View Full Version : Lowered the bird....a little too much....
I got some fenders (temporarily) on the front of the car, and instantly realized I must of shed a ton of weight off the front of the car. Moved the battery to the trunk, got a lightweight fiberglass hood, aluminum radiator, aluminum, heads, and got rid of AC box. I have hothckis springs on it and I cut a little less than 1 coil, it dropped it about 3 1/2"s!!!! It look REALLY good now, but is really low, not to mention I still have to put the nose and inner fenders on. Plus if I am riding with a passenger it will be even lower! IT rides really good for 19" wheels and 650ilb springs. I was suprised, however the headers are now scraping on the driveway, especially the #7 passenger side header tube, which HOoker decided to make lower than all the other tubes? I will eventually take that header out and cut out that bend and raise it up some and reweld it/recoat it. The headers are up as high as they go, and can't even fit my pinky between the floor board and the top of the header, Check it out
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
don't mind the wires hanging down
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
MuscleRodz
08-22-2005, 08:00 PM
I like the stance but the clearance issue has got to suck.
Mike
well if i had a small block it wouldnt' be a problem, I have 2" primary header tubes so its pretty crammed down there, plus the desing of the second gen doesnt' make for any clearance
MuscleRodz
08-22-2005, 08:31 PM
What about running mid-length headers?
Mike
MrQuick
08-22-2005, 11:03 PM
Don't worry after a couple trips around the neighborhood it won't rub as bad. Does look good tho....didn't you read page 17 of my PT bible... Scraperige 2:18 " do not for any compultion cut springs before driving chariots with full weight at least a new moon". dork.
BTW Its nice to have you back...I guess those timeouts realy work! :hah: you going to need a bumpsteer kit.
B Cichocki
08-23-2005, 04:47 AM
Man, that looks all too familiar. I had Hooker Super Comps on my Mustang, which sits about as low as possible while still being functional (It will hit the subframe on big speed bumps, even when crawling over them.) Anyway, the same tube as yours on the passenger side was about 0.75" off the ground. Without a passenger, it wouldn't rub, but the second there was any weight on that side of the car, sparks were flyin'. And forget about speed bumps. Thank god Jeg's was willing to take back the smashed-up headers for a full refund. :hail: Ended up putting shorties on it, and tucking the pipes up as close as possible. No problems since.
To avoid that problem with my Chevelle, we had custom headers made. Note that no part of the headers are even close to the bottom of the bellhousing. :icon996:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
Aside from that, Yody, the car is looking fantastic. I've been looking forward to seeing it put back together. I'm putting 19" wheels on my Chevelle as well, so I'll be a fellow POSEUR . :rotfl:
-Brian
beyonda68
08-23-2005, 05:20 AM
It looks great the way it stands now. You have the skills to make your own headers, problem solved. The wheels look awsome! Nice pics too.
69boo307
08-23-2005, 05:40 AM
Looks sweet, but you won't even be able to clear so much as a dead squirrel in the road! :)
Travis B
08-23-2005, 06:25 AM
That looks killer The stance is right on as far as I am concerned!
I have truck that I drive everyday that 2.5in" off the ground is isn't so bad once you get use to it!
camcojb
08-23-2005, 06:28 AM
Cody,
Is that the hood you're going to run and is there a reason it wasn't shot with the rest of the car?
Jody
kmcanally
08-23-2005, 07:09 AM
So the only clearance problem is the headers? When I started to read this thread I thought it was leading to wheel/tire clearance problems but in the pics it looks like there is alot of room there. IMO I would not sacrifice the stance/visual appeal/handling of the car just to keep the headers from dragging on the ground. I say you redo the exhaust as necessary now while you are still building the car. It sucks because the exhause is already fabbed and coated...but it is after all just an exhaust system.
My problem is going to be tire issues because I cut my front coils (1 full coil) and dearched the rear springs before finishing my car just because I was tired of looking at the 4x4 project in the garage! So now after I get the car running and driving (and letting the springs settle) I will be replacing the front coils and adding some arch back into the reaf leafs.
Because my long tubes dragged the ground on the previous unlowered "version" of my car I went with shorties on the new build and have about 4" clearance to the ground at the current ride height.
mdprovee
08-23-2005, 07:18 AM
The stance is great looking, but scrapeing sucks.
Mike
steemin
08-23-2005, 07:27 AM
Yody,
Very nice.
IMHO.
The occassional scrape will be well worth the look you have with that stance. Besides I think it looks cool when I see a nice lowered car carefully negotiating speed bumps etc..
I can't wait to see the finished product.
Scott
kmcanally
08-23-2005, 07:33 AM
Cody,
Is that the hood you're going to run and is there a reason it wasn't shot with the rest of the car?
Jody
I don't think he's painted the car yet during this build...
ALLFAITH
08-23-2005, 08:01 AM
IMHO it sits perfect. Never can be low enough for my tastes.
I have heard better things about Doug's for Pontiacs for clearance issues.
Brad
F70t/a
08-23-2005, 08:13 AM
The stance looks killer!!!!! :usa:
beyonda68
08-23-2005, 08:26 AM
Yodi, what external trany cooler are you running?
camcojb
08-23-2005, 08:54 AM
I don't think he's painted the car yet during this build...
That makes sense. The pics look like a new paint job to me, and since it's going together I assumed he had painted it already rather than trying to protect that engine and all the other work when painting it at the end.
You know what happens when you assume. :hammer:
Jody
question, questions, Jody, the car isnt' painted yet, the backhalf of the car has the old paint on it, its just going to recieve some spot work, and then the whole car will be painted, those fenders are epoxy primed right now, and that is the hood I am using, the flat formula hoods give you absolutely no clearance, especially for a BBC with a victor jr. The problem with the headers is that they are as high up as they can go, the upper tubes are about 3/16" away from the floor boards, so if i want to stick with 2" primary headers that is the only way to go, unless i wanted to cut the entire floor out and redo it, but that is something I should of done way back. I drove it around and it scraped pretty good on my driveway but on the street it didn't seem to scrape on anything but high speed dips, or speedbumps will probably be a killer. Also the nose and inner fenders/lower valance are the only things left to put on, the all weigh probably about 80-100 ilbs at the very most and won't make it sit very much lower, but put me and a passenger in and ouch, I think down the road, i will put in some new tubular lowers and some coilovers.
CAMAROBOY69
08-23-2005, 09:08 AM
Your car looks great and welcome to my world. :lmao: My headers are even closer than that to the ground but I dont have any problems unless I go into very angled driveways. Even with potholes and horrible Michigan roads. Good luck with your decision but I would leave the stance just the way it is.
thanks! also it is an earls engine oil cooler with the cardboard over it, i have a thermo adapter so it really shouldnt' be coolign the oil till 180 but its been really foggy/cool around here and i couldnt' get my oil temp past 140 so just in case to see if the thermo wasn't working i put the cardboard on, the other smaller one is my power steering cooler. Adam got any pics where i can see the clearance? Also I should mention that i had headers from my pontiac that were low and scraped ALL the time, so this is nothing new to me, it just sucks! Also the headers are so high up, I had to cut and box in the tranny crossmember so they could tuck up.
kmcanally
08-23-2005, 10:12 AM
You know what happens when you assume. :hammer: Jody
Uhhhh no..what? :pat:
Roger Poirier
08-23-2005, 10:19 AM
The problem with the headers is that they are as high up as they can go, the upper tubes are about 3/16" away from the floor boards, so if i want to stick with 2" primary headers that is the only way to go, unless i wanted to cut the entire floor out and redo it, but that is something I should of done way back.
Yody, check out the history page of my own GTO Judge header problem. I had the same issue. Look at the pictures. Problem solved using the same headers.
Stance looks good! You might as well do right, easier to make changes now then after everything is done.
R.P.
MarkM66
08-23-2005, 10:21 AM
My Hooker Headers hang at least that low on my Nova. But my clearance problems aren't with the tube, they're with the flange. For some dumb reason, Hooker weld the flange on, (on the drivers side only), with the bolt hole facing down.
But I'm clearancing that as I drive, LOL!.
LOL, thats why i put the "ball and socket" type collectors on mine, they only have bolts on the sides. Where are the pictures of your judge headers?
jeffandre
08-23-2005, 11:04 AM
Cody,
Looks great! Definitely modify the exhaust as needed. I was wondering where you were... :slap: :injured:
F70t/a
08-23-2005, 11:15 AM
cody,
How far are the front and rear rocker panel's from the ground? The stance does look really good :hammer:
I really like the stance as well. I would be concerned with how much more the front end will drop when you put the beak on the car. I've heard the 2nd gen beaks are quite heavy. I know the one for my 69 probably weighs around a 100 lbs fully assembled.
well i drove it around and it doesnt' actually scrape too bad, except for that one header tube........until i realized the bumpstops were like 1/2" away from the frame!! I'm going to trim them right now and go see if it is hitting all over, post back later! also it does look like the tie rods are pointing up some....my beak is about 40ilbs, inner fenders are 12ilbs each. So figure about 76 ilbs with headlights and such, don't think thats really enough to affect it much
OLDFLM
08-23-2005, 12:42 PM
The stance looks great Yodi!!!!!! Unless the front tires rub terribly I'd leave it alone! You knew that header would rub... unless you switch to shorty headers you're gonna have to live with it IMO.
Can't wait to see the front clip completely on and painted!!!!!
Are you just going to shoot the front clip for now and repaint the entire car later or get it all done at once?
Keep posting pics!!!! Please!
V/R,
Ty
well i drove it around and it doesnt' actually scrape too bad, except for that one header tube........until i realized the bumpstops were like 1/2" away from the frame!! I'm going to trim them right now and go see if it is hitting all over, post back later! also it does look like the tie rods are pointing up some....my beak is about 40ilbs, inner fenders are 12ilbs each. So figure about 76 ilbs with headlights and such, don't think thats really enough to affect it much
Oh yeah that's not bad at all. Cant wait to see this one put together and painted up!
vanzuuk1
08-23-2005, 01:32 PM
has anyone just made a skid plate with a urethene pad so at least that would scrape first? Not ideal but it would make less noise and protect the car a little.Its good enough for f1 cars.
That car looks great , BTW.
primate
08-23-2005, 02:35 PM
looks sinister. i like it.
Steve1968LS2
08-23-2005, 03:09 PM
Just weld skateboad wheels to your headers.. lol
That stance looks killer.. that is the one thing I love about air-ride stuff.. you can cruise and still have the dead nuts on stance when you park..
Now finish your damn car so we can shoot it for the book!!!
<--- knows all the roads and driveways to avoid with a lowered car...
kmcanally
08-23-2005, 03:23 PM
That stance looks killer.. that is the one thing I love about air-ride stuff.. you can cruise and still have the dead nuts on stance when you park..
Have you considered the Air Ride for the Mustang?....Air-Ride has been busy promoting there suspensions as being more performance/handling oriented then we have been led to believe...
okay, I measured.
lowest point of subframe is 3 3/4" from ground
headers are 2 1/4" away from ground
rockers are 7 1/2" away from ground, this is all rough measurements, man those headers are low! that one tube is already getting flattened! also trimming the bumpers didn't make a difference, the headers really scrape on the dips and driveways not as much on bumps. Definetly not putting on airide, too expensive. I'm going to first get the front clip body worked spot work the back half of the car and get the back half sanded some and ready for primer or sealer, then going to jamb the car (after hours of taping everything) at the same time I will paint the insides of the fenders/underside of hood etc. Then bolt everything up and base/clear the whole car, that is pretty much all thats left to finish the car.
MrAngry
08-23-2005, 06:01 PM
That car is coming great - that sucker really is slammed though... looks EVIL! I love it...
chicane67
08-23-2005, 07:59 PM
I told you to purchase some REAL headers or you would be running into this..... and I remember your gastly outburst when you thought the Stahl header price tag was way too much.
Now with the modifications you have to make, it pretty much evens that amount out now....doesnt it ?? DOH :pat: Maybe you shoulda gone with an alloy block instead ?? :rotfl:
Its lookin good homie. Its been a long evolution, but everytime you get something done....... it turns out so much better than you first imagined. I just wish you could keep it at that ride height.
screw it, currently i don't have any plans to change it, however when it gets on the road it might be a different story. BTW a header change won't make a difference, unless i went with a small diameter pipe, thats just how 4, 2" primary header tubes fit under a second gen. If i went with anything else, there would be a significant power loss. Tom how much space is sufficient between the frame and the bump stop? also how do i want to set up the tie rod ends, you can sort of see them in one of the pictures. Also I prefer Lemons headers! Also how does an alloy block have anything to do with ground clearance????
formula
08-23-2005, 08:37 PM
ah man you suck. sooo hot.
i wouldn't bother changing anything unless you find a spot where you scrap really bad on a regular basis, i.e a set of train tracks on the way to the local cruise or something. it looks wayyy too cool to change it.
chicane67
08-23-2005, 09:16 PM
BTW a header change won't make a difference, unless i went with a small diameter pipe, (*1) thats just how 4, 2" primary header tubes fit under a second gen. (*2) Tom how much space is sufficient between the frame and the bump stop? (*3) also how do i want to set up the tie rod ends, you can sort of see them in one of the pictures. (*4) Also I prefer Lemons headers! (*5) Also how does an alloy block have anything to do with ground clearance????
*1) Uh, no. I have done second gens with 2 1/4" primaries and dont have your problems...... with the right set of headers, that is.
*2) Dont know your motion ratio right off the top of my head, but, enough to give you around 2-2.5" for enough compression travel before bump.
*3) Really, the only way to do it would be with a bump steer guage. I wouldnt want to (eyeball = half@ss) something that specific.
*4) Why dont you ask Tyler, Shane, Chris and myself about Lemons headers and what it takes to fit them correctly ?? Another question, do you have the smalll block mounts in the chassis ??
*5) You were making reference to "lightening up the front end, cuz its too low". Alloy blocks are lighter, riiiiiiiiggghhtt ?? :bicycle:
MrQuick
08-23-2005, 09:19 PM
quit being a vaj. I got some casters you can put on your collecters.
Tom, I took a ton of weight off of the front end, that is why the fron tend was so high, I had the same springs on the car before and it sat pretty good. Between teh glass hood, no ac, aluminum heads, and the battery in the trunk, the front looked like a 4x4, so i cut a coil off of my hotchkis springs, and it super dropped it, so the alloy block don't mean nothing. I do have small block frame mounts on it, so that is part of the reason the headers are so high up(which is a good thing) THey aren't going any closer to the floor, i can't even stick my pinky inbetween the floor board and the top of the headers. So how much space between the top of the bump stop and the bottom of the frame is sufficient?
MrQuick
08-23-2005, 09:37 PM
plus you have the flowmaster scavenger collecters
Roger Poirier
08-23-2005, 09:46 PM
Yody,
Go to Threads started by Roger Poirier. Look up: Reworked Headers for More Clearance.
Problem solved. I didn't even have to rework the trans crossmember.
Gained over 2" of clearance.
R.P.
thats pretty good, not sure if i have the room for that though, that might be an option down the road, i might want to do, that is pretty damn cool
jeffandre
08-23-2005, 10:29 PM
Also how does an alloy block have anything to do with ground clearance????
Get an alloy block and drop a little more weight, which will raise the front end, but then again, you might end up cutting the springs again and starting this all over...
Blown353
08-24-2005, 11:14 AM
I have the solution to keep your ride height and clear obstacles... handling may be negatively affected though.
The Solution (http://www.redshydros.com)
:rotfl:
Keep this in mind about modding the headers... welding onto coated exhaust is REALLY tough and often impossible. Something about the coating makes it extremely difficult to get a clean weld (or often get a weld to hold at all) even if you blast the coating off.
Troy
adam can you post some pics from underneath the car like i did?
ANyone else notice how good the second gens look with the front nose, it looks so much more proportional without the front nose sticking out.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
79_EFI_Z
08-24-2005, 02:13 PM
1. Who makes that hood?
2. Is it steel or glass? Does it come in fiberglass?
3. Is it 2" or 3"
4. Why am I numbering these?
1. VFN fiberglass
2. fiberglass bolt on
3. 3"
4. not sure but the hood was custom made and cost $$
OLDFLM
08-25-2005, 06:19 AM
ANyone else notice how good the second gens look with the front nose, it looks so much more proportional without the front nose sticking out.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
As a fellow Formula owner I have to agree... but what to do?
A custom front with the traditional Pontiac openings x 2 that go all the
way out to the edges (like a 69 Camaro) with the headlights in the stock location but inside the grill area... and keep the "beak" in the middle! Just a thought...
V/R,
Ty
Drewhelm
08-25-2005, 01:35 PM
Hmmmm, I just recently saw a pic of a 78 TA with a 68 bird nose grafted in. It actually looked okay.....
litevette
08-29-2005, 06:19 PM
Very nice car !!!
DarkBuddha
08-29-2005, 06:49 PM
Well you've done it now... Pro-scrape. I seem to recall seeing you post about being fond of street driven cars, so I know you've got to be extra annoyed by the clearance issue. That said, the stance is gorgeous... dead on. So, here's my thought... don't change it yet. Get it done, get it in published, then fix it with some 3/4 length 2" headers. That way you get all the glory and can then go back to driving the living crap out of it. :drive1:
Jagarang
08-30-2005, 05:02 AM
This seems to be catching on.....
http://www.ichibanhydraulics.com/ford6.html
68protouring454
08-30-2005, 05:30 AM
KUDOS to you for nailing the stance, many kudos for you, nice work, looks great, llet us know what you decide
Ripper
08-31-2005, 12:09 AM
looking good yody!
However, I know it won't help your headerproblem, but why don't you use these from speedwaymotors?
Then you can use some stiffer springs too - you'll need that with that ride height!!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
MrQuick
08-31-2005, 10:39 AM
good point anders... thats a great solve cody, maybe dennis can help you with that.
best of both worlds
well, i already got my new springs, gonna just cut 1/2 coil off. That would be a good idea, I'm not very fond of purple though :) However you still have to take the springs out to level it, so its still just as much work. If this doesnt' work, coilovers here i come! Vince, aren't you supposed to be at work?
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