ATTENTION WHEEL MANUFACTURES!! Is there anyone that makes an affordable Mesh Wheel?

[ryeguy2006a]

I have scoured the internet, our sponsors, this and other forums and coming up short. Is there any manufacturer that makes a 18"+ mesh style wheel that: 1)isn't for BMW(has the 5x4.75 or 5x120.65 PDC), 2)has a good offset/backspacing for most muscle cars and 3)is affordable for guys on a budget. And when I say budget, I mean I want to buy 4 rims for around $1,000 and not just one rim. I have seen so many threads about people looking for this exact product, and it seems weird that there isn't a company that is filling that need. I mean they are being produced in the BMW bolt patterns, so it can be that much more difficult for someone to tweak the designs for a slightly larger PDC.

This is so close to what I am looking for, other than the offset. These are around +60 offset, which means they are designed for Corvettes and newer F-body's. But they are an 18" wheel with a 5x120.65 PDC and they are around 1K for a set of four, plus this place offers free shipping. If they had a better offset they would be on their way to my house.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/nurburgring_gunmetal_pop_std_zpsfeed7749-1.jpg

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/wheels/tsw/size/bySize.do?wd=18&bp=5|120.65|4.75&rw=-1

I really want this style rim, but looks like unfortunately I am going to be sticking with the 5 spoke wheels that are readily available unless someone has a secret they are willing to share.

Ryan

[XLexusTech]

cheapest think is maybe 500.00 a rim... perhaps a set of Vette wheels can be had in your price range... other than that.. you SOL

[john55blaze]

I wonder how close you could get to running a set of the wheels that you have found with hardly any backspacing by running a "full width" rear end out of a larger car or maybe even a truck? A little math and some research might let you know if you could get in the ball park. Just a thought, unless you were looking to get a little more lip showing...

[Takid455]

Look at ADR. they have one similar. 4th gen guys use it. Offset may be an issue w/ 2nd gens. Workx has one too but that 250/ rim is tough to touch for what you want. Try looking at a used BBS RM or LC (?) 3pc rim. Again 1k is most likely not going to happen for a new set unfortunately.

Went through this when I did my car. This is a thread about it too in this section. After looking at 100's of rims, magazines, shows and years of debates, photoshops, I took it deep and went with the set that I was trying find a more economical solution to. I dont regret that decision. I know budgets, expenses, drug habit yada yada...sometimes you just need to go for it.

Best of luck on your search

[csouth]

I think the problem you're running into Ryan is that most of the mesh wheels are not designed with muscle cars in mind, but tuners or euros. If you can use the BMW pattern check out this out.... I know of a few sites because I have a VW as a second to my SUV. They are in your price range.

http://www.raderwerks.com/product/m-ten80-b
http://www.raderwerks.com/product/m-ten80-s

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/rw_wheel_mten80s-1.png

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/rw_wheel_blok7mb-1.png

[PRRC]

Heres what I'm using on my personal car. 702747027370275

[T_Raven]

Those TSW Nurburgrings are what I want to put on my 4th gen. I agree though, it's rediculous there are so few wheel choices in that price range with back spacing that will fit muscle cars. It seems like these companies are missing out on a huge customer base considering two or three offset choices would fit almost every GM car other than 4th gen fbodies

[LS1-IROC]

Unfortunately for that budget you will only be able to get cheap cast off-shore wheels. I would suggest you double your budget and then you could get into a mid-level welded 2 piece wheel in any config you desire. Spend the money once, and do it right...it's cheaper in the long run...trust me.

Another option would be to do the PCD correction on a set of BMW wheels.

[ryeguy2006a]

Another option would be to do the PCD correction on a set of BMW wheels.

That is probably what I will end up doing is getting a set of BMW wheels and correcting them for my car.

And it isn't that I don't have the money, it is that I would rather spend the 2k on wheels, and the other 2k on go fast parts. Rather than just 4k total on wheels. I will keep looking around.

[analyte]

There's always the option of getting your hubs and axles drilled with the BMW 5x120 along with the standard GM bolt spacing. That what's I did so I have the option going forward as I change my mind or upgrade

Kerry

[csouth]

That is probably what I will end up doing is getting a set of BMW wheels and correcting them for my car.

And it isn't that I don't have the money, it is that I would rather spend the 2k on wheels, and the other 2k on go fast parts. Rather than just 4k total on wheels. I will keep looking around.

Check the Raderwerks, they have sets at 1k or less. I would also do as Analyte suggestedand modify my bolt pattern if this is something you want long term.

[LS1-IROC]

That is probably what I will end up doing is getting a set of BMW wheels and correcting them for my car.

And it isn't that I don't have the money, it is that I would rather spend the 2k on wheels, and the other 2k on go fast parts. Rather than just 4k total on wheels. I will keep looking around.

Wait..you have $2K to spend on wheels? You can get into just about any welded 2 piece for that. I thought you only had $1K to work with. My old Bonspeeds were a fuzz over $2K shipped to my door.

[T_Raven]

I believe TSW wheels are spun forged, not just cheap cast wheels. There are other wheels in the same price range that are better construction than cheap cast wheels. If TSW can sell what is considered to be a light, strong 18" wheel for under $300, then there's no reason companies can't sell similar wheels with an offset that would fit pre 90s rwd cars

[GeoffP]

Hopefully some of our existing site sponsors will look at the view count! There is definitely a market for a lower cost PT wheel for muscle cars - not all of us can afford $1000 a wheel. That's why I'm shopping ZR1 reproduction wheels now...

[srh3trinity]

I bought a set of BMW wheels for my project and I was going to run adapters. I may still do that for mockup, but in the end I think i will go with CCW's. They are surprisingly reasonable but are north of 2k for a set. I want some width and lip and I have come to realize that is going to cost me.

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Foregstar F14s are very close @ about 1500 for a set.

[Johnny Blaze]

I went with Sterns for a BMW, but yeah, I hear ya.

[srh3trinity]

I think the problem is that pro touring is still a very small market compared to the rest of the Hot Rod and muscle car world. Most guys still want a torque thrust kind of wheel so that is what manufacturers produce.

[Todd in Vancouver]

Totally understand. I'm after a split 5 spoke like the Lateral-G but man it is a chunk of cash. Especially when you look at adding tires and getting them on the car. I'm going to be at a point soon in my build when I'm going to have to have them to set everything up. I just don't see how I can do it for under $6K?

[Wall]

You can always run spacers/adapters to make them work.

[FirstGenZq8]

one of the first to "get it": http://ctw-motorsports.com/

[BonzoHansen]

one of the first to "get it": http://ctw-motorsports.com/

I had lunch with Paul on Saturday. Nice guy. And he gets it and wants to expand his line.

[SRD art]

I'm on a really tight budget but want to go wider on my tires. I found these, which may be cheap offshore cheapies, but well, they're cheap. http://www.americanmuscle.com/black-deep-dish-fr500-wheel-17x10-5.html

They would require a bolt pattern change, but a 1" spacer would put them just about right where they need to be to be the correct offset for an older muscle car. Best part is you can easily find another wheel later on if you want to go back to the GM pattern and simply remove the adapters. I would think you could re-sell to the Mustang community and recover quite a bit of your investment. I'd imagine a 10.5" wheel would fit your wheel well just fine, but they do have 17x9s too.

They also have these if you don't mind jumping up to an 18"... http://www.americanmuscle.com/18x10-gt4-black.html

Just throwing ideas out there...

[chevyboy325]

American eagle makes a very nice and clean billet wheel http://www.aewheel.com/eagle_alloy_wheels.cfm?id=2148&cat=471
They are about 250 a wheel.

[ryeguy2006a]

That isn't a bad price, and is almost exactly what I am looking for. Looks like they only offer a 20" wheel though... I was looking for 18"

It is companies like this that let me know that it is possible. If they were made in 18" they would be one of the next things on my list of things to purchase.

[Barrrf]

Another option would be to do the PCD correction on a set of BMW wheels.

Sorry for my ignorance but what does this mean?

[ryeguy2006a]

I believe TSW wheels are spun forged, not just cheap cast wheels. There are other wheels in the same price range that are better construction than cheap cast wheels. If TSW can sell what is considered to be a light, strong 18" wheel for under $300, then there's no reason companies can't sell similar wheels with an offset that would fit pre 90s rwd cars
Exactly what was said here. And to boot, they are making the wheels with the same offset for BMW's, but the wrong bolt pattern. They wouldn't even need to remake the wheels, just slightly adjust for the 5x120.65 PCD


Hopefully some of our existing site sponsors will look at the view count! There is definitely a market for a lower cost PT wheel for muscle cars - not all of us can afford $1000 a wheel. That's why I'm shopping ZR1 reproduction wheels now...

That was the purpose of the thread. If you do a google search, there are so many threads that have been made with people searching for an affordable mesh style wheel for their muscle car. Someone could certainly capitalize on that void. I don't need a forged 3 piece wheel for my car as it will be a street machine.

[LS1-IROC]

Sorry for my ignorance but what does this mean?

Pitch circle diameter.

[Barrrf]

The difference between 120 and 120.65 is (obviously) only .65mm or .025" TOTAL which actually only half that on a bolt circle. If running hub centric, this isnt a problem (which we're not) but this small of a difference? Obviously to run BMW wheels we'd need some spacers - althought Im not sure how wide. Ive researched and found a few A bodies on BMW wheels. Anyways, that should open the door a bit.

[ryeguy2006a]

The difference between 120 and 120.65 is (obviously) only .65mm or .025" TOTAL which actually only half that on a bolt circle. If running hub centric, this isnt a problem (which we're not) but this small of a difference? Obviously to run BMW wheels we'd need some spacers - althought Im not sure how wide. Ive researched and found a few A bodies on BMW wheels. Anyways, that should open the door a bit.

I don't want to start a debate on this, but I have done plenty of research and I am not willing to take the risk of running an incorrect bolt pattern. To each their own, but I have too much blood, sweat and time invested into my car to risk it.

[Barrrf]

I don't want to start a debate on this, but I have done plenty of research and I am not willing to take the risk of running an incorrect bolt pattern. To each their own, but I have too much blood, sweat and time invested into my car to risk it.

I completely understand. I was looking at this from an MEs stand point. I also do not want to debate on it.

[Paul Huryk]

one of the first to "get it": http://ctw-motorsports.com/

As the owner of CTW Motorsports, I take that as the highest possible compliment from a group like this.

BonzoHansen had mentioned - we are working to expand our line beyond the 17" x 9.5" 3rd gen F-Bodies, 100% true. We have test fitted the wheels to the 2nd gen cars and they fit the rear no problem and even fit the front - if the car is not lowered much below stock height. We are looking into a 8.5" wheel to fit the front of lowered cars - and hopefully will fit the 1978 to 1987 G-body cars at the same time. We have a 4th gen solution on the board, but unfortunately not enough interest at this point to pull the trigger.

I'm new to this board, but will certainly be on here regularly.

[Rod]

good looking wheel Paul, when you make that 17 x 8.5" wheel let us know.... I would run those on the front is the back space 4.50"? and the 9.5 on the rear

[Paul Huryk]

good looking wheel Paul, when you make that 17 x 8.5" wheel let us know.... I would run those on the front is the back space 4.50"? and the 9.5 on the rear

Rod - thank you for the compliment!

We are planning on making an 8.5" wheel as mentioned earlier - good to know what BS will work. The 9.5" wheels have a 5.25" BS and it is possible to make them 8.75" with a 4.50" BS with minor adjustment at time of manufacture. 8.75" will fit with a 245 or 255 width tire.

[Rod]

Rod - thank you for the compliment!

We are planning on making an 8.5" wheel as mentioned earlier - good to know what BS will work. The 9.5" wheels have a 5.25" BS and it is possible to make them 8.75" with a 4.50" BS with minor adjustment at time of manufacture. 8.75" will fit with a 245 or 255 width tire.

keep me in the loop! I have front 17x8 rims right now with 4.50 BS and zero off set, with 255/40-17 Falken rt615k....a 17x8.5 front would be an easy fit on my camaro.......the rear 17x9.5 are 5.5" back spacing with 275/40-17 Falken rt615k

[T_Raven]

I think the problem is that pro touring is still a very small market compared to the rest of the Hot Rod and muscle car world. Most guys still want a torque thrust kind of wheel so that is what manufacturers produce.

I think the market is pretty big, we're not just talking pro-touring cars from the 60s and early 70s, but pretty much everything with a 5x4.75 bolt pattern that's not a 4th gen fbody or vette. I know TT style wheels are popular but I bet a lot of guys running them bought them for the price as much as anything. If there were more options in the same price range and people knew about them, they would sell.

[T_Raven]

Hopefully some of our existing site sponsors will look at the view count! There is definitely a market for a lower cost PT wheel for muscle cars - not all of us can afford $1000 a wheel. That's why I'm shopping ZR1 reproduction wheels now...

I think the exact problem we're talking about here is why so many people have vette wheels. I'm putting c6 wheels on my 89 but mostly only because I got them for $500, though they are the only vette wheel i think looks good on a third gen. Even though I'm using vette wheels I'm so freaking sick of seeing them. If you look at the wheels thread on thirdgen.org almost everyone is running vette wheels.

[GeoffP]

Traven - you hit my point exactly. The proof is what is actually out there on the street everyday. The market is already there - it's just that no one has capitalized on it yet. There is a HUGE gap between the entry level custom wheels and the full custom wheel market.

I'm sure there are more than a few who would disagree with this next statement but I'm going to say it anyway. I think if Frank Serafine had not come on bad times financially (and kept his business practices clean and proper) that Prodigy Customs would've already started production on an affordable wheel line. This is one area where Frank excelled - he recognized the nitch (sp?) market and filled the need. The unfortunate is that there are so many good vendors still afloat who could fill this need but aren't willing to take the risk thanks to the crappy economy.

Props to CTW Motorsports for giving it a try! I hope you guys have much success! Now how about a mesh style wheel to fit 60's and 70's muscle in 17" and 18" ranging from 8" wide to 11"??? :)

[Paul Huryk]

Props to CTW Motorsports for giving it a try! I hope you guys have much success! Now how about a mesh style wheel to fit 60's and 70's muscle in 17" and 18" ranging from 8" wide to 11"??? :)

The problem with mesh style wheels is the brake caliper face to rear of wheel spoke clearance. This is something that isn't a problem with say an C5 conversion, but will be a major issue with 4 or 6 piston calipers. Plus you are talking 1 piece semi forged wheels that need a new set of dies for each size, max width of which may be limited by machinery (ours are limited to 10" width as an example). Big investment in time (takes 2 months to complete a set of dies, plus the cost) and inventory in stock to do a low cost alternative honestly. Even some reproduction wheel manufacturers only offer two or three size options due to inventory concerns.

That is where the expensive 3pc forged wheel companies make a pretty good business - they mix and match outer and inner parts, plus the center hub to create a wheel of practically any width or offset. But $4k+ a set is a lot of coin - and you still need tires too.

[LS1-IROC]

Speaking of 3 piece wheels...why couldn't a fellow forge or cast just the centers? Then add inner and outer hoops to what ever the customer desired? You could have one "universal" center and any combo of hoops. Hoops are not that expensive....just thinking out loud here..maybe it's already being done by someone?

[jpgolf14]

Speaking of 3 piece wheels...why couldn't a fellow forge or cast just the centers? Then add inner and outer hoops to what ever the customer desired? You could have one "universal" center and any combo of hoops. Hoops are not that expensive....just thinking out loud here..maybe it's already being done by someone?

I think that is actually already being done by some of the more suspicious 3pc wheel manufacturers. It definitely makes a lot of sense to really research these companies before buying 3pc wheels.

With that said, I do like your idea and I think as long as you are honest with the fact that they are cast, you could do quite well. You would still be well over $1k a set though. Just think about the cost of 160 stainless fasteners to hold the wheels together. Right there is $200 bare minimum.

By the way, Paul's wheel are very nice and have excellent brake clearance.

Hi Paul, its John.

14" rotors with 4 and 6 piston brakes on a 17" wheel!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/8219447304_80f1670d8c_h-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/8194029977_d600441b3d_h-1.jpg

[LS1-IROC]

Yep...I see your point..however, you could save a bit on fasteners as well...they don't have to be stainless...mine aren't. If a company could do a set of 3 peice wheels for anything under $1500 I think they would sell like hot cakes....as long as you were honest with your customers about your product. I'd buy em. I spent almost 3 times that amount for my wheels, not so much for the strength, but to get the fitments that I wanted....and the look.

[ryeguy2006a]

Yep...I see your point..however, you could save a bit on fasteners as well...they don't have to be stainless...mine aren't. If a company could do a set of 3 peice wheels for anything under $1500 I think they would sell like hot cakes....as long as you were honest with your customers about your product. I'd buy em. I spent almost 3 times that amount for my wheels, not so much for the strength, but to get the fitments that I wanted....and the look.

100% Agree. I am buying the wheels for looks more than function. I don't plan on taking corners at high speeds, just primarily on the highways and such. Not to say I will never take a windy back road every now and then.

Someone has to have something.

[ryeguy2006a]

Almost 1000 view's in a little over a week. Maybe some wheel manufactures need to check out this thread.

[Paul Huryk]

Speaking of 3 piece wheels...why couldn't a fellow forge or cast just the centers? Then add inner and outer hoops to what ever the customer desired? You could have one "universal" center and any combo of hoops. Hoops are not that expensive....just thinking out loud here..maybe it's already being done by someone?

This is easily done - you would only need one center per wheel diameter and can use front and rear hoops. I would think they would be forged as cast material has a harder time with threaded bolts not pulling through than forged. But - one piece forged wheels are as strong as you can get - 3 piece (or 2pc) are plenty strong, but not the top of the heap. It is also a lot cheaper to manufacture 3pc wheels than 1pc too - something like 25% less or something.

[GTOtzel]

Eagle Alloy Series 227 are really nice. They only come in 20's tho. I emailed them to see if they'll be making them in 18's. Maybe if they get more requests for them in 18??? who knows.

[jpgolf14]

Yep...I see your point..however, you could save a bit on fasteners as well...they don't have to be stainless...mine aren't. If a company could do a set of 3 peice wheels for anything under $1500 I think they would sell like hot cakes....as long as you were honest with your customers about your product. I'd buy em. I spent almost 3 times that amount for my wheels, not so much for the strength, but to get the fitments that I wanted....and the look.

Yup agreed. I guess you could use something like a zinc plated fastener, although its probably not something I would do as a manufacturer.

The other thing to think about is the back pad thickness. Do you really want to settle on a single thickness? That eliminates a lot of the customizability of 3pc wheels. The beauty of casting is after you pay for the mold, each wheel isn't expensive. But now if you have several different castings for back pad and different spoke designs, costs go up fast.

The other thing is you have to pay someone to assemble the wheels. That is 160 fasteners per set, each one torqued. They you have to seal the halves.

I'm not saying it couldn't work, but for $1500/set you are probably looking at 1 spoke design, 1 back pad thickness, 1 or 2 color options.

[jpgolf14]

This is easily done - you would only need one center per wheel diameter and can use front and rear hoops. I would think they would be forged as cast material has a harder time with threaded bolts not pulling through than forged. But - one piece forged wheels are as strong as you can get - 3 piece (or 2pc) are plenty strong, but not the top of the heap. It is also a lot cheaper to manufacture 3pc wheels than 1pc too - something like 25% less or something.

Agreed. Other options include using exposed hardware with nuts on the back, or Heli-coils. Heli-coils would get labor intensive.

[LS1-IROC]

Maybe only offer through bolts and come up with a clever modular back pad thickness spacer.

[howehot]

I run XXR 521's, 18x8.5 front and 18x10 rear. Cost was at $500 for the set. I then sent the rears to Weldcraft wheel and had then widen to 12". Jeff Schwartz has run XXRs for some time with zero issues. They have taken everything I've put them through.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/20121104_144717_339-1.jpg

[campindog]

I thought it was funny when I saw this thread. Last year I started out looking at Forgline and Jongbloed wheels for my mustang, but since I didn't have $20k in paint, I ended up with the TSW's in the first post.

[Paul Huryk]

John,

The issue is that to make 3 piece wheels in different sizes you need a lot of parts - each wheel diameter is going to use different hoops and center sections - not to mention pad heights and other things. Then you multiply it by the number of wheel diameters and you get a warehouse full of inventory.

I also wonder if the big guys like HRE, Forgeline, Jongbloed and the like have their own foundries as you are talking another warehouse full of wheel molds to make the pieces too (plus wheel forging machines) - a 3rd party would charge a lot for setup and breakdown time for short runs.

My manufacturer recently offered me the ability to produce 1pc forged wheels in practically any style for an estimated street price of around $2600 a set, about $650 each. Problem is that you have to make a different wheel for each application with different specs - not to mention a tool and die cost as well. Definitely not our of the question for CTW Motorsports to do this, but the applications must have a large enough market to do so.

[Barrrf]

I thought it was funny when I saw this thread. Last year I started out looking at Forgline and Jongbloed wheels for my mustang, but since I didn't have $20k in paint, I ended up with the TSW's in the first post.

now that is nice - I thought pretty hard about TSW Nurburgrings but am not sure how my car would look without some sort of lip on the wheel.

[jpgolf14]

John,

The issue is that to make 3 piece wheels in different sizes you need a lot of parts - each wheel diameter is going to use different hoops and center sections - not to mention pad heights and other things. Then you multiply it by the number of wheel diameters and you get a warehouse full of inventory.

I also wonder if the big guys like HRE, Forgeline, Jongbloed and the like have their own foundries as you are talking another warehouse full of wheel molds to make the pieces too (plus wheel forging machines) - a 3rd party would charge a lot for setup and breakdown time for short runs.

My manufacturer recently offered me the ability to produce 1pc forged wheels in practically any style for an estimated street price of around $2600 a set, about $650 each. Problem is that you have to make a different wheel for each application with different specs - not to mention a tool and die cost as well. Definitely not our of the question for CTW Motorsports to do this, but the applications must have a large enough market to do so.

Yup no doubt.

I do know some of the big boys including HRE buy the forgings from an aluminum forge in S. California. I did my research before I went with the HREs and was satisfied with their suppliers. The supplier also handled aerospace forging projects for some of the big boys. I suspect if you look real hard, probably most if not all of the true USA forged/built 3pc wheels have exactly the same center cross section and the forging that from the same place. As you point out, its not easy to get in that game.

Here is a picture of my centers as they come from the supplier.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/6924965725_1f41b1cdfc_b-1.jpg

[ryeguy2006a]

I run XXR 521's, 18x8.5 front and 18x10 rear. Cost was at $500 for the set. I then sent the rears to Weldcraft wheel and had then widen to 12". Jeff Schwartz has run XXRs for some time with zero issues. They have taken everything I've put them through.



I take it those are the 5*120 bolt pattern?

[howehot]

I take it those are the 5*120 bolt pattern?

Yes, 5-120

[MrQuick]

I think that is actually already being done by some of the more suspicious 3pc wheel manufacturers. It definitely makes a lot of sense to really research these companies before buying 3pc wheels.

With that said, I do like your idea and I think as long as you are honest with the fact that they are cast, you could do quite well. You would still be well over $1k a set though. Just think about the cost of 160 stainless fasteners to hold the wheels together. Right there is $200 bare minimum.

By the way, Paul's wheel are very nice and have excellent brake clearance.

Hi Paul, its John.

14" rotors with 4 and 6 piston brakes on a 17" wheel!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/8219447304_80f1670d8c_h-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/8194029977_d600441b3d_h-1.jpg

I knew that padio table looked familliar on the CTW website. what are the weights on these John?

[jpgolf14]

I knew that padio table looked familliar on the CTW website. what are the weights on these John?

On my scale the wheels are 20lbs 4oz with the center caps. The CTW website says 20lbs 4.4oz. Close enough for me. :)

Just to be clear, I am not CTW, however I have met Paul in person and he is a stand up guy. I did take the pictures I linked, as I was testing my brake kits on his wheels.

John

[Barrrf]

So this thread got my wheels spinning. At my job Im surrounded by CNCs - 4,5,6 axis. Sometimes they sit idle. Im not too far down the chain of command that I think I may be able to talk the bosses into letting me use the down time. So I fired up google to search for wheel blanks, billlets, ect. I found A LOT of motorcycle wheel blanks but very very few auto blanks - at least here in the states. What I did find was 47 million or so Chinese forging manufacturers selling container loads for $25 - $100 a piece. (Lets not debate the quality).

I dont expect the billet wheel mfgs to give our their sources but does anyone know where I can get wheel blanks? That would be a cool custom touch to a car - "whered you get those wheels?" "Oh I designed and had them machined where I work".

[jpgolf14]

So this thread got my wheels spinning. At my job Im surrounded by CNCs - 4,5,6 axis. Sometimes they sit idle. Im not too far down the chain of command that I think I may be able to talk the bosses into letting me use the down time. So I fired up google to search for wheel blanks, billlets, ect. I found A LOT of motorcycle wheel blanks but very very few auto blanks - at least here in the states. What I did find was 47 million or so Chinese forging manufacturers selling container loads for $25 - $100 a piece. (Lets not debate the quality).

I dont expect the billet wheel mfgs to give our their sources but does anyone know where I can get wheel blanks? That would be a cool custom touch to a car - "whered you get those wheels?" "Oh I designed and had them machined where I work".

You can probably figure it out with the information I provided and some digging on the net.

Just be aware of the consequences of your design and manufacturing methods. I would not build a wheel without first doing a structural analysis. With that said, I think this would be an awesome project.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/6523035885_cdd348d836_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/6523035889_b6fb7570d1_b-1.jpg

[Barrrf]

Thats nice.......it doesnt look like Solidworks or Inventor - is it Pro-E? I currently work in Inventor Pro and have Ansys for analysis.

I was thinking about just going the billet route. Those appear to be 2 piece?

[jpgolf14]

Thats nice.......it doesnt look like Solidworks or Inventor - is it Pro-E? I currently work in Inventor Pro and have Ansys for analysis.

I was thinking about just going the billet route. Those appear to be 2 piece?

It is Catia.

They are 3pc. I have an exploded view somewhere. Half the bolts are visible and the other half go the opposite direction.

John

[Hugger67RSSS]

John, are you making those wheels? If so pm me some info if you don't want it posted here.

Thanks

[srh3trinity]

You can probably figure it out with the information I provided and some digging on the net.

Just be aware of the consequences of your design and manufacturing methods. I would not build a wheel without first doing a structural analysis. With that said, I think this would be an awesome project.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/6523035885_cdd348d836_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/6523035889_b6fb7570d1_b-1.jpg

I think a wheel like that would sell very well if you got it going. But the testing and R&D would drive the price up. I am sure if Rushforth or the Formula 43 guys would chime in they could speak to some of the factors that make a custom wheel cost what they cost. And for the record, I think that Rushforth's and the 43's are pretty reasonable for custom offsets, colors, etc and both have some very good designs. However, if just one major manufacturer (American Racing, Boss, etc) came out with an affordable design that wasn't a Torque Thrust style, i think it would do well. Doesn't seem like too much to ask.

[Barrrf]

American Racing has A LOT of wheels to choose from - none of them are mesh style. And exactly 0 of them come in a 19" variant.

Kind of why I want to make my own - BUT if I slam into a pothole and goose egg the wheel - damn.

[ryeguy2006a]

You can probably figure it out with the information I provided and some digging on the net.

Just be aware of the consequences of your design and manufacturing methods. I would not build a wheel without first doing a structural analysis. With that said, I think this would be an awesome project.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/6523035885_cdd348d836_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/6523035889_b6fb7570d1_b-1.jpg

If someone could make a wheel like this for around 250-300 per wheel I think that people would eat them up. I know I would. Like I said in the first post, I don't need top quaility wheels. I want that look, and not necessarily the function. I won't be road racing, so I don't need a fully billet wheel. Nice rendering jpgolf14.

[jpgolf14]

Unfortunately no, I am not producing them. I just desigend those to play around with designs before I bought wheels for my own vehicle. I think it would be a really fun business. But I don't see how I could undercut prices significantly compared to the big 3pc wheel companies. They are a ton of money but that is because they cost a ton of money to produce.

Here is how I see it. One cnc machine big enough to cut centers would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $40-$60k. How many sets of $4k wheels would you have to sell to recoup that? There are likely several hours of machine time to cut one center. I'd be surprised if you could cut more than 2-3 centers per day per machine. So you probably need more than one machine.

On top of material costs.
160 SS bolts - probably $100-$150
barrels - probably $100ea, so there is $800
center forgings - boy its hard to guess, I'll go with $200 ea, so there is another $800
Now some guy needs to install and torque 160 bolts - $50
Center cap - $5-$20 each depending how fancy, call it $10 each, so $40

If I'm doing all this work, I think its unlikely I would save a few bucks here and there using non-stainless hardware or cast centers. To me the big cost is the machines and machine time. Switching to cast centers from china might reduce the total cost by about $500 or so. To me that is not worth it for wheels that are that expensive.

Anyway, I didn't mean to get on the soapbox. However I can see why 3pc wheels cost as much as they do. There is a lot of variability in the design.

[Barrrf]

Which is why cast wheels are so cheap. Patterns are relatively cheap to make - I used to do it with red board and wood. Aluminum castings are pretty cheap - even for this size. I wonder if theyre sand cast?

But what about billets? someone has to have Preformed billets that just need finishing.

[Wall]

http://www.customwheelsexpress.com/custom-wheels-by-brand-privat-privat-legende-matte-graphite-custom-wheels-rims-p-771.html?mpn=50MG-LE8N520356&gclid=CM2Mje_-kbUCFQY5nAodcAwAgw


Privat Legende. These are not a mesh wheel but they look pretty good and are cheap (yes probably cheap made too). Plus you would need spacers/adapters to get the backspacing right.

70807

[ljl396]

Chris Coddington seems to have the best deals right now on mesh. But you have to call to discuss price. still going to be around 650 a piece though. There cheaper if you dont need over 10" wide in the 18's. I've made lots of calls in the last month. Now I'm staring to get call back with better pricing. Just put your name out there.

[Barrrf]

I know it was discussed earlier that 5x120 wasnt going to be an option for some people but for others - maybe try audiocityusa.com? They have a pretty huge selection of 5x120 - even in mesh. I have not ever dealt with this company though they have been around for awhile. Ive found some info that says they are a legit company and some good feedback. They have only one complaint logged on the BBB. They also welcome local pickup (california).

[srh3trinity]

http://www.customwheelsexpress.com/custom-wheels-by-brand-privat-privat-legende-matte-graphite-custom-wheels-rims-p-771.html?mpn=50MG-LE8N520356&gclid=CM2Mje_-kbUCFQY5nAodcAwAgw


Privat Legende. These are not a mesh wheel but they look pretty good and are cheap (yes probably cheap made too). Plus you would need spacers/adapters to get the backspacing right.

70807

I have a set of those in my garage. For an off the shelf wheel, they are very nicely made/finished. They are made by Konig as their upscale line. I was going to run them as rollers and then for a little while waiting to save money for a custom set of wheels. Now that I am running an aftermarket subframe, they will probably go on my G8 which is 5x120.

[Paul Huryk]

Which is why cast wheels are so cheap. Patterns are relatively cheap to make - I used to do it with red board and wood. Aluminum castings are pretty cheap - even for this size. I wonder if theyre sand cast?

But what about billets? someone has to have Preformed billets that just need finishing.

Cast wheels are cheap due to the lack of time, labor, and machinery to make them. As an example, a distributor was soliciting me last summer to sell their cheap knock-off cast 16" IROC wheels that would retail for $450 a set... They got them from a manufacturer in China who was probably pumping them out in the thousands per week, not to mention they were not DOT approved and there was no warranty. Almost definitely sand cast in this case...

My manufacturer offers billet blanks that can be machined down into any size or pattern. The raw material is reasonably priced, but the real killer is machining cost - a CNC machine capable of wheel sized objects is an easy $150K investment - so the hourly charge to run it is quite high and pushes the cost to an estimated $1k each - unless it is a very simple pattern. They come in pretty heavy too.

[LS1-IROC]

$450 a set..holy cow that's scary cheap. Probably most of the "IROC" wheels you see on ebay are the same junk.

[Barrrf]

I can imagine the amount of material that comes off a billet. It would basically be a solid barrel. Im betting machine time is up there. 4-5 hours of roughing and another hour for finishing maybe?

[Paul Huryk]

$450 a set..holy cow that's scary cheap. Probably most of the "IROC" wheels you see on ebay are the same junk.

I found 2 major issues with the wheels - first they are made as cheap as possible and are not DOT approved; second, there are no real tire choices in the stock 245-50-16 size.

I'm 99% sure they are the same wheels. The funny part was that the cost for a set was around $300 shipped from China to my shop in NJ. Very cheap indeed!

[Paul Huryk]

I can imagine the amount of material that comes off a billet. It would basically be a solid barrel. Im betting machine time is up there. 4-5 hours of roughing and another hour for finishing maybe?

Check out the billet wheel blank on the upper left of this FB photo - that is what they look like before machining!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=494639960567559&set=pb.408976075800615.-2207520000.1359749308&type=3&theater

I would have to inquire about the machining time involved, but it probably would be in that ballpark. I think the blank was about 125lbs - made the shelf pretty rickety with it on top...

[durtyburd71]

Has anybody mentionedthe tsw valencia ,looks like a 3pc mesh wheel .not a bad price either .I was going to get a set but I got a killer deal on the wheels I have now.

[durtyburd71]

http://www.tsw.com/alloy_wheels_valencia_5.php try this.

[srh3trinity]

http://www.tsw.com/alloy_wheels_valencia_5.php.....try this.

That is a nice looking design. It doesn't come in a 5x4.75 BP though. So, one would either have to be OK with running 5x120's or run adapters.

[durtyburd71]

yea ,your right about the 5/120 vs. 5/4.75(120.6) its close but i guess its all what they feel ok with running ... my wheels are the 5/114-5/4.5 ford pattern (5 lug swap fox body) ...but it was just a thought ... xxr makes nice wheels also ..any ways good luck with the search...

[ryeguy2006a]

That is a nice looking design. It doesn't come in a 5x4.75 BP though. So, one would either have to be OK with running 5x120's or run adapters.

That is the big problem. What I am going to look into is getting my front hubs and rear axles redrilled for the BMW bolt pattern. That way it will open up my selection and won't have to worry about running an adapter. Not sure what the cost would be, but I am sure a good machine shop could do that.

[csouth]

That is the big problem. What I am going to look into is getting my front hubs and rear axles redrilled for the BMW bolt pattern. That way it will open up my selection and won't have to worry about running an adapter. Not sure what the cost would be, but I am sure a good machine shop could do that.

I second that thought. Most of the inexpensive wheels that look nice are drilled on the BMW bolt pattern.

[Barrrf]

BEFORE you get drilled though - you'll probably have to run spacers/adapters anyways because ALL of the BMW wheels Ive seen have at MOST 62mm BS. So why not just get your 1.5"/2" adapter to go from 4.75 to 120mm? Having said that, I need to shoot for 4.5" BS in front and 5.5"BS in back - not sure about other cars though.

[srh3trinity]

That is the big problem. What I am going to look into is getting my front hubs and rear axles redrilled for the BMW bolt pattern. That way it will open up my selection and won't have to worry about running an adapter. Not sure what the cost would be, but I am sure a good machine shop could do that.
From what I have seen, you will run into BS issues as has been mentioned. That is unless you have an aftermarket subframe and re-do your rear axle. If you get to that point, you have paid for custom wheels with those upgrades. I was going to run adapters until I ordered a C5/6 subframe. Now, I think I will pretty much have to run custom wheels, so I might as well order up a narrowed axle for the rear. I am having a hard time beating CCW's for full custom backspace. Weld has a series of 5 spokes and split 5 spokes with numerous different BS options. Not a mesh wheel though. http://weldracing.com/street-performance/rts-18-inch.html

[carguykeith]

The best I could find was ET15 from Beyern wich workes out to a 5.4" and a 5.8" for the 8.5 and 9.5 wide rims respectively.

I would have bought a 5x4.75 wheel if a set would have been available for anywhere near the price. I got mine delivered to Alaska for just over $1000 total (as in all 4 wheels).

This may or may not be necessary, but if you feel the .026" difference in PCD is too much than here is a great solution:

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/wheels-tires/646545-bmw-wheel-bolt-pattern.html

Still can't beleive a mfg couldn't make some good money on some 18x8, 18x9 and 18x10's with a 0ET for around $250 and wheel...

[srh3trinity]

I think 5 and 7 series have the most favorable offsets if you redrill or run them straight up. 3 series if you want room for an adapter.

[GeoffP]

If Beyern made wider wheels I would buy them in a second. I'd even consider Ford racing wheels if the offsets were right since my Wilwood hubs are drilled for 5-4.5 as well as 5-4.75.

[Todd in Vancouver]

Happen to stumble across these on line and while not what I am after these may help out somebody else and the sizes and price are some if the best I've seen yet just in case nobody else has already posted this.

http://www.customwheelsexpress.com/custom-wheels-by-brand-american-racing-american-racing-vn472-472-burnout-black-polished-custom-rims-wheels-p-850.html

[Bandit80]

Is this what ur looking for? This is a mesh like wheel for decent price without any spacers or mods. What you guys think?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=centerline+lazer+wheels&oq=centerline+lazer&gs_l=img.1.0.0i24l2.182668.188553.0.189753.16.14.0 .2.2.0.236.1525.7j6j1.14.0...0.0...1ac.1.6.img.4oK LLwUbr9I&biw=768&bih=928&sei=uDxEUY3pErPlyAGvyoHQAg#

http://www.hotrodhanks.com/products/wheels/searchType/searchByBrand/manufacturerID/252/productID/6749

[Bandit80]

Aren't what you are looking for are something like these? These have that mesh look to them...

http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/center-line-wheels-legend-series-lazer-ii-polished-wheels


A google image
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=centerline+lazer+wheels&biw=768&bih=928&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=XqREUbraGsjYywG7s4C4Aw#biv=i%7C3%3Bd%7CTTKqq61t BttNLM%3A

What do you guys think?

[67CamNKC]

I like the Centerline Lazer. Do we have a member or a sponsor that reps their wheels (or packages)? Anyone had any bad experiences with their wheels?

[ryeguy2006a]

Is this what ur looking for? This is a mesh like wheel for decent price without any spacers or mods. What you guys think?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=centerline+lazer+wheels&oq=centerline+lazer&gs_l=img.1.0.0i24l2.182668.188553.0.189753.16.14.0 .2.2.0.236.1525.7j6j1.14.0...0.0...1ac.1.6.img.4oK LLwUbr9I&biw=768&bih=928&sei=uDxEUY3pErPlyAGvyoHQAg#

http://www.hotrodhanks.com/products/wheels/searchType/searchByBrand/manufacturerID/252/productID/6749

Those actually aren't bad at all. I may look into those. Thanks for posting!

[jhail010]

Did you check with TSW to see if they offer different offset sizes? I pretty sure i've seen them range from +20, +35, +40, and +60 in offset. These are about 270$ a piece in 18x10.5. you could also checkout Forgestar as they are similar in quality and price, and offer a range of custom options.Some thing along the lines of the F14? I plan on going the same route with my Javelin as they seem to be decently cost effective wheels for mild track use.

[Rhino]

I'm using TSW londrinas on my '68 currently. They are 5x120, but as others have stated, I'll end up redrilling for the proper pattern if I use them much after mockup. I have a c5 based sub and using +45mm front offset and +20mm in the rear.

I've used TSW a few times and my results have varied. Ultimately they're great cheap wheels that come in a great size/backspace range, but be prepared to move if you find some you like. Wait too long and you won't find them in your size/offset. If they're "backordered" be prepared to wait. They seem to have a minimum production run for some wheels. Once they put in the run, the castings come from China. It's one heck of a slow ride to get here. It took 8 months to get the last set I ordered.

[no go nova]

I feel your pain I was looking at tsw wheels because they were afordable. Hope they make this in a ford pattern, pan to convert my nova for more wheel choices. But I wanna know how much these cheaper 1 piece wheels weight compared to a two piece three piece wheel.

[67-LS1]

Bringing this thread back from the dead....
I just put Beyern Black Mesh wheels on my 1966 Chevelle. 17x8 in the front and 18x9.5 in the rear.
They fit perfect imho. I went with 30 mm offset front and rear and then used 30 mm spacers that changed the bolt pattern from 120 mm to 120.65 mm. They are hub centric to both the Wilwood brakes and the wheels.
So now the wheels are perfectly centered, ie, the same as if i ordered 17x8 wheels with 4.5 bs or the 18x9.5 with 5.25 bs, but way less mula.
Wheels and spacers w/o tires were right at $1000 delivered.
I will take some pics when I get to the shop tomorrow or Monday.

[jrps13]

Update? pics?


Bringing this thread back from the dead....
I just put Beyern Black Mesh wheels on my 1966 Chevelle. 17x8 in the front and 18x9.5 in the rear.
They fit perfect imho. I went with 30 mm offset front and rear and then used 30 mm spacers that changed the bolt pattern from 120 mm to 120.65 mm. They are hub centric to both the Wilwood brakes and the wheels.
So now the wheels are perfectly centered, ie, the same as if i ordered 17x8 wheels with 4.5 bs or the 18x9.5 with 5.25 bs, but way less mula.
Wheels and spacers w/o tires were right at $1000 delivered.
I will take some pics when I get to the shop tomorrow or Monday.

[Johnny Blaze]

Problem with those cheap BMW type wheels is they are heavy. I had some for my camaro RPM brand, looked great, fit with no spacers, but

18x8.5 with no tire was 36lbs!

Sold them and bought racestars. 17x9.5 14lbs!

That's a weight difference you will feel on acceleration!

[jrps13]

yes this is entirely true


Problem with those cheap BMW type wheels is they are heavy. I had some for my camaro RPM brand, looked great, fit with no spacers, but

18x8.5 with no tire was 36lbs!

Sold them and bought racestars. 17x9.5 14lbs!

That's a weight difference you will feel on acceleration!

[HELLCAMINO]

I got TSW Valencia wheels for my Chevelle in 18x9.5. I will need to run a hub centric spacer for the rear, but the fronts fit fine. They are 5x120 but have hub centric rings to center it from 76mm wheel to 70.3 hub. I'm not sure if I like them for sure on the Chevelle? They might end up on Hellcamino in the future, cause I like the TSW Rascasse better.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/CAM01236_zpscb53aa81-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/tsw_zpszq2rvkk3-1.jpg

[DaviRotten]

Is stay away from tsw .. I got into a wreck when I was a kid and I shattered all 4 of mine they where some 7-8 bared rims one of the wheels outer rings separated from the spokes and flew off ! But I was doing 70mph + and did hit a police Tahoe so take it for what ever lol

[HELLCAMINO]

Is stay away from tsw .. I got into a wreck when I was a kid and I shattered all 4 of mine they where some 7-8 bared rims one of the wheels outer rings separated from the spokes and flew off ! But I was doing 70mph + and did hit a police Tahoe so take it for what ever lol

And that is TSW's fault how?
I don't think very many wheel companies would back up that type of abuse.

[ryeguy2006a]

Looks like these wheels could have some potential. They are reproduction 80's GTA wheels that are 17" x 9" and have a 5.5" backspacing. I'm sure not everyone will like them, but it is a cheap mesh wheel that should fit bigger brakes.

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/gta-mesh-wheel-set-of-4-17-x-9-black-reproduction/

[camarodude87]

Bump looking for a decent mesh wheel for my 1969 camaro.

[Anthony k]

Looks like these wheels could have some potential. They are reproduction 80's GTA wheels that are 17" x 9" and have a 5.5" backspacing. I'm sure not everyone will like them, but it is a cheap mesh wheel that should fit bigger brakes.

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/gta-mesh-wheel-set-of-4-17-x-9-black-reproduction/


that is NOT affordable! damn!

[Anthony k]

Bump looking for a decent mesh wheel for my 1969 camaro.



me too. the tsw rassche or whatever might be it. or the snetterton