Building a Pro-touring Car (Not rich)

[badazz81z28]

Gents,

For those of you without DEEP pockets, may I ask how you paid to build your ride? I'm thinking about going all out on my car for the ultimate modern/classic. This would include the DSE subframe/quadra-link, LS7, Vintage air...etc etc....Essentially upwards of $50,000+

Do you do this over many years of saving buying piece by piece or some sort of loan?

V/R

[CamaroAJ]

Look for deals on parts you'll need and do as much as you can yourself. Ive been working on mine for almost 3 years and started out by selling a C5 Z06 I had to fund a good chunk of the project.

[Rhino]

Just like Johnny Cash, one piece at a time:) I couldn't possibly understand taking out a loan on a hobby.

[badazz81z28]

Basically piece by piece is how I have been doing it, but when it comes to the big ticket items like the DSE sub-frame (That's a $10K "ouch") and Forgeline ($5K), I just don't know how I'm going to do it.

[keithq69]

Make sure you sort out how before you get in over your head.
Lots of guys get started and never finish, they end up selling the unfinished project at a loss.

I would suggest buying a running car, make changes slowly that don't take the car off the road. When all the mechanical stuff is done then take it apart and paint it.
No shame in driving a car for a few years with a rattle can paint job.
It beats having it in the garage

[GeoffP]

Take your time. Don't be afraid to cut your project list short and redo stuff later when you can afford better. In my case, I stared with an LT1 and T56 because that's what I could afford. I beat on that combo for 3-4 years then swapped out to an LS1 last year because the price was right after doing a LOT of deal shopping. I knew I wanted an LS when I built the LT but just couldn't afford it. So rather than have the car sit for 2-3 years, I went this route and got to enjoy the car rather than have it sit. Now this year, I've pulled out all the OE suspension and replaced it with RideTech and new wheels. My plans for the next couple of years is to get what I did this year paid off as quickly as possible and then it'll be time to visit mini-tubs, new rear axle and possibly Rushforth or Forgeline wheels.

My best suggestion is get it where you can enjoy it and try to only have it apart during the off season. You will stay more motivated to work on it while it's apart and you will enjoy it more over a longer period of time!

[srh3trinity]

I am a careful shopper. I agonize over each deal and part. I have an ls3 block that is getting stroked, a Ridetech rear setup and SA coilovers with a Scott Mock subframe that I have bought piece by piece. That has taken about two years to get those parts together. I just came up with a parts list and spend time on ebay, CL and forums for deals. What I save in money, I spend in time.

[Todd in Vancouver]

All the above are good info and great comments. Be VERY mindful of scope creep as you can very quickly get side tracked and end up way over your head. I try and catch myself when it happens like when you think 450hp would be really great but then start looking at 600+HP LS engines and the budget goes out the window. Or you want a little bigger tire and end up shortening your diff and tubbing the back half of your car and then need to mortgage your house to buy rims and tires to fill up the back of your car.

I think you have done an awesome job getting your LS in so now go enjoy your car. I've always made it my goal to have at least 1/2 the money down on a want/need for my car before I use my CC to order a part. For me the build is very enjoyable so I'm OK with it taking a few years before it hits the road. Just enjoy the journey, or the driving or whatever floats your boat. :cheers:

[SparkyRnD]

i always recommend skipping the loan as I don't like debt. There are two sides though: you do a loan, and you can build the car much faster if you don't have the funds of your own stashed away. The downside is you have a loan with interest, and it takes longer and more money to pay off.

Or, no loan, and you pay as you go. It takes longer, but no debt and you own what you have, free and clear. I also think you can be very creative with what you spend your money on, as you can build a car for much less if you either sacrifice a few high-end goodies, or if you don't upgrade everything at once. For example, spend your money on safety issues like brakes, suspension, etc., and see how other people have gotten great performance from quality, less-expensive options. You don't have to build a 100k car to have fun and be competitive.

[68lovebuzz]

This has been a huge hurtle for me as well. I have had my car off the road for 7 years while life has kept me busy with school and work. I have learned alot about his how much these projects take. Especially when you can't weld or do bodywork or have a big garage with every tool you need. I am now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. My car should be done by may. I'm definitely in debt but I figure If I don't go into debt getting my car done now, I will have to wait until after I have kids, get married and who knows when.... I re-financed my house before the market tanked, took out a personal simple interest loan from my bank for 7k, gone into about 5k off cc debt (did a 0% interest transfer for 28mo), sold and traded items, borrowed tools, have had some awesome friends and family help with sweat equity. In the end the low interest debt will be worth it. My credit has been slightly affected but I'm ok with it. I want this thing so bad I can taste it! Everyone here has given great advise. Enjoy your LS engine. I haven't fired mine but oh so close. Cheers!

[68lovebuzz]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention my daily driver was stolen so when the insurance company totaled it based on too many parts taken off of it, I bought the car back for 1500, fixed it, and they cut me a check for 4000 because the car was worth 6500. Still driving the DD to this day some five years later. I took that money and bought all sorts of camaro goodies including my TKO 600 kit.... Yup, it's been quite interesting financing this dream.

[Barrrf]

Ok, Im in the same boat, sort of. While I could build my car exactly the way I want it right now, it might end in a divorce and my kids would be wondering how theyre going to pay college. So Im doing it bit by bit.

In order to keep my wife off my back I use every excuse I can to buy a part - birthday, fathers day, xmas, ect. I never use the CC if I cant pay it right away. And I avoid buy brand new, best-of, parts whenever I can.

Theres always LOTs of stuff for sale in the For Sale section here. You can even buy China stuff off of ebay and mod it a bit for your needs, if youre comfortable enough with it (I always recommend buying parts from US based companies for support purposes and quality reasons). An LS 5.3 can be had at a junk yard in running condition for $500 or less. Ect ect ect.

If you dont have to have the best of the best, then you can build a sweet PT cat that everyone would be jealous of.

[SRD art]

I think a good majority of us here are in the same boat. I did a frame off build last spring-fall but ran out of time and funds to do everything I wanted so I'm doing mine in stages.

I really wanted an LS motor but settled for now with a sturdy 406 SBC I already had.

I have a 9" but I have to wait to get it narrowed.

I wanted cool spendy rtims that folks will look at and go "Nice rims!" but I settled for 17x9.5s that cost $150 each because they roll just as well as $2,000 rims.

I wanted to do a trick interior but have started refurbishing the stock parts for now. Etc.

As time rolls on and more $ comes my way I'll upgrade in order of priority. As for now, my car isn't a beauty pageant queen, but it handles and brakes well which is what the ultimate goal is anyway. The real beauty is I drive it every day and step by step will get to the next stage.

There's nothing wrong with a stock subframe and leaf springs to get you on the road. It may not be equal to DSE studff, but it's pretty cheap for now, like free. It would be a whole lot cheaper to buy the DSE suspension parts, bolt them on the stock frame, and then when you've saved enough pennies and donated enough plasma you can upgrade. Then you also get the advantage of seeing how much of a difference the frame actually made, or did it make a difference at all.

The Jones' may have all the toys but behind closed doors they're sweating bullets trying to figure out how to save anything as they live paycheck to paycheck. Really needing to keep up with the Jones' is a falsehood and a great way to screw yourself over.

[MarkM66]

Personally, I wouldn't even start a project unless I had the disposable income, and then some, to finish it.

A project isn't worth much, and I don't like having a bunch of money in something that isn't worth much. :)

[rickpaw]

Personally, I don't want to go into debt for a hobby. I saved as much as I can, do most of the work, buy used. I'm eyeing the DSE suspension for my 68 Mustang, but I don't have $10,000 to spend right now, so I just have to save it up. Main key for me is set a goal/direction for the car, and stick with it.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

I always subscribed to the saying

"Life ain't guaranteed, and no matter how much money you can't buy an hour back."



take that as you see fit.

[cornfedbill]

Wow, this is a hot topic. It seems there is general agreement that a loan is a bad thing for a hobby. I thoroughly agree.

I do a lot of shopping and research before I spend. I have tried to keep the scope reasonable to avoid getting stuck half way. I have also had to sacrifice other things that I wanted and to focus my priorities to make sure I don't overspend somewhere else.

I have a lot of circle track parts on my ride instead of the more flashy pro-touring label stuff. I will run a modified stock sub-frame and leaf springs to avoid big ticket items. My front brakes are of the Pozzi Cheap Big Brake style with '74 C10 big bore calipers. All low budget, but good performance.

I also did a lot of horse trading and bartering to get parts without cash. I got my block bored and decked for an old set of injectors I did not need for this project. Use Craigslist, Racingjunk and Ebay. It helped me save a lot of money.

With a family this has been a long process. But patience wins out in the end.

[BuddyP]

Gents,

For those of you without DEEP pockets, may I ask how you paid to build your ride? I'm thinking about going all out on my car for the ultimate modern/classic. This would include the DSE subframe/quadra-link, LS7, Vintage air...etc etc....Essentially upwards of $50,000+

Do you do this over many years of saving buying piece by piece or some sort of loan?

V/R

For us without deep pockets... it turns into many, many years. I'm going on year 10. Hoping to have it on the road this summer. A lot of this time was scoping out deals and new or good part takeoffs that someone was selling because of upgrading or going another direction.

I'm not fully for taking a loan out on a hobbie but will all depend on how you budget your financials. However now that I am on the last leg of my car build journey I am strongly considering it for the final few pieces of the puzzle.

I could've saved a LOT of money if I would have stuck with stock tubs and drop leafs alone. Also a carb motor would be a whole lot cheaper (and easier to install) than a fuelie and you can get the same power out of em.

[badazz81z28]

Thanks for the inputs! My rationale was that it was no different than an auto loan. Right now I only have 1 car payment and was thinking of getting a new Vette, but I just HATE having the same production mold car as the next guy. I want something not as common as the new mustang or camaro. Right now, I really don't see my car as a "hobby", its basically my DD.

New cars are just ridiculous in price. I keep imagining what $50K would do to my car vs buying a plastic 2012 Camaro.

[71RS/SS396]

Thanks for the inputs! My rationale was that it was no different than an auto loan. Right now I only have 1 car payment and was thinking of getting a new Vette, but I just HATE having the same production mold car as the next guy. I want something not as common as the new mustang or camaro. Right now, I really don't see my car as a "hobby", its basically my DD.

New cars are just ridiculous in price. I keep imagining what $50K would do to my car vs buying a plastic 2012 Camaro.

You've already done some upgrades to the suspension, brakes, and drivetrain right? I would suggest that you spend your time and money on honing your driving skills and when your driving skills exceed the performance of your car then worry about updating the car. You will get more performance increase out of a driving school and seat time then you will from parts.

[srh3trinity]

I have always been taught to pay cash for toys. Even if it was a DD, I would have a hard time taking out a loan to fund a build. I am building an off year car that isn't very desirable for the masses. I realize that if and when I sell it, I won't be getting my money back out of it because of that reason. If I were building a first gen car, I wouldn't sweat the investment as much since they do bring the money on re-sale. A late second gen car like you have with an LS7 and a DSE subframe may have 20K in parts, but how many of them do you see bringing north of 20K on the re-sale market? I would think about that before you took out a loan and paid 20K PLUS interest. I dig all second gen Camaros and 'Birds, but it would be a niche car with a limited audience with high end parts.

[badazz81z28]

I have always been taught to pay cash for toys. Even if it was a DD, I would have a hard time taking out a loan to fund a build. I am building an off year car that isn't very desirable for the masses. I realize that if and when I sell it, I won't be getting my money back out of it because of that reason. If I were building a first gen car, I wouldn't sweat the investment as much since they do bring the money on re-sale. A late second gen car like you have with an LS7 and a DSE subframe may have 20K in parts, but how many of them do you see bringing north of 20K on the re-sale market? I would think about that before you took out a loan and paid 20K PLUS interest. I dig all second gen Camaros and 'Birds, but it would be a niche car with a limited audience with high end parts.

Solid points on the re-sell market. Even though I say now "I will never sell" you never really do know that. Basically I'm comparing it to buying a new car...My wife told me, its either the C7 or the Camaro... in the future I will have lost value in both directions.

[badazz81z28]

Did I mention...I would like to attend OUSCI....while I'm still young.

[SRD art]

I just looked at your build thread, nice stuff already! I would go drive the snot out of it as it is, I think 71RS' advice is right on, when you've exceeded the car with your driving skills then upgrade.

BTW, ever notice that cars that don't have tons of power also do well in autocross situations? It's not about power but more so driving skills, at least that's what everyone tells me. :)

[srh3trinity]

Did I mention...I would like to attend OUSCI....while I'm still young.
You always have to consider your goals with making decisions. It may be worth it to you to go all out and build the car you want. My goals are different, I want to have a cool car, but it is more important to me to have financial security. So, my thoughts are coming from that mindset.

[TheJDMan]

I agree with the posts above. My priority was to improve the handling of my car first. To this end I concentrated on the suspension upgrades and re used the SBC and 4 speed that has been in the car for the past 35 years. I'm currently driving and enjoying the vastly improved handling while I save and plan for stage 2. In the second stage of my build, my plan is to install a new generation LT1 and T56. Actually the T56 may come much sooner.

Set goals and build in stages so you can manage the project and enjoy it while you are funding the next stage.

[Rod]

You've already done some upgrades to the suspension, brakes, and drivetrain right? I would suggest that you spend your time and money on honing your driving skills and when your driving skills exceed the performance of your car then worry about updating the car. You will get more performance increase out of a driving school and seat time then you will from parts.

^^^that is church, if I would have waited for all the extra stuff I wanted, I would still be waiting. Hell there is stuff I still want(but dont need) Instead I have made some awesome friends, Hung out had dinners, raced had beers with the top names in the industry, had manufactures offer build help and transport for my car to events, won free stuff, made money, been in several magazines, all in 3 years, I not bragging just pointing out you should just get out there and enjoy the race, youre missing the best stuff about this sport......and its not hunting down parts

[shizzy]

Cash. If I don't have it, my truck sits.

[brownz]

My Camaro was apart for almost 10 years the reason is college ect. I did waste a lot of money changing my mind as I went. I wanted to do a mini tub from the start and didn't then did the mini tub. But for the most part I got what I wanted. I didn't really want any used parts for this build but I did get a pull out 02 LS t56 with 19k miles. I have started a budget build on a 72 nova and I trying to get as many used parts as I can. I have come to realize good used parts are the way to go. I have north of 40k in my Camaro and its not finished and I did almost all of the work myself. That is a big money saver.

The one thing that I refuse to do with this hobby is go into debt for it. With owning. House and 5 cars I don't want any debt besides the house. Some people feel different and that's ok as they get things done faster then I do but you never know what is around the corner and having the choice to sell a car that you really don't need is a nice thing to have. The one thing that I would tell anyone that starts a project is whatever you thing the total will be double it!!!

[MonzaRacer]

Ok so you want to talk budget, I have my 77 Monza up on jack stands in my drive on gravel. I have spent 3 yrs scraping up pistons, my first iteration was gonna be a 040 283 forged piston engine, but Sealed Power tore down forging plant and had it stored in Singapore, so I couldnt source two new 040 283 forge flat tops as I already have 6 used one. So then a 0.125 over 283 6 in rod modified 350 forged flat top sbc. Then the numbers of flat tops in std ,forged dried up.
Well I finally came across another set of 6 040 283 pistons so now I am back to the 283 040 plan, stock steel crank, planning in at least some small journal 5.7 Eagle I beams w/cap screws.
My heads are gonna be 461 double humps, 2.02/1.60 as my buddy traded me for them, all I need to do is finish them , still need one new machine in guide and finish valve job. Will run them with Z springs and lightweight LT4 retainers, they are cut for big springs but wont need them for my plans.
Most likely will run a Comp 268H cam, then top it at first with my old Scorpion intake and a 600 AFB till I get the parts for my FI set up done, unless luck runs my way.
Turns out I was gifted with a LT1 intake complete with rails and injectors. I intend to run it with Megasquirt and my own DIS set up,and als have been also working out a cam sensor set up the turns out to be rather ingenious as it will be part of the oil pump drive from an actual LT1 stub. So n need to modify the intakes ,,,much. And turns out the ports all line right up according to the gaskets. Just need to drill couple of more holes per side and get a remote thermostat housing.
Also tossing around using LT1 balancer too. Time and such will tell.
As for my Monza I hope to be able to keep the factory AC and use later GM compressor, type 2 PS pump and CSI alternator.
Also if funds and luck prevail OBX turbo headers and twin ebay GT2871R turbos and ebay inter cooler and rad!
All in name of Cheap Trick,, its name.
I am also trying to decide on if I want to take time to install ShockWaves up front or use CoilOver s from Ridetech(and they are just 30 miles from me, my mom lives about 1/2 mile up road from them ,and such minor details.
I had been thinking of CoolRide in back, CoilOvers in front and use my ebay NOS bottle as air tank as possible mix.
Have been trying to decide on front suspension of building my own OR buying ready made lowers and mod them, and SPC uppers from SC&C and then keep on with my S10/Gbody front brakes with Corvette brakes S10 ZQ style spindles allow bolting on Vette calipers easily enough. and scrounging for cheap 17 in front wheels would clear them well enough.
Body design keeps me limited up front in tires too at best with most likely 215 40 17 still debating rear tire sizes. And I have been debating swapping in a 8.5 later S10 rearend and using 4x4 as its wider and allows using newer style wheels as current S10 rear (86 7.5) requires 3.5 in back space OR bolt on wheels adapter.
Front will use adapters unless I can locate proper offset wheels.
for now I am set with my TCI th350 but still hope for a 700R4 or 4L60e. I DO have possible side move of using a modified 93 S10 computer and DRAC to run a 4L60E.
Time funds etc all play part, the wreck I had in Dec. may help or hurt my plans, depends on insurance and how much I need to spend on the new DD (98 Buick Regal only 130k but has trans issue so may need to locate new trans soon) Still in moms spare car (94 Olds 98) till get a lot of bugs worked out of Buick as it sat for 1 1/2 after being stolen. But it now has new rear brakes, fresh turned front rotors, still gotta change coolant elbows and get few new switches (window/door lock) fix power mirrors etc. But car is solid and runs well. Kind of plush for me though.

Oh on Monza front I built the pass seat with Monza bottom and narrowed foreign car upper(got pair for $10 at swap meet! and they recline nad have hole behind shoulders for harness.
Thinking of trying to talk Ridetech into letting me mix and match Tiger Cage parts on Monza to make something fit. Then could bolt in upper bar to mount harness too, but I have set up to fasten to floor mounts.
Oh and also working on bolt in upper control arm mount for rear to make it 4 link or three link with Fays2 Watts link set up.
Found out 94 Park Ave fuel sender/pump fits Monza tank no mods so swap in Walbro 255 pump and at least ready for FI.
Also thinking of S10 rear brakes but may just use Corvette back there too.

My second project is to drop a low miles 454 into a 84 caprice I got and swap in CoolRide, Corvette brakes and Corvette 18in repro wheels to make a fun driver. Then the hot rodder in me tried something while playing with turbo calculator, plugged in the 454 and it came up using same size turbos as my Monza if kept it to 5 psi (cast piston P30 truck short deck 454,,,,should hold 5 psi) and still make over 700 hp and Monza specs out by Comp cam Quest at 580hp at 10 PSI and 599 by turbo calc, Turbo calc set the 454 at 781, but I seriously doubt it but heck even 450 to 500 would be awesome. Monza is gonna run around 3000lb and Caprice should be at/under 3500.
And hoping to have low $$$$$$ in both. Mainly but being cheap and using inexpensive parts and doing lot of it my self.
I LOVE daring to be different(took it from old Car Craft moto) and I have been challenged to build cheap all my life. My skills have led me to succeed very well and be a better tech as well.
It doesnt take cubic dollars to build a great car, it takes cubic dollars to build a perfectly polished and designed and perfectly performing car. I see guys building $100k cars, great go for it, more power to them.
BUT If I can build a $5000 or less car and it even hang on those over priced cars bumpers, then I WIN. Cause I never took the cash route.
Bet me if my cars wont run, I have done cheap too many times.
I build/tun race engines periodically, most times I find what other big dollars dont, namely because details mean more than an open credit card. I have taken so many high dollar engines and pulled so much more from them and the owners now believe in me. My biggest issue in last 6 yrs has been economy and Obama. Mostly the latter beating up on former. BUT I have done better than most with 1/4 of what many had all their life.
Lots of dollars can go fast but more people have set records with rebuilt "junk" than I care to mention. Knowing what to do is much better than buying the most expensive an d finding out it wont work.
My cars, God willing, will prove my point. And in the immortal words of one of my Pro-Touring heroes, Bret Voekel, if it breaks FIX IT!

[MR. PACO]

Look at mary pozzi camaro 1972:
Front: Hotchkis control arms and sway bar
rear: Hotchkis 3 link
ridetech: Triple adj. Coilovers front and rear
12.7.1 agr steering box
18*9.5 fr. And 18*11 rear /275 35 and 315 30 rear tire
she can hang with all of the big boys look her up.
402 ls2 afr heads 3.89 gears
look at how i got my engine and trans . Hotchkis will surely be cheaper than dse (they make great stuff for those who have the $$$$$ work within your budget and do a lot of research) just get the shop that you get your parts from to work with you.

[badazz81z28]

I know Mary's car is not as built as some of the pros here. But her car is not a budget car. She has a solid $30K+ in that car. Not to mention she has a 3 link that is not on the market and was listed for $4K when it was possibly available through Hotchkis. She has Forgeline wheels, 600hp Stroker Engine, T56 Magnum, vintage air etc etc....basically the stuff I want to do. Not to mention the car was totally stripped and basically restored and race prepped by Cris at JCG.

My inspiration! I'm not looking for budget tips. I have been there done that...I'm ready to do it right. Just need to figure out how I'm going to get there.





Look at mary pozzi camaro 1972:
Front: Hotchkis control arms and sway bar
rear: Hotchkis 3 link
ridetech: Triple adj. Coilovers front and rear
12.7.1 agr steering box
18*9.5 fr. And 18*11 rear /275 35 and 315 30 rear tire
she can hang with all of the big boys look her up.
402 ls2 afr heads 3.89 gears
look at how i got my engine and trans . Hotchkis will surely be cheaper than dse (they make great stuff for those who have the $$$$$ work within your budget and do a lot of research) just get the shop that you get your parts from to work with you.

[badazz81z28]

Deleted. Double post

[71RS/SS396]

I know Mary's car is not as built as some of the pros here. But her car is not a budget car. She has a solid $30K+ in that car. Not to mention she has a 3 link that is not on the market and was listed for $4K when it was possibly available through Hotchkis. She has Forgeline wheels, 600hp Stroker Engine, T56 Magnum, vintage air etc etc....basically the stuff I want to do. Not to mention the car was totally stripped and basically restored and race prepped by Cris at JCG.

My inspiration! I'm not looking for budget tips. I have been there done that...I'm ready to do it right. Just need to figure out how I'm going to get there.

Mary, ran a long time on leaf springs and was plenty fast because she learned how to drive properly and spent the time in the seat.

[badazz81z28]

Mary, ran a long time on leaf springs and was plenty fast because she learned how to drive properly and spent the time in the seat.



I appreciate the advice, but not the scope of the discussion. Learning to drive..Not learning to drive...Doesnt change the situation I'm looking into.

I could be the best driver out there, yet I still ponder on how to pay for the build.

What I really need right now is some forged wheels and a roll bar before I can really do anything competitive. I was informed that my Summit brand wheels are not safe for autocross nor the road course.

[srh3trinity]

Have you thought about CCW's? I know they aren't cheap, but for three piece, track proven wheels with custom backspacing, they are pretty reasonable. The Weld RT series has a variety of offsets too and they traditionally have built very strong wheels so far as I know. From my research, those are probably the best deals going. Rushforths are pretty reasonable IMHO as well as compared to Forgelines, HRE's etc. I will say that I have not priced Formula 43's.

[BonzoHansen]

you can't have champagne dreams & caviar wishes on a regular man budget. I mean do you really need $10,000+ in DSE parts? It's amazing what a 2nd gen camaro can do with a well setup stock sub frame and leaf springs if you know how to drive. mary kicked ass for years in hers until the HP wars got out of hand. build a solid car with enough brakes & hp to have fun and go learn how to drive. it does matter. Even if I could buy an F15 I don't know how to fly it.

"I would like to attend OUSCI" - attend or participate? Attending is cheap, I already have. I have neither the coin nor more importantly the time to become a good enough driver or make my car good enough to qualify.

"Summit brand wheels are not safe for autocross nor the road course. " - WTF??? Not safe for autocross? then they are not safe for the public highways. Someone is blowing smoke up your skirt And you certainly don't need a roll bar in an autocross. Road racing might be a different story I had my car on the open track with stock wheels and no cage and did ok - and had 10 tons of fun. And out ran a small handful better cars, still not sure why lol.

IMO if you have enough scratch to buy a new corvette then put that money away every month - take it right out of your pay check and direct deposit it in a side savings account. Until the funds are enough, enjoy the car you have now, make minor changes/upgrades that fit the final plan and as you can afford, and go racing as is. Hell, you may find out you don't like racing.

If you try to keep up with the Jones' you will almost always fail. Because when you get close to them they pull further ahead.


but since you'll poo poo all that ....

make a plan, stick to it no matter what newest & greatest comes out - chasing the bleeding edge is a suckers bet
sell everything you don't need, save the money
save money anywhere you can - from buying lunch to HBO
direct deposit some money from every paycheck in a side savings account
one toy only. no extra corvettes, no boats or anything in the water, other expensive hobbies like skiing,, etc.
scour ebay/CL/forums/etc for deals only on parts on your plan
do as much yourself as you can
no kids - wives & GFs are expensive too
cheap/no vacations
2nd job, maybe at a place that might come in handy - shop, parts store, etc.

[badazz81z28]

I hear ya Scott, Yeah I was told a while back when I was looking into Autocross they saw I had "Made in China" wheels. They told me that "those cheap wheel" are not reliably safe for hard cornering.

[GeoffP]

If that was the case (regarding Chinese wheels) then they would not be approved for use on the road in the U.S. Even good wheels fail - ask Yancy what happened to one of the Boze wheels on his '10 Camaro. There's a picture of it somewhere...scary stuff but you can't let that stop you. Even the best wheels have manufacturing problems due to machining errors or bad materials that slipped through QC.

[LS1NOVA]

I built my car over the course of 7 years with 95% of the cost covered by doing general auto repair jobs outside of my regular job. Did a $500 side job, bought more parts, etc. $27,000 total.

If you dont have the cash dont buy it. Too many people getting over thier head nowdays and end up defaulting loans etc.

Also dont fall into the "If its not DSE this DSE that its not cool" mentality. Nothing against DSE or other top notch manufacturers parts but there are definately cheaper ways to get similiar results with a little bit less wow factor.

[Rod]

If that was the case (regarding Chinese wheels) then they would not be approved for use on the road in the U.S. Even good wheels fail - ask Yancy what happened to one of the Boze wheels on his '10 Camaro. There's a picture of it somewhere...scary stuff but you can't let that stop you. Even the best wheels have manufacturing problems due to machining errors or bad materials that slipped through QC.

Yep, nothing on Boze, I remember that, and they make a great wheel, I have many freinds running there wheels since then without a problem, it has nothing to do with china or billet or whoever, its just failure, crap fails

just build within youre budget, if you want all the 4 link and aftermarket frames, the rock-on, all many here are saying is the first build dosn't have to put you in debt, and what Im telling you is Bad Penny wasnt bad penny the first time around, Marys Jenny Craig car was very simple when Mary and david first built it, many of the best builds are second and third builds of the same car

[SecondGenFan]

You've already done some upgrades to the suspension, brakes, and drivetrain right? I would suggest that you spend your time and money on honing your driving skills and when your driving skills exceed the performance of your car then worry about updating the car. You will get more performance increase out of a driving school and seat time then you will from parts.

This is well said. How many people drive more car than they can handle. (You tube and people wrecking their Lambo) Take a look at Mary Pozzi and her Camaro. The last time i looked she was still running leaf springs and look at what she has been able to accomplish. That car was not built overnight. It improved along with her skills.

If my Camaro was my only ride it would not spend more than a weekend on jack stands if it could be avoided. Passion, some side work on weekends and or evenings and you will be surprised what you will accomplish. Good luck on your build!

[badazz81z28]

I appreciate the responses. It appears this threads has morphed in a direction I didn't intend on. Still good conversation, but I guess I should have posted my current build status first. The way I have been rolling, my build is actually costing me more money than if I did it right the first time. There's nothing on my car that hasn't already been touched. I have a completely rebuilt 10 bolt with Moser parts, a TKO 600, an LS engine, complete Hotchkis suspension...yada yada...The problem with my build is I go cheap in the beginning than I end up going for what I wanted in the first place. I know I can run with what I have and it will perform well, I just want the car to be the way I want it.

It's a domino effect...one thing effects the other. Like wheels for the rearend example...

I know you all mean well and want to help, thank you...its just some of the post are frustrating considering my question was not about budget builds or being able to go around a course. I really just wanted to know how the owners of the very nice cars went about paying for them (outside of the people with six figure jobs).

[71RS/SS396]

I appreciate the responses. It appears this threads has morphed in a direction I didn't intend on. Still good conversation, but I guess I should have posted my current build status first. The way I have been rolling, my build is actually costing me more money than if I did it right the first time. There's nothing on my car that hasn't already been touched. I have a completely rebuilt 10 bolt with Moser parts, a TKO 600, an LS engine, complete Hotchkis suspension...yada yada...The problem with my build is I go cheap in the beginning than I end up going for what I wanted in the first place. I know I can run with what I have and it will perform well, I just want the car to be the way I want it.

It's a domino effect...one thing effects the other. Like wheels for the rearend example...

I know you all mean well and want to help, thank you...its just some of the post are frustrating considering my question was not about budget builds or being able to go around a course. I really just wanted to know how the owners of the very nice cars went about paying for them (outside of the people with six figure jobs).

I know I contributed to the direction change in the thread but I was trying to get you to look at the big picture. I would not finance a car build if you plan on really being competitive at these events. The expense of driving school, safety equipment, maintenance of the car (tires, brakes, repairs) is a pretty good chunk of change. I spent $5K on tires alone last year between events and track days testing and practicing. I'd hate to see you spend all that money on parts and then not be able to afford to actually participate in the events. Fwiw I think your chances of getting noticed and invited to OUSCI are greater if you have a budget built car and you're driving skills are good enough to be competitve.

[badazz81z28]

I know I contributed to the direction change in the thread but I was trying to get you to look at the big picture. I would not finance a car build if you plan on really being competitive at these events. The expense of driving school, safety equipment, maintenance of the car (tires, brakes, repairs) is a pretty good chunk of change. I spent $5K on tires alone last year between events and track days testing and practicing. I'd hate to see you spend all that money on parts and then not be able to afford to actually participate in the events. Fwiw I think your chances of getting noticed and invited to OUSCI are greater if you have a budget built car and you're driving skills are good enough to be competitve.

Yea, I found out a couple weeks ago that a lot of the events are in the hood of $200 a day! The fun isn't cheap lol. I will work with what I have for now. BTW, I just noticed my steering box is leaking....Time for a new one ;)

[MonzaRacer]

Lee can set you up on box rebuild. Wheels from china bad? Then half the street legal stock wheels are off limits as are several other mid range wheels.
Save for big name wheels and drive cheap. Are they gonna bash some of the cheaper tires that come from china? Doubt it tire and wheels all have ratings or are not legal.
Build the car and up grade as you go. Look at rons $5000 mustang. How many engines he trashed?
Being greedy in your build will cost you stupid tax (interest) that would buy more parts.
Johnny Cash could have been my hero pt builder.

[MrQuick]

Don't forget used parts. You can find some great deals on parts that are new but didn't work for someone. Try to keep an open list for some parts. Like rims. Don't get stuck on a brand or a series. It's like they say, you always find the deals when you are not looking.

[badazz81z28]

Don't forget used parts. You can find some great deals on parts that are new but didn't work for someone. Try to keep an open list for some parts. Like rims. Don't get stuck on a brand or a series. It's like they say, you always find the deals when you are not looking.

I will be so looking for deals on wheels!! Its going to be quite some time before I can pay for brand new ones.

[GeoffP]

I got mine off Discount Tire Direct for nearly half price and $170 in savings for buying tires and wheels at the same time. I think I actually ended up with less money in the set I just bought than I had in my previous set and the new ones are both bigger and wider. Deals are out there - you just have to be patient. It took me 3-4 months before I pulled the trigger.

[g-machine]

I've often wondered how a person can own a house, have a family, dd car payments, etc and still have the money to build a $100k 69 Camaro.......still don't understand it. Loans? How can you pay that loan on top of everything else?

My plan is low budget build with as many new parts as possible. I too am building a late 2nd gen rubber nose Camaro. It was a rust free roller shell when I got it, which is an advantage. My plan from the start has been DSE mini-tub but on the cheap......so I hunted for the bargains and pieced together the entire backhalf kit. This is not easy for 2nd gens, too popular and none of it gets sold. The way I got mine was the seller had upgraded to a q-link. I have capitalized on other builders upgrading while still in the build process - new parts and mock up parts that have never seen the road. Craigslist, eBay, and these forums have provided 95% of my parts to this point. The other big expense: tools! I have a welder, compressor, and most of the tools needed to build the car.....but it was a huge expense! Watched for deals on the tool trucks as well. There are a lot of entry level techs in my area that upgrade tools and trade in items that are barely used, if used at all.

I too will eventually need a loan to finish my car.......and that's where 401k's are nice! It's a great way to get a loan with a easy payment plan. I will still wait until a daily driver or two is paid off.

Good luck with your build!

[wayward]

I believe its a personal decision on how much you can justify to spend on the car. Then figure out your timeline. Most of the time they are directly related. I have had my car since 1984 and drove it through high school. I have barely driven it over the last 10 years because I had big plans. I got messed up in the head of what I could have and compared it to what I did have. So I wasn't enjoying the car - that was a big mistake.

I started taking it apart a year ago now to start a major redo but then I realized how many undone projects around the house I had not completed. So I took the next nine or ten months finishing them and now I'm full bore on my car and feel good about it. I have been buying parts over the last two years as I found great deals. Most I will use and some I'll try to resell. Now my body is off the frame and on the rotisserie and all the parts are on order or I have to be able to measure the rear end. I hope to have a roller in one month. I plan on being at LS Fest in September this year.72203

This is my first time posting pictures, if i did it wrong please let me know. I read the forum rules first and think I'm ok... ;-)

I am doing the work myself and having fun with the kids as I do the project, today my son and I flattened the lip and made a plug for the heater fan on the firewall. That is priceless.7220472201

Plus this gives me a mental goal that's helps me maintain focus on work and life.

Thats what I'm getting out of it. But to answer your original question I'm going to have around $25K - 30K and I don't count the car because I paid $1k for it in 1984.

67 Le mans Convertible being converted to a GTO
5.3 L truck motor
Holley ECU - hope to elimintate the manadatory dyno.
CTSV t-56 converted to f-body by jason in Texas
9" ford 4.22 detroit locker (I'm in nascar country)
Intro Pentia 17" wheel
4 wheel Wilwood Disk Brakes and master
hydratech hydroboost
SPC upper and Lower internet
Viking Shocks (MCB)
A lot of stuff from Matts Classic Botie, ebay ,and Amazon.
Vintage Air - from a local speed shop, Rod Express in Newton, NC - but i hear MCB has great prices as well.
GTO leather seats - ebay.

If you don't have the disposable income, I would have a rock solid plan and stick to it... Most of what I have listed is perminate but some will be upgraded as time passes and more deals reveal them self.

break it and and have fun with the car. The people that mess with this are great.

EL

[silvermonte]

Thanks for the inputs! My rationale was that it was no different than an auto loan. Right now I only have 1 car payment and was thinking of getting a new Vette, but I just HATE having the same production mold car as the next guy. I want something not as common as the new mustang or camaro. Right now, I really don't see my car as a "hobby", its basically my DD.

New cars are just ridiculous in price. I keep imagining what $50K would do to my car vs buying a plastic 2012 Camaro.

Ive thought about getting a loan also with this exact same thought.The only problem with this is that you would have to get full insurance on a new car and you wouldnt have to do that with a project loan allowing you more money,BUT that insurance protects that new car against any loss.Heaven forbin if your house burnt down or anything like that, then you wouldnt have you car project and you would still be out of the loan money with no way to protect yourself from what you owe on the loan. Thats how I convince myself from going that route and the intrest paid is less then insurance but its still extra money paid out. I say take it a bit slower if you have to and the money saved will paid dividends down the road.

[SLO_Z28]

The thought that you have to spend a ton of money to build a fast car isnt true. At RTTC 4 Brian Hobaugh won everything, every competition, and every shoot out. Brian has a rather mild gen 1 small block, springs and shocks and that's it. Brian has stock brakes, in fact I gave his dad a ride to O'Riellys for a reman caliper to replace one that had failed Saturday. In the Saturday autocross a friends 92 Camaro with springs and shocks (and not even expensive ones) beat Bad Penny, the E-Max challenger, the Newman 55, the speedtech nova, a total of 65 cars. Point being you don't need to spend a lot of money to go fast.

[CornHusker4Life]

This is how I "afforded" my other 69 camaro. I waited and waited for over a year for another body. It sounds like a long time but people take years sometimes to build their car. A 69 camaro popped up on ebay that was "rust free". The description was vague and said other parts included. The other parts not listed in the ad were DSE speed kit 3, DSE mini tubs installed, DSE quadralink, DSE 12 bolt rear, DSE subframe connectors, Wilwood disc brakes, complete new interior. I thought of it as I was buying the parts and recieved a rust free(except for a marble sized rust hole in the rear window channel) 69 camaro for free. I knew I wanted Fesler brushed aluminum everything so I waited until their "Black Friday sale" and bought almost everything they offer for 69 camaros for 30-60% off. My point is, you can afford what you want if you are willing to wait and pull the trigger when deals come up. I bought the 69 camaro 5 minutes after it was posted on ebaymotors. The deals are out there you just have to find them. Do not settle on what you want because you will regret it, just save and buy the items you want

[coolwelder62]

The thought that you have to spend a ton of money to build a fast car isnt true. At RTTC 4 Brian Hobaugh won everything, every competition, and every shoot out. Brian has a rather mild gen 1 small block, springs and shocks and that's it. Brian has stock brakes, in fact I gave his dad a ride to O'Riellys for a reman caliper to replace one that had failed Saturday. In the Saturday autocross a friends 92 Camaro with springs and shocks (and not even expensive ones) beat Bad Penny, the E-Max challenger, the Newman 55, the speedtech nova, a total of 65 cars. Point being you don't need to spend a lot of money to go fast.In order to go this fast in this type of car.You must be a first class DRIVER.Which Brian H. is.As Tim M. states spend some time in a running/driving car.Seat time is where is at.

[badazz81z28]

The thought that you have to spend a ton of money to build a fast car isnt true. At RTTC 4 Brian Hobaugh won everything, every competition, and every shoot out. Brian has a rather mild gen 1 small block, springs and shocks and that's it. Brian has stock brakes, in fact I gave his dad a ride to O'Riellys for a reman caliper to replace one that had failed Saturday. In the Saturday autocross a friends 92 Camaro with springs and shocks (and not even expensive ones) beat Bad Penny, the E-Max challenger, the Newman 55, the speedtech nova, a total of 65 cars. Point being you don't need to spend a lot of money to go fast.

Do you know the specs of the car? Just by looking at this pic...It doesnt look like a budget car to me. Hey it's corvette...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSC03154JPG-1.jpg

[Project92rs]

In the Saturday autocross a friends 92 Camaro with springs and shocks (and not even expensive ones) beat Bad Penny, the E-Max challenger, the Newman 55, the speedtech nova, a total of 65 cars. Point being you don't need to spend a lot of money to go fast.

That car also has motor work (a 383 has replaced the original 305), intake work (aftermarket and ported), heads, cam, exhaust, wheels, tires, etc. Definitely more done than just springs and shocks based on talking to the owner at the event. But 3rd gen Camaros can be built on pretty reasonable budgets and he was no where near the spend that went into cars like Bad Penny.

Seat time is definitely more important than any other modification you can make though. Being out there driving it will take more time off your runs than any shiny new part will. Finding deals on used components can save money as well. Keeping the car as a Gen 1 SBC might also save a few dollars over the LSx route. But the most important thing is still getting out there to drive it.

[icemanrd19]

My build started out spending left and right. I have now slowed down. When i bought the car I had a GF and no worries in the world. I now have a house, wife, kid, dog, mortgage, and a car payment. I now have to be smarter with my money. I have the cash to finish the car within a month but realistically If its done this year I will be happy. Im shooting for 10/8/13. nice anniversary gift to myself. If its not done by then well the season is pretty much over. One thing i can promise this car will be ripping the streets in 2014.

I cant wait to kick all of you're asses :)

[Quickboat]

Heck Ive been wrenching on my crate for ten years. Each year I spend money on things I want to upgrade. Only this year I am upgrading the upgrading I already did before I found out about PT.com. Geese. But I had some issues with rust in the trunk area and rear wheel houses that I have always wanted to fix anyway. So I go the brainy idea to put in mini tubs. Well with mini tubs comes new wider tires, right? Bigger wheels right? New 12 bolt? Gosh those 11 inch discs up front and 10.5 inch discs out back LOOK PUNY now...gotta get bigger brakes right? It has a way of snow balling as most of these guys will profess. I just want to have a BADD MACHINE even if i dont race it much. But having a car less then you are satisfied with is no fun either so spend what you need to be happy and watch out for that yellow snow!

[icemanrd19]

ive also taken the approach that all the hard stuff will only be done once. There wont be a ounce of rust on my car and it will be very solid. If i ever do sell it the buyer will know he is getting a solid professionally built camaro

[PT Sportwagon]

I am the epedime of budget builds. I picked up my wagon for $1300. It ran but had issues. I got it running better and have driven it. I have slowly replaced parts that needed it. putting on some performance parts. I do what I can when I can afford it. I do most my big purchases around refund time. most parts have to wait till warm weather as unlike most I have no garage to work in. Just the Apt parking lot. Consider yourself lucky to have a place to work on your car. Hell It may take me 10+ years to get my POS finished but I love it and will never get rid of it. ( wife would kill me if I did,LOL)

Tim

[andrewb70]

....I really just wanted to know how the owners of the very nice cars went about paying for them (outside of the people with six figure jobs).

I think that question has been answered numerous times: save money then build. There are no magical solutions.

Andrew

[Beach Cruiser]

I've been working on my car for 9 years! there's been times when I saved up money for 3 months, ordered a part and it took 30 mins to install! I've done all my own work including building my own subframe. I've scoured ebay, and other forums looking for stuff being parted out or sold for cheap. I use OEM wheels, I don't have any big buck name brand stuff in my car, just good ole GM. I've spent the last several years honing my driving skills and I'm going to my first OUSCC qualifier in April. Hopefully my budget built car with my driving skills will get noticed. My car ain't pretty, but it's pretty fast. I'd like to think I can drive just as good or better than some of the big names you hear about. I did my second HPDE1 when most of the big names were on track with me in their first one. I purposly bought my daily driver to drive at the local autox and HPDE events so When I was ready with the camaro, the driver would be ready too.

[67Soto]

Okay I know this is a crazy old thread but I had to respond after reading 3 pages, DON'T TAKE A LOAN!!! I was in the same boat a few months ago with my build, I was looking at paint/body (15-20K alone!), 4 link suspension, DSE tubs, front control arms, etc. etc., then my father was stricken with stage 4 cancer and I am SO happy I did not take any loans or blow a large portion of my savings for this camaro build. He needs all the financial help he can get at this time and he has no 401K, retirement plan, life insurance, NADA!!! Most importantly, I am working my ass off now to finish building the car with the hotchkis leafs, ricks tank, AAW harness etc. I already had sitting in the garage so he can get his chance to drive this car. I guess the point I am learning is build within my means little by little because you never know what life will throw at you and really at the end this is just a hobby, not something that I would want to have to sell to re-pay a personal loan (high interest) because life had different plans for me and my family. At this point I can truly say "I am enjoying the journey" with my father by my side (when he feels well of course:-) Still a ways to go on my car but it's not costing me a dime to sit in my garage waiting for me to get back at it....

[MrQuick]

good move, sorry to hear about your father

"build within your means"

[67Soto]

good move, sorry to hear about your father

"build within your means"

Thanks Mr. Quick, nice shop btw! I will have to stop by next time I'm in San Leandro visiting the in-laws;-)

[Nicks67GTO]

It's simple

-How bad do you want it?
-Be realistic
-Save up twice as much cash as you think its going to cost
-Look at everything from a cost vs performance increase and see where diminishing returns come in. Spend accordingly
-DO NOT go into debt for a damn hotrod

[tmadden]

Many a night I sat on my computer ready to pull the trigger on drawing money from my 401k. Glad I didn't do it. Take your time. Get your parts when you can. Fix what you can as you go. Then finish the labor at the end once you have accumulated all your critical parts. 5 years of selling my vacation back to buy parts. Slow process but was best decision. Now I'm near the end and happy how it's finishing up. But make sure everything is done right the 1st time. I spent a lot of money on redos. You'll hate that.