How about a Tig welding aluminum discussion?

[astroracer]

I would like to talk about fillet welding aluminum. I am still very new to this so any discussion at all is appreciated.
I have a Lincoln Pro Tig 185. I am just starting to get "better" at welding aluminum. Not good, just "better"... I am getting better at reading the puddle and keeping my hands coordinated but I still need some seat time to get the stack of dimes consistantly.
Here are a couple of welds I did today on my radiator shroud for the van. I was using a 1/16 pure tungsten electrode, a gas lens with a #8 cup and had the max amperage set at 90 with the foot control running at about 75%. I set the pulse at 1 per second and had the frequency set to "AUTO".
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/MVC005Fvi-3.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/MVC006Fvi-3.jpg
i still have a long way to go and fillet welds still kick my ass...
Here are some I did on my trans cooler shroud.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/MVC007Fvi-3.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/MVC006Fvi-4.jpg
These are not pretty but they are strong. I was running the same settings on the machine when I did these. I really had to work to keep the verticle plate from keyholing as I brought everything up to temp. What is the secret to getting the flat plate and verticle plate up to "puddle" temp without blowing through the "on edge" piece?

Mark

[HarleyR]

Those welds look pretty decent giving the amount of experience you said you have... I assume you are using 4043 filler.. try some 5356..... I cheat when welding stuff like that... I have prob 20-30 pieces of 1x1 and 2x2 90 deg steel in different lengths as well as several pairs of c clamp vice grips that I use to not only keep the parts square but it soaks up a lot of heat and I never blow through... I can weld without them and sometimes situations dont allow their use... but i take the extra second.....

[astroracer]

Thanks Harley,
I did have the radiator shroud parts clamped to a 2 x 2 stick of steel tubing, directly behind the weld joint. You are right, that helped a lot. I will try doing that with the trans shroud. Didn't even think about it, thanks
Another piece of info I picked up tonight was to increase the frequency when doing fillet welds. Focuses the arc better and makes a tighter heat zone. I'll be working on that in the morning.
Anyone else?

[SShep71]

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!!!!!

Dont use your pulse control at first, get used to running beads without it. The skill you will develop without the pulse will greatly aid you when you finally get to the point you want to be at and run pulse. If you really want to use pulse a no **** trick I was tought was to find a song that has beat that will match the PPS (pulses per second) you set it at and stick to it. The rythm of the song will help with the co-ordination of diping the rod in the puddle at the correct time. As far as adjusting the frequency, when you adjust the frequency you are just changing the negative or positive side of the AC. The negative side and positive side of the AC band affect the cleaning action (negative) or penetration (positive) of the arc during the welding process. Something else to consider is to reverse your amperage setup. When you determine a good working amperage, set the amperage on your welder and let your foot pedal be just an on and off switch. Some people like it some people dont. It just helps you to concentrate on the puddle more. Try welding on different types and tempers of AL 6061 T6 is a great learing tool to start with. The alloy content of differernt types changes the weldability and can make life hell given the wrong type.

-Last tip in regard to your post a little tip that alot of people dont think about. never NEVER clean your weld area with a steel, or stainless steel brush. It can actually contaminate your weld area. use a green or red scotchbrite pad. Anyother questions feel free man! and remember PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

-Shep

[SShep71]

Sorry I left out one last thing, you mentioned the blow through you are getting when you bring your plates up to temp. There are a few thing you can do, pre-heating the tungsten on a seperate piece of AL, Spotting both plates seperately at the to be welded area, or with the foot pedal and patience bringing the arc heat up slowly and then bridging across the two plates. Just keep at it, it will come with time!

[astroracer]

Thanks Shep, I'll give this stuff a try. I am cleaning the aluminum with a green ScotchBrite pad. Getting the tungsten hot before hand is a goood idead too.
I hear you on the Practice, Practice, Practice... I only have around 8 hrs seat time doing this. I wish I had more time to "play"! I know I have gotten better in that 8 hrs though so I will press on.
Mark

[SShep71]

Mark,
Hey man I just saw a mistake. I said that the cleaning action is negative and penetration is positive. I wrote that win reverse. Cleaning is positive and penetration is negative. Use that knowledge to your advantage. Thats a Bad on me for not proof reading what I wrote. I got to look at the pics of your welds tonight. I wasnt able to see them on my govt computer. The top two welds dont look to bad. The weld in the bottom pictures may lead to problems down the road with cracking through the weld. Its caused by insufficient weld throat, Aluminum cracks faster in the weld area because of the varying tempers caused by the rapid cooling. It looks as if your running too much amperage, on a practice piece try the bridging technique. Where you heat up one side of the part in teh weld zone and then heat up the other side of the weld zone. Once both pieces are up to temp bridge them by adding filler. The good news is that your part isnt ruined. You can clean it up then go over it again and re-weld it if you want. Just do some post weld heat to the area to level out the heat affected areas. I hope this helps!

-Shep

[raustinss]

Mark I will agree with some of what you have done and been suggested to you. Here is my two cents from what I was taught in trade school and being a fabricator. With a 1/16" "green" tungsten a cup size of no bigger then 3/8" set your machine to 60-80amps account,of course your gas is argon.....I prefer to set the pedel so that I can go "full throttle"...it's easier to just lift your foot then realize you've accidentally pushed it down farther then you need. The filler wire should be 1/16" . Try putting your hoses over your shoulder I found it made moving my hand easier when I didn't have to move the weight of them with my wrist. You can use a s.s brush to clean your material but make sure it's never been on carbon steel. The "clear coat" aluminum oxide layer can be burnt thru but you'll find the alum.will heat up quicker and produce nicer welds with it ground off either brushed,scotch bright etc. Hell if the metal has oil on it try oven cleaner . The cleaner the better with aluminum. As much as you want the stack of dimes look remember Nobody will really see the welds when the truck is done so for now concentrate on good welds then after some experience you can move to producing better looking welds. Just cause a weld is pretty doesn't mean it's strong and vice versa. Oh another thing your tungsten needs to have a balled end you can do this by sharpening the tungsten a point (using a bench grinder with either a new wheel or use the side of a used one grind into the length of the tungsten not 90deg.to it...the reason for this is there will be microscopic grooves in the tungsten which need to be online with the tip not 90 deg.to it as that will change the characteristics of the arc). The balled end needs to be 1 1/2 times the size of the tungsten so in your case 3/32 to make the ball switch the welder to dc electrode positive full amperage and bring the tungsten about a 1/8"from a piece of scrap mild steel step on the pedal you'll be able to see the ball form.lift off the pedal and don't move till the gas stops flowing. This will cool the tungsten as well as shield it while it solidifies. Finally go out and buy miller weldings weld calculators about ten bucks there is three to the set...stick...mig...tig..they are paper slide rules and have lots of info for setting up your machine amps...volts...gas...etc
Oops forgot when doing the filler weld (the joint) increase the amp settings I told you by 10 amps
Best of luck hope this helps and please contact me if I can be of further help [email protected]
Ryan

[astroracer]

Thanks Shep, Thanks Ryan, I am doing everything you listed Ryan, Hoses over shoulder, pure tungsten, cleaning with scotchbrite, I do use a balled tungsten but I just start welding with a flat point and it balls itself (sic) in a few seconds... I think I've got all of the "stuff" right. I just can't get a bead started for the life of me! I got frustrated this morning after simply melting away a whole stick of filler rod and getting nothing but piles of aluminum blobs. I can't get a bead to bridge between the two surfaces. i can get it going on ONE of them but not both... I am taking the shroud into work tomorrow and maybe Jesse can show me how to do it. We'll see how it goes. I just got frustrated this morning and threw the welder into the swimming pool.....

NO, not really. Had you going didn't I? :) I don't have a swimming pool anyway...

[SShep71]

Are you sure you are using a weldable series of Al?....Like I mentioned earlier some Al types are WORTHLESS to weld. That is why you may have a puddle going on one piece and the other is giving you crap. Are you letting the puddle develop before you try to add the filler? I know its a pretty simple question but I have seen it done before. Hopefully Jesse can save the day!

[jlcustomz]

My first aluminum welding project was my bedcover---a little over ambitious, wasn't it.
As far as certain details,methods will vary & on some you will just have your preference. I,ve sometimes use red tungsten on aluminum as some experts do. Of course cleanliness, tight fit & clamping are important, as well as a little at a time with sheet aluminum to avoid warping.Some don't sharpen green tips first, they form a ball anyways. the red stays sharper.

good penetration & not warping or blowouts are more important than looks, kinda like your first date.

As far as not being able to weld, check your gas flow??? I usually go approx 20 to 22 cfm on the regulator.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[80proZ]

My personal,firsthand opinion is balling the tungsten is a waste of time, especially when welding sheet metal. Pure will ball with usage, 2% will tend to stay sharp. With a smaller ball or pointed tip, your heat will stay focused where your welding. Helping keep warpage to a minimum.
The trick to making "dimes" is filler wire feed. You can feed it fast for a closer stack or slower for a spread out look. Play with travel speed and filler feed rate until you're happy with the look!
Here's an overflow tank I built from, I believe 095 3033 AL.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/5936c039-1.jpg

[astroracer]

Thanks guys. Beautiful job on the tank my friend! I can only hope... :) Yea, I don't ball the tungsten before I start welding on aluminum. It does it by itself in a few seconds.
I am using 3003 and it is the same material the fuel cell was made from so there are no issues with that. I took the cooler shroud in to work today and Jesse had it welded up in less then 10 minutes! We talked for a while and he said I am doing everything I need to do except not using enough heat. He was running the shops Dynasty 350 at about 140 amps while he was welding and it did a beautiful job! You can see one of his welds, that took seconds to do, where I spent an hour fighting it...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/MVC003Fvi-5.jpg
That will be where I go when I get the Tig back out. Probably tomorrow night. 3/32 tungsten, more heat and turn off the pulse.

I spent this evening getting the shroud placement figured out, bending the upper brackets and getting those mounted.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/MVC004Fvi-4.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/MVC006Fvi-5.jpg

[80proZ]

Mark, that's a pretty damn nice piece!

[astroracer]

Mark, that's a pretty damn nice piece!
Thank You Sir! It is now that the welding is done... Jesse went over a few of my "welds" and cleaned them up a bit. I think I did okay when I welded the main assembly. The fillet welds kicked my ass but i think I have it figured out now. We'll see tonight.

[MetalShaper]

I too suggest you using 2% thoriated red tungsten when welding anything .090 and below...grind tip to a crayon point and it shouldnt ball up its not what your looking for when welding sheetmetal.There are a lot of theories behind what material to clean material with and in which direction you just have to find what works for you.There are many variables when it comes to welding AL.

[parsonsj]

I too suggest you using 2% thoriated red tungsten when welding anything .090 and below...grind tip to a crayon point and it shouldnt ball up its not what your looking for when welding sheetmetal.x3. The green tungsten and a balled end was the way to go with a sine wave AC machine, but with modern square AC machines the pointed thoriated tungsten will give you better accuracy and better looking welds.

[astroracer]

Okay, Thanks Guys! I haven't fired up the welder yet this week, by the time I get home at night I find it hard to go out there and get dirty. I will give this a shot and let you know what I find out.
Mark

[MrQuick]

Any updates Mark?

I haven't welded AL in quite a while and a project came along. After about 20 min I knew I was off but could not tell what was going on. I was geting some serious contamination. I took a break and watched this vid on my phone. With in a few minutes I was welding pretty good. The video that helped me out.

ZWJt3fFJ6Hk&feature=share&list=UUM0kHJXSHR1k1wtLuliKmHg

I learned that brushing or using a disc can push the oxides in deeper. It also help me to weld a half hour on scrap with no filler before I weld on my actual piece. Just moving the puddle around and watch the point of oxide burn off.

[astroracer]

No updates, sorry. if you have looked at my build thread you know my dad is in the hospital. He is not doing well... Don't know when I'll get back to any of this stuff...
Mark

[MrQuick]

sorry to hear about that. hope all is well. best to your father.

[astroracer]

Thank You Sir, very much appreciated. He has a tough row to hoe to recover from this one... not going to be a good winter.
Today is my last working day this year. Vacation and personal time, so I am sure I will get some time in the shop. I will update if/when I do any tig welding.
Mark

[MonzaRacer]

Skip all the other tungstens, find some 2% lanthanted, you will have even better luck and it wont ball up. Dont believe me go over too weldingtipsandtricks.com ,look up the tungsten test he did. You wont believe the actual results of the tests. Lanthanated makes them all look useless. Seriously I had a buddy with welding shop,, he thought Iwas nuts, then HE did same test Jodie did on the above web site. He has since thrown ALL his other electrodes away,,,well he uses plain green tungstens as scribes.

[j-c-c]

I often use a Argon Helium mix gas, it IMO really helps with penetration when in the plus sizes. The weld finish is not as pretty though as straight argon, and unless doing a lot of thicker welds or having two different weld gasses onsite, not always a practical solution, but felt worth mentioning. And He has skyrocketed in price.