Lock Up or Non Lockup??

[novajess1972]

In the market for 700r4 to replace my TH350.

I keep seeing the choice between a lock-up or non lock-up converter.

What is the difference and why would I choose one over the other?

[Quickboat]

A lock up converter has an added clutch assy that, as it says, locks the motor and trans together circumventing the fluid coupler. Better for mileage but I dont know if the 700 had one that can sustain a bunch of torque. Maybe someone with better hands on could chime in..
You can learn a bunch reading about them here
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/performance_automotive.htm

[73RSZ28]

My vote is non lock-up unless you are chasing mpg's. In that case I would go with a 4l80e with a controller. I have a 2004r in my Camaro non lock-up with a 3000 stall. No heat issues what so ever. I am putting a 700r4 in my 56 GMC and it will be non lock up with a 2600 stall. Keep in mind you must use a trans that is set up to run non lock up along with a nlu converter.

[69cutlassrkt]

I prefer lock-up. After being used to a car with a lock- up converter it annoys me seeing the rpms higher than what they should be and it willl be even worse with a higher stall torque converter. I have heard it is more difficult to get the lock up working right on 700r4 and 2004rs though.

[sporter]

I was warned by several trans companies that if I used a typical performance stall converter (3000+ rpm) without a lock-up converter for daily driving I would be adding alot of heat to the trans and run the risk of frying a $$$ transmission. Accordingly, I've always run lock-ups in my 2004Rs and 4L80s. And very good coolers too.

[eric1967]

I have had great luck with a 700r4 with lock up converter. It only locks up in overdrive. I recommend spending a little more on the converter & have one built for your car. Good luck keep us posted. Thanks Eric

[1989GTA]

I was warned by several trans companies that if I used a typical performance stall converter (3000+ rpm) without a lock-up converter for daily driving I would be adding alot of heat to the trans and run the risk of frying a $$$ transmission. Accordingly, I've always run lock-ups in my 2004Rs and 4L80s. And very good coolers too.

This.

[novajess1972]

Thanks for the help and education, guys!

I am now looking at a 4l80e, since I may do an LSx swap in the near future.

Question: What is the least expensive controller that I can use? Are they all upwards of $1000? Geesh!

Got a local guy here that can get me the tranny for pretty reasonable....just have to figure out the controller part of it.

JW

[Steve Chryssos]

Our controller is $1k, but you get an on-board display tuner, an ultra fast acting processor (which truly does impact shift response) and a custom calibration engineered for your exact application and driving style from the people who have comprehensive driving and track experience. Plus unprecedented tech support. I know price is important. You pay for it once, but need to live with it years.

The difference in cost is actually a steal: It amounts to the on-board display/tuner, advanced fine-tuning capability and, above all else, custom tailored service and expertise. We'd love to work with you.
Thanks,
Steve

[novajess1972]

Steve,

What is the level of difficulty in using this programmer? Is this something that I will need to bring in a rocket scientist for or is it user-friendly? I'm no dummy, mind you, but sometimes this new tech can get away from me.

[Steve Chryssos]

Before I answer that, I want to answer your direct question. PCS and US Shift make great budget controllers. We just seek a greater level of tuning capability and prefer an onboard tuner rather than a laptop for single person drive-tuning. My last post sounds way too sales based, when in fact I simply want to clarify that there is value associated with the higher cost.

As far as tuning, it is very simple. Much easier than tuning EFI. Beyond that we have been known to set up Saturday AM or late night "Training and Tuning" appointments to help you become an expert tuner. It's about a 30 minute process--after which you'll be thrilled. We supply a custom calibration that is about 90% of they way there based on our exchange. You'll be up and running based on that alone. Then we teach you how to take it the rest of the way to perfection.

[novajess1972]

Thanks for the explanation, Steve.

Can you PM me more info or a link so that I can further research your product? The more research I do, the more it seems that I'm pointing in the direction of a 4l80e rather than the 700r4 that I was originally interested in.

[Steve Chryssos]

Sure. Here's the link. We just put a ton of pictures on the page to help people better understand the various tuning and display screens.

http://www.twistmachine.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=8

[Steve Chryssos]

To some extent, you're comparing a TV cable to a TPS sensor. You get so much greater tuning resolution and control with an E trans! I cringe when people yank the electronics of 4L80E's. What a waste. With the 700, it's not uncommon to have a delayed 1-2 shift that KICKS when it finally happens. Or a 3-4 shift that happens way too early. To a large extent, you're stuck with what you get.

The 4L80E's electronic capability on the other hand, is not only flexible, it can literally transform the personality of your car -- not just the transmission, but the whole car will take on a tailored vibe. And the way we do our calibrations, you'll always have two personalities in one. Tame from 0-30% TPS, then aggressive. We don't believe in A-B calibration unless you do towing or occasionally drive in blizzards. The capability is there, we just prefer split calibrations.

It all costs more. But the value equation is real.

[novajess1972]

I am sourcing a 4l80e...hopefully sometime this week. I will be in touch regarding the controller.

Thanks, Steve.

[Barrrf]

this may be relevant to your last post - but I was told to stay away from early 90s 4L80e's. Is this true?

[Steve Chryssos]

I am sourcing a 4l80e...hopefully sometime this week. I will be in touch regarding the controller.

Thanks, Steve.

Thank you. We're around, but busy -- so busy and only have two phone lines. Please leave a message if you don't get through. We usually respond within the hour.

[Steve Chryssos]

this may be relevant to your last post - but I was told to stay away from early 90s 4L80e's. Is this true?

Yes, that's true. Avoid the first coupla years.
Thanks