve Chryssos]

Hitting that balance between street comfort/useability and safety at high speeds. That's the trick. There isn't a "perfect situation" where all parameters are met so it comes down to compromise. Every individual will draw the line in a different spot, and that individual's opinion will vary from car to car.

That's exactly right. There is no simple answer. There is, however, a way to present a series of scenarios that affect the safety gear decisions applied to each situation -- starting with the two biggies:
-- Just how fast will you actually go?
-- Will you have rear seat passengers?

There are other considerations, but you can get pretty far if you answer those two questions. Forego rear seat passengers and a 4 pt roll bar with harness bar and proper harnesses is an easy call.

There are also a few misconceptions such as "Old cars are safe because they used thicker metal back in the day". Dumb, and... "Roll bar tubing is hard, and therefore dangerous. Dumber. It's like saying "War is bad." Really? Don't let anyone tell you that your old car's dashboard, roof, or doors tickle on impact. They hurt. They're dangerous. That doesn't mean everyone should have a roll cage. Just don't assume that you're safe without one.

The real problem is that these cars are just plain fast. The biggest safety risks are $%^*-ing around on the street (cross traffic, on-coming traffic, immovable obstacles, pedestrians), as well as equipment failure and fire.

[MrQuick]

I will never argue against safety.....ever. But looking at that list and seeing pics of your car.....because race car. Hitting that balance between street comfort/useability and safety at high speeds. That's the trick. There isn't a "perfect situation" where all parameters are met so it comes down to compromise. Every individual will draw the line in a different spot, and that individual's opinion will vary from car to car.

I agree, I guarantee I'd get knocked out hitting my head on that bar pulling in the Seven Eleven parking lot.

[MrQuick]

That's exactly right. There is no simple answer. There is, however, a way to present a series of scenarios that affect the safety gear decisions applied to each situation -- starting with the two biggies:
-- Just how fast will you actually go?
-- Will you have rear seat passengers?

There are other considerations, but you can get pretty far if you answer those two questions. Forego rear seat passengers and a 4 pt roll bar with harness bar and proper harnesses is an easy call.

There are also a few misconceptions such as "Old cars are safe because they used thicker metal back in the day". Dumb, and... "Roll bar tubing is hard, and therefore dangerous. Dumber. It's like saying "War is bad." Really? Don't let anyone tell you that your old car's dashboard, roof, or doors tickle on impact. They hurt. They're dangerous. That doesn't mean everyone should have a roll cage. Just don't assume that you're safe without one.

The real problem is that these cars are just plain fast. The biggest safety risks are $%^*-ing around on the street (cross traffic, on-coming traffic, immovable obstacles, pedestrians), as well as equipment failure and fire.

well said.

[chevelletiger]

I put a 4pt roll bar with a removable cross bar,after getting a ride along in the 48hour camaro,and the schwartz performace tempest,and watching the rttc event at el torro...i just saw it as the smart thing to add to my car before even thinking i need more power under the hood.i said to my wife(i know that little small block 350 has enough power to kill or hurt myself ,so im installing the roll bar...she thinks it was a great idea.)i am thinking of doing the door bars too.phil

[mdprovee]

I am leaning towards a ridetech Tigercage because my two sons love to take rides in the car, and I dont want them banging their heads on bars.

But I am also keeping in mind, the whole side of the back seat area is metal body.

[Build-It-Break-It]

These old cars are definitely not safe. I'm installing a 10 point chassis works pro touring cage in my 68 Camaro if anyone was interested in seeing the fit, labor , etc. I'll start a new thread if anyone wanted to see. I also posted an interesting video below, maybe some of you have seen but for those who haven't....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ5P...e_gdata_player

[deak350]

My 2cents.
Two things happened to my circle of friends this year.

1. A passenger passed away after a car crash at a HPDE
2. A personal friends car burned to the ground at a HPDE

Since both events happened we have taken safety a bit more serious. We have installed a roll bar per the 2013 SCCA rule book and installed a fire suppression system. If you are going to Track Day your vehicle the speeds will be in excess and you are taking a chance if you are not properly prepared for the worst case scenario. My Camaro is driven weekly on the street and the roll bar doesn't really ever come into play besides the fact you cannot get in the back seat.
I don't know how or why most people in our group avoid the fact that Track Day events have the potential to be just as dangerous as racing.

[Ron Sutton]

Hey Guys,

I'm half way done with writing the start of the track safety thread. But some suspension design projects came up and I won't get to complete this & launch the thread until after SEMA.