Oh, it just got REAL. (Vengeance/bumblebee)

[TonyL]

A whole article on Jalopnik. Paramount will be soon involved. JUSTICE (http://jalopnik.com/did-transformers-4-rip-off-this-guys-design-for-the-ne-510655228)

[MidnightSpecial]

LOL Tony you instigated this just a taaaad.

I agree Vengeance should at least get a nod.

I would be pissed that everyone will come up to him afterwards and say "Hey man thats a pretty good bumblebee clone"

:facepalm:

[k9kevin81]

This story is everywhere! I would be pissed too, a lot of us put everything we have into these cars. At least give the man a shoutout before you make a damn near carbon copy of his car.

[TonyL]

I started this without a doubt. I've emailed the writer of that article with all that ammo, the writer of the transfomers movie blog, see here (http://transformerslive.blogspot.com/2013/05/bumblebees-alt-mode-confirmed-for.html) and I was the one who let Mr.Vengeance know what was up. I give a care what goes on in our little pocket of the world. I've been on this site since it was an EZboard back in 98. I've watched countless famous cars get built and helped with the design of many of them in one way or another. You guys are my family. We're here because we are passionate about our hobby and we love our cars. We love other's cars. We love originality and expression. We might have differing views and goals and means, but at the end of the day we all respect each other. That's what makes this and other sites like it great. It's our home. Ours. So when I saw someone "bite" Vengeance's style, I lost it. I was there, and remember how carefully guarded information on Vengeance was while it was in the shop. He was afraid someone would "bite" his style before he got done. Knowing this, and seeing what's happened infuriates me. I want the world to know where that design came from. I want credit where it is due. And I would stay up late, fight on messageboards, email whomever I had to if I thought any one of the members here had been done wrong. It's who I am and what I do. I will always fiercely defend you all, and your right to express yourself.

[BuddyP]

I would be pissed that everyone will come up to him afterwards and say "Hey man thats a pretty good bumblebee clone"

And that person should endure one free b!tch slap!

[MidnightSpecial]

I was just picking fun at you. I agree whole heartedly. Vengeance should at least get a nod.

On a side note...a lot of the poster on Jalopnik are being *****s about it. A lot of the digging Vengeance acting like it wasnt hard to make the car he has now. and i quote

"You've got a factory body with some aftermarket doodads tacked on. anyone mouth-breather with a credit card and a JCWhitney catalog can do the same."

These guys have no clue the level of work and creativity it takes to build these cars. Most of those guys have probably never built a car from the ground up and if they have i would venture to say it was never at the level's of Vengeance's Camaro.

I read Jalopnik but looking at their posters comments i dont know if i want to be a part of that community. Seems like a bunch of hating and naysaying just to make them look like they are higher on the automotive food chain. Pretty petty for a community of car fanatics.

[19,69camaro]

I read Jalopnik but looking at their posters comments i dont know if i want to be a part of that community. Seems like a bunch of hating and naysaying just to make them look like they are higher on the automotive food chain. Pretty petty for a community of car fanatics.

Right there with you man. I love Jalopnik too but get irritated with the all the trolling by posters who are most likely 17yo's who are driving their mommys auto 3-series.

[MidnightSpecial]

Alright I'm done with Jalopnik...these comments are just full of dumb ass. Just wow man. If this guy ever walked up on Vengeance's car he wouldn't say this. Just furthers my case that these guys are just trying to one up each other with their elitism.


Also, he doesn't seem remotely close to putting his every last dollar into this car. Not only is that absurd, but it's clearly not true, from the pictures he clearly has a large home on acreage.

He might have spent all of his allowance on building his toy car, but it didn't go poor to build a car. That's clearly not the case, would be moronic if true, and makes mockery of people who actually get down to their last dollar to accomplish something, or just plain survive.

This guy is clearly a whining, naive type and perpetuating his claim to fame is certainly silly, too. You don't make a post "OMG, TRANSFORMERS STOLE THIS". No, they didn't. You can't steal the design of a car that already exists and has patents, morons.

Theft is when something someone owns is stolen by another party. The most that happened here is, perhaps, a jocking of style. It's like saying "I wore my hat crooked and my pants sagged with a white shirt down to my knees the other day, and some cheeky chap had the same thing on the next day. He clearly STOLE it from me"

Okay, go to the police with that one, idiot.

This entire non-story is moronic, blown way out of proportion by naive people.

He has a large house and a lot of acreage???? WTF. So you are saying based on the guys house and yard he has plenty of money to spend and somehow discounts his car? What kind of logic is that? Incredibly judgmental.

[JEFFTATE]

Vengeance has some good lookin flares .

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

hey guys

home from work

Wow I didnt know there was so much confusion on what I am saying..

first off..

I never claimed I OWN anything but my car..
I never said I want to sue ANYONE..
I never claimed to be the first to do ANYTHING..
I never invented fender flares..
I never invented audi door handles.. ahah
I never invented Vintage Trans Am racing or the usual modifications for it.
etc..


All im saying is this.

The whole combination.. all of it.. TOGETHER is more than just a coincidence.
For those who dont follow the pro touring movement and firstgen camaros in the first place immediately write off what im talking about as bull because they say everything has been done to a firstgen.. and to a degree in parts yes.. but the full combination of what was done on my car.. I would say only "Bumblebee" did practically all the same modifications.

look.. look at the whole thing as a whole..

Vengeance is a 1967.. ------------- Bumblebee is a 1967
Audi door handles(because i was a mk3-er) ------------- Vette style handles that look like mine
Blacked out wing windows ------------- Blacked out wing windows
Front stabilizer bars ------------- Front stabilizer bars
CF chinspoiler ------------- CF chinspoiler
NewGen wheels in 19s ------------- NewGen wheels in 19s
grey centers with gloss black lips ------------- grey centers with gloss black lips
stepped lips(as the company couldnt make 18s in stepped) ------------- stepped lips
shaved front lower valance.. ------------- shaved front lower valance.
Vision mirrors(my old setup) ------------- Vision mirrors
removed front window trim ------------- removed front window trim
completely blacked out grille ------------- completely blacked out grille
full length bumblebee stripe in carbon ------------- full length bumblebee stripe in yellow.



now.. none of those things above EITHER of us is the inventor of.. nor either of us is claiming.

but AS A WHOLE.. TOTAL PACKAGE..

isnt it a bit suspicious?

heres a pic of my car with the flares on comparison..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/comparison-1.jpg

so with just a little pshop put a yellow stripe and take of my GranSport stripes

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/Fumblebee-1.jpg



Can you all at least just put yourself in my shoes.. I do think its cool and im not mad just a little bummed.. just I know whats going to happen.. which some of you already said..

so please stop with the "he wants to get a suit going with Paramount"

Hell I would have been happy if they put Venny in the movie.. like if I was driving her by Bumblebee and it stops him in his tracks and scans it like the first movie to copy.. I would be STOKED on that!
it would be a strait up "Hey optimus.. did you see that black camaro?.. hold up im going to change into thug mode"

Id be proud then..

but damn can i not have ANY credit for doing as a whole what i did to a 67 camaro?.. not in its individual parts but as a whole?.. please find another [b]67[b] with the EXACT same combinations of modifications.. all of them.. together on one car like mine... bumblebee happens to count off all on the checklist.

oh.. and funny thing is the guys that folks posted above suchs as the One Lap camaro are my homies.. we WOULD share similar modifications..


but other than that.. guys im cool.. please dont make this about money cause I have my own.. and I aint mad yall.. I really am not.

I just wanted to let it out.

[TonyL]

yep. Credit is all i've been after for ya since the get go. Paramount or Mike bay needs to reach out to you, and let you decide where to go from here. Let your car make a cameo... I'll set the scene for them. Bumblebee's looking for a new alt mode. Turns into an ally and sees your car sitting there, as you spray a bitchin techstyle mural on a wall behind it. Bumblee's like "aw hell yeah!" (scan) and then slinks off looking like Veng with a bit of yellow thrown on. You see it through the gaps between the building as it rolls off, give a smile and a nod, end scene.

[Removed user as requested]

Sue there asses off. They got more money than they know what to do with and inevitably your car will be a bumblebee copy. Get what you can as the rest you can't control. That is just straight up BS. BAH!

[Whistler]

I'd be on the fence about the thing as well. On one side , it's flattering that your positively sick car was immortalized in the movie, and on the other side all you wanted was an "atta boy" and you were denied. It'd never make it to court if you sued them, theyd give you something in a " cost of defense" type settlement just to go the hell away.

You could always get a copy of their movie as soon as it comes out, change the title and some of the background music and sell it as your own. " what? You think you're the first one to think of a movie about alien robots?? Just a coincidence dude." :)

[LeighP]

Law suits are waste of time......but for the poor press that the producers might get, you'd think it might be nice for them to acknowledge the car in the movie is based on someone else's original work.
Just polite, is all.
Sorry, but I'm almost sure your going to have people saying you built a nice clone...... oh, dear.....

[72BBSwinger]

Mr. V, To have a UNIQUE Camaro this day and age is pretty difficult, and damn near impossible, but yours is without a doubt VERY unique. I feel your pain, and for this to happen, it without a doubt is chicken **** copying period.

[Matt@BOS]

Just finished reading over a fair portion of the Jalopnik comments. It reminded me of how much of a car culture bubble we live in. It is amazing, really, a lot of people, car people, just won't be able to relate and understand. It isn't that they don't share a common passion for cars, rather they don't have the same unique passion for building the types of cars we do, they don't live and breath this kind of stuff (for better or worse, haha) and as such we can't expect them to understand the subtle nuances of modifications or how certain thematic design elements contribute to, and in turn, create the whole overall image without knowing the context of what we are building in shops and garages and taking to shows and track days.

I see an undeniable likeness between the movie car and yours, and that would bug the hell out of me if I were you, Mr. V. When you put your own distinctive touch on something no matter how small, and someone goes and creates something with a striking resemblance, right after you do, and you know that your design falls into the category of far more than just an influence, but not quite enough to satisfy the vague 10 percent copywrite difference... well that just plain sucks. Funny story: I built a one-off front spoiler for my car and not long after finishing my car a guy joined the forum and started selling something remarkable similar. So similar that I frequently meet guys that tell me they recognize the spoiler and that they purchased one from the same guy on p-t.com. And I'm just talking about a simple little spoiler, and it just bugs the hell out of me, not that I would do anything, but it is nice to be able to vent about it, and I imagine you've definitely earned the right to vent and wish credit was given over this whole situation.

Matt

[SShep71]

I just read through all of this. Amir it sucks that you are going through this. It is pretty lame that you will prob not get any credit at all. It is to common and easy to replicate somones ideas anymnore. The internet has made common knowledge some of the secrets that used to be held in high regard. IT is one thing to use a likelyness of an image for enjoyment, but when you cross a line in which monetary and personal gain is made form a replication af an image it is a legal issue. You are playing it cool, but there was a line crossed here that should not have been. If you want I would suggest that you watch this video (http://vimeo.com/22053820), it is from a design stand point but the monetary concept still follows, a design is a design. I would never try to push you into something, and I am not sure if you are not already in the process of it, but a simple call to an attorny wouldnt hurt. Its one of the "if they do it once they will do it again". I would be a little upset to see it happen to others. Just my .02

[TonyHuntimer]

This is ironic...I was thinking the same thing when I saw the Transformers Camaro last week. Amir's car looks soooo much better.

Tony Huntimer
Tony's Speed Shop

[andrewb70]

Amir,

I've been thinking about this for a few days now. I don't know if you have any actual legal ground to stand on, because I am not a lawyer. However, if whoever was in charge of the movie production had any sort of morals, they would have gone about this in a completely different manner. They should have come to you and said "look, we love your car, it is what we envision Bumblebee 4 to be....how about we paint a yellow stripe on your car, and use it in all the 'beauty shots' in the movie, and we will pay you xxxxxx amount."

I just finished watching all of the Fast and Furious movies. There were several cars that I recognized in the various episodes that were built by Steve Strope. I have no doubt that Steve or the car owners (or both) got paid to have those cars in the movie. Having those cars in the movie adds legitimacy to their story line.

If it was me, I would at the very least, consult with a copyright lawyer. As Tony L said, you are an artist, and your car is a canvas. Yes, you didn't invent the "camaro" much like you didn't build the walls on to which you paint your murals. Nevertheless, the murals are still an expression of your creative work, just like your Camaro is an expression of your creative work.

Andrew

[shmoov69]

Well Amir, that is awesome that they cloned your car for a movie!! But SUCKS the way it went down and didn't contact you! I'd take That advice to at least "talk" to a copyright lawyer to see what they say, worth a couple hundred bucks for sure, and I am NOT a lawyer fan!!

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! (Says the guy with a red 69 Camaro with TTII's!!! LOL!)

[T_Raven]

Hell I would have been happy if they put Venny in the movie.. like if I was driving her by Bumblebee and it stops him in his tracks and scans it like the first movie to copy.. I would be STOKED on that!
it would be a strait up "Hey optimus.. did you see that black camaro?.. hold up im going to change into thug mode"

Id be proud then..



That woulda been bad ass. Like has been said, it just sucks that people are constantly going to think you tried to make a Bumblebee clone and will sit and tell you all the things you did wrong. I'd have a hard time not punching people. It's bad enough everyone that sees my 79 TA calls it a "Bandit" and my 89 TA Kitt

[riles]

A lot of people getting angry over trivial stuff on here. Unfortunately non-car people are going to use whatever reference they have to 'describe' your car. It becomes your job to educate the people who do not know any better. I've met a few car guys that were pompous a$$****es, if you asked them about they're cars and you 'dared' to not recognize their efforts, they'd take it as an insult even though there was no intention to insult. Explain to these people rather than get angry at them. Who knows, you may be the influence for future car people.
Let's face it, we all use styling cues from things we've seen in the past (trans am racing, movie cars ,etc) that influenced our decision on how our builds will go. As others have stated , there are only a limited number of options out there when it comes to retaining some of the original styling, so there's a good chance that you will see cars very similar to yours. I myself have had ideas for my build , that I thought were 'original', only to find that someone else has done nearly identical builds. With the growing popularity of the pro-touring cars, it's bound to happen. Don't get all worked up over it.

Mr V, you have a great car, be happy someone recognizes your efforts.

[TheJDMan]

Well at least the entire build of Vengence is well documented right here on this forum. I applaud Amir for being so cool about this situation. I also want to give Tony a big thanks for standing up for the PT community as a whole and Vengence in particular.

[crazycarguy22]

I vote for a Mr. Vengeance cameo in the movie.

[NOT A TA]

I'm thinking let the movie help pay for Venny. Some yellow tape for the stripe, head down to the local movie theater and give rides for 20 bucks a pop around the parking lot. Kids get a thrill, develop an interest in cars and collect money for the car fund. Maybe even get theater owners to pay to have Venny show up! A personal appearance by "The Original".

[BuzzKillian]

I'm thinking let the movie help pay for Venny. Some yellow tape for the stripe, head down to the local movie theater and give rides for 20 bucks a pop around the parking lot. Kids get a thrill, develop an interest in cars and collect money for the car fund. Maybe even get theater owners to pay to have Venny show up! A personal appearance by "The Original".

I like this Idea! What a way to promote our hobby in a positive way...

[Removed user as requested]

I like this Idea! What a way to promote our hobby in a positive way...

I think that would be an extremely good idea. It will also help in future with people knowing Vengeance was the original. So you get some credibility where its due, recognized as the original which is what you need and collect some cash on the way. Win/Win situation if you can pull that off.

[Ron S]

Its kinda funny Amir, I remember talking to you before that car was built, you expressed then your worries that your ideas would get jacked and used before the car even was done. At least the car was done first LOL. There is no question that a pic of your car was pinned to the wall at the movie car garage, where somebody said build me this.

It would have been nice if someone would have just shot you an email, but hey its Hollywood. I'm sure they just figured they could copy it cheaper then buying/renting yours, Lord knows they probably crashed 30 of them. It has to make you feel a little better that everyone hear instantly recognized it.

[LeighP]

I'm thinking let the movie help pay for Venny. Some yellow tape for the stripe, head down to the local movie theater and give rides for 20 bucks a pop around the parking lot. Kids get a thrill, develop an interest in cars and collect money for the car fund. Maybe even get theater owners to pay to have Venny show up! A personal appearance by "The Original".

Now THATS the way to get your car's exposure as the original! And the movie guys would be hard pressed to complain about it, lol.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

some new pics..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/tumblr_mnno6cjlpd1rw2fpho1_1280-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/3244-1.jpg

damn they didnt do it right.. it looks like a donk.. they should have lowered the **** outta her and it would have looked proper.




hurts and is awesome at the same time.. looks bad ass out front like that.. makes the other Autobots look like Autozone.

[andrewb70]

...


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/3244-1.jpg

......

Im sorry....that looks terrible. It needs to be jacked down about 4 inches all the way around. Looks like it's ready to go fourwheelin....

To make things worse, they clearly had the budget for a damn Bugatti. I would at the very least have a chat with a lawyer.

Andrew

[CRead01]

while i think all the modifications have been done to other cars, I dont know how anyone can look at those two cars and say that that was not a copy of mr. v's car. should at least get some props for that. I wonder what credit the f-bomb car got for fast and furious.

[MrQuick]

I think Tony is making a The original Street fighter Facebook page so people know who built the original. : )

Man, you would think if they were going to copy the look they would get it right. Maybe all this side publicity, public out cry could get them to use movie magic to drop that thing 3 inches.

[TonyL]

Im sorry....that looks terrible. It needs to be jacked down about 4 inches all the way around. Looks like it's ready to go fourwheelin....

To make things worse, they clearly had the budget for a damn Bugatti. I would at the very least have a chat with a lawyer.

Andrew

I doubt it's real. They made a fake one for the Need for Speed movie. So more than likely it's a kit car with an LS motor in it.

the cars from need for speed dropped by a friends house a while back. He took this

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/needforspeedthemovie01default-1.jpg

look behind the chicken wire. Nothing there.

[novaderrik]

while i think all the modifications have been done to other cars, I dont know how anyone can look at those two cars and say that that was not a copy of mr. v's car. should at least get some props for that. I wonder what credit the f-bomb car got for fast and furious.

the F-Bomb got a story in Hot Rod about it's appearance in that movie.. i think they even showed behind the scenes pics...

regarding the Vengeance Camaro: maybe i live under some kind of a rock but i've never seen it before until i saw a write up on it over on another site last night... but i can't say that i like the way it looks all that much... i know that there's a lot of trick fabrication going on and that it's probably an amazing creation, but wheel flares and flat black paint just look kinda silly to me- especially given how capable other first gen Camaros have shown to be with wheels that fit within the confines of the stock bodywork. they just seem like extra fluff to make the car stand out from other Camaros- much like the wheel flares put on the GNX to differentiate them from a regular GN.. no offense intended- it's just a personal opinion...

as to why it was used for the new Bumblebee: it's a "bold" looking car that fits in visually with the Veyron and Optimus Prime's new "Pep Boys ricer section" truck mode to grab the attention of 5-10 year old boys and make them want to buy the toy version of it. also, it has the flat black paint that has come to be associated with cars that are fast but aren't trying to look fast- but it's so prevalent that everyone just associates flat black paint with a fast car.

[shmoov69]

Well Amir, at least you'll have lots of miniature toy versions of your cat!! LOL!! I think Charlie is the only other one that can say that ain't it?? LOL!

[Bigblue73]

Now this would all be cleared up if the license plate said "VENGENCE"!

Amir your car exhibits the "Pitbull of Pro-Touring" - "Punch you in the forehead for just looking" attitude. It's kick ass - I'd be stoked at the so-close-its-obvious copy but I really think the license plate thing fits the movie as well.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

It doesnt matter if you like what I built derrik, does it?

what does matter is that at the end of the day one of our own basically got Chinese bootlegged by a big shot movie company and wont acknowledge it at least.




i mean..


cmon man..

what happened to rooting for the little guy?!.. isnt this America?.. home of the underdogs that made it happen?
I remember when it was about "sticking it to the man" and fighting the steel toe boot that is trying to keep the little guy down..

and I dont know whats more American than a 1967 Camaro PT/SF brawler..


now it seems like people are helping the boot push me down further..

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Yea the thing is that they didnt know that when I got the wheels made it was to the specs of a minitubbed and AME framed suspension.. so the wheels actually fit under the body because of the narrowed rear axle and narrowed front..

so they asked the people who made my wheels for the EXACT specs and colors to my car(which they told me)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/Screenshot20130603at112524AM-1.png

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/Screenshot20130603at112545AM-1.png

and put them on a stock underpinnings car.. not knowing the amount of work I did..

so they stuck out like a mutha...

so they HAD to make the flares super big..

notice mine are sleeker and simpler?..


but nah.. they didnt copy me.
and notice whos car is the Icon on Newgens name?




but I dont hold anything against Newgen.. make that money..

But if you knew that they were going to copy my car and told you..and you denied it... you have to live with the lie.

[DenRS]

Vengeance looks bad azz. Bumblebee looks horrible. It sits to high. Not to metnion it looks like someone opened up the Bushwacker catalog and ordered fender flares for a Wrangler.

[ho428]

i mean..

cmon man..

what happened to rooting for the little guy?!.. isnt this America?.. home of the underdogs that made it happen?
I remember when it was about "sticking it to the man" and fighting the steel toe boot that is trying to keep the little guy down..


Nah, that's the idealistic America, the real deal is taking someone elses idea and laughing all the way to the bank.

The really sad thing is if you use anything that references their car on your website they'd probably come after you.
I would be vigilant though about making sure they do not try to copyright the design for toy sales. IMO, that would be very-very wrong on their part. Your build is well documented.

[Aficionado]

regarding the Vengeance Camaro: maybe i live under some kind of a rock but i've never seen it before until i saw a write up on it over on another site last night... but i can't say that i like the way it looks all that much... i know that there's a lot of trick fabrication going on and that it's probably an amazing creation, but wheel flares and flat black paint just look kinda silly to me- especially given how capable other first gen Camaros have shown to be with wheels that fit within the confines of the stock bodywork. they just seem like extra fluff to make the car stand out from other Camaros- much like the wheel flares put on the GNX to differentiate them from a regular GN.. no offense intended- it's just a personal opinion...[/QUOTE]

Vengeance is pretty commonly encountered, even outside the PT world. I ran across her well before I even knew about P-T.com

There's a method to the madness on the flares--with a stock body, '67's can't take as wide a tire under the fender as a '69 can. Even Stielow's Mayhem, which is a '67, had the bodywork stretched out a little to cover the tires.

[milkovich]

Deja vu. I wonder if the creep that stole Amir's car used to work at universal.
77055

[Tom Welch]

This seems to be more common than anyone had previously thought, some douche that works for the production company has this 'idea' for the car and since all the work is already done why not just take it and make a name for himself. I dont like it one bit, not the money part but the taking without asking part and screwing it up to boot. We work hard on our cars, the history and sweat equity is difficult if not impossible to put a value on. This does however validate the design and modifications that Amir has done to his car in a way that no one ever could.

[shmoov69]

Nothing is new under the sun....
Who was it on here that saw their car in a wheel ad, with some other wheels photoshopped on it?

People suck!! LOL!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

whos car got wheels pshopped on it?












not for nothing guys.. I aint mad at all.. it sucks an all.. but its not like im angry.

I dont want them to reverse it on me somehow.. but I just dont think people understand.


THAT CAR IS IN MY GARAGE!

how could I be butthurt?


I feel like there is a crew of trolls that work for Paramount trying to play this shet outta here or something.

[shortrack]

wonder whos car will be next?

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

probably RonS's

or Brets Hotrod..

or hell


BIG RED.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Deja vu. I wonder if the creep that stole Amir's car used to work at universal.
77055


whoa.. I remember that!

I always thought it was suspect..

they at least tried to hide it with the green..

[shortrack]

Your Camaro is on the Rock, Women and Beauty Facebook page too.....eh

So is Badass

[Martin71RS]

Amir, I think you are being pretty cool about it......
I put my opinion on my Facebook page just to show who designed the original (love the car btw)

https://www.facebook.com/#!/martin.vanweerlee?hc_location=stream

I just think it's not right when people will make big bucks by stealing someone elses work, credit where credit's due.
Martin

[novaderrik]

It doesnt matter if you like what I built derrik, does it?

what does matter is that at the end of the day one of our own basically got Chinese bootlegged by a big shot movie company and wont acknowledge it at least.




i mean..


cmon man..

what happened to rooting for the little guy?!.. isnt this America?.. home of the underdogs that made it happen?
I remember when it was about "sticking it to the man" and fighting the steel toe boot that is trying to keep the little guy down..

and I dont know whats more American than a 1967 Camaro PT/SF brawler..


now it seems like people are helping the boot push me down further..

i just gave an honest opinion.. you built a car that turned out to be well known because you put pictures of it on the internet for people to see. it's also the type of car that has the kind of crazy look that will make 5 year old kids throw a fit in the Wal Mart toy aisle until mommy agrees to buy it for them- your car will be the definition of a "cool old car" to a whole generation of impressionable kids..

but when you put the pics and info online about the car, you had to know that there's always the possibility that someone, somewhere is going to latch onto it and copy it.. and you just know that they had to have lawyers involved that told them that it was cool to do as long as they change a few things- so they jacked it up like a 4X4, used slightly different mirrors, and painted a different colored stripe in it..

if i was you, i'd be putting Decepticon logos on your car just to show anyone that asks that it isn't Bumblebee...

[MrQuick]

i just gave an honest opinion.. you built a car that turned out to be well known because you put pictures of it on the internet for people to see. it's also the type of car that has the kind of crazy look that will make 5 year old kids throw a fit in the Wal Mart toy aisle until mommy agrees to buy it for them- your car will be the definition of a "cool old car" to a whole generation of impressionable kids..

but when you put the pics and info online about the car, you had to know that there's always the possibility that someone, somewhere is going to latch onto it and copy it.. and you just know that they had to have lawyers involved that told them that it was cool to do as long as they change a few things- so they jacked it up like a 4X4, used slightly different mirrors, and painted a different colored stripe in it..

if i was you, i'd be putting Decepticon logos on your car just to show anyone that asks that it isn't Bumblebee...



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/joker_clap-1.gif

[Ron Sutton]

I started this without a doubt. I've emailed the writer of that article with all that ammo, the writer of the transfomers movie blog, see here (http://transformerslive.blogspot.com/2013/05/bumblebees-alt-mode-confirmed-for.html) and I was the one who let Mr.Vengeance know what was up. I give a care what goes on in our little pocket of the world. I've been on this site since it was an EZboard back in 98. I've watched countless famous cars get built and helped with the design of many of them in one way or another. You guys are my family. We're here because we are passionate about our hobby and we love our cars. We love other's cars. We love originality and expression. We might have differing views and goals and means, but at the end of the day we all respect each other. That's what makes this and other sites like it great. It's our home. Ours. So when I saw someone "bite" Vengeance's style, I lost it. I was there, and remember how carefully guarded information on Vengeance was while it was in the shop. He was afraid someone would "bite" his style before he got done. Knowing this, and seeing what's happened infuriates me. I want the world to know where that design came from. I want credit where it is due. And I would stay up late, fight on messageboards, email whomever I had to if I thought any one of the members here had been done wrong. It's who I am and what I do. I will always fiercely defend you all, and your right to express yourself.

"Like" (there was no button, but this was too good)

[geberhard]

Amir, as mentioned copying (blatantly) is the sincerest form of flattery. Like you said at the end of the day, you know what you built with your own hands, what it took to make what the car is today, and most of all you have the keys and car in your garage. More than 15 mins of fame indeed, but heck I would just sit back and enjoy that someone at some high level appreciated yuor design and ideas enough to immortalize it in a movie.

Kids everywhere around the world will be seeing your ride and ideas for several years to come, and that will possibly\hopefully trigger their own obsessions with bad ass rides. I remember showing pics of your ride to friends and as sinister as V looks, she triggers inspirations. It helps redefine bad ass rides, as most people do not get the fact that lots of chrome, and oh so purrrrrfect show quality paint often links the car to the trailer queen spectrum when these cars are actually meant to be driven and enjoyed.

Nothing against pretty rides, it takes all kinds an everyone, car enthusiast or, not can appreciate the effort and ideas on the ride (even when they are paying someone to do the build, but hopefully putting their ideas in the build). Of course there are several exceptions here that flog and enjoy their cars as they are meant to be and driven.

All in all, bad ass that V is making to the big screen along with all your cool ideas. Heck it may expand to so many people wanting a ride like yours and turning into something even bigger.

Gui

[rohrt]

As the old saying goes:
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

how about this?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/06/Comparison2-1.jpg

[rockytopper]

Getting copied looks like great free press to me you better get busy producing the bumble V Wheel Flares. The young Gens will be buying them for decades to come.

[oestek]

Man, I can only imagine the "Hey... that's MY friggin' CAR!" moment you had when you learned of this. Hard not to feel violated in some way.

Now tell us more about the availability of the flares...

[High Plains Mopars]

deleted, wrong topic.

[HUSTLESTUFF]

I think the biggest issue will be in royalties for the toys that are made. You may have a real legal foot to stand on. I know that if you have a Dukes Of Hazzard Charger, Warner Brothers will sue you if you use it to make financial gains. Think of the millions of little toys and the financial gain they are making off your design. Worth talking to a copyright lawyer IMHO. Mike

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/Screenshot20130827at85427AM-1.png

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/Screenshot20130827at85353AM-1.png

more.. rear shot..

hmm.. even the rear window straps.. oh well.

[High Plains Mopars]

Worth talking to a copyright lawyer IMHO.

Probably.

[Damn True]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/Screenshot20130827at85427AM-1.png

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/Screenshot20130827at85353AM-1.png

more.. rear shot..

hmm.. even the rear window straps.. oh well.

The flares are sweet.

I might buy a set if someone put them into production.

[HUSTLESTUFF]

Heck, I would talk to Hot Wheels and have them make toys of your car and start selling them now. Add a couple of yellow stickers in the package for the kids to accessorize them as they see fit. Bet you would hear from them!

[Jim Nilsen]

Wow what a story this is!!!

I look at it as reverse recognition. All of a sudden a carlike yours is famous because it was copied and they just did it. Then all of the news starts to reflect that it was stolen and then everyone finally knows your car was 1st and is now more famous than it would be if it hadn't been copied by someone who could make as big as it could ever be.

So in the end the " Vengence" Camaro will be on of the most famous car of this moment in time and so will MR TOTEM

Congratulations, you made it higher to the top than you could have ever done without them and you didn't have to hang on to their shirt tails to get there or suck up to them or even ask. How much easier could it have been?

It's confusing at first but after you look at the way it is going, it will be headline news in more than one place.


Let this be a lesson to some in marketing and those wanting to get their car out there.

You can't hide real talent as your own for very long!!!!!

[protouring70]

Hey your car is awesome

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

thanks guys..

I hear ya Jim, I know that its a good thing in many respects..

[tyler qb]

In reality what can actually be done about this? It is insane the amount of time, work, and innovation you put in your car and for it to get ripped off is a slap in the face.

Has the studio ever contacted you since this came about?
Or have you or a lawyer contacted them?
Is your car a 'company' car? Can you claim rights to the look as part of your business?


Did they offer you red carpet at the premiere and Megan Fox's phone number?
Is it worth your time to bring it up?

etc etc

[shortrack]

My car is starting to go viral too. This shot got on to Tumblr and has taken off. If you click on the link at the bottom of this page you will see this pic in the upper left. click on it, the pic will come up, then click on the "1056 notes" in the bottom left you'll see all the places its been reblogged. There is another garage shot that someone turned into black & white that is taking off too.



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/ChevelleProjectV039Large-1.jpg (http://s962.photobucket.com/user/shortrack/media/ChevelleProjectV039Large.jpg.html)



http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/nascar

[High Plains Mopars]

I look at it as reverse recognition. All of a sudden a car like yours is famous because it was copied and they just did it. Then all of the news starts to reflect that it was stolen and then everyone finally knows your car was 1st and is now more famous than it would be if it hadn't been copied by someone who could make as big as it could ever be.



Hmm, I'd like to think it works this way, but it doesn't.

Around 1976 my dad painted his '68 Road Runner bright orange Imron. It was almost electric in the sunlight, a real attention getter. A few years later, out comes the Dukes of Hazzard. Aside from the fact that they used a Dodge instead of a Plymouth, everyone though the car was painted because of the Dukes. Now the Dukes did not copy our car for sure, there was a 1000 miles between and no interweb to disemminate opinions, but it got real tiring of explaining that this was not a Charger and no, it is not copying the Duke Boys because it was done before the show.

Of course, a bright orange muscle car is hardly a unique item like Vengance or Bumble Bee. This is a whole new level of infringement.

[MrQuick]

My car is starting to go viral too. This shot got on to Tumblr and has taken off. If you click on the link at the bottom of this page you will see this pic in the upper left. click on it, the pic will come up, then click on the "1056 notes" in the bottom left you'll see all the places its been reblogged. There is another garage shot that someone turned into black & white that is taking off too.



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/ChevelleProjectV039Large-1.jpg (http://s962.photobucket.com/user/shortrack/media/ChevelleProjectV039Large.jpg.html)



http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/nascar

its gonna happen when every detail of our cars are plastered all over the net.

I say capitalize on it...start marketing parts cause we all know there will be a huge demand for it. Already is.

[Damn True]

thanks guys..

I hear ya Jim, I know that its a good thing in many respects..

This isn't an insult or an affront. It's a business opportunity staring you in the face.....and you've got a billion dollar company doing your marketing for you free of charge.

[shortrack]

its gonna happen when every detail of our cars are plastered all over the net.

I say capitalize on it...start marketing parts cause we all know there will be a huge demand for it. Already is.

Yes its gonna happen for sure. I take it as a compliment, Im glad some people get it, Im not worried about capitalizing on it.

Oh wait, I could order up a bunch of 2" offset Aero wheels and sell them on the net out of my garage as "Genuine Nascar!" for twice what I paid for them. Haha!

For the record I get asked this question a lot (Where did you get those WHEELS!?) they are the real deal but anyone can buy them from their local Stock Car parts distributor.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

This isn't an insult or an affront. It's a business opportunity staring you in the face.....and you've got a billion dollar company doing your marketing for you free of charge.


you are living up to your name..

now if only I can find a RELIABLE company to mass manufacture my flares!

[BADNBLK]

this isn't an insult or an affront. It's a business opportunity staring you in the face.....and you've got a billion dollar company doing your marketing for you free of charge.

truth!!!!

[Jim Nilsen]

you are living up to your name..

now if only I can find a RELIABLE company to mass manufacture my flares!

The best name in fiberglass is VFN. And then there is Carbon Customs carbon fiber to think about?

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

yea, I am just a bit skiddish as I want to deal with someone local-ish

[HUSTLESTUFF]

I still say the heck with the flares...limited market. Die cast cars, remote controlled cars, hot wheels. Kids will be your target market. License your cars design to the toy makers.

[Jim Nilsen]

yea, I am just a bit skiddish as I want to deal with someone local-ish

Take into account that the only thing that makes your flares desirable over other flares is that they will be the flares that are on Bumblebee. So having the ability to keep up with the quick market fluctuation you will need someone able to do it. Tough decision if you even do it at all.
This is going to be interesting and we will see how it all goes down when the movie gets things rolling.

Just go with it for now and pay close attention to what others are saying that have a clue and you just might get lucky somewhere in there even more than just recognition. But a bigger name never hurts if that is what you want.

Have fun

[Tony_SS]

Wow...first I've seen of this. Congrats Amir on a job well done. I think you have a good attitude about clearly being ripped off. I guess it goes with the territory when you're in the visual arts business, which kind of sucks.

Whats clear is that they did a down right horrible version on theirs. It looks like crap. Yours on the other hand is well proportioned, detailed, and so on. I think you deserve some major credit, and like mentioned this a great opportunity here.

You should come up with a Bumblee logo and start selling your car as a diecast.

[MrQuick]

yea, I am just a bit skiddish as I want to deal with someone local-ish

Start it up yourself. Find a few guys to work with that know fiberglass or plastic fabrication.

Too bad you aren't closer. There is a shop selling a plastic press oven that would be perfect for making flares and tubs. All you need is a good machinist with vision.

I'd throw some funds in the pot for capital.

[Ron.in.SoCal]

And your Dobie says, "whatcha doin' Dad?" lol

I've had four Vince. Best dogs ever IMO.

[garickman]

KARMA?????

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/entertainment-eonline/20131017/b471231/

[scott_fx]

I still say the heck with the flares...limited market. Die cast cars, remote controlled cars, hot wheels. Kids will be your target market. License your cars design to the toy makers.

yeah, it's all about I.P. here. your energy should be focused on that aspect of it. if you actually proved and won in court that this was your IP, i wonder if you could get a cut of all the merchandising.... the 3rd movie brought in a billion dollars at the box office. think hasboro made a few hundred million on toys

[MrQuick]

fight for royalties? Evel Knievel made his money from his toy line. Bubblebee street fighter toys and gear would be a hit. Maybe even a Mr Vengeance action figure line.

[WS6]

Damn Amir. I'm just now finding out about this. Sorry they ripped off your design and didn't even bother to ask. Considering how the F&F franchise used the real version of "famous" cars in many scenes, I'm surprised Transformers didn't bother to even try.

I would do as other have suggested about speaking with a lawyer when it comes to all the merchandising. It's at least worth a few phone calls to see about protecting yourself.

Glad you're not letting this get to you. After all, it's like you already said, the car's in your garage and you know it came first.

[TonyL]

Damn Amir. I'm just now finding out about this. Sorry they ripped off your design and didn't even bother to ask. Considering how the F&F franchise used the real version of "famous" cars in many scenes, I'm surprised Transformers didn't bother to even try.

I would do as other have suggested about speaking with a lawyer when it comes to all the merchandising. It's at least worth a few phone calls to see about protecting yourself.

Glad you're not letting this get to you. After all, it's like you already said, the car's in your garage and you know it came first.

In the fast and furious movies, they came to Steve strope and others and *asked* for permission and help to recreate the cars they wanted use though. This is different. Blatant disrespect.

[ill steez]

In all seriousness, I think it would be worth at least talking to a Copyright attorney about this. There is a strong argument that you could have protection over the appearance of Vengeance as a "compilation," and even though you never registered anything within the Copyright office, you still may be entitled to damages and profits as a result of the car.

Some notes on what I'm referring to:
Statutory Language §101 – A “compilation” is a work formed by the collection and assembling of preexisting materials or of data that are selected, coordinated, or arranged in such a way that the resulting work as a whole constitutes an original work of authorship. The term compilation includes “collective works”.
The term "compilation" is typically used to describe factual works, such as the organization of an Encyclopedia, however it can also be used to protect non-factual works. A combination of unprotectable elements may qualify for copyright protection if the elements are sufficiently numerous and their selection and arrangement is sufficiently original.

In the case of Vengeance, I would say that there is a strong argument that the combination of unprotectable elements, including the matte black paint, RS stripe, 19" wheels of the same style, along with literally every other aesthetic component can be used to to establish originality. Furthermore, the fender flares - while somewhat distinct from the ones which the Transformers car has - are likely protectable themselves.

Looking at the car Paramount assembled, it's pretty clear that they may have anticipated you seeing it ans possibly coming after them. They made a handful of changes to your design with the intention of differentiating it enough to set it apart. The flares are distinct, the mirrors appear distinct, and the yellow is absent from your car.

Either way - I definitely think it's worth pursuing. Little Vengeance toys are going to make a lot of money.

Oh one other thing - REGISTER VENGEANCE AS A COMPILATION, **STAT**
Registration is a prerequisite to filing a copyright infringement action. At the time of the infringement if the work is not registered it's okay, but you must register it within the statutory time period before bringing an action.

[Aficionado]

(null)

Not sure copyright registration is required to file suit, but it may limit some of the remedies available if it's not been done. But it's been a while since I took that class in law school....

Either way, Amir, talk to an IP lawyer.

[CamaroMike]

Thats pretty cool but I can see how it might make you a little upset

[ill steez]

Not sure copyright registration is required to file suit, but it may limit some of the remedies available if it's not been done. But it's been a while since I took that class in law school....

Either way, Amir, talk to an IP lawyer.

I'm fairly certain it is, but an attorney that specializes in Copyright would obviously know better. My specialty is patents.

[Aficionado]

Not sure copyright registration is required to file suit, but it may limit some of the remedies available if it's not been done. But it's been a while since I took that class in law school....

Either way, Amir, talk to an IP lawyer.

I'm fairly certain it is, but an attorney that specializes in Copyright would obviously know better. My specialty is patents.

Haha. You're closer than me; I'm a career prosecutor.

[Removed user as requested]

I think this whole thread is pissing in the wind. If vengeance can get royalties for a movie copying his car and file suit etc...

We would all be stuffed. People with black 68 chargers can go to court for copying someone else, general lee owners go to court copying the movie without asking holywood/designers of it to paint there own that way. I could go to court for having a black chevelle with white stripes because somebody else built one like it. People with mustang eleanors can go to court copying a movie car, people with green 68 mustangs can go to court because of bullit and and and and and you get the picture. Yeah sure, painting a car 1 way vs finer detail, but copy is copy regardless of what level it is at. If vengeance can get something over copy, we can all go and file suit.

So who built what first, we have all copied someone to a certain degree.

There is no case in this. Just cooling the mouth over nothing.

[silvermonte]

I think this whole thread is pissing in the wind. If vengeance can get royalties for a movie copying his car and file suit etc...

We would all be stuffed. People with black 68 chargers can go to court for copying someone else, general lee owners go to court copying the movie without asking holywood/designers of it to paint there own that way. I could go to court for having a black chevelle with white stripes because somebody else built one like it. People with mustang eleanors can go to court copying a movie car, people with green 68 mustangs can go to court because of bullit and and and and and you get the picture. Yeah sure, painting a car 1 way vs finer detail, but copy is copy regardless of what level it is at. If vengeance can get something over copy, we can all go and file suit.

So who built what first, we have all copied someone to a certain degree.

There is no case in this. Just cooling the mouth over nothing.

The point here is that they copied his car and are now making a profit off of that. The point that was made in a previous post is that you can paint you car like General Lee, but the second you start making money from that car the big guys come knocking.

[Removed user as requested]

1: They are making money off the movie. That car didn't make up the entire movie.

2: Many general lee owners, eleanor owners etc use there car as wedding cars. Thus making money out of the car. Also anyone that uses there car for wedding can be seen/interpreted that way.

3: The owner of vengeance never said nobody can copy his car. No copyright/patent was made for the car.

It's simply tough luck. You cant make a car then think about money patents etc after someone did something with it. They made the car like that because they thought it looked cool. They were smart enough to 'make money of it'. If the owner never thought about that before and thus never patented his design, idea, cant just try and cash in now.

That is simply bad luck.

[mc84_zz4]

Amir, I saw the movie and was excited for them using your car, and now I see this thread, and I'm thinking what some others have mentioned, but I'm not sure there is anything there.
It's not about the money, I'm with you on that.
It could even become a partnership of sorts in the future (?)
Best of luck man, I hope you get to ride the front of the wave on this, it may feel like a grind at times, but could turn into a blessing.

[mikedc]

Going up against a big Hollywood studio in court can be risky business. The sold-out corporate whores in charge of the US legal system are just about corrupt enough to rule that Amir's car is somehow violating the studio's rights.


I would start by investigating what Amir's legal rights to his own car's image actually are. Once those bases are covered, maybe try for some kind of friendly out-of-court deal with the "Transformers" producers. And be sure to mention the fact that the F&F crew credited the cars they copied in those movies. If nothing else it might get the next customizer proper credit.