Advice on PPG paint system- what to use after filler

[rlodad]

Hi all,
I am looking for advice on the paint for my 1969 Camaro Convertible. notata, the mechanic I am working with has a thread on it here:

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?90846-My-1st-PT-69-Camaro-vert-build&highlight=notata

I have taken the car to bright shiny bare metal, replaced both quarters, the passenger door skin and both footwells. The interior was covered in POR 15, and the entire outside of the car and undercarriage shot with 2 coats of PPG DP50, which is still covering the outer body. The car is garaged all the time. The firewall was smoothed and shot with PPG deltron Lemans Blue before the resto started. The fenders are about to go back on (finishing a Vintage Air install with lines hidden in the fender before putting the passenger fender back on- if anyone in the paint forum has tricks to reroute the AC hoses, I'd love to hear...), and then I will start with body smoothing and paint. The DP 50 is already there, and I know it needs to be scuffed prior to applying the next coat. The driver's door skin is a little wavy, but aside from that the body is as straight as new metal gets.

My question regards filler and what to cover the filler with before BC/CC? I was originally going to do K38 over 3M filler, but was talked into Slick Sand at the paint shop. I shoot with Eastwood Concours guns, and have a 2.2 tip for the slick sand. So:

1. If I do the slick sand, it seems many people then cover with primer like K36 or K38. Others though, suggest blocking the slick sand to perfection, then cover with DP50 again and then do BC/CC. Is there a correct answer?

2. Is K38 better, as you can then level it more easily prior to BC/CC than DP50? (I know all the DPs are now LF, I'm just a lazy typist...)

3. I am going to use Deltron DBC base, but both the 2002 and 2021 PPG clears have been recommended. Anybody have a preference? Any pics to back up the preference?

4. Finally, I need to spray the periphery of the SS grill. Do you just use a BC/CC like the metal or would you recommend a flex additive?

The undercarriage has already been sprayed in single stage OMNI and will be masked. It's in the thread above in anybody is interested.

Thanks to all in advance!

Brad

[chops101]

Brad,
There are many ways to get there, but I suggest:

Stay with the same family product - Primer, BC, CC to avoid potential problems. Sure you can mix them up if you know what atmospheric windows to use and you have experienced it yourself, but why risk it when this stuff costs so much.

Whatever product you use for filler/ block, seal it up, reduce down your DP 2:1:1/2 and shoot two coats as a sealer.

Then

3 coats BC
4 coats CC, this will give you plenty material for wet sanding.

Cheers/Good Luck

[rlodad]

So all products from a paint and primer standpoint should be same family, but fillers from different company (slick Sand) are ok as long as sealed with DP on both sides? The ratio you gave is the high solids ratio for the DP if I remember correctly from the spec sheet.

Thanks again.

Brad

[HotRod47]

In my opinion.....

Dp is a great product for the bare metal as you have done.

Filler work: you have two options here and it really comes down to preference of the end user.

1: sand DP with 180 and apply filler as needed and do all body work at this point. Then after all done apply primer surfacer as a leveler and then block sand for paint.

2: sand the Dp with 180 grit sand paper. Not majorly aggressive as you don't want to break through, you just want to put a nice mechanical scratch in it for adhesion of the primer surfacer. Apply 3-5 coats of primer (K36, K38 , etc.) with proper flash times in between. Once fully cured block sand, then do filler work as needed. Once happy reapply surfacer. When applying K36-K38 at this point you can reduce it down a little so it will lay smoother. Not looking for a ton of build here as everything should be done and ready for final primer. If you are not happy after final blocking reapply primer one more time. The high end shops will do this three or more times for that laser straight look.

I would avoid anything like Slick Sand, or PPG's Poly primer. They are nothing more than sprayable body filler. Personally I am not a big fan. I have seen many failures.

I don't like DP as a sealer. It takes 7 days for full cure. The paint can die back or settle a few days after the paint job has been sprayed. I would rather use DAS series of sealer. It is designed to go with the Deltron paint system you are using.

Paint: Make sure your painter uses the DX57 activator in the base coat. Some guys just reduce and spray. The activator helps with adhesion and chip resistance.

Clear: 2002 and 2021 are both good clears. If the car is being painted in a booth I would suggest using the DCX9 hardener. It is the most durable and chip resistant of all the hardeners in that line. It is also the slowest, so in a booth with heat and air flow it will lay down really nice. Another option is to use the D8152 Glamour clear from the Global line. Like the name says, it is designed for high end cars like Lambo's and Ferrarri's as well as show cars. Very durable clear.

After clearing: I will sand the clear down and let the parts sit for several days. Then do all my sanding and buffing. This enables the solvents a chance to gas out. Now when you buff the car it will hold it's gloss completely.

Good luck,

Glenn

[rlodad]

In my opinion.....

Dp is a great product for the bare metal as you have done.

Filler work: you have two options here and it really comes down to preference of the end user.

1: sand DP with 180 and apply filler as needed and do all body work at this point. Then after all done apply primer surfacer as a leveler and then block sand for paint.

2: sand the Dp with 180 grit sand paper. Not majorly aggressive as you don't want to break through, you just want to put a nice mechanical scratch in it for adhesion of the primer surfacer. Apply 3-5 coats of primer (K36, K38 , etc.) with proper flash times in between. Once fully cured block sand, then do filler work as needed. Once happy reapply surfacer. When applying K36-K38 at this point you can reduce it down a little so it will lay smoother. Not looking for a ton of build here as everything should be done and ready for final primer. If you are not happy after final blocking reapply primer one more time. The high end shops will do this three or more times for that laser straight look.

I would avoid anything like Slick Sand, or PPG's Poly primer. They are nothing more than sprayable body filler. Personally I am not a big fan. I have seen many failures.

I don't like DP as a sealer. It takes 7 days for full cure. The paint can die back or settle a few days after the paint job has been sprayed. I would rather use DAS series of sealer. It is designed to go with the Deltron paint system you are using.

Paint: Make sure your painter uses the DX57 activator in the base coat. Some guys just reduce and spray. The activator helps with adhesion and chip resistance.

Clear: 2002 and 2021 are both good clears. If the car is being painted in a booth I would suggest using the DCX9 hardener. It is the most durable and chip resistant of all the hardeners in that line. It is also the slowest, so in a booth with heat and air flow it will lay down really nice. Another option is to use the D8152 Glamour clear from the Global line. Like the name says, it is designed for high end cars like Lambo's and Ferrarri's as well as show cars. Very durable clear.

After clearing: I will sand the clear down and let the parts sit for several days. Then do all my sanding and buffing. This enables the solvents a chance to gas out. Now when you buff the car it will hold it's gloss completely.

Good luck,

Glenn
Glenn,
thanks for the recommendations. What I don't understand is if you are going to use filler, and Slick Sand is just a spray able filler, then why not use it between dp and K38? Again, I am the body guy and painter. The car is essentially all new metal, and essentially just needs a skim coat for minor waves in the metal. Slick Sand seems a lot easier than skim coating most of the body with filler. If it is coated in DP epoxy below and K38 on top before BC/CC, why would it fail? Seems the same as dp over bare metal, filler, and K38 over filler before BC/CC.

Thanks again.
Brad

[snappytravis]

You can use body filler over dp, If the roof or hood is just wavey as heck slick sand may not be bad, I had my 69 to bare metal, Did all bodywork, then 2 coats of dp, let dry good, then went back with 3 coats k38, Blocked with 180 and reprimed with k38, blocked again. It is now pretty straight. When I get ready to paint I will block 1 more time and probably prime again, If you block it the final time with 400, then sand lightly with 500 you may be able to paint right over that depending on what color. Your best bet is to have you paint jobber print off P sheets for you that has all the product data as far as reduction, flash time, fluid nozzle size, topcoat over and under. When you buy your primer have them print it off and put it right on the bench for reference. I myself am not to crazy about slicksand. I used featherfill back 20 years ago and it was like sanding the concrete floor, If you have to skim the whole panel then block with 80 then prime, (boyds does it) good luck

[rlodad]

83700So, painted the Camaro over the weekend. Set up booth in double garage with filtered air. Shot DBC deltron LeMans blue base, Aluminum silver SS stripes, and 3 coats of 2021. WOW is that more work than I thought. Started Thursday 3 PM, finished Monday Morning, 3 am. Not bad if I must say so myself, though no good pics yet as car still in "booth" with airflow to gas off completely before I start cut and buff. Here's the best pic I could get at this stage. Will update later. Thanks to all for the help, you taught me a lot. If you need to know anything about eye surgery, that's my area of expertise- wish I could help more with cars!

[Evldoer]

Wow that looks pretty good. Can't wait to see some pics of it in the sun. Good Job!

[instro84]

Good job looks cool