1969 Firebird TA clone track car build

[c4racer2]

The manual brake setup seems to be a lot more finicky than power - everything has to be right - balance bar adjustment, MC sizes, pads, and air in lines.

I have a similar set-up on my car - also designed by Ron. I am using his brake package made in collaboration with StopTech which uses ST60/ST40 calipers and his own compound pads which are a combo street and track pad. They also need a bit of heat to really work well - but also the even the bedding is very critical to getting them functioning correctly. I spent a lot more time tweaking things to get it all working right. And even after two bedding sessions ended up with a bit more air in the lines (just a few bubbles) that I could really feel in the pedal. Spent a lot of time getting the balance bar adjusted correctly so that the masters were even at full braking force. that is a lot more critical than I realized - you need to make sure you know where the pushrods are at full brake force and they need to be close to even - I had to skew the rear with a much longer pushrod adjustment to get even master push at full braking. Before that was set-up correctly the braking was terrible because the fronts were not fully activating into that "bite zone"

The end result is very good. But it is different from a power set-up. The travel is a lot longer - almost double. But the bite zone as I call it is very consistent and easy to modulate. But you have to push further into the travel to get to that bite zone. The pedal pressure is actually not super firm on my set-up - takes less effort than my 2016 SS for example. But you have to push a few inches into the travel to get to the sweet spot. So it's a bit unnerving at first - but as you learn the pedal profile you gain confidence in it and can rely on it. But I swear any tiny bit of air in the lines or any tiny bit off on that balance bar adjustment throws it all out of whack. Power is way more forgiving. But it's pretty good with a good manual set-up once you get through all the teething and set-up pains.
My set-up uses 15/16" masters, but the ST calipers have a bit more PA than the Wildwood Aero.

Anyway - just wanted to add in my experience for others that are considering both approaches on brakes. In my case the motor doesn't make enough vacuum to consistently operate power brakes so manual was the easy choice. Sure could go hydroboost but I don't think that would give the feel I was looking for.
If I had a motor with better vacuum I would have gone the easier route with power boost. Even more so knowing what I know now on what it takes to set up manual brakes correctly. But that said - once set-up, they work very well and I really do like the feel and am getting used to the pedal travel quickly on the street - so I'm very happy with the brake package on my car right now.

[jlwdvm]

I have short legs, and the main issue I had with the manual set up was pedal travel on the street. Before I went to power, I had to think ahead all the time, and yes, it felt like I had air in the lines (when compared to my Boss 302, z/28, or GT350R). The feel of the power system is much more to my liking!

[Larry Callahan]

Awesome job!!!!!! I hope to get to see it in person some day.

[c4racer2]

I have short legs, and the main issue I had with the manual set up was pedal travel on the street. Before I went to power, I had to think ahead all the time, and yes, it felt like I had air in the lines (when compared to my Boss 302, z/28, or GT350R). The feel of the power system is much more to my liking!

I had to bleed mine about 5 times with hard drive cycles in between to get all the air out. Finally did and the pedal feel is great. Travel still longer than a power set-up for sure. I am neutral which I like better - I can drive either just as effectively. But I have long legs and I am 6' so I have lots of mechanical leverage there!

[jlwdvm]

Track day #2 in the books. The only issue I am having is a trans fluid leak. I suspect it is coming from my Bowler Quick Shifter...it only shows up during track driving. There is quite a bit of oil on the underside of the car. I should have an autopsy done by the end of the week. I’ll probably be giving Bowler a call. I installed BP-30 pads and they made a world of difference...along with the DSE power booster install! I’m getting some noise from the rear brakes during slow speed driving. Wonders if it is a bedding issue.

- - - Updated - - -

[jlwdvm]

I got around to checking some video and lap times via Harry's Lap Timer ap.....I'm running identical lap times to my 2015 Z/28, and I'm still getting used to the 69 and tweaking a few things!

[jlwdvm]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]167783[/ATTACH

]I was having a brake dragging/rubbing sound coming from the rears, so I decided to investigate. Initially, I wrote it off as having switched to the BP30 pads. I also had the feeling the rear brakes were dragging as I got going from a complete stop. I ended up finding a crushed section of the copper line on my rear. I have a feeling that I bottomed out in a section of Autobahn called "The Jump". I assume I had pressure building up in that caliper. I don't currently have bump stops on the rear because I didn't think I would need them with the 4-link and ridetech shocks. There is a witness mark on the frame rail on the passenger side where the tab-line hit. There was a faint mark on the drivers side where the tab hit, but didn't damage the brake line. I ended up dropping the rear to move and re-weld tabs on for the rear lines as well as bending up a new line for the passenger side. The rear had a weird chalky film on it that wouldn't clean off and the paint didn't look good, so I cleaned it up and repainted while it was down. I also took the opportunity to loose the u-bolts that held the lower are brackets on and welded them to the rear. I also installed new 4-link bars that have the new ridetech R-Joints.

[BlackHD]

What is the new position of the re-welded tabs?

[jlwdvm]

I ended up moving both sides down to the 3:00 and 9:00 position on the axle tubes (as you are looking at the axle) to get them out of harm's way. Looking into placing a bump stop on eaah side as well.

[BlackHD]

Did you ever talk to ridetech regarding the rear springs and wanting to go lower? I’m in the same position where I’d like to go lower but the coilover is set where I cant go any lower or the spring will become loose. I have the 12” springs. Any insight would be appreciated, thanks!

[egoman]

All the coilover manufacturers make a take up spring for just this purpose.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...0&vt=0&eim=1,6

[jlwdvm]

My rear springs only unload when I jack the body up and the rear axle drops. It's not a big deal. I just have to crawl under the car and check that the springs are seated after weight is placed on the suspension. I haven't posted in a while...this 66 has kept me busy!

[68400BIRD]

Now we really need some updates.

[Darrylta]

The project is looking great! Kinda wished you would have stayed with Pontiac powered, but I understand the advantages of the LS motors.
Your choice of parts is great too! Love the DSE stuff!
Darryl

[Darrylta]

Nice car, What paint system did you use on the white, single stage or 2 stage?
Darryl

[jlwdvm]

Tracked the care once this summer at Autobahn. There had been a 2" rain the night before, so there was water on the track in numerous spots. Another uneventful day.
The car has a full ridetech suspension system from front to back. Everything is overbuilt. That's probably why I don't have problems at the track. I checked some lap times and this thing gets the identical times that my '15 Z/28 did.
I did all of the body work up to final primer and color. I used SPI primers and we used a single stage paint. It sitill looks as good today as it did when it rolled out of the paint shop 3 years ago!
I have a 510 horse injected 363 with a TKX waiting on the shelf to go into this thing!

[TANKMASTERJ]

Never head anyone say oh, I wish I HADNT put the LS or LT in my car. I'm sure you will be glad you did.
Your build is coming along nicely considering you got married and moved, those are big life changes. Keep it up I love the TA.
Always loved the rear deck spoiler actually thought of putting one on my 67 Camaro I liked it so much!
Keep it up Joe
Jason

[68Formula]

Never head anyone say oh, I wish I HADNT put the LS or LT in my car.

Ta-da! Post #39: https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...=712051&page=2