View Full Version : I can't decide
Hi Fella's.
I need your help. I am in process of deciding on which engine to use for my project and seem to be completely torn with what to do.
I will give you a run down of the options I have before me and then I want to hear you opinions.
Option One:
LS1 with auto trans from a 1999 Trans am. 190,000 km (that's 118,060 miles) minus the water pump, but it does have the wiring and the pcm etc. Price is $1500
Option Two:
6.0 Lq4 from a silverado HD 175,000km (108,000 miles). The motor is complete with accessories, and wiring as well as the pcm. No trans for $700
Option 3:
3.8 Turbo V6 from a buick grand national. Unable to verify the mileage but it is complete with all accessories as well as the transmission for $2500
Option 4:
Rebuild the stock set up. Price unk
The set-up will be going into a 1974 Nova that is a pro-touring set up and will be a driver for the street. In fact, the intent is to drive it across Canada and the US. and we would like to have streetable 500hp
Your thoughts?
analyte
11-09-2012, 05:32 PM
Option 2.
I went with an LQ9 for my build.
Kerry
srh3trinity
11-09-2012, 05:35 PM
Option 2. Other than power adders, there is no replacement for displacement.
really? knowing that I would still need to add a trans, plus swap the intake and the pan? wouldn't the LS1 be closer to plug and play? (I know, the power is not at the goal of 500ish, but wouldn't it be further along?)
Option 2. It's what i did and love it
analyte
11-09-2012, 09:01 PM
really? knowing that I would still need to add a trans, plus swap the intake and the pan? wouldn't the LS1 be closer to plug and play? (I know, the power is not at the goal of 500ish, but wouldn't it be further along?)
Sure, the 6.0 opens up options going forward, LS3/L92 heads among them. The intake/pan isn't a big deal and will be money well spent in the long run. Also, with the $800 saved over the LS1 you could easily find a 4L60e/65e to use.
Kerry
SRD art
11-09-2012, 10:13 PM
Turbo 3.8s make gnarly power and lay down great gas mileage. But what if you used the LS and turboed it down the line? You'd make Ultra Lord gnarly power and still get decent mileage. :)
Have you got photos or a build thread? My son and I are just starting on a p-t 73 Nova for him. Good to see another big bumper pro-touring car being built. Here's our build thread, with lots of photos coming soon...
https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?94010-Project-TangerMean-73-Nova-RS-Nova-teenager-build
Turbo 3.8s make gnarly power and lay down great gas mileage. But what if you used the LS and turboed it down the line? You'd make Ultra Lord gnarly power and still get decent mileage. :)
Have you got photos or a build thread? My son and I are just starting on a p-t 73 Nova for him. Good to see another big bumper pro-touring car being built. Here's our build thread, with lots of photos coming soon...
https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?94010-Project-TangerMean-73-Nova-RS-Nova-teenager-build
My Man, that looks like a great project, I wish I was able to do that at his age. I got a lot of love for big bumpers ;) lol
All kidding aside, we will be adding a turbo to our set up which is why I am having a hard time deciding. I think that with the LS1, the addition of some accessories and a turbo would make amazing power and would be very streetable. With the LQ, its the same, the difference is that I know I would likely have to tear down the motor prior to adding the new intake, pan and likely heads prior to adding the trans. I know both of the first two options will make stupid power, as will the third. But I really need to see if we can get this done with as little money spent as possible - I know, I know cars and not spending money are two things that don't go together. But if I can get this together and have it running for under $5000 I would be happy. Very happy if I could do it for even less.
Once I choose which motor I will be starting a build thread. I will take the weekend to decide.
andrewb70
11-10-2012, 08:26 AM
I chose 1 because it would definitely be more "plug and play."
Andrew
cmac06
11-10-2012, 08:26 AM
Option one is at a skeptical price. I would feel more comfortable with the second option. I got an LQ and trans for my swap for along that price, and the trans was badly in need of a rebuild. Iron blocks can easily be had for around that price you listed. Is a warranty included with either? If so get everything in place so you can test it within the 90 days its warranted.
Can't remember the crossover year, but at some point the block castings were improved may want to do some research on that.
Vicinity
11-10-2012, 09:23 AM
I'd chose (and I did) 1. With 2, you get more displacement, but you had better count on taking it apart, you'll need a car intake and accessories to fit in the Nova. Couple extra bucks for a engine that drops right in is worth it, and you get a trans, no fuss finding one later on.
srh3trinity
11-10-2012, 10:09 AM
Why wouldn't you have to tear the first engine down? Similar mileage on the LS1 and LQ
The LS1 was maintained by the mechanic that I would be getting it from. He even rebuilt the trans. It was his friends car who was rear eneded.
The LQ was from a guy on kijiji that pulled it from a 2500hd silverado. He was going to use it himeself but he decided on something else.
Being in Canada our market isn't as big and its why they have had a harder time to selling the LS1. Hence the price
Daren
11-10-2012, 04:39 PM
Option 2. Those are iron blocks, correct? The weight penalty is worth the cost savings IMHO. Weight distribution isn't everything. A 78 Lincoln MKV is darn near 50/50 and it handles like a battleship.
jlcustomz
11-10-2012, 05:40 PM
If you,re gonna do a turbo build on a low budget, the more common& lower priced 5.3 truck engines would be a good choice also. For a turbobuild, the increased internal clearances of a higher mileage engine are a good thing. Other wise I,d say the 6.0 if you're wanting theturbo or the 99 ls1 (which I own) if you would consider leaving mostly internally stock.
I'm still really torn. I posted this same question on another (nova) site and the response was nearly an even split. Who knew this would be such a challenge.
Daren
11-13-2012, 01:22 AM
I'm still really torn. I posted this same question on another (nova) site and the response was nearly an even split. Who knew this would be such a challenge.
Am I correct in understanding that an LQ4 is essentially an LS1 with an iron block give or take a few cubes?
In my book the #1 reason for doing an LS swap is for the reduce weight of an aluminum LS engine for reasons of weight distribution and unsprung weight. This makes the iron block LQ4 pill a bit hard to swallow. In a PT build I'd rather Ford 302 something than Chevrolet 350 it for the reasons mentioned.
Even so, it seems as if aluminum LS engines are in such high demand with such a short supply that, as far as crate motors go, an LQ4 based crate is significantly cheaper than and aluminum LS. The last time I checked that is. If an aluminum LS is within reason then do it, but the LQ4 may offer the best band for that buck.
IMVHO on varying weight vs a constant power : aluminum LS > iron LS > ford 302 > chevrolet 350, ect
srh3trinity
11-13-2012, 09:53 AM
I think the weight difference is around 85 lbs between the LQ and LS. The LQ4 has a 4 inch bore I believe. The stroke is the same as the LS. LQ is 364 CI and LS is 346 CI.
cornfedbill
11-16-2012, 07:48 AM
Definitely option 2. I would try to keep the stock intake too. It flows better and sounds a lot better than the LS1. When working on the LS4 intake, we used LS1 and truck intakes along with some modified intakes to assess the noise levels. Nothing sounded as nice as the truck intake.
That's what I would do for my Nova if I did not already have my motor complete (400 block, 350 crank and ported Vortec heads). I just don't have the cash to make the change now that I have a strong motor in the garage.
Even though the LQ4 is a bit heavier than the LS1, it is still lighter than what came in your Nova. From the factory the 74 Nova weight bias was pretty good. The LQ4 will put you in a really good position.
daytonayellaz
11-16-2012, 02:09 PM
I would go with option 1 or 2 for sure. Within those 2 options there are pros and cons to both.
#1... Pros
You have a pretty much complete package.
Its about 100 lbs lighter
No intake swap needed
Cons
Smaller displacement
No room to grow
The early LS1 motors have some issues...although 99 saw some improvement
Paper thin cylinder sleeves.... can never be bored safely.
#2... Pros
Larger displacement
Room to grow (over boring if needed)
Can be upgraded to L92/LS3 heads
Cons
No trans
Heavier
Needs intake swap(unless you dont care about looks)
Both will need a oil pan swap...Both will need some accessory drive issues addressed. Both will need harness work.
Tom Welch
11-17-2012, 06:57 AM
we built an lq4 with ls3 heads and intake, cam from EPS, heddman hedders, t56 trans. shuld be about 500 hp. going into our 67 firebird. We chose this one because it is larger internally, stronger and able to withstand a turbo or supercharger better than aluminum. We can also stroke it and bore it more that 1 time if needed. I like to think long term with this type of thing, a cast iron block is stronger and will likely last longer all other things being equal.
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