SCCA is considering adding Pro Touring classes.

[AutoX_a_Truck?]

Because this is a new supplement for just our Region, we can create it to be anything we want.



I like where you are going with the above. The only question I have is how does that description relate to the 2012 Dodge Challenger that is currently running with us? Would Dodge still be considered a "United States Based" manufacturer and dealership with their new ownership?

I would like the class to include all larger typically American made muscle cars without exclusions, but not leave the door open for a 4 door Porsche Caymen or a Toyota Camry to sneak in. I believe the new Camaro, new Challenger, possibly even the new Mustangs might enjoy running in this class instead of F Stock or SM where they typically get stuck now. Heck we had an almost completely factory 2012 Mustang out with a aftermarket supercharger on it couple of events ago and they stuck him in XP.

The only air tight method is probably to list specific makes and models that are eligible as well as specific makes and models that are not eligible similar to the SCCA rule book. A comprehensive list isn't really feasible so maybe examples would be better. The tricky part is coming up with all of the outliers.

As a starting point, it is somewhat easy to define most of the General Motors cars that I think you are trying to capture in the spirit of the class with a relatively simple rule:

RWD General Motors A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, K, V (2004-2006 Pontiac GTO), X, and Y-Bodies (1960-1964) in addition to Alpha and Zeta Platforms

[SSLance]

The Salina Region runs a STO and STU class... Street Tire, O=Over and U=under The limiting factor is the engine displacement. Haven't found out what the cutoff is yet though.

Limit ours to 5.0 lt and up maybe? Maybe make the engine block be of the same manufacturer of the body to keep someone from putting an LS1 in a Miata and running this class?

[jtwoods4]

Any updates as to these Pro Touring classes are they going to be added?

[Steve Chryssos]

Lance,
Thanks for taking on this challenge. Ultimately the SCCA's might will only help the cause.

With so much history, we can look back and see that the lowest common denominator with pro-touring is the degree of chassis modification. There are cars with "Bolt-On" suspension and the "Anything Goes" cars. As someone with an an aftermarket subframe and link type rear suspension (a torque arm and coil-overs), I'm okay with being separated from another Camaro with leaf springs and a stock sub. I would build two classes around that.

As for make and model, I never thought of my Camaro as "big" until my first SCCA autocross. A Miata with an LS swap is still a very small nimble car and therefore not in the same league as our muscle cars. Cut off year is always the toughest discussion. However the SCCA rulebook is already well structured for fox body Mustangs. For better or worse, set the cut-off relative to that car. It will allow for the fewest exceptions including your car.

[72BBSwinger]

Years 55-72 like some others. Or 55-76 so the T/A guys can play to. I'd like to see a 275 tire class with stock suspension mounting points but pretty much anything else goes. Be cool to see how some of these cars would do without all the rack and pinions and coilovers.

[Red67Mustang]

Similar to the concept of limiting by displacement... "STO and STU class... Street Tire, O=Over and U=under The limiting factor is the engine displacement." But different....

Has anyone considered doing what I understand the American Iron series does, and classify cars solely by pounds per horsepower? I believe the AI series is for anything over 10 lbs per horsepower and AIX (extreme) is for under 10 lbs per horsepower. I understand modifications are not limited, all you need to know is the weight if your car and a relatively recent dyno sheet.

I heard somewhere that the winning cars were weighed after the race to confirm that aspect, I don't know if a dyno is also on hand... I can see how that would pose a challenge.

[soloracerSD]

Similar to the concept of limiting by displacement... "STO and STU class... Street Tire, O=Over and U=under The limiting factor is the engine displacement." But different....

Has anyone considered doing what I understand the American Iron series does, and classify cars solely by pounds per horsepower? I believe the AI series is for anything over 10 lbs per horsepower and AIX (extreme) is for under 10 lbs per horsepower. I understand modifications are not limited, all you need to know is the weight if your car and a relatively recent dyno sheet.

I heard somewhere that the winning cars were weighed after the race to confirm that aspect, I don't know if a dyno is also on hand... I can see how that would pose a challenge.

SCCA SM is liter x 200 +1800=Lb of car... if turbo add 1.4 to liters ... if on 275 wide tires or smaller drop 200 lb probably better to change liters x 200 to liters x 260 for protouring

[Steve Chryssos]

Years 55-72 like some others. Or 55-76 so the T/A guys can play to. I'd like to see a 275 tire class with stock suspension mounting points but pretty much anything else goes. Be cool to see how some of these cars would do without all the rack and pinions and coilovers.

Nice, except that the dude spearheading the effort has an 85 Monte. Let him play.

[SSLance]

lol... I'm not really spearheading it on a national level, there are plenty of others with more clout working on that effort.

But I would like the chance to play once it's all ironed out.

Preliminary talk shows 5-7 guys willing to run in our Region's Street Car Class next season. I really hope that pans out for sure or even better would be a few more than that to run in it regularly.

[GrabberGT]

SCCA SM is liter x 200 +1800=Lb of car if turbo add 1.4 to liters if on 275 wide tires or smaller drop 200 lb probably better to change liters x 200 to liters x 260 for protouring

Is that for minimum weight? If so, Im pretty overweight/underpowered by even the X 260 calc. LOL

I dont like the SCCA classes. Its way too confusing. I competed in the ESP a month ago against 2 other cars. They could have lumped all the muscle cars together and had a much larger field.

[soloracerSD]

Accually the classes in SCCA are pretty easy to understand. F-Stock is mostly Mustangs and Camaros That just have one swaybar change and replacement shock or brake pad.E-Street Prepared either the upper or lower front A-arm( Not Both) can be changed also the rear upper.Watts pan hard bars can be added,stock block and heads.intake and exhaust manifolds are open.Both FS and ESP must have all interior.SM rear seat can be removed.All suspension can be replaced but use stock mounts.and whats allowed in ESP is allowed in SM.But SM allows any ford motor in ford product and GM in GMs and motors can be built an turbos can be added but can't in ESP stock internals for ESP. Then theres CP and XP.SM prepped Muscle cars can easily beat a ESP car with equal driver.FS and ESP can run in SM or even XP all together if they choose to.
At our events we have some Muscle cars in STX.But I often tell them you would probably like it better in ESP.Fewer compact cars in ESP then STX.You can ask muscle cars from FS and STX to join you in ESP.

The rule book has more details but this covers the basics.

Yes it is minimum weight there is even another weight drop rule or allowance for Street Modified (SM)..Live axle cars can drop 25lb per liter.Has anyone built a nice Protouring Vega or SM car? can a Vega be considered a protouring car?

[SSLance]

What exactly is the sway bar rule as far as SM is concerned, I still haven't gotten a clear answer on that? Stock mounting location is what I always interpreted...

[soloracerSD]

I'll have to get my rule book and read up on that..If there is any suspension piece that can be moved .You would think that would be the sway-bar.To add if you have a rear four-link you can relocate their upper mounts on the axle.But not the frame in ESP.If you have a leafspring you can add control arms. BTW the rule book is online at SCCA.com (Solo rule book.read pages 81 to 113 I think .You will then know STX,STREET PREPARED(ESP) and Street Modified (SM) classes.I'll look forit to.

What exactly is the sway bar rule as far as SM is concerned, I still haven't gotten a clear answer on that? Stock mounting location is what I always interpreted...

[soloracerSD]

I think I have the answer to your sway-bar question.First it's good to have your own rule book..Much easier then the computer one..Basicly the classes that come before SM .Those mods are allowed in SM even if they aren't written there in SM.The book doesn't want to repeat it's self..that would make it 3 times bigger.Heres what I found. in Street Touring class page 84.

14.7ANTI-Roll Bar
Substitution,addition,or removal of any ant-roll bars is permitted bushing material,method of attachment,and location points are unrestricted,

Then it goes on saying you can't cut holes to route the bar or do other structure work for the purpose of the bar.Just that you can drill holes for bolts and mount it nothing more.I think welding in a little plate for a mount would be ok.Just don't turn it into a cross brace and call it a sway-bar mount...

this is out of the 2013 SCCA National Solo rule book
When I have a question. I call Doug Gill at the SCCA office.I've asked him several SM to Pro-touring related questions.He'll take your calls.

What exactly is the sway bar rule as far as SM is concerned, I still haven't gotten a clear answer on that? Stock mounting location is what I always interpreted...

[rustomatic]

What's wrong with losing to a CP car that came on a trailer, but beating the snot out of somebody in a Cayman (cockster) or M3, then driving home? There's always somebody bigger and faster, but to pull the stuffing out of a stuffed shirt of a car (through turns, no less), while proudly sporting a bit of rust and bad Bondo (proper noun, folks, hence the capitalization), what's not fun about that? I'd pay just to watch!

Sorry, but my sense of competitiveness is damaged...

[Turbo6inKY]

Andrew, can you clear up exactly what this means? I am putting together in my head a way to propose this idea to our SAC and I'd like to be sure I know what this means exactly beforehand.

For instance, Tyler runs with us every now and then with his Scout II body sitting on what I believe is at least a partial S10 truck chassis, all heavily modified. Does that qualify as a "series produced vehicle"?

I've already talked with our SAC chair and he is on board with the idea...just wants me to put it together and present it at the next regular meeting. Says we may even work it into a couple of events yet this year if we want.

This whole thing worked itself out with CAM, but series produced meant pretty much anything that was built on an assembly line (no one-offs). Your friend's Scout-10 would have been quite welcomed.

Sorry it took me two and a half years to respond. People get busy sometimes...

[SSLance]

People get busy sometimes...

Lol... I hear ya Andrew. Thanks for the reply though.

[the450r]

I'm apologizing in advance. Most of this is way over my head. I have a pro touring car. id love to try at my local scca events but I know nothing about it. How to join, requirements, what class I would be in, ect. This pro touring class sounds perfect for me. Is there an idiots guide to scca or a trail visit before I jump clear in? How long will it take each region to try these new classes?

[Turbo6inKY]

Fastest way to really learn is to find your local region and go watch an event.

CAM is active in all SCCA affiliated regions now. It's a national class, so you can run it everywhere.

[SSLance]

I'm apologizing in advance. Most of this is way over my head. I have a pro touring car. id love to try at my local scca events but I know nothing about it. How to join, requirements, what class I would be in, ect. This pro touring class sounds perfect for me. Is there an idiots guide to scca or a trail visit before I jump clear in? How long will it take each region to try these new classes?

Are you on Facebook? There is a facebook group specifically for CAM participants that is very helpful for all. Where in Nebraska are you? I'm trying to think of who else is running CAM in the Nebraska Region.

Like Andrew said, find your local region and show up at an event and watch. If you have a helmet, take it and get some ride alongs. For the most part, the group is very welcoming to noobies and will make you feel right at home. I"m not far away in KC, if you need anymore help...just ask.