Crown Victoria front suspension into 66 mustang?

[Tnfalconer]

I have a buddy that runs in the Demo derbies and buys a new model Crown Victoria every month or so. He pulls the aluminum k-member complete from the frame and installs a different setup or the derby. As a result he has a few of these laying around. I spent a little time measuring one of these the other day with interest in possibly using it in my cheap trick project mustang. Dimensions are very close. Shock towers would need to be modified and most likely the sides of the unibody sheeted and fabbed to bolt the k-member in place. Other than these things I am reasonably certain that it would fit. Now the only issue I see that nags me is it's about 4" wider than the explorer 8.8 rear that plan to use in the car. What say you?

[Tnfalconer]

I also wonder about the power steering pump requirements for this.

[andrewb70]

Given enough fabrication skills and tools, anything is possible. I would have thought that the Crown Vics have a much wider front track than the Mustangs...Is this not the case?

Andrew

[Tnfalconer]

It is about 4" wider, WMS to WMS. Using an 8.8 rear under the car will make it a little closer. Everyone says the same line "with a welder and a torch anything will work".....I am guessing I am the only one that has actually looked at one. I would think someone had tried it at this point.

[Blue Oval Man]

There have been a lot of these suspensions put into 67 - 79 Ford pickups, some older ones too. They fit these trucks perfectly but are still on the wide side even for a pickup. I haven't looked, but I would think it would be to wide for the mustang. If I get some time I will have a quick look under my 69 F100 and 68 Mustang, they are parked next to each other so shouldn't be too hard.
David.

[Tnfalconer]

I have been measuring everything I can measure for two days. The outside dimensions on both are 34". The inside dimension of the K-member is roughly 341/4-341/2". They are literally the same. The frame height on the ford truck is taller than the mustang unibody channel at the point where they would meet. I can find nothing there on the top that would be load bearing of need to connect with the exception of the brackets that are a bolt on to the shock towers. These could easily be fabbed to fit.

[Tnfalconer]

Here is a link to a pic of the unit I am talking about.

http://www.myspace.com/dctautomechanics/photos/17639943#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A17639943%7D

[dontlifttoshift]

Hub to Hub is 62" on the crown vic front end....approximately. Fender to Fender on a 66 mustang is just under 68". Unless you widen the car for tire clearance it won't work. 8" wheels with 6" backspace plus the caliper clearance will prove ugly if not impossible.

[andrewb70]

Hub to Hub is 62" on the crown vic front end....approximately. Fender to Fender on a 66 mustang is just under 68". Unless you widen the car for tire clearance it won't work. 8" wheels with 6" backspace plus the caliper clearance will prove ugly if not impossible.

Giant fender flares?

Andrew

[Greg55_99]

For my project, I'd also thought of using the Crown Vic IFS. It's got a lot going for it. Good suspension geometry, easy to aquire and CHEAP. BUT, it's too wide. Way to wide. There are guys that have really good welding skills that have narrowed them, but I don't have that kind of talent. I also don't know what power rack would be used after the cross member is narrowed. But, if you can pull it off, let me know.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=683419

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=770873

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=769913

http://m.ford-trucks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1089983

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=448027

Greg

[TurboBu]

I narrowed one of these 6.125" which is the difference in width between the cv and a 79 and newer mustang rack at the inner tierod pivots. It was a lot of welding and trial fitting I the rack but well worth the effort IMO. you get modren light weight sturdy suspension with 12" 4 piston brakes.

[andrewb70]

I narrowed one of these 6.125" which is the difference in width between the cv and a 79 and newer mustang rack at the inner tierod pivots. It was a lot of welding and trial fitting I the rack but well worth the effort IMO. you get modren light weight sturdy suspension with 12" 4 piston brakes.

Doesn't narrowing the front suspension, without any other changes, alter the suspension geometry?

Andrew

[Black Rock Fab]

Doesn't narrowing the front suspension, without any other changes, alter the suspension geometry?

Andrew

in short . . yep. even moving the factory rack messes with things. I have been learning alot with these types of adjustments.

[ace_xp2]

Narrowing the front suspension will alter the front suspension geometry, but I'm not sure it'd be a bad thing. You should end up with the same Instant Center but further out by whatever distance you've shortened it, and the contact patch would move equally in so it should net a lower roll center, whether that's bad or good depends on its original position.
I'm not sure what shortening would do to roll center migration, but I don't see any real reason to think of it as horrible, IC migration would be the same, and at first glance I think you'd likely see a decrease in RC migration.
Do you have more data on this front end? Kingpin inclination, spindle height, upper and lower arm length, distance from lower balljoint to spindle, etc.

[TurboBu]

I'm just a welder. here's all I can tell you: I narrowed it 6.125" which is the difference at the pivots between the Mustang rack and the CV rack. The pivots are very very close to the stock CV location. The rack mounts are offset different and one of the rack holes is very close and the other I had to add material to the crossmember to mount the rack. the A-arms are level at ride height and it is on Air shocks from Air Lift. This is a cruiser not a racer. 59 F100 sets about 7" ground to rocker. I used semi truck leveling valves at each corner with built in dump valves. There's no air transfered side to side or front to back and 2 positions ride height and dumped. The rear suspension is 95 Lincoln Mark VIII, I used 1 the front 12" rotors and 4 piston calipers at all 4 corners and Wilwood balance bar pedal with 7/8 front 1" rear I think plus a proportioning valve. I should have it at some of the Goodguys events later in the year.

[Ron Sutton]

Hub to Hub is 62" on the crown vic front end....approximately. Fender to Fender on a 66 mustang is just under 68". Unless you widen the car for tire clearance it won't work. 8" wheels with 6" backspace plus the caliper clearance will prove ugly if not impossible.

Hi Guys,

I was reading Donny's post ... and while 8" wheels with 6" backspace is not the norm ... that should work. It would create a nice small scrub radius. Sounds like it would have just enough tire clearance.

Because the 1-piece rotor on this application has a big "hat" (step) ... the brake calipers do not get too close to the wheel. There are several places that will build that wheel. I have two sets "similar" ... 18x10 with 8" backspacing & 18x12 with 10" backspacing ... the common denominator being the backspacing leaves a 2" "outer".

I may have missed something that prevents it from working & I apologize in advance if I did. What are the reasons it won't work?

[dontlifttoshift]

You didn't miss anything. You brought up a good point about the caliper clearance, so that will help the cause. My point was that the wheels would not be aesthetically pleasing and would be hard to find for his application.

[Ron Sutton]

You didn't miss anything. You brought up a good point about the caliper clearance, so that will help the cause. My point was that the wheels would not be aesthetically pleasing and would be hard to find for his application.

I get that.

For looks, I also prefer a small lip on the front wheels & a deeper dish (lip) on the rear wheels.

For handling, I prefer to get the scrub radius down to zero or close to it, which requires the face of the wheel to be moved out close to flush, kind of like the SCCA GT1/Pro Trans Am cars were. For me, handling always ends up winning.

Here is a photo of my "Street tires & wheels" from American Racing. I think they look ok. What do you think?


78061


Left: 18x10" AR "Burnout" VN472 Wheel with 8" backspacing. Tires are Nitto NT555 285/35ZR18
Right: 20x12 AR "Burnout" VN472 Wheel with 4" backspacing. Tires are M/T S/R 29X15.00R20 = 365/30/20
* For Autocross & Track Driving these come off & "front & rear matching size" tires & wheels go on.

[48prerunner]

I get that.

For looks, I also prefer a small lip on the front wheels & a deeper dish (lip) on the rear wheels.

For handling, I prefer to get the scrub radius down to zero or close to it, which requires the face of the wheel to be moved out close to flush, kind of like the SCCA GT1/Pro Trans Am cars were. For me, handling always ends up winning.

Here is a photo of my "Street tires & wheels" from American Racing. I think they look ok. What do you think?


78061


Left: 18x10" AR "Burnout" VN472 Wheel with 8" backspacing. Tires are Nitto NT555 285/35ZR18
Right: 20x12 AR "Burnout" VN472 Wheel with 4" backspacing. Tires are M/T S/R 29X15.00R20 = 365/30/20
* For Autocross & Track Driving these come off & "front & rear matching size" tires & wheels go on.

There were wheels in that pic?

I'm running a crown vic front in my 69 f-100 I have 2008 California special 18 stock five spokes front and rear In the rear I have a 73 f-100 9" . The track width of the front and rear are within an 1/8 of each other 245 50 front 255 55 rear. Don't know if that will help. I also had an explorer rear I was going to use but was too narrow to match front without a different off set. If you run the Mustang five spokes on the crown vic, you need and 1/8" spacer for caliper clearance. If you want i can measure the track width slips my mind right now.

[andrewb70]

Back from the dead...Did anyone ever do this swap?

Andrew

[MonzaRacer]

There were wheels in that pic?

I'm running a crown vic front in my 69 f-100 I have 2008 California special 18 stock five spokes front and rear In the rear I have a 73 f-100 9" . The track width of the front and rear are within an 1/8 of each other 245 50 front 255 55 rear. Don't know if that will help. I also had an explorer rear I was going to use but was too narrow to match front without a different off set. If you run the Mustang five spokes on the crown vic, you need and 1/8" spacer for caliper clearance. If you want i can measure the track width slips my mind right now.

Beat me too it!