sjaroslo
11-30-2012, 04:37 PM
Guys, I've been thinking about this for a little while, and I just wanted to pass along some thoughts on things that I've encountered in the process of having a shop build my "roller" vehicle--they did the paint & bodywork and fabrication and installed the suspension and some major parts.... I worked with (what was at the time) a very reputable shop yet there were plenty of disappointments along the way. Unfortunately, I don't have a ton of suggestions on how to protect yourselves from these issues, but many of them weren't even things I would have ever even considered, so you might not, either, but I'm here to tell you that they can bite you.
1. Make sure that you specify that the parts that you are paying for are brand new and will be purchased exclusively for your build, unless otherwise discussed and agreed upon. The shining example of this, and one which pisses me off more than I can put in to words, is the Art Morrison sub-frame that was installed in my car. My car was sent in to the shop in very late 2010 with a big down payment on many of the parts to be installed. The majority of the build took place in mid 2011 to early 2012, yet the subframe in my car was manufactured in October of 2008!!! WTF? I paid for that product with my good old 2010 and 2011 hard earned dollars, and got some thing that had been sitting around for 3 years? Was it used? I don't know. It already had holes drilled in it that were not factory--was it used for mock up on a bunch of others people's cars before I was stupid enough to end up with it? I don't know. Are the bushings or shocks or springs already worn down simply from age? I don't know. Another issue this raises for me is that I thought I was being given valuable advice and consultation on the recommendation of using the Art Morrison front end, but now I have to ask myself, was that truly unbiased advice and a recommendation made in my best interests? Or was that just a shop owner who recognized that he had a rube on the line and saw an opportunity to move a piece that had been clogging up his shop for 3 years? I don't know and I'll never know.... I believe that Morrison's reputation will, in the end, mean that I DID get a quality product, but the uncertainty of the reasoning is infuriating.
2. Paperwork! I save everything.... I was anticipating being able to put together a nice build book, saving receipts, warranties, installation instructions (even though I wasn't installing major items like the sub-frame and the rear suspension, rear end, etc., that doesn't mean that I wouldn't really enjoy looking at them, reading them, poring over them--and maybe learning some do's and don'ts, maybe some specs--torque specs on bolts, for example--etc., etc.). Not to mention collecting them as documentation of the build, insurance value of the car, etc. I understand (and am appreciative of the fact) that most of these things can be downloaded from manufacturer's websites these days, but typically the actual documentation shipped with the product is clearer, often newer, and many times additional paperwork is included in the box that isn't available online--I'll never know. Even though, on this topic I DID bring it up in advance, and was assured that all of the paperwork for all of the tons of products put on my car would be saved and presented to me along with the car, I received NO PAPERWORK WHATSOEVER--NOT ONE SHRED. Wait, I take that back, a sheet of paper from the Retro Electro install was inside the car when it was delivered to me.... This also includes the engine, which I purchased myself and had shipped to the shop for install, along with a Tremec Magnum T56 that was part of the build--NOTHING provided to me from the shop. No warranty paperwork on a single item installed--if I run into any problems with anything once the car is running, I will be completely screwed with regard to getting any support on it. Engine, transmission, rear end, front suspension and subframe, rear suspension, axles, brakes, glass--nothing.
Here's another aspect, one that I was just reminded of 15 minutes ago when I opened my new Fesler headlights that I bought during their Black Friday sale that just arrived--Fesler's packaging is COOL. They include all kinds of cool things in their products. In with the headlights I received a keychain, several stickers, a luggage tag.... I had purchased a ton of Fesler stuff LAST year and had it sent directly to the shop--I saw some of it when I did a site visit. Did you know that they ship a pair of white linen gloves with their billet stuff? How cool is that? Yeah, it is kind of kitschy, but it is still fun, and it would be cool to have had that stuff (that I paid for) for sentimental reasons forever.
3. Photographs. This is a tough one. I understand that it is time consuming for the shop to take photos, download them to a computer, shrink them and then mail them. And in this regard the shop that worked with me did OK--nowhere near the amount that I would have liked, but enough to document some of the larger phases of the project. But many of the pictures were very low res, crappy cell phone shots, etc. How about this? Memory cards are CHEAP! Cameras are even pretty reasonable these days. What if the shop either provided or used a 16Gb or 32Gb memory card provided by the owner and just shot the snot out of the build on that chip? Take big, glorious high-res photos until the cows come home, but do it all on the same chip and then, at the end of the build, present the owner with the chip? Send the crappy cell phone shots through the build to keep the customer satisfied, but take the extra 5 minutes a day to really document things for presentation at the end? I don't know if any shops are doing this but I think that it is a reasonable thing for a customer and a builder to discuss ahead of time.
4. Old parts. I foolishly thought that EVERYTHING for a 67 Camaro was available from the aftermarket--not so! And some of the things that are available are expensive! (Ever try finding metal seatbacks for early 67s? Or the chrome interior headliner trim pieces that were part of the Decor package?) My car had a cluster and gauges and inner rocker wire loom shields when it went IN to the shop--how come you threw them away or stuck them in "the trailer" instead of sending them back to me without me having to beg? And rear seat filler panels--I know they were there when the car went in and you can't find them anywhere now--but despite promises to look for them in "the trailer," they never materialized and now no communications exists anymore. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it but a little thoughtful planning in advance might have been helpful.
Again, I wish that I had better suggestions on how to AVOID some of these issues, and I have to admit that nothing is going to protect you from someone who says one thing and does something else entirely, or from a shop that goes belly-up, BUT, like I said at the beginning, it didn't even occur to me that I might run in to these kinds of issues on my build and so maybe they haven't occurred to you, either, so planning and forethought might help to avoid some headaches in your future. Thanks for listening.
1. Make sure that you specify that the parts that you are paying for are brand new and will be purchased exclusively for your build, unless otherwise discussed and agreed upon. The shining example of this, and one which pisses me off more than I can put in to words, is the Art Morrison sub-frame that was installed in my car. My car was sent in to the shop in very late 2010 with a big down payment on many of the parts to be installed. The majority of the build took place in mid 2011 to early 2012, yet the subframe in my car was manufactured in October of 2008!!! WTF? I paid for that product with my good old 2010 and 2011 hard earned dollars, and got some thing that had been sitting around for 3 years? Was it used? I don't know. It already had holes drilled in it that were not factory--was it used for mock up on a bunch of others people's cars before I was stupid enough to end up with it? I don't know. Are the bushings or shocks or springs already worn down simply from age? I don't know. Another issue this raises for me is that I thought I was being given valuable advice and consultation on the recommendation of using the Art Morrison front end, but now I have to ask myself, was that truly unbiased advice and a recommendation made in my best interests? Or was that just a shop owner who recognized that he had a rube on the line and saw an opportunity to move a piece that had been clogging up his shop for 3 years? I don't know and I'll never know.... I believe that Morrison's reputation will, in the end, mean that I DID get a quality product, but the uncertainty of the reasoning is infuriating.
2. Paperwork! I save everything.... I was anticipating being able to put together a nice build book, saving receipts, warranties, installation instructions (even though I wasn't installing major items like the sub-frame and the rear suspension, rear end, etc., that doesn't mean that I wouldn't really enjoy looking at them, reading them, poring over them--and maybe learning some do's and don'ts, maybe some specs--torque specs on bolts, for example--etc., etc.). Not to mention collecting them as documentation of the build, insurance value of the car, etc. I understand (and am appreciative of the fact) that most of these things can be downloaded from manufacturer's websites these days, but typically the actual documentation shipped with the product is clearer, often newer, and many times additional paperwork is included in the box that isn't available online--I'll never know. Even though, on this topic I DID bring it up in advance, and was assured that all of the paperwork for all of the tons of products put on my car would be saved and presented to me along with the car, I received NO PAPERWORK WHATSOEVER--NOT ONE SHRED. Wait, I take that back, a sheet of paper from the Retro Electro install was inside the car when it was delivered to me.... This also includes the engine, which I purchased myself and had shipped to the shop for install, along with a Tremec Magnum T56 that was part of the build--NOTHING provided to me from the shop. No warranty paperwork on a single item installed--if I run into any problems with anything once the car is running, I will be completely screwed with regard to getting any support on it. Engine, transmission, rear end, front suspension and subframe, rear suspension, axles, brakes, glass--nothing.
Here's another aspect, one that I was just reminded of 15 minutes ago when I opened my new Fesler headlights that I bought during their Black Friday sale that just arrived--Fesler's packaging is COOL. They include all kinds of cool things in their products. In with the headlights I received a keychain, several stickers, a luggage tag.... I had purchased a ton of Fesler stuff LAST year and had it sent directly to the shop--I saw some of it when I did a site visit. Did you know that they ship a pair of white linen gloves with their billet stuff? How cool is that? Yeah, it is kind of kitschy, but it is still fun, and it would be cool to have had that stuff (that I paid for) for sentimental reasons forever.
3. Photographs. This is a tough one. I understand that it is time consuming for the shop to take photos, download them to a computer, shrink them and then mail them. And in this regard the shop that worked with me did OK--nowhere near the amount that I would have liked, but enough to document some of the larger phases of the project. But many of the pictures were very low res, crappy cell phone shots, etc. How about this? Memory cards are CHEAP! Cameras are even pretty reasonable these days. What if the shop either provided or used a 16Gb or 32Gb memory card provided by the owner and just shot the snot out of the build on that chip? Take big, glorious high-res photos until the cows come home, but do it all on the same chip and then, at the end of the build, present the owner with the chip? Send the crappy cell phone shots through the build to keep the customer satisfied, but take the extra 5 minutes a day to really document things for presentation at the end? I don't know if any shops are doing this but I think that it is a reasonable thing for a customer and a builder to discuss ahead of time.
4. Old parts. I foolishly thought that EVERYTHING for a 67 Camaro was available from the aftermarket--not so! And some of the things that are available are expensive! (Ever try finding metal seatbacks for early 67s? Or the chrome interior headliner trim pieces that were part of the Decor package?) My car had a cluster and gauges and inner rocker wire loom shields when it went IN to the shop--how come you threw them away or stuck them in "the trailer" instead of sending them back to me without me having to beg? And rear seat filler panels--I know they were there when the car went in and you can't find them anywhere now--but despite promises to look for them in "the trailer," they never materialized and now no communications exists anymore. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it but a little thoughtful planning in advance might have been helpful.
Again, I wish that I had better suggestions on how to AVOID some of these issues, and I have to admit that nothing is going to protect you from someone who says one thing and does something else entirely, or from a shop that goes belly-up, BUT, like I said at the beginning, it didn't even occur to me that I might run in to these kinds of issues on my build and so maybe they haven't occurred to you, either, so planning and forethought might help to avoid some headaches in your future. Thanks for listening.