View Full Version : What was it to originaly?
Im sure this has been asked a thousand times but I was wondering what my 69 was when she rolled off the line. I tried doing a search but any time you use the word "original" it brings in 300+ results.
I have gone thru the usual stuff looking at VIN and trim tags. I know from my VIN starting with 1243 that it was a V8 car but it was built in April of 69 in CA and I understand that early 69 in california no "X" type codes were used for any cars built.
Anyone know who to call or email? Other than the Customer Assistance Center at 800.222.1020. I understand they can give you a history report but cannot tell you the options on the car. I imagine that means they cannot tell if it was an SS etc. Not that it matters too much because I have built it PT style but I still find myself curious about its origins.
Thanks!
Update
I called the 800 number and Gary at Chevrolet says that it does include the type. I said, "now you are sure it will tell me if it is an SS or Z etc" and he said yes it does. But according to this site http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#InfoSources it will not.
Btw, if anyone is interested in learing about their car the "packet" they are sending me is absolutely free. He took my VIN number down and my address to mail it all to me.
MuscleRodz
08-17-2005, 06:14 PM
Go to Camaros.net and post up in the tag team section. Lots of good help in there.
Mike
Bill Howell
08-17-2005, 07:01 PM
We can decode the trim tag here too. I got my 69 camaro bible...
We can decode the trim tag here too. I got my 69 camaro bible...
Hello Bill, I have decoded the trim tag to find out that it was built in April 1969 and in CA and is 10 10 code, which is black on black. What I have not been able to find out is what model it is. I was told that in the early months of production in CA they had not started using the "X" type codes on the trim tag to designate model.
Are you able to look it up by VIN or any other way?
If so sweet, tell me what you need. :)
YoungGun
08-18-2005, 04:07 PM
Okay I am by far an amatuer with this stuff, but depending on what stage your car is in, and how many original parts are on it. I believe the sometimes stamped the Xcode behind the rear seat on the metal.
Also, if you have the original rearend...12 or 10 bolt? They stamp codes on the rearends and other places that might help you close in on what car yours is.
Thats all I can add, but give us all the info you have an Ill see what I can look up.
Tim
Its a 10 bolt rear with no posi, who knows if it is original or not. What kinda info would be of help?
YoungGun
08-18-2005, 05:14 PM
Here is PDF file link that has a bunch of codes from various things. Like I said I dont know much, but maybe this will help. You can also decode the stuff off the rearend to see if its original, you can check the engine if you have it. I dont want to say too much though, I dont know this stuff.
Anyway, here is a link, hope it works
http://www.camaros.org/rpo23feb00.pdf
EDIT: Thats probably more for the buildsheet...hmm give me a minute
EDIT2: This might help more.
http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#RearAxleNumbers
Tim
nancejd
08-18-2005, 05:29 PM
Isn't a partial VIN stamped on the original rearend?
Bill Howell
08-18-2005, 08:28 PM
Hello Bill, I have decoded the trim tag to find out that it was built in April 1969 and in CA and is 10 10 code, which is black on black. What I have not been able to find out is what model it is. I was told that in the early months of production in CA they had not started using the "X" type codes on the trim tag to designate model.
Are you able to look it up by VIN or any other way?
If so sweet, tell me what you need. :)
Actually, they did not use X codes in both Ca and Norwood on the early production cars. No, I do not have a majic book. just the regular decode stuff. One thing, 10 10 meant top and bottom black. If it had a vinyl top it would be 10 a or 10b. for white top or black top. All others had the two same numbers. Strange way of doing things, but whatever. If it was a real early car, like the one I had, it may even of had some 68 stuff. My car was # 5057007 which was built about the 6th week of production. It was a 396/325 car. Still had original motor, tranny, rear and all. It was an SS but no X stuff. It even had a 68 spoiler. Now some will argue that no 69s came with a rear antenue and rear spoiler, but I have the original quarter with the factory antenue cut out and it had a 68 spoiler on rear. Everything else was right about the car, so I have no reason to doubt that is how the car came. It is neat to do a bit of digging and see that even with all the 69's built, everyone is alittle different. Good Luck and Happy Hunting.
ProdigyCustoms
08-19-2005, 03:01 AM
Ok, here we go. For years, I was the guy at US Camaro you called or wrote with this question. For years I cracked codes, dates / VIN correlation, nuances and unique things on various models. I avoid these subjects now because I am so over the "original restored" part of this hobby. But here is my official answer.
All 68s. all LOS built 69s and early NOR built 69s under 560000 sequential number, have no information on the trim tags to tell what the car was born, or could have been born. The X behind the seat is a new one to me, but surely a myth. No, there is no VIN or partial VIN on the rear, only a cast date and assembly date and code. So once the original engine or transmission (if it was a 4 speed) which were VIN stamped are gone, it becomes a nothing car.
NOW! With all that said, it seems that many are always on the endless pursuit to find out if it was a COPO, Z28, SS, etc, even though once the heart of any of those, the engine, is gone, it is no longer anyway.
There are things you could look for, I am not in the mood to list all the things, nor do I remember or care anymore because as I said, it really does not matter, but..........
If it has a dated 12 bolt and disc brakes, it COULD be a COPO, Z28, SS, 255HP. Now if the rear end code is BE, It COULD be a COPO, although COPOs were available wih other rears to, 99% have BE 4.10s. Now if the rear end code is BU, It COULD be a Z28, most Z28s had 3.73 BU rears, but were available wih other rears to, 80% have BU 3.73s.
If it has only one 3/8 fuel line from front to back with small block routing, it COULD be a Z28, or a 307 or 327 2 barrel because neither of these had return lines.
There are other things like speedo cable routing, tach redline, and other things to look for, but again I must stress. Once the original motor is gone, it is a gelding. It may be a man, but not much of one any more!
Also, GM has no original information on cars. We have been in the bowels of GM hunting ourselves for accounting records, build orders, dealer dispatch list, anything at all to verify what these cars were when born. We basically had someone at GM tell us (off the record, so I will post it on the Internet, LOL!), that if they found the stuff, they would probably throw it away as they really do not want to get involved in all the phone calls and lawsuits that would surely follow the announcement of the archives.
So there you have the short answer, Now cut that thing up and Pro Tour it already!
Actually, they did not use X codes in both Ca and Norwood on the early production cars. No, I do not have a majic book. just the regular decode stuff. One thing, 10 10 meant top and bottom black. If it had a vinyl top it would be 10 a or 10b. for white top or black top. All others had the two same numbers. Strange way of doing things, but whatever. If it was a real early car, like the one I had, it may even of had some 68 stuff. My car was # 5057007 which was built about the 6th week of production. It was a 396/325 car. Still had original motor, tranny, rear and all. It was an SS but no X stuff. It even had a 68 spoiler. Now some will argue that no 69s came with a rear antenue and rear spoiler, but I have the original quarter with the factory antenue cut out and it had a 68 spoiler on rear. Everything else was right about the car, so I have no reason to doubt that is how the car came. It is neat to do a bit of digging and see that even with all the 69's built, everyone is alittle different. Good Luck and Happy Hunting.
Its funny you say that. It has 68 seats in it and when I bought it from the guy who has had it for the last 10 years he says thats how he got it and the guy before him. They might be original seats.
So there you have the short answer, Now cut that thing up and Pro Tour it already!
I appreciate the time you spent on that answer.
I have been working on PT her for the last 2 years, its just been really slow with my budget.
Heres a short list of what I have done to her.
Hotchkis springs,KYB shocks, lowered 2", Bendix rotors, Hooker L/T's, Flowmaster Delta 40's, 17" TT II's, Demon 725 carb, K&N filter, Weiand 144 supercharger, Proform electric fan, 170* stat, muncie M22, MSD probillet dist, MSD 6AL, MSD Blaster 2 coil.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=584060)
Before
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=584067)
After, I also changed the old calpiers you see in that pic moments later.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=584072)
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