Mil spec wire crimpers?

[Jim Nilsen]

Does anyone out there have a set of wire crimpers for mil spec connectors that they would like to rent? They cost over $300 plus and for a one time deal it is a bit much.

If I purchased a set would anyone be interested in renting them in the future to help make it more feasable to purchase them?

The whole setup with connectors to do it like the Mule is done is aroung $600 if anyone was wondering.

Maybe we could all make a GP that works the other way, where everyone gets to use one item LOL.

Thanks for the number Charlie.

Jim Nilsen

[sinned]

Jim, post a link to what you are looking at.

[parsonsj]

I know I'll be doing some serious wiring soon too. Let's see that link.

jp

[JamesD]

Heres the place:

http://www.wiresandpliers.com/

Heres an email I got from them regarding the ITT-cannon mil spec connector that is used for the mules main engine wiring harness (the one that goes through the firewall):

James,
Yes I can sell you connectors. You'll need 2 connectors ( Male & Female), 2 Backshells and 2 boots. Cost is, Connectors $160.00 ( $80.00 each), Backshells $60.00 ( $30.00 each) and Boots $60.00 ( $30.00 each). Total Cost $280.00
The biggest part of this deal is the crimp pliers needed to crimp the pins for the connectors. The pins are barrel type and need a special crimp tool, they are made by Daniels Manufacturing, they cost anywhere from $300 to $350. Unless you have a set of these crimpers, in that case you'll be all set
Let me know
Sparky
(810) 229-9688

Here's a picture of the connector:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I've seen the correct wire crimpers pop-up on ebay every now and then.

[rolandska]

Any body happen to know the pin configuration of the plug, cause I'm a cheap bastage and refuse to believe that is as cheap as you can find them. I have no problem with anyone making a profit or a living, just don't want it to be from each and everyone of us.

[derekf]

There are all sorts of configurations. I believe I've got a couple laying around somewhere - one's like 6 or 8 big pins, and the other is 20 or 30 small pins. I don't doubt that they can get you exactly the number of pins you're needing in whatever combination of size and count you need.

I imagine if you could find a military salvage yard (I think there was one covered on a recent episode of "Trucks!") you could pick up a used connector a lot cheaper than that. You wouldn't need a pin crimper that way, either - it'd have wires already attached.

[JamesD]

Those ITT-Cannon plugs are about the best you can get. You can get that same style of connector by a company called Ampseal. they sell them at Digi-key. You have to know exactly what you want because there are literally thousands of configurations for those plugs. They are a bit less expensice. I have plenty of the 10 pin connectors laying around, but for an efi wiring harness you would need more pins. Also you can get them in a solder on pin, that way you do not need the $300 crimper to connect the wires. Here's an example of the stuff you can get from amp:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/10-sets-of-35-PIN-MALE-FEMALE-AMPHENOL-PLUGS-20-PCS_W0QQitemZ7535188547QQcategoryZ73135QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

[Sparky]

The problem with a solder type connector, I think was mentioned in an above post, is that moisture gets into the connectors and you have corrosion issues.

[dipren443]

Amphenol is one of the largest manufacturers of those style connectors. They make all of the mil-spec stuff. Newark Electronics is a GREAT source for these components. The prices are still up there. The crimp tool Newark sells is $291 dollars. The awful thing is I do not think there is anywhere near that in the cost of making the damn crimpers. We use them often at my job and the crimpers do look consiberably more intricate than, say, regular wire crimpers, but not 290 dollars worth.

Click on the link to take you to a generic search on Newarks site for Amphenol products.

http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/endecaSearch/searchPage2.jsp?x=13&Ntt=amphenol&searchtype=keyword&Nty=1&N=0&Ntk=gensearch&y=4 (Cannon style connectors)

[kmcanally]

Typically the connector specific tools crimp both the conductor and the insulation at the same time and are intended for a production environment where time is money. I have found that you can get by without these tools by using a good quality universal crimp tool.

[indyjps]

damn, i was a communications sgt in the national guard up until 2 years ago, i had boxes of those laying around and repaired them once a month.

[68LSS1]

Jim, I have a set of Daniels in my toolbox at work that I might be able to lend you depending on the amount of time you needed them. As far as the cost they are about $300.00 new ($100 for the body or handles and $200 PER head). There are different heads because there are different pins. The heads allow you to insert the pin all the way and then it is crimped in the proper area. I don't use the heads on mine because it just easier for me to eyeball as opposed to find/set the head up for the specific pin. ITT/Cannon Plug (the first manufacturer and why they got the name canon plugs) is no longer in business as it was bought out by someone else. Regarding the cannon plug that JamesD posted a E-bay link to, you don't want that kind because to keep them tight they must be safety wired. True or original Cannon Plug/ITT plugs do have soldered pins also which is a pain to replace wires on (especially on a plug with a lot of wires).The type that were in the picture on the link that Jim showed were the twist lock kind. Meaning that you align the index mark, push it on and then twist and it actually locks in the "connected" position (the blue bands are there to give you a visual that it is locked) which is good enough for aircraft engines. In fact, almost all the aircraft airframe/engine cannon plugs that are used now are of the twist lock type (with maybe another 20% of other varieties). I haven't priced any of these as I'm not to this point in my project but I order and use a lot at work. I can maybe check some of my catalogs at work and give a few links for some better prices. If I go through work I can get them at a little over cost and wouldn't mind getting some for people but I would prefer to do it in larger orders as opposed to someone needing a 5 pin one week and someone needing a 15 pin the next, etc. The last thing is you can remove the pins from the plug but you will need a special tool to do that also, a pin extraction tool. I can probably hook you up with a couple of these insertion/extraction tools (depending on wire gage as that changes the tool size). The best place to find these plugs/tools will be places related to aircraft maintenance. There are usually the pin tools on E-bay but I haven't had any luck with the crimping tools I've boughten off E-bay. Unless someone knows what they are looking at, or you can see them prior to buying, usually the reason they are surplus is they are junk. If you go here, (http://crimptools.com/index.htm) and look in the left column about half way down you will see the Daniels/Astro crimpers that are needed for these pins. If you click on the specials at the top of the page you can see the insertion/removal tools on the the top right picture on that link. I just started my work week but I can get some pictures of pins, tools, crimper's etc Sunday and email them if needed.

Edit for: the twist lock type are quit moisture resistant. We do have issues with in corossion but not anymore than relays or plugs that are in the aircraft cockpit/cabin which are exposed to far less temperature cycling and environmental issues as, for example, the plugs on the engine harness or in the unpressurized areas of the aircraft.

[Jim Nilsen]

I will probably move too slow to use the ones you have from work. But thanks for the offer.

I think I have come up with a simple solution though for everyone that has the time on their hands. Tell me what you guy's think?

If you use a drill chuck that has modified jaws. Either 3 or 4 jaw chuck I think you could slide the wire through , put the pin on and then turn the chuck until it crimps the pin on. It might take a minute longer to do each wire instead of the squeeze the grips and your done but I think it will work. Do you get what I am talking about?

I have to study it a little more but this could be the $30 to $60 alternative.

Jim Nilsen

[Jagarang]

I'd like to do the same for my car. You can count me in on a "kit" and perhaps we could divide the cost of the crimper amounst several members who will need to use it. Let me know, you know were to find me.

[68LSS1]

Jim,
That might work but without trying it out I don't know. I can tell you that a normal crimp will look like a 4 petal flower from the base of the pin, if that makes sense. I don't think the chuck idea will work because the pins are too small. I've got some small chucks but I have never seen anything that would "close" up enough. And I'm sure there is a lot of stuff I haven't seen, especially some of the machine tools but I'm not seeing it. How quick are you wanting to do this? Can you give me a week to do some checking? I think I can come up with some mini crimpers for $50-100. I'd hate for you to have electrical issues due to bad crimps as intermittent problems are a pain to troubleshoot. They would be without the head, so you would have to eyeball where to make the crimp but like I said in my earlier post, it's not that difficult. The heads just make crimping dummy proof as you slide the pin with the wire attached all the way in and when it bottoms out you crimp.


Edit for spelling, run ons, dangling participles, etc.

[Jim Nilsen]

I'm not in a hurry at all. I did however find a Jacobs chuck that goes to as small as a #60 bit or maybe a bit smaller since it locked onto one real well , the chuck says 0- 1/4" . I tried it on a terminal that I had and it made a real nice and tite three leaf clover looking crimp that didn't want to let go. I know that if I pull the jaws out and rework them a bit it would do better yet. I still might be interested in the mini crimpers if this doesn't work. So far the only concern at the moment is whether 3 sides will let it fit in the hole like four will. It worked pretty slick, the way I tried it I had to line up the seam of the connector. Are the pins seamless for the mil spec connectors? If they are I think it will be easy to make work. There are a few companies that make four jaw chucks but they cost as much as the crimpers you are talking about. The Jacobs chuck is a $60 piece new and I have one that was laying around to try. Heck a guy could probably find them at garage sales on older Black and Decker 1/4 inch drills for $5 and since you have to modify them anyway it wouldn't matter if they were worn a bit.

I am going to get some pins to practice on and we will see if it works.

Thanks and stay in touch!

Jim Nilsen

[68LSS1]

Got to love your ingenuity. Sounds like it just may work. I have called a few places and so far the cheapest is Crimptools.com. (http://crimptools.com/) They have about 200 of the mini Daniels/Astro type crimpers. They are $75.00 and are guaranteed for 90 days. They do calibrate them and do a pull test but since they are not a calibration lab they can't put a sticker on them which is fine for your intended use (for aircraft use they would need the cal sticker). If you want I can order a set and check them out for you. I can tell you some of the avionics techs at work have ordered from them and are happy with their purchases. Also, it sounds like you have some pins to practise on but do you have any plugs? Let me know when you need some of the insertion/extraction tools and I can hook you up with some of them. The pins, once inserted into the plug, can be removed but it requires a tool to do so. It also can be used to aid in the installation of the pins in the plug.

[rolandska]

Did anyone ever come up with a good part number(s) for the actual plug? i have found all kinds of them but am having trouble figure out exactly which ones I’m looking for. I.E. pin placement and size

Henry

[rolandska]

Got to love your ingenuity. Sounds like it just may work. I have called a few places and so far the cheapest is Crimptools.com. (http://crimptools.com/) They have about 200 of the mini Daniels/Astro type crimpers. They are $75.00 and are guaranteed for 90 days. They do calibrate them and do a pull test but since they are not a calibration lab they can't put a sticker on them which is fine for your intended use (for aircraft use they would need the cal sticker). If you want I can order a set and check them out for you. I can tell you some of the avionics techs at work have ordered from them and are happy with their purchases. Also, it sounds like you have some pins to practise on but do you have any plugs? Let me know when you need some of the insertion/extraction tools and I can hook you up with some of them. The pins, once inserted into the plug, can be removed but it requires a tool to do so. It also can be used to aid in the installation of the pins in the plug.

They list two different models which one are we looking at? and what is a positioner?

[68LSS1]

Did anyone ever come up with a good part number(s) for the actual plug? i have found all kinds of them but am having trouble figure out exactly which ones I’m looking for. I.E. pin placement and size

Henry

Go to http://www.amphenol-aerospace.com/index.asp?page=table.htm and download the second catalog. It's about 32 pages. Around the middle it shows how many pins and what size or assortment the pins are. As for the crimpers they are not shown but they are similar to the Daniels/Astro that are shown on the l/h side halfway down the page on that link. The positioners are the heads. You can get the crimpers and then eyeball the position where it will be crimped or to be technically correct, you get the head and install that on the crimper. Then you can drop the pin in the head/postioner and insert the wire guaranteeing the crimp is in the proper place. Unfortunately, there are many heads/postioners as there are many different type of pins. The postioners will match the pin spec.

[68LSS1]

Here's a good link showing connectors: http://www.jrhelec.com/index.shtml Here is a similar crimper and postioners (notice how many) that I'm talking about: http://www.astrotool.com/Products/miniature_step_adjustable_crimp_tool.htm

Edit for: even there ther is a MIL spec or standard, that standard is materials, dimension and size. The different companies use different part numbers. And most of the time they are not intermixable. The part number is actually made up by the type of connector so if you can go to that manufacturers web page you can decode the part number to determine the connector type, size, number and size of pins, angle, etc. Unfortunately, this will not be a easy task (to use and wire one's car with these plugs). I think the result will be well worth the effort but it's going to take a lot of effort).

[Jim Nilsen]

I got the connectors and tried it out. The first time was the charm. A real clover type crimp and it won't let go, it looks professional and it was on 16ga wire with the mid size pin that I was given. I have to try the small one and the larger one but I don't see any problems.I didn't even modify the jaws yet. I figured I didn't care if it smashed the insulation on the first test but it didn't even make a dent in it or leave it disconfigured at all. The sides of the terminal didn't bulge out so I don't see any problems in that either.

I am kind of excited about it since it hopefully will do all of the sizes I need to do. Now I just have to make it more solid mounted and it will make it a lot easier to do. It took less than a minute to crank down the jaws.

One question? How much tension is required for an aircraft quality pull test?

I'll get back with more info on how the other sizes work out but for now, I think I've got it !!!

Jim Nilsen


Just got done doing 20ga. 16ga. and 12ga. wires on both ends with success on all of them the first try. This seems like it will work for guy a that only has one car to do. It might be a little rough on the chuck after bunch of crimps but with the chuck I have it is holding up good so far.

I am having the place that I got the connectors from do a test on them to see if it is as good as the pro-crimpers do and see if they fit in the plugs right. I don't forsee any problems but I will wait for them to let me know. :fingersx:

[Jim Nilsen]

Just got done talking to Mike Brown at Wires and Pliers and he says that the crimps look good and fit just fine in the connectors. No problems installing or removing them.

I have my connectors on the way now and will be working on the harnesses soon. Mike says they come with insertion and extraction tools.

The part # for the Jacobs chuck that I used is #06255 7BA3/8 .

This is a 0-1/4" chuck that is for drills that forward and reverse. It is a rebuilable chuck from what I can tell but I am not certain. When I get into it a bit more to modify the jaws I will know more. So far I didn't have to modify them at all to get the crimps to pass inspection. The cost trough McMaster Carr is $59 plus your shipping and handling. Any really good hardware store or industrial supplier should be able to get one for you. You also might be able to use a less expensive 1/4 " chuck but it might not hold up as well. It takes a bit of effort to do the larger crimps but it works and I am not going to that many of them for me to worry about it. Home Depot or Lowes may even have them or be able to get one for you.

I hope this will save some of you the cost of the crimpers if you don't want to have them lying around useless after you do one harness. You can always use a new chuck for a drill that is old and worn out once your done. If you have one lying around now you know you can give it a try and it should work.

Getting the crimpers might be just as easy with all of the info we have been given and I appreciate all of the help I have recieved. It just goes to show how great this site is. If anyone has any questions just ask.

Thankyou Brian for all of the info,help and encouragement.

Thanks for the link to Mike Brown Charlie !!!

Jim Nilsen