I love that green! Is it factory color?
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I love that green! Is it factory color?
Yes paint code 43 Oldsmobile Lime Green for 1971Quote:
Originally Posted by vwmopar
Here's a close up of that triangular piece that will serve as the direct bolting location for the belt as well as the removable door bar top mount
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For reference points on the other side here's a good pic for locations:
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Where that main hoop goes into the armrest is the ONLY spot it will fit. There is less than 1/8 of an inch all the way around it. The rectangle drawn in sharpie is where the light is relocated to and the circle drawn in sharpie is where the support bar that will be welded to the piece of steel and main hoop will go. Also notice the spacer I have by the power window. There must be about 3/4"space between the bar and the rear door panel for when the belt attaches to the triangular piece referenced above because the belt sticks out about 3/4" on each side.
This is what is directly under the armrest. This tress support pic is the passenger side with the front of the car to the left. The main hoop will go just to the left of this and then through the floor board to the frame. You can see there is just enough room for the bar there and no way to go slightly forward or slightly back. That is the one and only spot the bar can go assuming you're going through the armrest and you don't plan on cutting or notching this tress support. I originally wanted the bar to be more towards the rear of the car which would have required cutting this. Decided not to for a few reasons - first it is some serious metal so you better have a beast of a saw, second not really sure of the negatives for cutting it, and third I found out later - if you go any further back you will go outside the NHRA requirement for the rear bar that it can only be 6" behind the back of the helmet of the driver when sitting in the drivers seat. I'm right at about 5 3/4" where it is now. Again even though this won't be 100% NHRA correct because the rear bar and down bars are removable, I'm trying to make it as close as possible on everything else. If nothing else going by most of the rules and guidelines should make for a safer ride. Obviously all those rules are there to provide the most protection possible.
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Made a little more progress here. Started by getting rid of the massive "elbows" sticking out with the PVC pipe 45 degree bends. It just was way off on how it's going to be with a bar bend so I used duct tape and cutting to try to get it as close to a "curve" as I could. This also allowed me to get better placement/fit around and under the convertible top for when the real bars go in. Then I wanted to figure out how I was going to do the roll bar padding and cover. Found a company with the foam that would go around the bars (for street driving) and got some factory original vinyl to go around that. Unfortunately the bend with the duct tape and pvc pipe is still too "sharp" of a turn for the padding and material to go around without bending up so had to duct tape around the corners. Looks fugly still but again just getting a better and better idea on how the finished product will look. When all this is redone by a professional interior shop it should look really clean. Last I started off with everything being white and hated the way it looked so painted the vinyl black and like it MUCH better. I will just order the factory original black vinyl to go around the final product and have it secured around the padding with either velcro or snaps. I need everything to be removable for track days so I can replace all this covering with the correct NHRA approved padding.
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- - - Updated - - -
Really happy with how the shoulder harness belts came out:
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I had Legendary make me a custom rear vinyl piece with the correct pearl white and 71 wood grain to go over the new armrest area that now houses/hides parts of the bars and belts. I just taped it in place to see how it looks but again once a professional interior person does this for me I think it will look great. I also got a roll of just the pearl white vinyl material to cover the other areas.
https://static1.pt-content.com/image..._zpsvhkj-1.jpg
Tag...love your car Joe!
Looking forward to seeing it "finished"...
- Another Cutlass owner (Stephen)
Thanks Stephen. I'm looking forward seeing it finished too!! Hoping 6 speed and rollbar will be done early next year, then I can get the paint and body work done before summer. We'll see.Quote:
Originally Posted by ah64pilot
I think I know you're Supreme too. Is it grey or silver? I remember one of your build threads on one of the sites a while back. Very nice car you've go there too!!
Yep that's it! Posted a build thread in update section although I won't be going into detail like I did over at CO. Titled Wild Bill - 1972 Cutlass Supreme.Quote:
Originally Posted by 71OLDS
So if I might ask, I've got Global West tubular control arms up front that are made for coil springs. I was thinking about a 2" drop spring from BMR but now I'm thinking maybe just a 1" drop spring and a 1" drop spindle. Have you noticed any undesirable effects going with the drop spindle? I ordered 18x8.5" wheels up front with a 26x10" tire, measured ok but that was before drop. Little worried it might rub if I do this the wrong way.
Oh yeah I see your post now. That's the car I remember. Very nice. I'm extremely partial to the 70 -72 Supreme body style...convertible or hard top. Very nice job w/yours. Glad to hear you're converting to pro-touring. I love driving mine hard in corners or straights!!
To answer your questions - The B-body spindle I went with was more about improving the stock geometry than lowering the car. The stock spindle geometry of our car is like this \ / from a front view meaning the car is in a "leaning" geometry to start with. The stiffer springs and sway bar help so you lean less but if you go too stiff you will really start to hurt your launch from a stop (for track or street straight line racing). The b-body spindles change the geometry to this / \ so now your car is in an "anti-lean" geometry and going with the springs and sway bar help that even more but you don't have to go as crazy with it to still be able to corner well even with our heavy cars. Of course you will also need the quick ratio steering box, high end shocks (adjustable even better) and the wider wheels and tires all around. For the record my spindles lowered the front by .75" pushed out the front wheels by .625" so the backspace has to be adjusted accordingly on the rims to account for that push-out. Just make sure you don't buy your rims then add the spindles after the fact because it could cause an issue with the fit.
{UPDATE - I would NOT suggest the B-body spindles - although everything above is mostly correct for the suspension geometry the issue is the problems caused by the B-body spindles for the steering geometry - I have now been educated on the issues here and I what I thought was problems with my steering box is actually the problems the B-body spindles are causing me. I will be replacing the Bbody spindles and upper control arms w/the AFX spindle kit from SC&C and getting a new Lee 800 box as well. Unfortuantely I will also be required to swap the front brake system from my current Baer 13" Track setup to Baer 13" GT kit for the AFX spindles}
I am still working out all "bugs" if you will with my suspension so I can't fully and properly answer your question about "undesirable effects". My AGR steering box is now 12 years old and is having issues so I need to replace that and I converted to a coil over setup and went with 500 springs but they are just too soft for me. Awesome for launching with my 305/45/18 drag radials but I want to go a little stiffer (600) and I'm hoping with that and the new steering box I'll be right where I want to be. I have QA1 adjustable shocks that I have set on #8 setting now for better corners with the 500 springs but I'm hoping with the 600 spring and a #6 setting I'll be able to have my cake and eat it too on the street for decent launching and corners. The for the track I change the shocks to #1 and remove the front sway bar.
My front rims are 18x8 w/a 255/45/18 Nitto 555 tire. It's 27.1" tall and I honesty don't think I could fit more tire in there and still turn lock to lock without rubbing. Also I have 28.78 tires in the rear and have the car sitting (stance) so the top of the wheel well is about an inch below the top of the tire. That's the way I like it and I can't go any lower without issues turning lock to lock going in and out of entrance ways/driveways etc. Also because my tires are taller my headers are still about 5" off the ground at the lowest point so I can even go over speed bumps if I have to. The reason I'm telling you all this is because there's no way a 26" tall tire would work for my set up. I'd either have a big gap above the tire below the wheel well or very little ground clearance. My 255/45/18 has a 10.1" section with too so I think you will be fine there if you find the sweet spot with the BS on that rim.
I'm guessing if you go with the 2" drop you will have ground clearance issues and if you go with the 1" drop you will have a gap above the tire. I really think you need a taller tire to get the stance right and the clearance right but that's just been my experience with the shorter tires. Hopefully you can figure out a way to make it work.
-Joe
I love your seat belts! Do you think that area would be suitable for seat belts without the roll bar? I really like the stock look but I don't plan on putting a cage in.
I'm sure you could close in that area the same way w/o the roll bar sticking out but would have to find a way to secure the belts. One note the 2004 Nissan 350 Z convertible belts I used were $500. You can get standard 3 pt belts for much cheaper but not sure how they would "set up" in that location. I used these belts because that's the car my wife drives so I had a sample to copy from. It turned out to be much different than I thought (as far as location, where I bolt them down - top and bottom, and how they function) but after lots of trial and error I got it all figured out. You could probably do the same with belts at 1/2 the cost but I would guess many things would be different from my set up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lickity Split
-Joe
The wifey asked me to mock it up w/o the down bars (main hoop and shoulder harness only)
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Then she brought up some good points. With just the main hoop welded to the frame I still get rollover protection and the new use of the shoulder harness w/o giving up the back seat. We do take friends and family on cruises around the beach or even longer drives. Of course they can still ride in the back w/the down bars but they would have to "adjust" around the bar and of course if I got into a bad wreck I understand the bars back there would put them at risk for head injury. Also with the additional hidden support bar I will have that goes from the main hoop to the steel brace technically the setup will still be a 4 pt even w/o the visible down bars. This bar will be welded to the main hoop and then to the steel brace seen in the 2nd pic just above the conv top cylinder:
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I think she brings up some good points here. Of course the negative is without the down bars, cross bars, door bars, and 5 pt harness, I'll be limited to the 1/8 mile track only. I thought about having the down bars be removable but the part that would have to stick out on the main hoop about 2" just looks terrible. Plus it would stick out far enough to still cause possible head injury for back seat passengers if there was a bad wreck. So for the downbars it is either yes or no. My removable idea didn't work there. The cross bar can be removable but of course that is not NHRA legal so not sure if I could get by at a track w/that anyway. The door bars can easily be added later and can be removable so I'm not as worried about them.
I'm leaning towards starting with just this setup (main hoop, support bar, & shoulder belts) and sticking w/the 1/8 mile track for now. I can always add the other bars later pretty easily. I think it would make the car more like some of the factory installed roll bars in convertibles like these below but I would also have the shoulder belts:
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Finally stepped up and ordered the 6 speed today:
Magnum TR6060 6 speed (2.66, 1.78,1.30,1.00, .8, .63) should be arriving at the shop next week sometime. Next I need to get the car on a flat bed from VA to MD. Frank will be doing several projects this round including:
1. 6 speed install
2. swapping out 3.31 gears for 4.10 - going to keep the 3.31s in case I need to put them back in down the road if and when the motor is upgraded.
3. converting over to hyd clutch - going with the American powertrain one
4. adding an oil cooler
5. adding an electric fuel pump to help with vapor lock and the manual pump losing it's prime. Electric pump will only be used for these issues not run all the time.
6. Removing B-body spindles and replacing with AFX aluminum spindles - will also include swapping out upper control arms and front rotors so everything is compatible - going with the full SC&C kit. As well as a new Lee 800 steering box to replace my 12 year old leaking AGR box.
7. going from 500 front coil over springs to 600 - will keep 500s in case I need/want to put them back in down the road but they are just a little too soft for my liking on the street. Great for launching not so great for corners.
8. Roll bar - full permanent 4 pt (main hoop and down bars) with built in shoulder harness front seat belts from a 2004 Nissan 350z convertible. The belts and part of the roll bar will be hidden in a custom enclosure built into where the armrest is right now in the rear seats. The cross bar and the door bars will be removable and only added for track days. I understand the crossbar can't be removable per NHRA guidelines but I'm doing it anyway. Will have 4 pt bars fully padded and back seat passengers will ride at their own risk. There will be room for 2 in the back still or even 3 if the 2 on the outside can live with the down bar pad against their ribs.
Another update - Just purchased:
**Street comp AFX spindle kit from SC&C that includes the forged aluminum AFX tall spindle with C7 Corvette hub and bearing pack, stock A body steering arms, and adjustable upper controls arms - will be going with the "aggressive street" settings/alignment.
**Baer GT 13" GT rotors that are compatible with the AFX Spindles
**Lee 800 steering box 12.7:1 at 1275 psi to match my hydroboost and current pump
**SC&C heavy duty tubular chassis brace to help "triangulate" the front frame horns to improve steering response and chassis stiffness - this was a must with my convertible and the entire front end being fiberglass (fenders, bumper, and hood) - needed something for additional support. The frame and glass panels deflect and move too much right now plus the steering box is just hanging out there imparting all it's steering load on just one frame rail. This chassis brace will eliminate all these issues.
My B-body spindles, Baer 13" track rotors, Hotchkis B-body compatible upper control arms, and my 12 year old leaking AGR steering box will all be coming off.
Nothing but frustrating delays on everything. Front end parts and 6 speed trans were both ordered 7 weeks ago. Tremec stopped making the Magnum 2.66 6 speed for 5 weeks so mine finally shipped today. Then I got an update from SC&C that the company that makes the aluminum AFX spindles won't have another run of them completed until end of April at the earliest which means they won't be assembled and to me until May/June time frame. Unfortunately the B-body spindles will have to go back on for now until these spindles are finally ready.
Finally some positive news and progress. The Magnum 6 speed arrived at the shop today. Also Mark at SC&C had a customer change plans and return a set of AFX spindles that will be arriving at the shop next week. So I don't have to wait until May/June now on anything but the aluminum steering arm. Will go with the stock steering arm until the aluminum ones are made with the AFX spindles. Will still have the bumpsteer unfortunately until the steering arms are swapped out but at least I will have the AFX spindles installed and the new GT 13" rotors.
The car has been stripped down in preparation for the trans and the 4.10 gears have already been installed. Also had Frank shorten up the battery shut off switch that stuck out way too far in the "on" position. Here are a few pics. Hoping to have lots more over the coming weeks as the progress happens.
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Another delay/issue - American Powertrain sent the wrong bell housing for the Magnum 6 speed so have to order the correct one. Also hoping Frank can work his magic and swap out the shifter handle that came with the 6 speed (it's rounded instead of a rectangle like the originals were) with a late 60's Hurst "442" handle like this one:
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I'm sure there will be several challenges to make it work on the 6 speed trans but also fit into the new hole and fit and shift through all 6 gears without hitting on the factory 4 speed console. Like my 5 speed did:
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Brian Trick has one of these shifter handles I can buy from him so fingers are crossed. I know the "Hurst" is the correct shifter handle for my 71 442 (used that on my 5 speed you can see it in the pic) but I have always loved that "442" one.
Some good news and some bad - the good news is the aluminum steering arms are available now and will be sent to the shop with my new aluminum spindles. Now everything can be installed this go round instead of installing stock steering arms temporarily so really happy about that.
Not so good is how the McLeod street twin looks.
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Lots of nasty black spots from heat caused most likely by disks dragging or improper shimming or throwout bearing not getting proper travel out for full release. Whatever caused it going to have to send the entire kit back to McLeod to be serviced - Service includes surfacing the flywheel, surface or replace floater, new disc facings, and rebuild the pressure plate. Then put it back together and shim it properly and check for engagement and release.
Four ten gears might be fun, but there is a significant increase in driveshaft speed, which can definitely cause some driveline vibrations. I don't know your exact tire size, but I suspect the driveshaft will be spinning close to 4000RPM at 75mph, which is pretty fast...
Andrew