Project Phoenix: 1968 Pontiac Firebird [Archive]

captainofiron

06-11-2013, 11:20 AM

So I figured that I should start a build thread, all the other 1st gen Bird guys on here kept motivating me to push through and get started.

Background: My Firebird was my first car, I got it in the 90s, and I had a bunch of plans, but nothing ever happened because I kept getting transferred around. The previous owner had pulled out the Poncho power and put in a Chevy 454, and cut up the firewall and crossmember to get it to fit.
In '04 I really started getting traction, buying stuff, and getting stuff ready, but before I made any huge progress I blew out my ACL and the surgery and rehab wiped out my savings.

Fast forward to last year, the car is at my parents house all torn apart. They are getting transferred and I need to bring it up here, so it really lit a fire under my butt, the car does not roll currently. The axle is out of it. So I finally finished up the projects around the house, cleaned up the garage up to the level that I could bring the Bird home.

Specs: The car was a 350HO automatic car originally, it had an automatic transmission and the 8.2 BOP axle, it had AC, power steering but manual brakes. The exterior was Verdoro green with a black vinyl top and the black deluxe interior with buckets and console.

The Plan: I have a Pontiac 400, and the 8.2 BOP, but I will install a T-56, EFI, and disk brakes to bring the car into the 21st century. I plan to make the car look as original as possible, but upgrade as much as I can. For example: take 4th gen Trans Am seats and reupholster them to look like the original Deluxe seats.

Engine: Pontiac 400 YC block
Heads: currently 670
transmission: N/A
Axle: 8.2 BOP 3.55 eaton posi
suspension: stock
brakes: stock drums

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/FIREBIRD-1.jpg

T_Raven

06-11-2013, 04:20 PM

We're gonna need more pictures than that

Sounds like a good plan to start. What EFI are you using? I've got Accel DFI that'll be going in my 67 but I haven't messed with it yet

captainofiron

06-12-2013, 04:22 AM

The majority of the pictures I have are from long before the days of digital cameras, hahha

Ill post some up here in a little, I have some more in my photobucket

The plan is to use a hybrid Edelbrock/FAST system, pretty much the same one that Butler Pontiac sells

captainofiron

06-12-2013, 04:35 AM

so here are some pictures

This is how the interior looks right now
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/P1010561-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/P1010557-1.jpg

here is my axle
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/P1010564-1.jpg

Its a new jersey car, so the floorpan is mostly rust

captainofiron

06-12-2013, 04:38 AM

These are the 15x7 Rally II wheels that I got off of ebay for really cheap and restored, I media blasted them until no rust and smooth, then painted them the charcoal, masked off the area and then sprayed the argent silver

Before: https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/001-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/002-1.jpg

After: https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/zafter-1.jpg

BirdsThaWord

06-12-2013, 12:57 PM

Excellent job on the wheels. Looks like some careful masking work there!

PonchoJohn

06-12-2013, 01:05 PM

Looking good. FYI- Year One markets a 17" aluminum version of the Rally II that looks pretty sweet on first gens.

captainofiron

06-12-2013, 01:34 PM

Looking good. FYI- Year One markets a 17" aluminum version of the Rally II that looks pretty sweet on first gens.

Thanks

Yea I have seen them, I was pretty dead set on the Intro Vista in 17"
BUT then I moved the NM and the roads are terrible here, so for a nice ride Im going with the 15s and if I ever move back to TX Ill switch to the 17s and get bigger brakes

Excellent job on the wheels. Looks like some careful masking work there!

they sell masking kits, but are they are pricey for what they are, a cheap roll of masking tape and an exacto knife did the job perfectly

67rstbkt

06-12-2013, 02:02 PM

It's about time you started a build thread! Looking forward to updates :)

captainofiron

06-13-2013, 06:12 AM

It's about time you started a build thread! Looking forward to updates :)

I had clicked start new thread probably like 5 times, but always got busy and ended up not writing anything, hahaha

Buryingthesun

06-13-2013, 06:25 AM

I like seeing so many first gen birds these day, they used to be a rare commodity

captainofiron

06-14-2013, 07:27 AM

I like seeing so many first gen birds these day, they used to be a rare commodity

when I first found mine, I thought it was a Camaro, it was out in the middle of nowhere in West Texas, with the tail sticking out of a shed, I stopped and asked the farmer about the Camaro and he said "huh? you mean my son's Firebird" after we wheeled it out, I saw the bumper and fell in love.

captainofiron

06-14-2013, 07:28 AM

UPDATE:

I found some seats from a 99 Trans Am, and should be picking them up this weekend, they arent in the best condition, but I got them dirt cheap. I dont really care about the upholstery since I will be redoing them in vinyl and comfortweave like the original deluxe seats

captainofiron

06-17-2013, 05:00 AM

Here are the seats I picked up

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/13060155_zps12dd206d-1.jpg

not in the best shape, but I really didnt care about the current upholstery. Basically the plan is to reupholster them in the original style. So black vinyl and "comfortweave"

here is how the original seats look:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/SeatPicture042-1.jpg

so Im going to put the comfortweave inside the red region in this picture:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/taseats1_zps971c4e38-1.jpg

captainofiron

07-02-2013, 03:47 PM

UPDATE!

I got my axle back today.

It was not a pleasant transaction though. The guy told me 425 when I first took it, I waited a while, I heard nothing, I gave him both my cell and my work number. Nothing

I waited 2 weeks, I go and he says I forgot to give him the bearing caps, so I went and found them and took them, 2 weeks, nothing. I go back and he says I didnt take him axle shaft bearings (I know I did) so he bought some to buy.

Well finally 2 months later I get my axle from this guy. He wants me to pay $605

according to him the shaft bearings cost 105 and the labor was 75
I argued with him, and showed him on my phone how the good bearings cost only 20 bucks each.

I wanted to walk out, but I dont have too many axles sitting around, haha

captainofiron

08-07-2013, 08:05 AM

Update:

So I met a guy who has a transportation business, and he is hooking me up with a great deal to transport both my Impala and my Firebird up here from South Texas for $950

Hopefully I will be wrenching happily by the beginning of September

captainofiron

08-07-2013, 02:19 PM

I think I finally decided which color I am going to paint the exterior. The original color was the verdoro green, which I dont like very much.

I originally wanted to paint it black, but here in Southern New Mexico the summers are insane, and getting in my wife's black SUV after it has been sitting a little in the sun is TOO hot.

So I decided to go with the Pontiac Spring Mist Green (color code P in 1968)

it sort of has a silver look but with green/grey tones in it, looks really sharp.

Take a look, here is the color on a 68 Convertible
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/08/springmistgreen_zps5da175d5-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/08/springmistgreen4_zpsbccdd9b4-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/08/springmistgreen2_zps4ae32e29-1.jpg

btbob

08-07-2013, 03:40 PM

captainofiron

08-08-2013, 07:30 AM

Looks Awesome. Cant wait to see more. I saw that color on a 68 GTO somewhere. It'll stop you in your tracks in person.

Give us some more details on the 400 build, and what EFI you chose. Should be a cool project.

Always love to see another firebird.

-Still partial to black though. :)

Im planning on building an Edelbrock/FAST hybrid system.

Basically the Edelbrock part will be the manifold, injectors and rails
The FAST part will be the ECU/wiring, the throttle body, the pump/regulator

and for the tank I want a baffled stainless unit, but I know Tanks has a pretty nice one for cheap, but dont think its stainless.

As for the 400, Im leaning toward this:
Pontiac 400 (YC block) 030 over
flat top pistions, hoping for around 10 or 10.5:1 compression
Edelbrock 72 cc round port heads, prepped by either Butler or SD
Comp hydraulic roller cam (.502i and .510e w/1.5rockers) XR276HR
promagnum 1.65 roller rockers
Edelbrock Victor EFI (Performer RPM with Injector bosses)
Edelbrock 29 or 35lb/hr injectors not sure yet
FAST EZ-EFI multiport set up
Dougs headers with the 1.75" primaries and 3" collectors

I did a quick run on desktop dyno program and its saying
516 ft-lbs @ 3500rpm
437hp @ 5000rpm

I think that it should be a pretty accurate number (maybe a little high). I might even go with a bigger cam

btbob

08-08-2013, 09:43 AM

Im planning on building an Edelbrock/FAST hybrid system.

Basically the Edelbrock part will be the manifold, injectors and rails
The FAST part will be the ECU/wiring, the throttle body, the pump/regulator

and for the tank I want a baffled stainless unit, but I know Tanks has a pretty nice one for cheap, but dont think its stainless.

As for the 400, Im leaning toward this:
Pontiac 400 (YC block) 030 over
flat top pistions, hoping for around 10 or 10.5:1 compression
Edelbrock 72 cc round port heads, prepped by either Butler or SD
Comp hydraulic roller cam (.502i and .510e w/1.5rockers) XR276HR
promagnum 1.65 roller rockers
Edelbrock Victor EFI (Performer RPM with Injector bosses)
Edelbrock 29 or 35lb/hr injectors not sure yet
FAST EZ-EFI multiport set up
Dougs headers with the 1.75" primaries and 3" collectors

I did a quick run on desktop dyno program and its saying
516 ft-lbs @ 3500rpm
437hp @ 5000rpm

I think that it should be a pretty accurate number (maybe a little high). I might even go with a bigger cam

Oh man, that setup should be a monster. Cant wait to see it. You should deff be able to get away with some more cam, but I like the way you're going now just fine.

For tanks I went with this guy

http://www.jegs.com/i/Ricks-Hot-Rod-Shop/781/3081/10002/-1?parentProductId=758723

It'll prolly work well in your application too. In tank GM pump ( replacements quick and easy), should support your HP requirements pretty easy, baffled, and stainless steel.

captainofiron

08-08-2013, 10:39 AM

Oh man, that setup should be a monster. Cant wait to see it. You should deff be able to get away with some more cam, but I like the way you're going now just fine.

For tanks I went with this guy

http://www.jegs.com/i/Ricks-Hot-Rod-Shop/781/3081/10002/-1?parentProductId=758723

It'll prolly work well in your application too. In tank GM pump ( replacements quick and easy), should support your HP requirements pretty easy, baffled, and stainless steel.

I think the 1.65 rockers will bump up the cam a little, but who knows, I might go with the XR288HR-10 which is bigger, but dont know if its as "streetable" as the XR276HR

I always read/hear people saying after building their engine they wished they would have gone with a bigger cam

Man that tank is REALLY nice, but that will take a big chunk out of my budget

I was thinking more along the lines of this one
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=347/category_id=128/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd347.htm

Pontiac Chris

08-08-2013, 12:44 PM

captainofiron

08-08-2013, 01:45 PM

Nice build, love the color choice, looking forward to seeing more pics once you get her home.

I have a comp 242˚/246˚ .628" lift ,112 lsa in my 400 Pontiac, with ported Edelbrock heads, its perfectly streetable as far as idle quality and low rpm torque, its a little shy on vacuum (about 8-9") but my dual diaphragm 8" booster seems to cope quite well. So you can definitely go with more cam.

Thanks man.

do you happen to have a video of your cars idle? 325cfm listed in your sig is a little above than I what I was shooting for, but definitely good to know that you are up in the 0.600s on your cam and its not bad.

Is that a custom cam? Is that with 1.65 rockers?
Thanks again

btbob

08-08-2013, 02:09 PM

I think the 1.65 rockers will bump up the cam a little, but who knows, I might go with the XR288HR-10 which is bigger, but dont know if its as "streetable" as the XR276HR

I always read/hear people saying after building their engine they wished they would have gone with a bigger cam

Man that tank is REALLY nice, but that will take a big chunk out of my budget

I was thinking more along the lines of this one
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=347/category_id=128/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd347.htm

Im rocking a 041 repro that was an extra a buddy had from his project, and.....

....wait for it.....

.... I wish I'd gone for a bigger cam.

That tank looks great. I really like that it looks OE, but does everything you want. Nice choice. And it's way more economical :twothumbs. I remember ordering mine and doing the deep breath before I hit "checkout" lol. The 1.65 rockers will deff make the 276 act a little bigger. Either way it'll be a hell of alot of fun.

Pontiac Chris

08-08-2013, 02:16 PM

Thanks man.

do you happen to have a video of your cars idle? 325cfm listed in your sig is a little above than I what I was shooting for, but definitely good to know that you are up in the 0.600s on your cam and its not bad.

Is that a custom cam? Is that with 1.65 rockers?
Thanks again

Yes its a custom grind and yes with 1:65 rockers. Here's a link for idle/light rev: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bq15Uw0GwI

captainofiron

08-09-2013, 10:22 AM

Im rocking a 041 repro that was an extra a buddy had from his project, and.....
....wait for it.....
.... I wish I'd gone for a bigger cam.

That tank looks great. I really like that it looks OE, but does everything you want. Nice choice. And it's way more economical :twothumbs. I remember ordering mine and doing the deep breath before I hit "checkout" lol. The 1.65 rockers will deff make the 276 act a little bigger. Either way it'll be a hell of alot of fun.

hahaha yea bigger cam, haha

Yea I like that tank alot, especially the price, and where I live rust really isnt an issue, so I think Im good

Yes its a custom grind and yes with 1:65 rockers. Here's a link for idle/light rev: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bq15Uw0GwI

Awesome thanks

captainofiron

08-20-2013, 10:29 AM

So I got to my parents house and this is how my poor car looks
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/08/13040080_zps2dd6f282-1.jpg

(I built my mom some really nice shelves so she would stop putting stuff on my car, but alas, it was still a 1968 Pontiac Firebird Shelf and storage unit, haha)

My plan to get it ready for the transporter to pick up the cars was to get the rear axle back under the car, leave the rear drums bare, and fix the front brakes just enough to get them ready to get on and off the trailer

I bought the heavy duty 1/2" u-bolts which gave me some problems I had to drill out the shock plates, and because the ubolts were thicker they didnt shift enough so I had to elongate the bolt holes on the shock plates, but finally I had them on and torqued them down. The tires I had surprisingly were still ok and held air, so I saved some money there.

when I jacked it up to put it back on teh ground, my leafs were almost so soft that the axle was only an inch or 2 away from the bump stops, haha

But FINALLY after about 10 years of being on jack stands and having no rear axle, it was back on all 4 wheels!!!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/08/13080043_zps9a264341-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/08/13080044_zps8c816107-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/08/13080051_zps4c4f323a-1.jpg

captainofiron

08-28-2013, 08:39 AM

well guys Monday morning, after a stressful weekend filled with delivery delays my cars showed up

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/08/13080084_zps5788162a-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/08/13080085_zps9371d846-1.jpg

captainofiron

09-26-2013, 05:16 AM

When I first bought the car, it had a 68/69 Camaro center console in it, and I never thought those consoles matched the 68 dash. So I traded it for a 68 Firebird console, but an auto one, and I thought I would be able to find the top manual trans plate, well no dice, nobody makes them, and up until this year nobody offered a repro manual (classic industries has them now, but they are like 700-800 bucks)

SO I was looking on ebay and I would always get outbid on manual consoles in rough shape, UNTIL now

I got 2 consoles, a beat up auto, and a cut manual, but my plan is to fix the manual one and use it.
The guy told me that the manual trans car had an AC unit and the dash and console were cut to fit it in there... sad, who would hack up something hard to find like that. anyways

Here are some pictures:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/09132013280_zpsa74b560d-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/09132013281_zpsda874b10-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/09132013282_zps766fe7dd-1.jpg

captainofiron

09-26-2013, 05:50 AM

one of my coworkers was suggesting that I install a gauge pack in the cut out area instead of going with the stock look
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/atm10002_w_ml-1.jpg

for anybody who doesnt know what the original console looks like, it is this:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/SteeringWheel_zps93751f6b-1.jpg

AusMarty

09-26-2013, 05:01 PM

I vote Gauge pack.

The clean center console is nice sure.
But without an aircon unit between the dash and the console there's a massive hole. Could tie the two together with a gauge cluster?

ponjohn

09-27-2013, 03:39 PM

What car did the buckets come from?

oweb2

09-30-2013, 11:03 AM

I am going to have/currently having that same issue on my 68 firebird with the consoles. The car was originally an console automatic but I am going to make it a 4-speed and I am going to need a manual console seeing as it has no transmission in it at the moment I figured now was the best time to do it.

captainofiron

09-30-2013, 02:10 PM

I vote Gauge pack.

The clean center console is nice sure.
But without an aircon unit between the dash and the console there's a massive hole. Could tie the two together with a gauge cluster?

There is a bit of a gap between the console and the dash, when I bought the car, it had a little gauge pod, and didnt look too bad

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/P1010556-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/P1010558-1.jpg

if I do the gauge pack on the console, they will be directly forward of the square hole for the 1967 style shifter location

What car did the buckets come from?

are you talking about these?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/SteeringWheel_zps93751f6b-1.jpg
if so that isnt my car, but they look like standard interior buckets in white vinyl.

Buryingthesun

09-30-2013, 04:22 PM

Im going to solve this issue and just fabricate my own dash/console ;)

Nice build, Id love to see that trailer in front of my garage offloading

captainofiron

10-01-2013, 08:26 AM

Im going to solve this issue and just fabricate my own dash/console ;)

Nice build, Id love to see that trailer in front of my garage offloading

thanks man.

Im trying to keep mine a resto-mod car, so a stock looking interior with minor updates that still look stock

captainofiron

02-01-2014, 08:54 AM

So I was able to work on the car a little yesterday, but not by choice, I was in the garage getting some stuff and my wife was leaving for work and locked the door to the house, LOL, so I was locked out without my phone

Anyways, the previous owner of the car put in a BBC 454 in the car, so it had some "custom" work done. The car is from upstate NY so it has corrosion issues which Im going to deal with.

Here is some of the stuff that I found yesterday:
First thing is the giant "custom" radiator that weighed a million pounds. I think it was out of a Truck
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/14010092_zps4f9be36e-1.jpg
after I pulled out the radiator I found all sorts of interesting cutting and welding
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/14010099_zps29539a11-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/36452a1dc4de472cbe1e5c781c999d66_zps989f-1.jpg?t=1391273335

So Im gonna have to replace the radiator support, thankfully the idiot previous owner didnt cut the frame to wedge in the radiator, he did hammer in the bottom corners to get it to clear the frame

But he did cut up the cross member, shouldnt be too hard to patch up
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/14010095_zps96b6c3b0-1.jpg

And finally he did a custom heater/AC delete, which was riveting in a hand cut piece of sheet metal, which was cut horribly and crooked
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/14010092_zps4f9be36e-1.jpg

So there I sat, depressed and hungry in my Pajamas on the garage floor.... haha

shizzy

02-01-2014, 03:30 PM

So there I sat, depressed and hungry in my Pajamas on the garage floor.... haha

Been there... Except its usually, Depressed, hungry, out of beer and out of smokes.

captainofiron

07-15-2014, 07:34 AM

Well I sold my Jeep, so that should be some cash infusion into this project.... hopefully

captainofiron

08-20-2014, 01:58 PM

So sometime this week Im going to meet up with the guy that will be doing the metal work on the Bird. Pretty excited.

Other than that no real updates.

Im still going back and forth on what setup to run on the rear.

I have the BOP 8.2 that I will use, but I had been thinking to go with Global West's leafs. But lately I have been wondering if I should do something like a DSE Quadralink setup

Any opinions?

Zoomin

08-21-2014, 11:51 AM

I like the green you picked, nice to see something other than red or black.

captainofiron

08-21-2014, 12:51 PM

I like the green you picked, nice to see something other than red or black.

Thanks man.

I wanted it black for the longest time, then saw a million of them. Then I wanted the original color (verdoro green) but again saw a ton of them. So I think this is a really cool color, but also not very common

here is a pretty good video of the color under lights and outside
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdixpOqJWAA

captainofiron

08-21-2014, 12:52 PM

So after looking around and talking to some people, I think Im going with the ride tech bolt on 4 link and some coil overs. They wont kill my budget and I can install it.

lucky13firebird

08-23-2014, 06:30 PM

If it's a 4 link similar to a gm a body, I think you'll be pretty happy with it

captainofiron

08-25-2014, 06:47 AM

If it's a 4 link similar to a gm a body, I think you'll be pretty happy with it

Looks fairly similar.

So far I think that is the plan. Im just trying to find out what sway bar setup to run on that 4 link setup

captainofiron

08-25-2014, 06:48 AM

Also here are some pictures of the car while I was making the move from NM to ATX

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/FirebirdLCmove1_zpse59c1b33-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/FirebirdLCmove2_zpsabc022b4-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/FirebirdLCmove3_zps84981367-1.jpg

captainofiron

07-11-2016, 08:23 AM

So after a rough year and a half, I finally started trying to push this project through.

I pulled the trigger this past weekend on a bunch of sheetmetal for my Firebird, classic industries had 25% off and I had a bunch of gift certificates from birthday/christmas etc so I went crazy.

Next up will be to get with my metal body guy to find a media blaster so we can get this thing solid again.