Car "purists" really get on my nerves after a while.

[MidnightSpecial]

Every time I drive down to the local autoparts store I get a few people looking and there is always at least 1 person who comments about how I need to go back to factory. They really roll their eyes when I say what my goal is for the car.

"What would you do to it if you had the money you wanted?"

"Buy a salvage SRT10 Ram and pull out the Viper Motor, lower it down, stiffen it up, throw a cage in it, etc"

"Man you are just gonna ruin the car. Its not even a Coronet after you do all that"

First of all I have a Coronet Deluxe. Not an R/T, 500, or a Superbee. Its not like I'm cutting up the rare of the rare. After i say this the of course come back with. "Well just clone it"........Thats more of a lie than me cutting it up and making a PT car.

Im not bashing people who clone or restore....but i dont see the logic that what i plan is any different.

If you want to bash someone for what they want to do to a car they own....then buy it and save it. Now if you are saving a friend from making is car look stupid...by all means, hate away.

/rant

[Black93GT]

I agree with you and I get it all the time as well.

I'll be working away in the garage only to have some random guy walk up after driving by and seeing what i'm doing. I always her about how much more it would be worth if it was numbers matching and returned to original. At this point I have a scripted response about it only being a damaged, rusted and optionless plain jane 327 2spd powerglide that was already non-numbers matching... so I don't feel bad about slamming the car, adding mini-tubs and a cage.

[hotrodneb]

Deal with this crap on motorcycles too.....my standard line-----

"You aren't supposed to like it....I am"

(It has particular significance when you are covered in black leather, wearing dark glasses/do-rag, and carrying a gun in your pocket)

[m45]

I am new to this forum and this seems a good place as any to open my pie hole, I just purchased a mopar A-body for very cheap (pics to come) ,It was in the farmers field. I too get irritated with the whole purist thing ! my plan for the dart is PT with an ls engine and t56 .It will be a slow build(out of town alot) but most likely the most enjoyable....

[srh3trinity]

It doesn't bother me. To the general public, they start to glaze over when i start getting into the details of my build. The car guys I hang out with are up for just about anything. I do get tired of the "are you gonna put the bird on the hood?" People really get bummed out when I tell them it isn't a TA, it is a Firebird and that I have no intention of turning it into a TA or "putting the bird on it"

[Iamtheonlyreal1]

Ha Ha.. I have a whole car community ganging up on me with hate mail and rude comments, because I am taking an obscure car that doesnt really have any Value or Rare Models, and developing updated parts.. I have dealt with purist in the past, but these guys really take the cake, because there really isnt any reason for their thought.. They can spend 30k+(Not that they actually do) refreshing a car, and then the damn thing will be lucky to bring 12k if it was sold, and that is because the people that say they appreciate these cars, dont really care enough to pay anythinng for them.

I can definitely understand rare or historic cars, but most of the time, the Fake Purist are talking out of their ass's. I say fake purist, because from my experience, most of the people doing the originality talking dont even own a car.. They just automatically think that all cars should be original, because they watch too much Barrett Jackson on Tv, so they think their pseudo intelligent thinking applies to all cars. Most of the guys that are dedicated to a particular model, so much so that you could call them a purist, actually realize that it doesnt apply to all optioned models of their specialized appreciation.

[SSLance]

Coming from someone that has been around some of the best of the best pure cars being put together and sold, I'd much rather drive and enjoy them than put them together to look at...and eventually sell because they aren't any fun any more.

[parsonsj]

Cars built in the 60s and 70s suck. GM's Suggest-A-Steer, Kinda Brakes, and DoorHandle Deluxe handling aren't any fun to drive. Add in the Lap Belt Non-Restraints, Driveway Oiling System, and No Traction Tires, and those guys can keep their safety-challenged, poor-handling, and low horsepower vehicles. :)

[andrewb70]

I personally really enjoy hearing how every other person that talks to me says "I used to have one just like it" and how they are glad that I kept the stock "shaker scoop." LOL

Andrew

[SSLance]

My partner had a 1955 Belair Convertible in a box basically... Bought it with a restored frame with a rebuilt completely numbers matching engine sitting in it, bare shell of a no-rust body sitting on the frame and 8 pallets of original or OEM replacement parts with it. Sat on it for over 15 years because he couldn't decide what to do with it.

Conventional wisdom said to restore it because of ALL of the original parts there and the condition of everything, but who in the hell wants a 1955 shoe box with an anemic 265, drum brakes all the way around and a 20" diameter steering wheel to drive around in? Completely useless car to drive in today's world.

Finally sold it as is to a guy who had thoughts of resto-modding the car. Once he got it all home and started digging through everything, ran into the same dilemma, he's been going back and forth with the same decision...for almost 2 years now.

Thing is, the car's worth about the same amount...restored or resto-modded...if done right, so why not resto-mod it and at least make it driveable?

[Thephranc]

The AMC purists give me grief for the Chevy/Ford drive train but the general public just thinks its a Pinto.

[cornfedbill]

As they say' "Anyone can restore one, but it takes a real man to cut one up."

I think what a man does with his own car is his own business. I bought my Nova in 1978. It was stone stock and looked brand new. The stock 145 HP 350 and 4-wheel manual drums were not much fun. I am building it to drive, not to collect dust in a museum.

[carguykeith]

You just need to pick crappier cars, turns out nobody cares I hacked up an 81 regal with a diesel...

[gak68]

I was talking to some guy and I told him my plan about putting a LQ4 engine in my car and re-vamping the suspension to make it handle better, etc,etc. He said why not just put a 283 in it and keep it stock. I told him I thought it was pathetic because basically you end up pouring all this money into a car that can get its doors blown off by a Nissan Maxima. My reasoning to build a pro touring car is that you want your classic to be competitive with modern machines.

[Kenova]

....then buy it and save it.
I have actually said that. Shuts them up pretty quick.



They can spend 30k+(Not that they actually do) refreshing a car, and then the damn thing will be lucky to bring 12k if it was sold, and that is because the people that say they appreciate these cars, dont really care enough to pay anythinng for them.

This could just as easily apply to a multitude of other cars, like Vegas, Monzas, Gremlins, Pintos, etc, etc.

Ken

[Boatmark]

I know what you mean. My project is a Corvette. With so many Corvette people worrying about having the correct hose clamp orientation, my changing bodywork, drivetrain, and suspension sends them into cardiac arrest. But I have had this car since 1985 (when it was just a five year old used car) and I am going to do whatever I feel like to it.

I appreciate a restored car, and am glad people build them, but the purist world will get along just fine without my 78' generic Corvette.

[bmbrzmn101]

I am going through this now with my El camino. I resto modded it some 20 years ago and I was ok with it, just wanted a better driver and updated the suspension and brakes along with a few other little upgrades. Be at a show and everyone was "she looks good for a stocker". Well thanks, but she's not. I would explain some of what had been done and why, then the inevitable comment of why would you do that to the car? You destroyed the value.

Well let's see Elky's have never been known for their value, my safety ranks up there though(disc brake upgrade) and I enjoy going fast through turns(suspension upgrades). These are just the beginning.

Flash forward to the present, I just started last week slowly pulling it apart for the 2nd time and doing it slowly so I can decide on some mods as I go or design while it's still assembled. But the conversations are still the same. Why would you? You should leave it as is. on and on.

So I explain why I am willing to spend as much money on a 46 year old vehicle as I would if I went out and bought a new suv and they still can't understand. I want the old look that still has some modern flare, modern reliable, and fun driveline and hopefully looks that kill. Ultimately I tell them to build or buy what they want and I will do what I want. Most of my car friends are beginning to understand now why we want the cars to handle better and the aftermarket has stepped up in a big way the last decade or so. It wasn't like that 20 plus years ago. My street rod buddies are more understanding of what my vision is than are the muscle car guys until I show them a video of Brian Finch or someone ripping up an autocross or road course and then they say "oh, I get it now". But they don't. Ultimately until they get their own car they want understand how bad original is and why you should upgrade.

When I finish mine in a few years I will track it a couple of times for certain, but it will still be a cruise at heart and occasional cross country ride.

Just my .02 worth. Enjoy it if you've got it, the drive the wheels of it.

Chris

[Iamtheonlyreal1]

I have actually said that. Shuts them up pretty quick.



This could just as easily apply to a multitude of other cars, like Vegas, Monzas, Gremlins, Pintos, etc, etc.

Ken

Ken that is true, but Vega, Monza, Gremlin, and Pinto guys dont have delusions of grandure about those cars.. Some of the classic Volvo guys actually believe that the car could not be improved upon even today, and that any upgrades are an actual engineering negative..? It really isnt the keeping original for historical reason, but it is literally because these Sewing Machine powered cars cannot be improved upon, even with today's technology.. I have never run into that with any other car, and have only had the nostalgic keep it original discussions before.. There are guys that literally think that their OEM 90 horsepower car, will be able to keep up with my Volvo X build on a road course, and I personally think that is dilusional.

[kochevy67]

I especially like when they try to talk cars with you and you quickly realize they have no clue, that is usually revealed when they say they had a 450 or a 350 big block. That is when I say that must of been rare and walk away snickering.

[SShep71]

People have gotten on me several times now about the GTO saying about how I am runing it because its an original GTO... and all that nonsense. Most try but wind up failing when I start to talk about my intent and expectations. Then there are the few that INSIST on making it a big deal. To which they get with a smile on my face....."Have you ever had a concussion?.... do you want one?" they always walk away. A mans car is a huge part of his life, alot of detail and care goes into a car. If you cant respect that you shouldnt say anything. Having questions is one thing, but being just totally disrespectful about it is different.

[PT Sportwagon]

I can see both sides of the coin. If a car was a rare option or production the (maybe) restore but if it is a common million produced car or too far gone. then yea mod the sucker. Some say clone it, then when you sell it as a clone the next guy flips it as an actual. and the whole car world gets a bad name. I say the hell with what other say or think do what you want. its yours, period.

Tim

[go-fish]

He who holds the title decides how the vehicle is used, IMO. Others should but out unless their opinion is requested. This is why I would rather belong to a forum like this than a car club.

[MidnightSpecial]

I especially like when they try to talk cars with you and you quickly realize they have no clue, that is usually revealed when they say they had a 450 or a 350 big block. That is when I say that must of been rare and walk away snickering.

My favorite is when someone walks up to my car and just calls out a random year to seem "in the know". Doesnt say a car model or option....just a number

"Thats a 71' right?"

I could forgive someone asking if its a 69....but a 71? Theres no way a car guy would mistake a late 60's model for a 70's model.

[J-440]

Don't let the whack jobs tell you what you should not or should do to your car...especially when they themselves don't have a car to begin with. It's not like your'e driving a 71 Cuda convertible. Make it yours and enjoy it!!

[moreHP]

I can see both sides of the coin. If a car was a rare option or production the (maybe) restore but if it is a common million produced car or too far gone. then yea mod the sucker. Some say clone it, then when you sell it as a clone the next guy flips it as an actual. and the whole car world gets a bad name. I say the hell with what other say or think do what you want. its yours, period.

Tim


This sums up my thinking too.

[RMMiller]

The purist are the sole reason I wish I could afford a 100 point restored 55-6 or 7 T-bird. I would document the butchering process where I would bring it to modern day standards with an LS which I would proudly display in the middle of their cars. I pick on them because they seem to be the absolute center of the no nut or bolt altered community.

[shizzy]

He who holds the title decides how the vehicle is used, IMO. Others should but out unless their opinion is requested. This is why I would rather belong to a forum like this than a car club.
Yep. I usually make a comment about not telling him what to do with his Wife at night. Usually shuts them right up.
I Traded a case of beer for a hacked up Truck body, so WHat I do is my damn business.

[jlcustomz]

I get about as much hate comments as anybody, but mostly from the internet, not from people seeing in person. New Camaro people seem to hate that I didn't get the whole car (or have to pay for it). Then classic car purists seem to think they should look all the same. Then others seem jealous at local shows cause mine gets more attention than theirs. Can't make everyone happy.Only paying customers get what they want.

[ho428]

I've got a similar quandry on my 68 Firebird convertible. It's a base model OHC-6, 3 speed on the floor. Not a real high value car but unique no doubt since you rarely ever see a complete original OHC. Restored it would still be unique and rare but not worth as much as the restoration would cost. Put in a 400, 4 speed and 400 hood and it would be, but it would no longer be unique.
The OHC guys say leave it, the Firebird guys say V8 it, the PT guys say modernize it.

Personally I'd like to hot rod the OHC since I have all the Sprint parts, maybe even put a FAST EFI on the 4 barrel intake, add vintage air and PT the suspension and brakes. Probably be a very well balanced car.

[sccacuda]

I personally really enjoy hearing how every other person that talks to me says "I used to have one just like it" and how they are glad that I kept the stock "shaker scoop." LOL

Andrew

'Cuda production, compared to Camaro and Mustang, is pretty low. Based on everyone that sees mine and had one "just like it", all of the cars made must have been sold in Jacksonville.

[astroracer]

You guys have it easy... The most received response I get when telling muggles I am building an Astro Van is .... Why?
Maybe in 100 years there will be some Astro van "purists" around to to give me grief. :)

[srh3trinity]

I have been thinking about whether I would ever keep a car stock. I did come to the conclusion that if one day I had a stable of cars and found a cool survivor car, that I might leave something like that alone. Those cars, especially if they have a cool back story are much more interesting than a grease pencil, chalk mark restoration. The concours restoration cars have no soul, survivors do and modified cars do as the current caretaker has put their own spin on it. Have you guys seen "Chasing Classic Cars" on Velocity, that show has given me the new appreciation for survivors.

[Steve Chryssos]

I like to park my car next to a restored piece, walk up to the resto-nut and say.... "Nice car. Let's take it apart...." :rotfl:

[sccacuda]

I like to park my car next to a restored piece, walk up to the resto-nut and say.... "Nice car. Let's take it apart...." :rotfl:

Shouldn't that signature say Jacksonville now?!

[Todd in Vancouver]

I'm definitely into the modding of cars as I really don't give a crap what colour stripe is suppose to be on the third coil of the front spring of the passengers side. Now, having said that I did buy a hacked up Camaro to have fun with but it turned out to be a rare optioned car that was out of only 200 ever built so I sold it to someone interested in restoring the car. There is a place for stock cars and saving them for future generations to see what real muscle cars use to be like. Power to those who do it and I can appreciate the work they put into them but its just not my thing .

[Zspoiler]

I just tell its my car, and I can do what the heck I want with it. And where the heck is theirs,because most of time it is a beater. The things i do to my car actually improve it. In fact it handles just a well ,if not better then a new car. We also take better care of ours . Because we put a lot time and effort into them.

[68EFIvert]

Ken that is true, but Vega, Monza, Gremlin, and Pinto guys dont have delusions of grandure about those cars.. Some of the classic Volvo guys actually believe that the car could not be improved upon even today, and that any upgrades are an actual engineering negative..? It really isnt the keeping original for historical reason, but it is literally because these Sewing Machine powered cars cannot be improved upon, even with today's technology.. I have never run into that with any other car, and have only had the nostalgic keep it original discussions before.. There are guys that literally think that their OEM 90 horsepower car, will be able to keep up with my Volvo X build on a road course, and I personally think that is dilusional.

I think I know who you are talking about. LOL!

[BADNBLK]

You guys and your collectible cars LOL! Just gotta fix up old trailer park icons, and then have people ask you about your mullet, or about Knight Rider. Those conversations typically get fun very quick haha!

All kidding aside. Like so many others have said its yours do what you want with them. I can see both sides of the coin, but don't care enough about other people projects to tell them what they should be doing with it.

[Jok3r]

build em how you want for sure. im pretty young, compared to a lot of the muscle car guys i know, and i gotta say id like all cars to be unique and modified. fender flares are one of my favorite mods.
i get crap from some of the body shops about my 73 camaro's fiberglass front clip, full pin on carbon fiber hood, carbon fiber trunk, and a crazy paint job to list a few things. but i guarrantee my car gets more attention than a stock camaro.
though i would like a stock 2000 **** harrel camaro, if that even counts.

[BuickGS]

Some entertaining comments here!
Since everyone here is into modifications for performance, maybe we all ought to start giving the stock resto guys grief about how bad those old cars really drive. Well, that would not be in keeping with the "do unto others" principle, but it would be fun give 'em a dose of their own medicine.
Seriously though, the Pantera crowd has it pretty good. They acknowledge those cars had shortcomings, and certainly don't mind mods of almost any sort. Bone stockers and modified cars both have appeal and good resale.

[TonyL]

Regardless of the cars rarity, it's YOUR car. More importantly it's YOUR dream and vision. When you are driving as stock vintage car, you're still driving some designers dream. He drew it, He sculpted it out of clay and said to himself, "This is what this car is supposed to be." (and then he watched in horror as the bean counters changed it, but I digress) But that's it. I don't want to drive around in some other guy's expression of what a cool car should look like. No matter how cool that is Because I am not him, I'm me and you're you. Expression is what we do as hotrodders. Some people don't get that. They're okay in their cookie cutter life, with their boring house and their boring stuff. More power too them. We'll just keep on being awesome. And no matter what those haters say, they all wish they had the balls to be who we are. And to live *our* way.

[zipsimons]

Everyone is right! Dare I say, even the purists... I found some PT people telling me I was building my car wrong because of styling or component choices. It was fast as hell, handled incredible, and looked like the car I had dreamed up a few years ago. PERFECT (for me) A car is something different for everyone. Why so many people think everyone should like a car the way they do is beyond me. But hey, it's their right to think whatever the heck they want... It's your right to not pay any mind to it. I just opened a new shop with my best friend since high school (Donald Endonino... I stole him from prodigy! lol) We consider ourselves outstanding craftsmen. By no means do we think we are better than everyone though. We are just trying to earn a spot amongst the respected. Cars are freakin awesome and it should just be smiles and fun! People shouldn't be getting their feelings hurt over the way they like something. The point is.. do it the way you want and be damn proud of it. Someone will definitely disagree, count on it... so what, Lighten up friends, burn some rubber:)

[shortrack]

Cars built in the 60s and 70s suck. GM's Suggest-A-Steer, Kinda Brakes, and DoorHandle Deluxe handling aren't any fun to drive. Add in the Lap Belt Non-Restraints, Driveway Oiling System, and No Traction Tires, and those guys can keep their safety-challenged, poor-handling, and low horsepower vehicles. :)

Yeah no kidding, keep your manual steering and brakes, four wheel drum, bias ply tires etc etc....

Those guys on Barrett Jackson get on my nerves....Their obsession with "stock" can drive me crazy....they will "let a guy away" with upgrading 4 wheel manual drum brakes.

[Barrrf]

I now have to deal with this after I put seats in that actually have support.

"Those are rice seats"

OKay thanks. Bye now.

[Damn True]

I have a 2nd cousin who does resto and hot-rod builds here in CA. A lot more of the former of late, though he does have two Oakland plaque's on his wall from when he was mainly a rodbuilder. He hates my plan for my Camaro, tells me I'm ruining it and has refused to have any part in the build because he doesn't want his shops name associated with that kind of build......

Ok.

[Zachalanche]

Bottom Line, people watch too much TV. They would care less about your project if they had one of thier own. Whenever I get assaulted with someones opinoin, all I can think is: Great! go buy your own and build it that way, then when it turns out looking like crap send it to chip foose so he can put a 2-tone paint job on it. But, I keep my mouth shut because I've offerd my opinoins in the past too.

[rustomatic]

You, sir, are a master of euphemism! I have greatly benefited from stock 1960s lap belts on more than one occasion, however...


Cars built in the 60s and 70s suck. GM's Suggest-A-Steer, Kinda Brakes, and DoorHandle Deluxe handling aren't any fun to drive. Add in the Lap Belt Non-Restraints, Driveway Oiling System, and No Traction Tires, and those guys can keep their safety-challenged, poor-handling, and low horsepower vehicles. :)

[Schwartz Performance]

BEST THREAD EVER.

We have done several cars that we've received hate-mail on- the two main ones being the 1971 Olds Cutlass SX, and the 1970 Dodge Dart Swinger (Ok the Dart hate mail was deserved.. after all, the customer brought us a Mopar Nationals-winning nicely-restored Dart LOL).

Around where we're at in northern IL, not many people know about the pro-touring thing. I cannot express how bored I get going to cruise nights and car shows, because pro-touring cars have taken all of the joy away from the "other" cars. (This is not a bad thing).

1969 Camaro. 350/350. Ladder bars. Front disc brake kit- 11" single-pistons. Holley 4 barrel. Reupholstered houndstooth seats. Hurst shifter. Torq thrust II's. Now that's what people around here consider AWESOME.

Everyone on this board likely has the same opinion. We modify cars to have more fun with them & to not be PISSED when you get out of your stock 1965 Chevelle and hop into a newer car............

Classic example, I hear it all the time:
A guy buys his wife a new V6 Mustang. Drives it around with her.. gets on it a bit...
Next day.. gets into his 68 Camaro.. gets on it a little bit on the way to the cruise night.. backfire. Goes around a corner at 20mph and almost loses it. Squirrel runs out in front, slams on brakes.. dead squirrel.
Searches internet for solutions. Calls Schwartz Performance.

Many people are not aware of the benefits of making a classic car a pro-touring machine, nor the pro-touring theme itself.

Awareness! Can we have a Pro-Touring Awareness week? Month? And cool rubber wrist-bands?

-Dale

[MidnightSpecial]

Awareness! Can we have a Pro-Touring Awareness week? Month? And cool rubber wrist-bands?

"Modify, so thou shalt not die"

The slogan on the wrist band

[Thephranc]

Just had a guy in the shop ask me why I wasted all this time and money on an AMC Spirit when I could have made a mustang. I asked if he'd like to race his all stock fastback. He declined.

[jerrys85iroc]

Can we have a Pro-Touring Awareness week? Month? And cool rubber wrist-bands?

-Dale

Can we make this a thing? I think its too good of an idea not to.

[Rod]

with that kind of build......

:jawdrop: ha ha ha , that kind of build! that's funny.. right there

[Nicks67GTO]

Heres a reality check: In 50 years no one will care, most of us will probably be dead and the next generation dont care a lick about them, so who really cares?? I say do what you want with what you have. It's your car no matter how "rare" it is. For me, unless its a super rare, highly desireable, Hemi car, Boss429, RAIV GTO or SD bird etc then mod away. The only cars worth more in completely nut and bolt stock form are these supercars" anyhow. Also rare dosent mean expensive. A ZL1 69 Camaro is rare because it was big time stuff and super expensive in the day and that makes it really desireable. A 2 barrel 67' GTO is rare because no one wanted one and isnt worth all that much in stock form. Theres a big difference. Im sure these armchair purists don't realize how expensive it is to do a complete correct nut and bolt restoration to "stock". Some of the old NOS parts are stupid expensive and it would cost more to do a correct nos restoration than it would to mod the car and have more fun. Not to mention the first thing these guys did, when they got them from the factory, was to stick a set of headers in it and a hurst shifter and some slot wheels. My guess is that most of these cars stayed bone stock for about a week out of the factory.

I have a real California black plate 67' GTO HO car. AT AC PS PB PA factory tint. Ive got all the stock numbers matching stuff and its all out of the car in boxes. The car is 1 of 598 based on the original California residence, HO engine and auto tranny. Ive heard it before...."oh you should restore it to stock or sell it to someone who wants to" Iv'e had the car since I was 13, its not going anywhere and ill do as I please with it. I'm not cutting mine up because I really like the original look of the interiors and bodies on them, however it might get an LS. *GASP* It already has a 455, a 5 speed, 4 wheel discs and some chassis mods on my way to SC&C stage II. Fuel injection and 17's or 18's are in the near future. My guess is that by the time i'm done, it would sell for equal or more in PT form, than with all the factory equipment and be a heck of a lot more fun to drive.

[andrewb70]

This thread is almost as funny as the "cookie cutter Camaro" thread...LOL

Andrew

[critter]

Well if you really want to piss off purists take a one of less than 800 built, 1974 Super Duty Trans Am and modify it like I have. I went to Trans Am Nationals the first year it was finished. Original drive train was blown up by the original owner. So I built a Pontiac 455 and dropped it in, good date code, just not a SD engine. I did go ahead and put the SD call out decal on the shaker since the VIN was an X code car. I was in a light modified class because of my aftermarket stereo and other minor things. The SD purists on the front row of the show field got wind of me and made a special trip to come pick my car apart. And that was the last time I went to that show. I've considered going back now that it has all the modifications I've done over the past 10 years. I'd love to see how many would drop dead on the spot when they saw the 18 inch wheels and paddle shifters. :) :) :)

[rockytopper]

Only purist I see are in my rear view mirror and they aren't there long enough for me to hear much out of them so sorry guys I can't really relate to what you guys are saying. :dunno:

[shizzy]

well, here is what I started with. Grease marker and date code plug wire crowd can say what they want...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/photobucket8891342405947317-1.jpg

[Jim Nilsen]

The purist are the sole reason I wish I could afford a 100 point restored 55-6 or 7 T-bird. I would document the butchering process where I would bring it to modern day standards with an LS which I would proudly display in the middle of their cars. I pick on them because they seem to be the absolute center of the no nut or bolt altered community.

I actually know that there is a car just like you describe. I saw it at the Chicagoland Goodguys event in 2012. The guy was was very proud of doing what he wanted to do with his car and it was a beautiful thing.

[Jim Nilsen]

I like to park my car next to a restored piece, walk up to the resto-nut and say.... "Nice car. Let's take it apart...." :rotfl:

......and when they envision us taking their car apart they see a sawzall in our hand and a welder , not just the regular hand tools for the meek restorer.

[shortrack]

I call them the "original air in the tires crowd"

I see their point to an extent though, my car has probably the most mods of any car on here and I wouldnt have done it to even a real SS. It was originally a Malibu 307 PG car.

[shortrack]

Only purist I see are in my rear view mirror and they aren't there long enough for me to hear much out of them so sorry guys I can't really relate to what you guys are saying. :dunno:

hahaha thats funny right there

[Steve@CJPP]

Ok so yeah this is my first post but this topic I know all too well. I have a 2001 Mustang Bullitt, is it rare no, unique..... MAAAAYBE but that is all in who you talk to. Well I was on another site a few days ago and there was a debate about a car that wasn't a Bullitt. Well in this debate it was said that anyone that paints their Bullitts any other color than what they were made should have their @ss kicked. Why is it that serious? I plan on painting mine, I have removed some items, and in the end it's going to be the way I wanted it because really in the end they are just extensions of ourselves and why would we all want to look or be the same?

[JimmyJames]

In the early 70s my father bought 2 totaled 63 Jag XKEs, and built a beautiful 327 Chevy powered ride with a 9" ford running the factory Jag knock off spokes. With sidepipes! Still the most beautiful car Ive ever known, and I wish he still had it just to give the purist heart palpitations every time it drove by.

[Whistler]

An easy way to shut them up is to sell it to them. Offer a deal where they pay you half up front, then the other half after you put it back to stock for them and they can drive it home in all it's original glory.

Tell them you saved all the original parts , and even saved the original air from the tires in a zip lock bag. :)

[Removed user as requested]

I understand purists if the car you have is a Unique car like a Ford SCJ 428ci matching numbers car. I would say you are MAD if you were to tamper with that. If you want to do up a hot car though that leaves old 'classic originals' in the dust, and yet you have a SCJ or something rather, sell it, get a lot of money for it, then buy a plain fastback 69 and modify that to whatever you want, it wasnt a special matching numbers car anyway.

So I can understand both.

I Personally dont care to spend $$$ on something that will handle worse, accelerate worse for sake of originality, when I pay money, i expect performance upgrades, this means non original. Due to that, I never look for matching number cars either as I wouldn't want to wreck there originality.

[djfxall]

I have figured out they dont want to mod there suspension cause the only driving they do is into the trailor and to the ice cream shop twice a year. Allot of those real purist cars are investments only that they can see instead of just being a number on a sheet of paper. I habe redpect to the purist even though its not my cup of tea.

[tylers88]

I don't have to deal with "pureists" but tell a redneck you are going to lower a 4x4 truck. Sorry I want to be able to hook up on the street without a 4 link. Typically just tell them if they want to give me $4500 a lift, wheels/tires, gears and a locker I will gladly lift the truck, gets them quiet pretty fast.

[JAWSS]

Good thread right here... I agree with all sentiments expressed. I have a few original friends and I have plenty of modifier friends. Simply said, it is your car, do what you want with it, except run into my car due to your manual steering, drum brakes, and sloppy suspension.

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

somehow purists remind me of environmentalists and protesters

[shortrack]

somehow purists remind me of environmentalists and protesters

hahaha yeah!

[Scott Parkhurst]

somehow purists remind me of environmentalists and protesters

They always reminded me of crazy church people...telling others they had to live by the rules in the book, and there could be no deviation from the book or else they'd go to hell.

I always saw hot rodders as crazy non-religious types rebelling against the rules. Proud to be there too!

[72BBSwinger]

I understand the comments. I had a few negative comments on my T56 install which requires some pretty serious hacking. Then I here about "really like the car but, im not a big wheel guy.." and then I show them the 14" rotors and Viper calipers to show the REASON for the big wheels and they shut right up. My car is in my garage to get pounded on. I hate car shows after about 15 minutes of seeing what is there. Also starting to notice how people are almost offended these days by a car you can hear and feel when its present. People in the newer generations are kinda a bunch of sissy's. Still love to set of car alarms every chance I get.

[TheJDMan]

These car purists are the main reason I do not attend car shows or cruse-in's with Dust Off. I have neither the time nor patients to listen to their opinions. I have owned my Camaro for 40 years and no one is going to tell me what I can or cannot do to it. I drove it on the street back in the early 70's and hated the way it handled and braked. Now after a complete suspension brake and wheel upgrade the car handles like a Corvette and I could not be happier with the results.

[mikedc]

Guy at a gas station: "You really ruined that thing."

Me: "I started with a base-model car. It was totally worn out in every way. The whole body was breaking in half from rust. What exactly did I ruin? The VIN number?"

[R32Jordie]

I never have this problem because my car is "supposed to be modified." People just assume every skyline has 500-1000hp just because that is what fast and the furious taught them :smashcomp

[MidnightSpecial]

I never have this problem because my car is "supposed to be modified." People just assume every skyline has 500-1000hp just because that is what fast and the furious taught them :smashcomp
That has to be equally frustrating

"What kind of power do you have?"
"About 970hp. Got a.."
(Cuts you off mid sentence)
"Man I got a buddy who has a cousin that knew a guy that hung out with this dude that had one with like 1500hp running 'NOS' man. So sick"

[Zspoiler]

Just tell them that you are just improving the breed.

[tazzz25906112]

I think the factory/ies did a beautiful job of styling the cars of the era and it's evident in all of our interest in them.... The numbers guys can generally find an argument in the mirror if left alone for more 3-4 seconds so their opinions mean nothing to me...

I laugh the Pontiac community got all up in arms when I was considering taking a 69TA shell I found a few years and making it into a Tran Am Series style track day car.... I heard how I should (and could only) take that build and build it out with date code parts etc.... Hell I told them they only wanted a sucker to do that so they could tell the idiot that the car wasn't numbers matching and would be half what the fool would put into it in the end... Things got heated form there to say the least and it was all sorted rather quickly when I finally had enough and told them all to piss up a tree and offer the following statement to them... All you numbers Hero's here is your chance (I stated at the time),,,, I will tell where the car is just as soon as a numbers buyer steps up and shows me a receipt from a children's charity for a donation of $5,000... You know all the keyboard warriors swallowed their collective tongues (fingers in the case of the keyboard proper) and the opinions stopped immediately...

Numbers cars, they can look great,,,, but so does a good photo...

[dunnjun]

I think the factory/ies did a beautiful job of styling the cars of the era and it's evident in all of our interest in them.... The numbers guys can generally find an argument in the mirror if left alone for more 3-4 seconds so their opinions mean nothing to me...

I laugh the Pontiac community got all up in arms when I was considering taking a 69TA shell I found a few years and making it into a Tran Am Series style track day car.... I heard how I should (and could only) take that build and build it out with date code parts etc.... Hell I told them they only wanted a sucker to do that so they could tell the idiot that the car wasn't numbers matching and would be half what the fool would put into it in the end... Things got heated form there to say the least and it was all sorted rather quickly when I finally had enough and told them all to piss up a tree and offer the following statement to them... All you numbers Hero's here is your chance (I stated at the time),,,, I will tell where the car is just as soon as a numbers buyer steps up and shows me a receipt from a children's charity for a donation of $5,000... You know all the keyboard warriors swallowed their collective tongues (fingers in the case of the keyboard proper) and the opinions stopped immediately...

Numbers cars, they can look great,,,, but so does a good photo...

i was cutting through rush hour the other day in Blu, and see an old Blue T/A a couple of hundred yards up in front of me in traffic. So I work my way up there, and pull up beside him, and we look at each other, it's a '71 T/A, 455 HO, Lucerne sp blue, and it's numbers, you can tell, and he looks at me, and I give him the thumbs up and move on, because it was an awesome car, 9/10s from 5ft, but damn, there all these parts available to make these cars so much better. I just don't get it, it's like the Delorean vs the time machine. Anyway it turned out that the owner was my son's driving instructor, and had owned the car since it was new. He was also a Hollywood stunt man, Max Maxwell, if I'm not mistaken, who was famous for jumping a car into a helicopter. Gonna haveta research that. But my point is, seen um, drove um, now I like to see what they ( the body lines) can really do!

[tazzz25906112]

Karl right on buddy,,, they look great now lets see what 40 years of technology can do to make them even more fun..... BTW this mans car Blu is off the hook and a great example of walking the talk literally.....

[nekkidhillbilly]

im not a purist by any means. however i do like the engine to match the brand of the car if possible. i cant stand the small block chevy in everything cause it was cheap and easy. a ford should be ford powered or caddi buick olds pontiac etc...and no just because gm made them doesnt mean its all the same. i will exclude the ls motors from this cause they are in my mind corporate engines. (still dont belong in fords). it takes more effort to build a badass olds than it does a sbc with a bunch of cheap summit parts. i rather see a pt car than a prostreet deal also. the pt cars are really well put together macine that you can drive but the prostreeters are pretty much hack jobs just to fit big tires under them and are useless besides a straight line.

[19Mustang65]

Like the post above, I too feel a ford should be powered by a ford and a chevy powered by a chevy. That is a good post. I actually can relate quite a bit to this post and I really appreciate all of the insight as well as all of the hilarious quotes. Some of them, sorry to admit, but I am going to borrow for sure and use as my own.

My biggest thing for me is when I attended an all Ford Mustang show. While I was walking through the hundreds of numbers matching cars with each one being the exact same date correct paint and chrome in about 30 minutes. Boring..... Then there is that one lone wolf out in the parking lot (mind you not invited to the car show because not a concourse car). You have all seen it, it is the one with everyone gathered around taking pictures which is really stealing the show from said purists. I probably spent an hour around that custom car picking the owners brain about the details. The Mustang is a completely modified PT with a ton of extras to include but not limited to, a fiber-glassed trunk with sound system, custom interior inside, and wrapped up in some really deep rich exterior paint with no door handles and modified sheet metal. Now that is interesting.

Another thing that made me laugh when I was there was what all the purists were talking about. They literally huddled around their concourse cars with their factory and date correct coil spring paint and logo glass with the only real thing to talk about is where they found their really nice collapsible lawn chairs with cup holder, pocket, adjustable height extra pillow, and built in umbrellas.

[Slick68]

I just need to add to this since it has resurfaced. My neighbor recently bought a 63 Plymouth Fury convertible. It's mostly original with a 383, push button transmission(727?), single master cylinder, drum brakes and no power steering. He has no intention of making it a P-T car, but wants to keep it a fun, safe and reliable cruiser. He recently had a new top installed and put on some 18" wheels/tires and lowered the front. He also purchased the parts to add power steering, and disc brakes with a proper dual res. master cylinder. Due to health reasons, he's had a hard time getting these parts installed.

I'm not a Mopar nut, but I like all old cars. So, a few weeks ago, I run into a guy that like Mopars. He has several "restored" cars, one being a Fury. I started telling him about my neighbors car. He seemed interested until I told him about his plans to upgrade the steering and brakes. The guy says: "Overkill!!". I stopped the conversation and let him be on his way after that.

How is making a car easier and safer to drive overkill?

[groho]

To each their own...I'm gearhead neutral, and like them all, restored or modded. Was at the upholstery shop yesterday coordinating my rear seats and admiring a '34 Bentley as they scrambled to get it ready for the upcoming shows. I personally admire the work, dedication, and determination, and workmanship by people that turn the wrenches. Many who buy their pre-made car wouldn't know the difference between a screwdriver and a wrench, let alone tell you what a trac-loc or quick ratio borgeson is, or what a girling reservoir is used for. I admire the folks on this forum, and can only wish I could be as talented as many here. I'll do my best, with what I have, and enjoy the hell outa driving it, whether anyone likes it or not. Restored or modded, they both have their place, but no one has the right to bad mouth someone else's ride, of course, if you don't work on them, we'll bad mouth you all we want.

[LS6 Tommy]

Some of the Corvette guys really give Jeff a hard time about what he did. "It's a numbers matching car?!":seizure:


Tommy

[scott_fx]

Deal with this crap on motorcycles too.....my standard line-----

"You aren't supposed to like it....I am"

(It has particular significance when you are covered in black leather, wearing dark glasses/do-rag, and carrying a gun in your pocket)

i love this reply!

i just got through all 5 pages and i realized... i actually dont care if someone hacks up a mint matching numbers car. who am i to say keep it original? at that point, I'm no better then the schmuck telling me that i shouldn't have modded my car. Also who cares if you have an ls1 in your ford or a 9 bolt in your chevy? when i go home at night, is it going to affect my personal life? not one bit. there are few things in this world that really matter (family, safety, freedom, etc..), what doesn't matter is my (or anyone's) opinion on what people do with their cars. (caveat: unless it comes to safety on the streets)

also to the people that say you're ruining the value... i didnt buy a car as an investment, i bought the car because i'm passionate about cars and driving. What's the purpose of not driving a car and just owning it? if that is waht i wanted, i'd just buy a piece of artwork i could can hang on my wall. it's a much better purchase and takes up less garage space. for those that say cars are pieces of art... yeah, pieces of art that were built to be driven

[cluxford]

My camaro has everything modified. I mean everything. My buick daily has a SBC. I'm in Australia and getting parts for a 61 nailhead ain't easy

Relatively lucky out here as not many purists per se

But the odd person that has said why'd I modify it so much I simply throw em the keys and say lets go for a ride and see if you have the balls to stomp on 800hp. They change their tune

[bergers59]

To be honest, I'm a purist in the sense that I believe as much period correct items as possible without ruining the fun or purpose of the car should be on it. No offense to people here, but I cringe when I see boyd coddington or foose style interiors and wheels on a car. Period correct and race parts never go out of style, stuff that is "cutting edge" styling does, within 5 years of it coming onto the market.

[shmoov69]

One of my buddies just picked up a restored 30 A 2 door sedan and had it less than a week and has already cut 5" out of the top!! DOOH!!! I cringed inside, but its way cooler this way!! LoL!

[Poorhousenext]

Maybe I live in a different reality from most.

I've never had a bad experience with purist an I've made a point of going into their world a part of my effort to get their thoughts on my modification of an American icon, a Midyear (1963-67) Corvette.

I took the car to the NCRS most prestigious event, Blooming Gold to see NCRS members reaction to car. Of those that looked the car over, including 5 Master Judges, I had no negitive responces, only praise and members saying they would like to have a Midyear built to be driven, because they could not afford to drive thier Concours restored cars because of the value it would loose by being driven.

I took the car to the National Corvette Museum to it's 19th anniversary celabration to see what the Board of Directorys thought. Found that Head had seen the car at Nashville Goodguys show an it had inspired him to build a Midyear Restomod and again no one put me or my PT Restomod car down. Car was even chosen by one of the NCM Hall of Fame inductees as his choice in Car show. If it had been allowed it would have been the pick of 2 more inductees.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/P9050417_zps09cbdb0e-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/P9050417_zps09cbdb0e.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/642XL_zps3d369f3b-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/642XL_zps3d369f3b.jpg.html)

I've been invited to Local Corvette Shows. Never fill out judging card because I'm there to support charity and give people something to look at other than mostly stock Vettes. On one occasion it seemed that each person who entered show was given a judging card to pick their choices in each generation of Vette. Entrants voted car Best in show C2, Best in Show all generations and Sponcer of Club holding the show gave it Sponcers awards for Best in Show.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/westvetteshow3awardsinhand-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/westvetteshow3awardsinhand.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/westvetteshowbestinshow-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/westvetteshowbestinshow.jpg.html)

Car also while not a Show Car, but a Driver gets respect for it body design/modificaion as well as interior from show car builders. All the people in below photo with green credintial neck bands are car builders at Detroit Autorama with cars in G8 judging, one with Grey shirt standing near hood is Great 8 winner.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/corvettebloger2-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/corvettebloger2.jpg.html)


Maybe it's my attitude as well as the look of what I did to car that is the reason I've had no bad experinces some of you seem to have had. I have no chip on my shoulder waiting on someone to come up to me and take a try at taking me down a notch by trying to knock it off. Maybe it's ones attude that's the problem.

[nekkidhillbilly]

I now have to deal with this after I put seats in that actually have support.

"Those are rice seats"

OKay thanks. Bye now.

you know your riced to the max foo

[nekkidhillbilly]

My camaro has everything modified. I mean everything. My buick daily has a SBC. I'm in Australia and getting parts for a 61 nailhead ain't easy

Relatively lucky out here as not many purists per se

But the odd person that has said why'd I modify it so much I simply throw em the keys and say lets go for a ride and see if you have the balls to stomp on 800hp. They change their tune

61 arent easy to get anywheres. that is my point. pt is about thinking outside the box a quick drop in sbc is mail order run of the mill. it takes alot more thought to build a nailhead than it does to bolt on a part. not trying to offened at all mind you just stating my op.

[SPLATT71MC]

In some ways I'm a purist and in others I'm not. I like to see the special rarer cars restored and preserved for historical value more so than monetary. That being said what someone does with their own car is their business and theirs(and maybe the wife's) alone. I like to drive my cars but hate the handling characteristics of most cars built before the mid 80's so I like to modify them to my liking so I tend to gravitate to common cars rather than rare or special models.

[Nothingface5384]

purists dont bother me, I just hate when they mention their numbers matching car and state the stock factory gross HP ratings..
..you dont have 400-500hp anything...

I want to see a muscle/pony car either stock, street/drip(drag) or Pro-tour

I dont like pointless poser modifications

I despise Donks, lowrider hydros, Rice,Pro-street, Extreme camber cars, 4x4 cars, and mall crawler trucks that never see mud or rock

now a couple of the above mentioned do upgrade from stock but...Pro-Street which sounds cool and looks badass is simply just worthless on the street.
extreme camber cars do handle better but the whole tire being 2+inches narrower then the rim looks like **** and wearing only a small portion of the contact patch is ****ing dumb..yeah 90% of my tire looks new, but need to replace because 1inch width of wear on most outer tread is down to the belt..
the mall cralwers would track through **** better if they were brave enough to venture off pavement..

[Mo's1969]

There are several types of cars out there in my opinion
Collector cars. Where everything is original. Not my thing but understand folks who like these

Custom cars where they represent what the owner sees as perfect. Some call these Restomod Me I just call it mine. I purposely purchased an ex drag car so I had a blank slate to start with. Tone of work but it will be all mine when it gets done.

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

I can appreciate many (not all) types of cars. I appreciate a good fully restored car, and rare ones. I think if you have a nice original, it's a crime to chop up at all, especially if it's a rarer model. If it is something more unique like say an original SS454 Chevelle WITH the original numbers matching drivetrain, I'd rather see it restored. What I ultimately love to see is people taking not as rare cars like an SS350, or maybe even a Malibu cloned to being an SS to make a full on custom/pro-tour/whatever. I have a lot more respect for someone who builds an awesome car from a clapped out heap, than buying some beautiful existing car for $30k, and tossing the original drivetrain. Kind of what I remember what Boyd did, he'd almost brag about how mint of an original car he cut up.

But don't get me wrong, it still can be fun to rub them wrong. One of the next cars my dad and I are going to get on the road is his 67 GTO pro-street. It was back-halfed back in the 70's we're guessing since the body is so mint and dent/ding free, so we didn't have to do the cutting. We haven't run the PHS documentation yet, but I'm hoping it's a Ram Air car, should make things fun. :)

[72BBSwinger]

This is what I like to see besides PT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbQQ6yIis3Q&feature=youtu.be

[Zachalanche]

The way I see it:
1) To each his own. I can appreciate any type of build, restoration, modification, etc. even if It's not something I would choose to do.
2) If you don't own it you can't control what happens to it, so why worry.
3) After the amount of work I have put into my car I consider it designed and manufactured by me. Ford, GM, Summit, etc, they were all just suppliers. By that definition, its not a ford with a chevy engine, its my car with the engine I designed it to have. If thats a problem, there's plenty more on the car to be upset about.

[Zspoiler]

I have heard that crap before as well. My answer to them is that it is my car and can do what the hell I want with it.Since I am paying the bills on it Other wise just kiss off. And if they really tick me off I would have them show me their car.If they actually have one.That usually shuts them up.And I helped build cars both ways .So I know how to pick them apart. Like is there original air in the tire.and other wonderful things.

[GrayRaceCat]

No argument here, but ya gotta admit, they sure looked purdy doin' it!

[MadGoat]

To be honest, I'm a purist in the sense that I believe as much period correct items as possible without ruining the fun or purpose of the car should be on it. No offense to people here, but I cringe when I see boyd coddington or foose style interiors and wheels on a car. Period correct and race parts never go out of style, stuff that is "cutting edge" styling does, within 5 years of it coming onto the market.

100%!


==========================

I always prefer to see as much of a vintage car looking how it was built new with subtle modern upgrades. And obviously prefer a Ford engine in a Ford, and definitely a PONTIAC engine in a Pontiac etc. Was tired of small block chebby's in everything decades ago and now LS's in everything is so boring and uncalled for. If you want an LS in your other brand car, buy a chevy and call it a day. What is the point otherwise. Losing what made that car brand what it was and is.

And anything done too wild does indeed become dated overnite. Was at a car show recently where the whole town's cars were stuck in 2005 with chinese Foose wheels, billet steering wheels and 2 tone paint. So lame. While the few original looking ones there were getting all the love (from me and others).

[andrewb70]

I built my GTO about 20 years ago. I see cars being built today with exactly the same look.

Andrew

[79 Camaro]

I like all classic cars. But after driving any late model car the "old" car expirence gets a bit old after awhile. I like power brakes. Big brakes. Power steering.
The hot rods I've built have been upgraded with bigger brakes and if it's a Chev LS swaps. Oh sorry my 98 Wrangler has a LS6.
I think the folks that get hurt a bit if they sell their car is if they do become too trendy like back in the 80-90's with painted one color the whole car including bumpers and trim.
I agree on the Boyd/Foose wheels. Not one I liked.
Having said that build what you want without expectation of making money on the build.

[ProTouring442]

I made a meme for these sort of people...

200484

[andrewb70]

I made a meme for these sort of people...

200484

Perfect

[MadGoat]

That is funny. But to many not so much the way "they" want, but the way the factory and brand intended it to be....

Otherwise you just end up all being the same and newer generations won't know the difference from a vintage Chevy or a Buick or a Pontiac if they all just have LS engines in them and TMI interiors. doh.

;-)

[andrewb70]

That is funny. But to many not so much the way "they" want, but the way the factory and brand intended it to be....

Otherwise you just end up all being the same and newer generations won't know the difference from a vintage Chevy or a Buick or a Pontiac if they all just have LS engines in them and TMI interiors. doh.

;-)

I didn't realize I had some sort of obligation to historical presentation. There are organizations that already do that, they are called museums.

Andrew

[MadGoat]

Kids see cars on the road and at shows (or instagram) over a museum.

That is who will carry the torch in the future. Cars don't get driven in a museum unfortunately. And museums are few and far between.

Why own a Ford if you want an LS in it, or a Pontiac or Olds? Makes no sense. No longer has its heart which made it what it was. Just my thought on this.

[Blackhawk]

Why own a Ford if you want an LS in it, or a Pontiac or Olds? Makes no sense. No longer has its heart which made it what it was. Just my thought on this.
Isn't that how hot rodding started? What gets people more excited for the hobby, a bone stock 1932 Ford with a 65hp flathead or a Deuce Coupe?

[BonzoHansen]

Isn't that how hot rodding started? What gets people more excited for the hobby, a bone stock 1932 Ford with a 65hp flathead or a Deuce Coupe?I appreciate both. I see far less of the stock ones.

I don't need some schmo telling me what I did wrong on my own car. But I have appreciation for the true restoration (and unmolested originals). That's harder than most people think. I don't mean the stock looking car at cruise nights with a Ford fan sticker on their 69 camaro. I mean the ones getting judged for correctness. So many little details, paint sheen, mid year changes, etc., and hunting down correct parts can take years. I'd never do it, I don't have the patience. And those guys aren't criticizing us either. Back to cruise night Larry who doesn't have a car...

[andrewb70]

Kids see cars on the road and at shows (or instagram) over a museum.

That is who will carry the torch in the future. Cars don't get driven in a museum unfortunately. And museums are few and far between.

Why own a Ford if you want an LS in it, or a Pontiac or Olds? Makes no sense. No longer has its heart which made it what it was. Just my thought on this.

Yup...I am guilty of ripping the "soul" out of cars and building them how I want to build them. Thank goodness there are people like you that want to have cars with "souls."

Andrew

[79 Camaro]

You wouldn't believe the number of car show folks take a look at my LS6 swapped 98 Wrangler and ask why I didn't put a late model hemi engine in it.

[BonzoHansen]

You wouldn't believe the number of car show folks take a look at my LS6 swapped 98 Wrangler and ask why I didn't put a late model hemi engine in it.Because lifter tick lol

[CarlC]

Yup...I am guilty of ripping the "soul" out of cars and building them how I want to build them. Thank goodness there are people like you that want to have cars with "souls."

Andrew

Holy thread resurrection Batman!

There was a truly outstanding 944 pro-touring build at Supercar Sunday last week. Simply stunning. If the hood was left down, would that degrade the soul of the car as much (ignorant bliss) as it would if the hood was up and revealed a wicked Harrop ITB on top of a well disguised and executed LS3 based engine? In many ways pro-touring should be the best utilization of available resources.

For sure there is a place for everyone in this hobby to do whatever they want to their car. For me, I can't talk again and again if the "PTB" paint stamping on the firewall is the proper shade of blue. There's nowhere to go/improvise/improve which is my motivation. Something has to drive us to do this silly hobby because there are far smarter ways to spend our time and money.

The same goes for many of the local weekly cruise in's. I go to maybe 3-4 of the Saturday night gigs per year, and almost every time I find myself car-disappointed. The same cars that have not changed in literally decades. These are social events. I find much more satisfaction going to track days / autocross / etc. where folks are constantly changing and refining, and then figuring out if/how to integrate similar upgrades into the project list.

[MadGoat]

Heart is not soul. An LS or new motor simply has no soul like a vintage engine. But this LS motor here is tastefully done and pays homage to the original PONTIAC look. Not many do it like this these days. More should. Way cool - if you don't mind giving up some Pontiac torque ;-)

200510

[andrewb70]

Heart is not soul. An LS or new motor simply has no soul like a vintage engine. But this LS motor here is tastefully done and pays homage to the original PONTIAC look. Not many do it like this these days. More should. Way cool - if you don't mind giving up some Pontiac torque ;-)

200510


That is nicely done. Truth be told, 8/10 people would assume it is a Pontiac engine.

Andrew

[FORDvsCHEVY]

Some guy just posted his new chevelle on Chevelle.com asking what the biggest and widest wheel he could put on it.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

The guys on that site are more of a gruff crowd who like things stock. Great comments.

[chuckd71]

Inanimate mass-produced objects only have whatever soul you choose to ascribe them, and not everyone wears the same shade of rose-colored glasses. It's ok to like different things, and hypothetical kids hypothetically carrying a torch aren't who I'm building my own car for; I'll build what I want and they can build what they want. That blue motor is cool though, I have that same setup waiting to go into my Chevelle.

[Mkelcy]

Agreed, Zombie thread.

For my part, I respect the work that goes into a period correct restoration, just as I respect the work that goes into playing the bagpipes well.
That said, I have no interest in doing either. I saw all of the muscle cars as they were released by the factories and before anyone knew they would ever be worthy of restoration and well remember the amount of attention and care it took to keep those "factory" cars functioning well.

My interest is in modified cars: how well are the modifications done, how much care did the person who did the work do to make it look seamless (not factory, but as if it was that way all along), how well thought out is it, how well does it work to achieve the intended function, does it make sense? I've probably had hundreds of non-car show people stop and take a look at my LS3-T56 '68 Camaro because I've used it for a cross country trip. Never once did I get a negative comment and to a person folks loved that my 500+hp old car could accelerate really hard, brake and handle all while being comfortable enough and fuel efficient enough for a cross-country trip.

[Chrisbequick]

Heart is not soul. An LS or new motor simply has no soul like a vintage engine. But this LS motor here is tastefully done and pays homage to the original PONTIAC look. Not many do it like this these days. More should. Way cool - if you don't mind giving up some Pontiac torque ;-)

200510

But... but... but... that isn't what he factory intended! That's what you were arguing earlier. Make up your mind.

[GrayRaceCat]

I made a meme for these sort of people...

200484

I often find myself wishing this forum had a "Like" button of some kind. This is REALLY one of those times!

[Uzivert]

As they say' "Anyone can restore one, but it takes a real man to cut one up."

I think what a man does with his own car is his own business. I bought my Nova in 1978. It was stone stock and looked brand new. The stock 145 HP 350 and 4-wheel manual drums were not much fun. I am building it to drive, not to collect dust in a museum.

[Alwhite00]

I love cruising my 67 chevelle down the expressway @ 80 with the AC blasting and listening to my mp3's. And getting 23mpg. Try that in a stock BB with 4:11's. Lol. That's what I built it for.


6.0 /4L60 / 9"

[rickpaw]

Heart is not soul. An LS or new motor simply has no soul like a vintage engine. But this LS motor here is tastefully done and pays homage to the original PONTIAC look. Not many do it like this these days. More should. Way cool - if you don't mind giving up some Pontiac torque ;-)

200510

So does it count if the LS2 in my 67 Firebird came from an 2005 GTO? Technically still Pontiac right?

[andrewb70]

So does it count if the LS2 in my 67 Firebird came from an 2005 GTO? Technically still Pontiac right?

Pontiac guys don't see it that way. For them, Pontiac died in 1979 when the Pontiac engines stopped production.

Andrew

[ryeguy2006a]

Heart is not soul. An LS or new motor simply has no soul like a vintage engine. But this LS motor here is tastefully done and pays homage to the original PONTIAC look. Not many do it like this these days. More should. Way cool - if you don't mind giving up some Pontiac torque ;-)

200510

Technically the LS motor is now a classic engine since it made it's debut in 1997 haha. That motor is gorgeous btw!

[Mark69bird]

Heart is not soul. An LS or new motor simply has no soul like a vintage engine. But this LS motor here is tastefully done and pays homage to the original PONTIAC look. Not many do it like this these days. More should. Way cool - if you don't mind giving up some Pontiac torque ;-)

200510

Love the look you went with. Can you tell me what up your using for a throttle body on top of the intake? I’m building a 69 Firebird with Trans Am hood and I want to make the ram air functional. This setup looks like it will do the trick. Thanks

[79 Camaro]

So last Sunday I'm at small town car show. It typically has about 100-120 cars the most of which I've seen before. Then there was this Pantera. He didn't have a sign in the window but I'm going guess an early model since it had the small bumpers. I'm guessing that 99.9 percent of the folks at the show have never seen a Pantera. Owner by local farmer.
Super nice car. All new aftermarket gauges. Upgraded brakes and wheels/tires. Super straight paint. And the icing on the top it had a 5.0 Coyote engine swap. Again it was very nice. I wasn't bright enough to snap some pics.
I'm sure that if the owner brought it to a bigger show near the MPLS area there would be some haters complaining about modding a Pantera.

[Archies Beater]

I always prefer to see as much of a vintage car looking how it was built new with subtle modern upgrades. And obviously prefer a Ford engine in a Ford, and definitely a PONTIAC engine in a Pontiac etc. Was tired of small block chebby's in everything decades ago and now LS's in everything is so boring and uncalled for. If you want an LS in your other brand car, buy a chevy and call it a day. What is the point otherwise. Losing what made that car brand what it was and is.

I’m pretty far from a purist and only joined the forum last week, so maybe my opinion doesn’t count as much. I came here from the Land Cruiser world and there are loads of people over there who share this mentality AND I get it. The original build sheet almost always fetches a higher price tag. Guys are swapping in the 2UZ and 3UR motors from tundras in the name of staying rand loyal. All the power to them- its not as easy as my LS powered ‘40( oh boy do I love that engine on and offroad).Said community also has a section that caters to the anything goes crowd- no mod is off limits from any maker. I find this section more interesting than the purist crowd- though the purists are a wealth of information as well!!

Now I’m onto a new build that brings me here- Shell of a ‘59 F100. I imagine that the CV IFS and Mustang IRS going in fall into the aforementioned ethos of keeping the brand intact. I haven’t decided on powertrain yet, but the L83/6l80 is a strong contender. It’s not that I wouldn’t like having a coyote or ecoboost under the hood, but it’s the dollar per horsepower that gets me. I do alright pay wise, but the wife wants things for the house and new boat. And then there’s the FJ40 that’ll never be finished… So the extra cost of getting the f100 on the street really comes in to play. Who knows, I could still end up with a Blue Oval under the hood, but I hear the siren call…

You see I came to this forum, because I thought it was about what worked, not brand loyalty. I’m not slamming the above comment- I respect his view. At the same time, I think you need respect the guys that are scraping it together and using proven models and staying true to some sort of budget.

[Hotwire]

All ya'll need to do is get a 4 door and they'll leave you alone. You will get stories like my grandma/aunt/mom/neighbor had one just like it or why'd you put your money into that junk parts car.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/08/52060171002_b032d16517-1.jpg

[GrayRaceCat]

I’m pretty far from a purist and only joined the forum last week, so maybe my opinion doesn’t count as much.

Welcome, I think you found the right place!

[GrayRaceCat]

All ya'll need to do is get a 4 door and they'll leave you alone. You will get stories like my grandma/aunt/mom/neighbor had one just like it or why'd you put your money into that junk parts car.

That's why I'm hanging on to my 1964 Volvo 122s 4DR, I just gotta decide how to power it!
Hhmm, Volvo white block? Volvo/Yamaha V8? Toyota JZ or UZ? LS? Tesla?
So many choices, so many people to pi$$ off, decisions, decisions!

[67King]

Pontiac guys don't see it that way. For them, Pontiac died in 1979 when the Pontiac engines stopped production.

Andrew

201940

I'd say 81 with the 301. Of course, the Iron Duke was a Pontiac, so that puts us up into the early/mid 90's.

Anyway, I feel different about different cars. I mean, we all are building these cars because they have a degree of personality. They'll never be able to compete in any objective metric with newer, say, European sport sedans for the same investment. But they are far superior on the subjective front. For me, the engine is part of that personality. I personally feel that throwing an LS engine in a build is just leaving some character on the table. But, like I said, I feel different about different cars.

I draw a pretty hard line between 1967 and 1968, at least for the GM A-Bodies. I'd never put 18" Forgelines on an early car (I have 17" American Torque Thrust on my 67), but I think newer wheels look better than "period correct" wheels on the 68 and later. I feel like all the LS swaps are a bit generic, and that it takes away from the personality of the cars, but the later cars have a "newer" vibe to them, so it doesn't detract as much. If I had unlimited time and unlimited money, I'd build an electric 70 GTO (white w/ the black wing, hoodscoops, and chin spoiler). So I don't know. Of course, when I was in grad school in the late 90's, I had started looking into 70-73 Firebirds, and was wanting to do an LT-1 with a T56 and having it be a daily driver, rather than getting a new car. Getting a job with Ford kind of killed that.

Anyway, the LS thing has gotten to the point of being generic. People even throw them in Porsches. I've seen them in severael 944's, but also a few 911's, and a couple of Caymans. The Coyotes are much "cooler" (again, subjectively here) when they go in. I've seen one in a 944, but they seem to be slightly preferred in the Caymans. The flipside is that they are getting to be so common in Early Broncos that I borderline cringe when I see them.......even though I had held onto a 4.6L 4V to put in mine for several years (never did.....too many projects).

I guess I'd sum it up this way. It is like color selection. It influences the personality of the car. People get too butthurt over other folks having a different opinion about the engine, they ought to just treat it like what color the builder chose.

[andrewb70]

Last time I went to a local car show, I saw only 3 LS swaps and not a single Coyote. I think they seem more common than the reality.

Andrew

[SPLATT71MC]

Last time I went to a local car show, I saw only 3 LS swaps and not a single Coyote. I think they seem more common than the reality.

Andrew

I've noticed most of the Coyote swaps I've seen tend to be higher dollar builds where LS swaps are all the way across the board as far as budget is concerned.

[67King]

The Coyote observation was mostly about Early Bronco's. If you aren't familiar with that market, it is beyond stupid.

[79 Camaro]

We have a 14 Mustang GT and the 5.0 engine is a great engine and I am a dyed in the wool LS guy. Nothing wrong with a stock 7000 rpm redline.
I would love to swap one into some Ford product but it's such a large engine that you have to think full size Ford unless you want to cut the front suspension.
I'm sure I will have some haters when I finish my 80 Camaro RS LS3 swap for next summer.

[ryeguy2006a]

We have a 14 Mustang GT and the 5.0 engine is a great engine and I am a dyed in the wool LS guy. Nothing wrong with a stock 7000 rpm redline.


:drive:

[79 Camaro]

Oh and the only mod we have done to the Mustang is replacing the stock GT mufflers with pre-owned Mustang GT 500 mufflers. The stock GT mufflers are so quiet. The GT 500 mufflers are just right. Got them from a guy putting aftermarket mufflers on his GT 500. $200 bucks. Bolted right up. Good bark as you go thru the gears but zero drone while cruising.
Next on the list is an aftermarket shifter. The stock shifter is so loose. Great winter project.
My 80 Camaro project is 99% done. Looking to get a chassis tune later this month.
My daily summer driver is a 98 Wrangler LS6/4L60E swap. Been great for 15 years. Almost time to put the soft top back on and put the plow back on.

[67King]

We have a 14 Mustang GT and the 5.0 engine is a great engine and I am a dyed in the wool LS guy. Nothing wrong with a stock 7000 rpm redline.
I would love to swap one into some Ford product but it's such a large engine that you have to think full size Ford unless you want to cut the front suspension.

Most of my time at Ford was with the Modulars. The last thing I worked on was very early Coyote stuff. On the size of it, yes, like all DOHC V-8's, it is wide; however, it isn't nearly as big as it is made out to be. And it is much smaller than the older 4.6L 4V's for a couple of reasons. First is that when Mullaly came in in 2006 and we got rid of 30% of the workforce, many were through early retirements. The valvetrain tech spec wouldn't let us use small RFF's and HLA's, we were stuck with gargantuan ones. For manufacturing, the left and right cylinder heads used the same castings, and only differed once machined. We were able to get specific castings, and go with a much smaller RFF/HLA setup, which did give us a lot of relief on the size of the head. Getting the alternator off the top of the front of the block helped a lot, too. Certainly still bit, and won't package as well as a cam-in-block will between narrow strut towers, but then again, the 65-66 Mustangs have to have their strut towers cut out for just about anything, I think even 351's? So that isn't a new or big deal, or unchartered territory. The angle of the exhaust ports helps, since headers go don at a 45 degree angle, rather than more out like they do on most OHV's. But the beauty of the Mod is how short it is. 100mm bore centers, and the water pump is recessed in the block. It is only 1" longer than a modenr Porsche Flat-6, which is why they were making their way into Caymans so early on. Much shorter than an LS. But, the bank offset is irritating, as the left side is back, putting it closer to the master cylinder in a front engine application. But still, the torque curves of those engines is unbelievable. My father-in-law has a friend with a 2008 Cayman with a blown engine I'm looking at..........

[Hotwire]

Most of my time at Ford was with the Modulars. The last thing I worked on was very early Coyote stuff. On the size of it, yes, like all DOHC V-8's, it is wide; however, it isn't nearly as big as it is made out to be. And it is much smaller than the older 4.6L 4V's for a couple of reasons. First is that when Mullaly came in in 2006 and we got rid of 30% of the workforce, many were through early retirements. The valvetrain tech spec wouldn't let us use small RFF's and HLA's, we were stuck with gargantuan ones. For manufacturing, the left and right cylinder heads used the same castings, and only differed once machined. We were able to get specific castings, and go with a much smaller RFF/HLA setup, which did give us a lot of relief on the size of the head. Getting the alternator off the top of the front of the block helped a lot, too. Certainly still bit, and won't package as well as a cam-in-block will between narrow strut towers, but then again, the 65-66 Mustangs have to have their strut towers cut out for just about anything, I think even 351's? So that isn't a new or big deal, or unchartered territory. The angle of the exhaust ports helps, since headers go don at a 45 degree angle, rather than more out like they do on most OHV's. But the beauty of the Mod is how short it is. 100mm bore centers, and the water pump is recessed in the block. It is only 1" longer than a modenr Porsche Flat-6, which is why they were making their way into Caymans so early on. Much shorter than an LS. But, the bank offset is irritating, as the left side is back, putting it closer to the master cylinder in a front engine application. But still, the torque curves of those engines is unbelievable. My father-in-law has a friend with a 2008 Cayman with a blown engine I'm looking at..........

https://youtu.be/ssZNaqUDZXk

[67King]

https://youtu.be/ssZNaqUDZXk

DOHC - Dual OverHead Cam
RFF - Roller Finger Follower
HLA - Hydraulic Lash Adjuster
OHV - OverHead Valve

Sorry, thought I was at a car site.

[Hotwire]

DOHC - Dual OverHead Cam
RFF - Roller Finger Follower
HLA - Hydraulic Lash Adjuster
OHV - OverHead Valve

Sorry, thought I was at a car site.

It was a joke, it is a car site, but not everyone is fluent in ohcaganese.

[GrayRaceCat]

It was a joke, it is a car site, but not everyone is fluent in ohcaganese.

I came here to say the same. I had to look up RFF & HLA.
I've worked on OHC engines my entire career, and I've never done one with "Finger Followers" or whatever 67King calls them!



It does remind me of this!


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/09/lfsetpath5B82F32F82F8380615Dcallurl5Bfil-1.chain%5d

[PSMITH]

It doesn't bother me. To the general public, they start to glaze over when i start getting into the details of my build. The car guys I hang out with are up for just about anything. I do get tired of the "are you gonna put the bird on the hood?" People really get bummed out when I tell them it isn't a TA, it is a Firebird and that I have no intention of turning it into a TA or "putting the bird on it"

I have a 1969 Firebird. It gets called a Camaro all the time. I have been asked if I am going to put the bird on the hood.

[nemasis]

im building a 88 irocz camaro im putting a 5.3 with a turbo . wide wheels an tires all the way around an im gonna need a small fender flare on all four corners . but its my dream car. it will run 9 sec quarter mile times an 185mph top speed an handle like it on rails . an be a third gen camaro