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View Full Version : A/C and other Pulleys with Procharger?



KrisHorton
09-06-2004, 01:21 AM
I'm planning on using a Procharger system on my Chevelle and am getting to the point of ordering it, but still need to clear up some small details.

I am using a Vintage Air system (universal Super Cooler) and was wondering what issues I may run into with it and what kind of workarounds are readily available.

I would also like to know what kind of pulleys I should be getting. I am using Billet Specialties for my needs, but would like a quick rundown of what I will need to have or have modified to work with the Procharger. The system is an Intercooled D-1SC and it is going on a Big Block Chevy (454 block.)

I know this is all pretty basic stuff, but I am going cross-eyed with all the fun little stuff I still need to take care of before SEMA that any help would be appreciated immensely!

Thanks in advance,

Kris

camcojb
09-06-2004, 07:13 AM
Here's the brackets ProCharger offers. Unfortunately your compressor and billet brackets won't be used. This is the only way I've seen to do this other than completely fabbing up your own setup.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2004/09/zl1motor8-1.jpg

Jody

KrisHorton
09-06-2004, 09:14 AM
Thanks for the speedy reply Jody,

I'm not bent on using the billet brackets. I just wanted to be sure I could run A/C on the car without any problems. If Procharger has all the brackets, even better.
I spoke with my contact there, Cary, and he said A/C will not be a problem, but I would have to use a different style compressor.

Kris

camcojb
09-06-2004, 10:34 AM
Correct. Their brackets are setup for the R4 style compressor, as they place it in front of the head and it's much shorter than the Sanden compressor VA uses. Works great, air blew very cold so it's no biggie and much easier than making your own setup.

My thoughts were though if I had time (yeah right!) to extend the bracket further over to the passenger side and hang the Sanden compressor off to the passenger side outside the valve cover. Plenty of room to do that, just have to make a new 1/2" aluminum plate with the extra material. Not sure why ProCharger doesn't do that as most guys have the Sanden style compressor anyway.

By the way, avoid the belt shown in the pic. Try to find the solid v-belt without the cutout sections on the back side. The cutout type don't like being bent backwards where the tensioner is between the alternator and compressor. They will last a while, but the solid belts last longer.



Jody

Blown353
09-06-2004, 02:33 PM
The ATI brackets suck, both the power steering and A/C brackets. I have greanded a few belts. I don't know what ATI was thinking but you DO NOT tension a V-belt with a backside idler, as Jody's pic shows. V-belts and their thick cross sections were not meant to bend "backwards" as a thin-section serpentine belt can.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing physically wrong with the brackets; the final installed products are very stiff and stable. It's just they chose a piss-poor method of belt tensioning.

As Jody said the backside idlers are are VERY HARD on the "cogged" belts like in his picture, I had one fail in under 200 miles, the little inside teeth just started shedding.

Solid section V-belts last the longest, but their lifetime is still short compared to a properly designed bracket which tensions the V-belt without a backside idler.

I am "fixing" my ATI power steering bracket (which also uses an idler) by junking it and going to a CV products setup that pivots the whole pump for tensioning.

As far as fixing the A/C and alternator bracket, ATI's design is the same for their big block setup (in Jody's pic) and their small block setup (what I run.) My plan for the A/C and alternator bracket is to hack off the bracket's provision for the bottom alternator bolt and install a turnbuckle there so I can do away with the idler pulley and "pivot" the alternator for belt tensioning purposes.

ATI's brackets will work, just run solid v-belts and check them FREQUENTLY. It would also be in your best interest to carry spares and tools to change them on the road!

Get rid of those crappy backside idlers and the belts should live a long and happy life.

Kris, another thing, you may want to consider sending off the blower bracket to Scott @ SD Concept Engineering to have it machined and fitted with a GM Spring-style tensioner. It's easier on the blower bearings and less likely to slip than the Procharger "static tensioner" which you set and forget. Jody has SD's spring tensioner mod on the bracket in the picture he posted, and I run one too. Zero problems with belt slippage.

Troy

KrisHorton
09-08-2004, 10:06 AM
A few more questions...

Are there any special considerations to be made for ignition and exhaust? I'm ordering all of my ignition components this week and would like to know of any possible problems. I am going with MSD for all my parts. I also want to know if there is any specific header size that I need to consider. Right now I just have a set of Patriot BB headers.

Kris

Shayc5
09-09-2004, 06:17 PM
Hey Troy, Let me know when you get your turnbuckle setup done I would like to see some pics of it. I have also broke a cogged belt with this setup. I can spin the pulley on my alt. now because there is no way to get any tension on the backside idler to get the belt tight enough.

Jody, How did you go about getting leverage on the idler to get the belt tight. SC

camcojb
09-09-2004, 07:26 PM
Jody, How did you go about getting leverage on the idler to get the belt tight. SC


A well-padded pry bar between the A/C unit and the pulley itself. Got good enough at it that I could hold it in place and tighten the bolt/nut that held the tensioner pulley in place.

Jody

Blown353
09-11-2004, 08:36 PM
I've always done Jody's method, a well-placed and padded prybar.

The other (easier) way to get tension on the idler for the A/C and alternator is to drill and tap the bracket for a 1/4 bolt that can push on the bolt for the idler pulley, basically drill/tap so the bolt pushes into the slot for the idler pulley and against the idler pulley's bolt. Loosen the idler, run the tensioning bolt down and then snug the idler and remove the tensioning bolt.

I had my alternator and A/C bracket back on the motor today (needed to see where the A/C compressor sits to fab my new blower pipes) and converting the alternator to swivel will be more difficult than I thought. I'm going to have to make an extension or adapter to bolt the turnbuckle to the rest of the ATI bracket. It WILL happen though, even if I have to design an entirely new plate.

camcojb
09-11-2004, 09:04 PM
That's a guarantee, Troy (blown353) is quite good at fabbing and engineering things! Your piping looks good Troy, I'll see you tomorrow.

Jody

67 caprice
09-15-2004, 03:59 PM
The best belt that I have used is a Dayco, it is the cheapest and lasts the longest. NAPA life time belts are good for 200 miles or so then disintegrate, and disappear. So you can’t use the warranty. Regardless of what belt that you use, carry extra belts, and tools with this set up.
I'm changing over to a serpentine belt. I have ordered custom pulleys and I 'm fabricating brackets, and will post results when finished.

bonesfab
10-26-2004, 02:47 PM
you could always just make one. try power steering, alternator, a/c, and a vortech y-s trim on an early 392 hemi. fun, fun. :naughty:

JamesJ
11-08-2004, 08:01 PM
Gates (sp) has belts that are made to be bent backwards, they are green and we use one on a Hemi in an old ford.

Blown353
11-08-2004, 09:27 PM
Gates (sp) has belts that are made to be bent backwards, they are green and we use one on a Hemi in an old ford.

Really? Have any info? When I first started having "belt issues" last year I talked to the Gates rep for my local area and his only suggestion was "re-make the brackets to get rid of the idler." He didn't mention anything about the belts you describe.

I'm poking around on Gates website and found this:

PowerRated® Belt Drives
PoweRated belts are ideal for clutching drives and backside idlers because of the bareback band ply. They provide more horsepower than conventional light-duty belts and resist temperature extremes, high humidity and oil. The aramid fiber tensile cords provide superior shock load capability on applications from riding mowers to snow blowers to shop equipment. Look for the distinctive green cover!

Look here: http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=2277&location_id=2743

That may be a solution to the problem. I think I'll try finding a set, even though that green color will be butt-ugly! They also say "for light duty use" which is kind of worrying. They say up to 17hp, and if you're not running a mechanical fan that may prove adequate.

I'm working on a solution for my car right now-- I'm fabbing spacers to correct the offset so I can use off the shelf crank and waterpump pulleys from March for a Poly-V setup. A/C pulley and alternator pulley will be strictly off the shelf pieces for a 6-rib Poly-V belt. The ATI static tensioner will work just great with this setup. It's the easiest/cleanest solution to the problem IMO.

Troy

SSMOORE
11-16-2004, 11:13 AM
I was considering the procharger for my bb aswell and was wondering about the brackets. Can the ati setup be made to work with a power sterring pump aswell as the ac?

steve

camcojb
11-16-2004, 12:35 PM
I was considering the procharger for my bb aswell and was wondering about the brackets. Can the ati setup be made to work with a power sterring pump aswell as the ac?

steve

Yes, I had ps on the engine pictured above.

Jody