Poncho powered pro touring/auto x cars, check in!

[Nicks67GTO]

Hey guys. Just wondering if anyone here is running a traditional Pontiac powered pro-touring/auto x car and what their powertrain consists of? What are your likes and dislikes about the old traditional Pontiac etc? Does it make adequite power? Or do you hate it and cant wait to go LSx? Show off your pontiac powered pro touring car and brag here....

[tflyboy77]

I'm running a Pontiac 400 stroked to a 468. I switched to a built 700r4 and a moser 12 bolt. I love it but in my opinion there should be a separate class for traditional iron powered cars. It's hard to compete with an aluminum block dry sump car. I'm putting down 540hp and 600tq at the crank.

[Takid455]

This one is based on a 455/ T56 combo
https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?27647-1978-Custom-G-Machine-Trans-Am-IT-S-FINALLY-DONE!!

Its a beast and awesome. plenty of power. Been building poncho's for years. Like anything, they have their quirks which you engineer creative solutions. Aftermarket is decent w/ some very impressive options. Never would think about it or will drop a chevy motor in my T/A. If you want to do that get a camaro and join the see of the jones'. any old iron can be made to compete with the modern stuff, just economics.

the gen 4 chevy motors are tough to beat , but I enjoy my classics. The LS swap to PT cars is the same as the old sbc to the street rod world. not exciting and a whore. Every one has done the swap volvos, bmws, old iron, lawnmover ect. bla.

building a '56 olds and guess what...no LS, just modified 1956 324 ci Oldsmobile mill.

[damannhw]

My Formula 400 still has an iron block Poncho w/ Butler prepped aluminum Edelbrock heads, and a Richmond 5-speed. Makes around 450 or so and is fun to drive. I really like the torque band when autocrossing. I can use 2nd gear and it pulls pretty well at all rpm's. That's about it for what I like (Sorry Pontiac guys !).

I don't like the fuel economy, the carb, the leaks, the size and weight, the cost, or working on it. I am really considering an LS swap this winter. I've spent some time w/ LS powered cars and worked on these engines, and the popularity is well earned. Heck, if I price an EFI kit for my Pontiac, it costs darn near what an whole LS engine does !!

I figure if I sell my 400 and tranny and buy a pull-out LS / 6-speed, my swap cost won't be too bad at all, AND, I could actually afford to drive it !

EDIT 10/18/2013 - I couldn't actually make myself swap the Pontiac drivetrain out of an original Formula 400, so I'm currently building a '64 tempest w/ LS power that will be done soon.

67056

[paint2361]

67057

My 67 firebird has a 400 (406) with kauffman heads and a FAST EZ-EFI infront of a T56 and a 12 bolt. Plenty of power for what we all like to do.
Durring the build, I got soo much crap from people b/c I didn't go with an LS. Yes it would of been cheaper, better and not leak oil... But, I like to be different. There are way too many pro-touring cars out there with LS's its hard to keep up anyways. In my mind I like to think: Its a 60's car! go ahead and make some noise, leak some oil, burn some gas and have fun! Thats what hot rodding is all about.

[Grim]

Running a mildly built 400 out of a 78 formula 400 firebird. Not sure exactly what it has for a cam. Has small chamber 6x heads and supose to be .040 and flat tops. Bought the motor used and told that's what it had. Confimed the flat tops and a little lump at idle. Compression tested it and pretty even 168 psi on all 8. Guessing about 8.5:1 compression. Pulls pretty darn good. Going to run it for a while. Eventually want a 6 speed so I can get the hwy RPMs down and get some 3.73's in place of the 3.23's to make it launch better and ease up on the clutch. Still deciding on suspension but really like what Andrewb did on his 70 GTO and may duplicate it. It seems to work really well.
https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66491&d=1350762223
https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66520&d=1350858354

[69CamaroPT]

Here's my 67. 2 1/2 year build 455 with all the PT goodies. Updates coming soon. New Wheels that are killer.

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/features/hppp_1205_1967_pontiac_gto/
She was featured in HPP.

67205

[Nicks67GTO]

Here's my 67. 2 1/2 year build 455 with all the PT goodies. Updates coming soon. New Wheels that are killer.

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/features/hppp_1205_1967_pontiac_gto/
She was featured in HPP.

67205

Hey Nice color! Did Prodigy Customs build that car? I ordered a 9" from Frank and I think he sent me a few shots of it detailing some wheel backspacing you used, while it was under construction. Ive got one the same color!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Roadrage David]

I gues im at the for front what poncho power has to offer. brand spanking new 475ci aluminium all pontiac ia II block/ 4 inch stroke / 4.35 bore / 3.40cfm edelb heads / big valves / custom BRC pistons / Vari-Lift rokkersystem / ratio1.18 below 3000/ 1.67 above / Victoor EFI manifold/ titanium valves / termal coated cumbustion chambers and valves / and pistons .including teflon coating outside and inside.. Forged crank REM treated / 6.8 eagle rem treated rods/ Dry sump system stage 5 no hoses/ 10.5 compression/730hp 700 lbs ftq /, Torque curve 5000 rpm .max rpm 7300... bring on the LS7!!!!!!!!!!!...



https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?93068-Project-quot-quot-Road-Force-One-quot-quot

[69CamaroPT]

Yes, Frank did paint and suspension. Corvette Masters in Orlando did the motor, trans and exhaust setup. The car turned out awesome.67213

[Smock67]

That is one sexy motor

[hectore3]

Mine is slowly coming together right now. Engine is done. With the frame being boxed and POR-15 coated in a few weeks. I went for a mish-mash of Global West,SPC,Edelbrock etc suspension pieces I put together over a number of years of saving.

428 +.030 (440)
Wiseco custom flat tops
Zero Deck
Eagle 6.625 rods
10/10 crank
Race bearings
Melling MS54D pump
RPM intake.
72cc E-heads
.051" Cometic Head gaskets
Comp Custom Hyd "Extreme Street" lobes 248/254 @.050 .619/.639 lift w/ 1.65's
Crower Stainless 1.65 rockers
Mega brace
11.04:1 on pump gas
Ferra valves
Canton 15-452 road race pan, pickup, and windage diamond stripper
My custom built 1000 HP annular
MSD Drop-in & Blaster 2


Going into a 1967 Pontiac Lemans Hardtop coupe I've owned since highschool.

Global West springs 680# front
SPC hollow front bar
SPC rear bar with links
SPC lower control arms
Global West upper control arms
First run C6 Corvette spindles adapted for A-bodies
KORE3 C6 Z06 front calipers/stainless lines/ NAPA non-cross drilled rotors
LG Motorsports front brake ducting kit
18x9 front wheels with 255/40/18 michelins
18x10 rear wheels (5.67BS) 285/35/18 Continentals

All along with varied stacked plate coolers for transmission,oil, and powersteering etc.

Once I get all this put together and dialed in I will chime back in.




http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=113483&d=1196745091

http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75024&d=1165603448

http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75020&d=1165603286

It looks like hell after being recovered from being stolen I realize. It will be a rat-rod with modern underpinnings haha! As far as "adequate power" it will make in excess of 550HP and similar torque numbers. At this point in hot rodding tech horspower is easy to come by with modern heads being released by varied vendors for legacy Pontiacs and LS and soon LT1 engines. A true 350HP street car already has too much power than can be put down on the road. Much less my own 550HP Pontiac or the over the top 600-750HP LSx naturally aspirated or boosted engines. I could boost mine and make another 200HP with lower compression heads no problem. But then the car would be even more uncontrollable as it is. At this point it's less about power and torque and more about seat time behind the wheel to get faster. Just my opinion.

[ponchoblue]

im in all business no chrome

[Nicks67GTO]

edit

[Nicks67GTO]

Here's my 67. 2 1/2 year build 455 with all the PT goodies. Updates coming soon. New Wheels that are killer.

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/features/hppp_1205_1967_pontiac_gto/
She was featured in HPP.

67205

Did you have to do any frame/wheel well mods to fit the wheel/tire package? What size wheels/tires are on there? Do you have any side shots?

[Lenie]

I'm in, 400 stroke to 461.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/blackwheels006-1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/blackwheels006.jpg/)

[Nicks67GTO]

TTT for some more! There seems to be a surge of Pontiac's lately!

[ehummelman]

Mine is running the numbers matching 350 block but with Pacific Performance Racing's stroker kit, and Kauffman heads. With a TKO600 it pulled down 337hp & 375tq at the rear wheels last summer. I drive it daily and love it. If it ever blows up, maybe I'd do an LS, but I don't know.

[srh3trinity]

My Firebird has an LS3 418 on the engine stand. The g8 gxp had the ls3 so I think the poncho purists will agree it is Pontiac powered.

[tazzz25906112]

I can tell you that I've had fun with my Poncho power however the economics """""SUCK""""".

To compete with a serious pro-touring car and drive it like it was stolen will cost a fortune... I've had 461's, 473's (and a 535ci IA II that I sold before even attempting to fire) all of which are sold off at this point. The Killer in all of this is when the light bulb goes on in your head and you realize you're flogging a dead horse you'll be so upside down it's not even funny. Try 25K for 5K on the last motor (a 473CI CV-1) with less than 2,000 miles on it as a real life example....

Poncho's cars are gorgeous,,, and if your playing with drag racing,,, or the wax the paint off your trunk scene you'll do great with Poncho Power. If you're building a real Pro-touring car to compete, drive distances to events and generally plan to beat like an evil headed step child,,,, there is no option but an LS in my opinion after walking both sides of the street for multiple years. I've had multiple Poncho motors built and none could hold up to the abuse of the combination of auto cross, road course and long haul without failure in one way or another... To get a poncho to put out the power is not hard,,,, they just can't hold up to the sustained rev's without breaking the bank on super exotic aftermarket All Pontiac combos...

[NOT A TA]

I'm running a mild 400 in my bird.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/Sebring10309039-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Sebring%2009/Sebring10309039.jpg.html)

[Nicks67GTO]

I can tell you that I've had fun with my Poncho power however the economics """""SUCK""""".

To compete with a serious pro-touring car and drive it like it was stolen will cost a fortune... I've had 461's, 473's (and a 535ci IA II that I sold before even attempting to fire) all of which are sold off at this point. The Killer in all of this is when the light bulb goes on in your head and you realize you're flogging a dead horse you'll be so upside down it's not even funny. Try 25K for 5K on the last motor (a 473CI CV-1) with less than 2,000 miles on it as a real life example....

Poncho's cars are gorgeous,,, and if your playing with drag racing,,, or the wax the paint off your trunk scene you'll do great with Poncho Power. If you're building a real Pro-touring car to compete, drive distances to events and generally plan to beat like an evil headed step child,,,, there is no option but an LS in my opinion after walking both sides of the street for multiple years. I've had multiple Poncho motors built and none could hold up to the abuse of the combination of auto cross, road course and long haul without failure in one way or another... To get a poncho to put out the power is not hard,,,, they just can't hold up to the sustained rev's without breaking the bank on super exotic aftermarket All Pontiac combos...

Yeah iv'e seen you complain about them before. I'm not sure what the issue is? I would think 500-600 hp/tq in Pontiac form, 3" main, light assembly would be easy to build with off the shelf stuff, as reliable as it gets, and it doesn't require the revving an SBC or LS does? theres a guy on here that roadraces one in a 68' firebird without issue? I'm sorry your experience has been so bad. I cant believe you let that CV headed engine go for $5K? It was worth more in parts for sure. Yes the Pontiac is a "dead horse" but its a pretty cool old dead horse thats been revived lately withthe aftermarket. I posted this up as a way for the fellas that like the old poncho stuff to post up their Pontiac powered cars on here. I'm on the fence about mine but i'm leaning heavily tward Poncho power because its easily made up to about 600hp, its unique unlike the LS stuff, and there's just something cool about running something totally different.

[Tom Welch]

I've had Pontiacs since I was 18 y/o. I did have issues, but an old car combined with NO experience, well lets say I had issues. I love the Pontiac engine. The torque is the best part. Knowing how to build one and how to build to the strengths of the design was my only problem. I never lost a street race in my 67 bird. I ran a lot ,too. While the fuel economy is bad in stock form an overdrive will work wonders. I am building another 67 Firebird but I decided to run an ls motor so I could learn about that powerplant firsthand. I still have a 428 shortblock that I will build later on, for aome other Poncho. An unconventional (NUNZI ROMANO) approach (not chevy) is in my opinion a must have with a Pontiac engine in order to get the best performance out of it.

[Nicks67GTO]

I've had Pontiacs since I was 18 y/o. I did have issues, but an old car combined with NO experience, well lets say I had issues. I love the Pontiac engine. The torque is the best part. Knowing how to build one and how to build to the strengths of the design was my only problem. I never lost a street race in my 67 bird. I ran a lot ,too. While the fuel economy is bad in stock form an overdrive will work wonders. I am building another 67 Firebird but I decided to run an ls motor so I could learn about that powerplant firsthand. I still have a 428 shortblock that I will build later on, for aome other Poncho. An unconventional (NUNZI ROMANO) approach (not chevy) is in my opinion a must have with a Pontiac engine in order to get the best performance out of it.

The first two rules of owning a Pontiac....

Pontiac rule #1: It isn't a Chevy, don't try to build it like one. It will not work.
Pontiac rule #2: It isn't a Chevy, don't try to build it like one. It will not work.

[Pontiac Chris]

I like almost everything about my 400" Pontiac V8, weight and fuel economy could be better of course, it is nice to be different in a mostly LS dominated category. If I had no engine and was deciding whether to go LS or Pontiac, its very hard to argue with the economics of the LS engine, so if I had to do it again I'd go LS even tho I know I'd miss the Pontiac factor.

Chris.

81483

[SPDMETL]

What wheels are on that Formula? They're perfect for that car!

[tazzz25906112]

Yeah iv'e seen you complain about them before. I'm not sure what the issue is? I would think 500-600 hp/tq in Pontiac form, 3" main, light assembly would be easy to build with off the shelf stuff, as reliable as it gets, and it doesn't require the revving an SBC or LS does? theres a guy on here that roadraces one in a 68' firebird without issue? I'm sorry your experience has been so bad. I cant believe you let that CV headed engine go for $5K? It was worth more in parts for sure. Yes the Pontiac is a "dead horse" but its a pretty cool old dead horse thats been revived lately with the aftermarket. I posted this up as a way for the fellas that like the old poncho stuff to post up their Pontiac powered cars on here. I'm on the fence about mine but i'm leaning heavily toward Poncho power because its easily made up to about 600hp, its unique unlike the LS stuff, and there's just something cool about running something totally different.

Nick that's cool,,, and yeah I vent/blow off a little steam once and while about my experiences.... Good luck with the build/car and I really hope it works great for you...
Know that he 5K was all the motor was going to bring.... it was offered at 8k when almost new (that was at a 17k loss while basically brand new) for a long time before I lost it about Poncho drive lines and sold off for 5K to be done,,, so you may want to reflect carefully on your value assumptions about resale...

[Nicks67GTO]

Nick that's cool,,, and yeah I vent/blow off a little steam once and while about my experiences.... Good luck with the build/car and I really hope it works great for you...
Know that he 5K was all the motor was going to bring.... it was offered at 8k when almost new (that was at a 17k loss while basically brand new) for a long time before I lost it about Poncho drive lines and sold off for 5K to be done,,, so you may want to reflect carefully on your value assumptions about resale...

Agreed on the resale part of high end specialized poncho parts. The CV1 setup has been a controversy from the get go it seems. The boys will never unite on the high end stuff in the Pontiac world and it could very well be the death of it. The poncho market is already niche, then throw in the super high end stuff and you may be searching for a while for a buyer at a good price. I wouldn't ever buy it because I simply cannot afford a $25K engine build. I'll probably have a bit more than that much in my whole 67' GTO. Regardless, I see KRE and Edelbrock O and D port stuff go for 50-70% all the time. Same with intakes, carbs, roller cams, roller lifters, roller rockers, pushrods etc. If it fits a standard poncho its re-sellable. If its specialized stuff, well its kind of hard. I just sold a 500hp 350 chevy I had over $7K in for $2200 bucks though and it was a SBC. Seems somewhat close to about the same return you had on your stuff % wise. Ill say this.... If you're going to use "stock fitting" stuff that is interchangeable and in big demand you can sell it for a decent return. If you're going to go with CV1, Proports, Wideports, Warp6, new DC RAV aluminum stuff you are certainly going to be the man for a while but you'll probably eat it when it comes to resale cause most guys cant afford that stuff or the stuff needed to go with it. Regardless, I'm not knocking the LS stuff. Its proven, it works, everyone is going that way for a reason....this thread is here to celebrate the Pontiac engine and all of its glory because for very little $ you can achieve a 475hp/525tq, have a killer street engine to push your car around, look fairly stock and be unique.

[Nicks67GTO]

i'm running a mild 400 in my bird.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/notata/media/sebring%2009/sebring10309039.jpg.html)

nice! Whats the combo?

[Nicks67GTO]

I like almost everything about my 400" Pontiac V8, weight and fuel economy could be better of course, it is nice to be different in a mostly LS dominated category. If I had no engine and was deciding whether to go LS or Pontiac, its very hard to argue with the economics of the LS engine, so if I had to do it again I'd go LS even tho I know I'd miss the Pontiac factor.

Chris.

81483

That thing is sweet. Any dyno numbers or racing issues? Iv'e seriously considered a 400 build for my GTO. I had SD Dave spec me out a 290cfm KRE headed 400/hydro roller build a year back. A mild one came in at 525hp and 500 ft/lbs with a flat ass tq curve pulling enough vacuum to run power brakes. It seemed like plenty out of a mild 400.

[yellow1098Greg]

My Formula 400 still has an iron block Poncho w/ Butler prepped aluminum Edelbrock heads, and a Richmond 5-speed. Makes around 450 or so and is fun to drive. I really like the torque band when autocrossing. I can use 2nd gear and it pulls pretty well at all rpm's. That's about it for what I like (Sorry Pontiac guys !).

I don't like the fuel economy, the carb, the leaks, the size and weight, the cost, or working on it. I am really considering an LS swap this winter. I've spent some time w/ LS powered cars and worked on these engines, and the popularity is well earned. Heck, if I price an EFI kit for my Pontiac, it costs darn near what an whole LS engine does !!

I figure if I sell my 400 and tranny and buy a pull-out LS / 6-speed, my swap cost won't be too bad at all, AND, I could actually afford to drive it !

67056


Please telle me how you got that stance!!!

[LeighP]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s104.photobucket.com/user/TA76400/media/71%20Firebird/71%20Firebird%20Finished/P8100080_zps72d15f99.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s104.photobucket.com/user/TA76400/media/71%20Firebird/71%20Firebird%20Finished/P8100082_zpsc32b4536.jpg.html)

464 Pontiac, car is riding on all PTFB suspension etc. Currently running original Rally IIs but handles pretty good....can't say its really for Autocross as you hardly ever see them being run here (next time they run one, I'll be there).
I'm happy enough with the big Pontiac mill.....plenty of mid range.

[Pontiac Chris]

That thing is sweet. Any dyno numbers or racing issues? Iv'e seriously considered a 400 build for my GTO. I had SD Dave spec me out a 290cfm KRE headed 400/hydro roller build a year back. A mild one came in at 525hp and 500 ft/lbs with a flat ass tq curve pulling enough vacuum to run power brakes. It seemed like plenty out of a mild 400.

Thanks Nick! I've only run the Goodguys Autocrosses at the Spring Nats & SouthWest Nats here in AZ so not really any proper track experience with the car. No problems at the Goodguys events, love the torque, I grab 2nd at the first corner and there's enough torque to get the car to rotate nicely, so far I have always finished inside the top ten even with an extra 200lbs over the nose (I run A/C as well).

I would expect the flywheel number to be around the 500-525hp mark, its never been dynoed, hoping to chassis dyno it someday.

[CFster]

I'd never go back to the Poncho now that I've got an LS. It does everything better and weighs hundreds of pounds less. It disgusts the purists and the people over at the PY forums, but hey mine starts in any temp, any weather, gets twice the gas mileage and a simple cam swap would get another 100hp (which I'm considering). Power is underrated - supposed to be 430hp according to GM, but makes near that at the wheels at around 400hp on the dyno. My guess is 480 at the crank.

[MonzaRacer]

Personally when I looked at LSx I was ok with it,,then EVERYONE was jumping on to to bandwagon,,,kind of like SBC was 20-30 yrs ago. BUT I just cant get over an engine swap that in both my car would cost me $1000-$1500 to just have a running engine, maybe stock trans, and not much in accessories.
brag all you want, shine high praise on LSx. but till I can buy a core engine for $100, throw $500 parts at it, drop it in with $250 trans and still run 7s in 1/8th and get decent mileage and reliability AND autocross or road course and replace it for the cost of simply buying custom headers and ignition for the LSx,,,,well keep them.
And after seeing them after long use I sure cant afford to rebuild one. Last 5.3 I saw that had 200k on it, the bill to rebuild was more than I can fathom it being worth,,,he junked the truck, bought a 2 yr older one with SBC and installed a fresh engine and trans, swapped on wheels from junked truck and rebuilt brakes. his new older truck gets within 2 mpg as his 5.3 and honestly I believe it pulls harder,,,and he has 4 spare engines to keep it going. His cost to SCRAP the LSx truck, buy the new older truck, and fix it up $1890 more than building the LSx powered POS.
Dont get me wrong, drive what you want, BUT if you throw away your past to "just uprade it a little" you may forget just how good the past was.
455 Pontiac buddy built, got Edelbrock heads, some moderate cam, a set of swapmeet headers that he had coated(he works on helicopters so engine coatings wasnt hard to get done) a junk yard 4l80 and adapter, Megasquirt on two larger sized bbc throttle bodiees from Holley(swapmeet also) and a 2x4 intake with adpaters and and dialed in HEI,,,, in a 66 GTO made 31 mpg, pulled down 60lb ft of torque and STILL gets 27mpg on highway,,,and will pull 701 flat on Nitto NT555s. NUFF said total cost on it,,, $3890.
He also had a LSx going in his 73 SD T/A in place of a 455,,, he had over $3k in just swap parts and accessories and no long block yet.
Cost to fun ratio,,,, just hasnt came down yet.
Kind of like owning and building Fords, yep they go fast but heck for the price of building most sbf I can build 2 or 3 sbc abd they drop in smae cars.
But run what ya brung and hope ya brung enough!

[CFster]

Yeah this must be why everybody is running LS motors now.

A 455 that gets 31mpg? NFW. Shens.

I'll stick with the LS thanks - since I haven't had to get parts out the junkyard lately. Maybe you're on the wrong board.

[rickpaw]

I don't want to hi-jack the thread and turn this into a "Pontiac vs. other engines" thread. I started out with a Pontiac 400 engine, had it rebuild to stock with forged internals/roller cam etc...It cost me over $6k total (don't tell the wife), and got me 12 mpg on the highway with a T400/GV overdrive. To MonzaRacer, I'd like to know how your buddy can manage to build a 455 and got 27 mpg. Several of my buddies in my firebird club could not get past 17 mpg mark, with FI and overdrive trans. Building a Pontiac is nothing like building a SBC. Everything Pontiac is expensive. Heck, people here in Houston asking $1500 for a pile of Pontiac engine parts that need rebuild. For $500-700, I can get a running 5.3L out of the junkyard. Pontiac engine is a niche and not for everyone, myself included.

Now, for a bit more than $6k, I can get a crate LS3 with 430 hp and decent gas mileage. Nothing wrong with that. I did a 60 mile round trip on my firebird after a 5.3/4l60e swap, and used a bit over 2 gal of gas. That's almost 30 mpg. I'm with CFster, traditional Ponchos are nice, but can't beat modern engines in terms of drivability, weight, power.

Here's my 400 before I swapped it over to a 5.3.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s616.photobucket.com/user/rickpaw/media/67%20Firebird%20restoration/P1010702.jpg.html)

[Nicks67GTO]

I don't want to hi-jack the thread and turn this into a "Pontiac vs. other engines" thread. I started out with a Pontiac 400 engine, had it rebuild to stock with forged internals/roller cam etc...It cost me over $6k total (don't tell the wife), and got me 12 mpg on the highway with a T400/GV overdrive. To MonzaRacer, I'd like to know how your buddy can manage to build a 455 and got 27 mpg. Several of my buddies in my firebird club could not get past 17 mpg mark, with FI and overdrive trans. Building a Pontiac is nothing like building a SBC. Everything Pontiac is expensive. Heck, people here in Houston asking $1500 for a pile of Pontiac engine parts that need rebuild. For $500-700, I can get a running 5.3L out of the junkyard. Pontiac engine is a niche and not for everyone, myself included.

Now, for a bit more than $6k, I can get a crate LS3 with 430 hp and decent gas mileage. Nothing wrong with that. I did a 60 mile round trip on my firebird after a 5.3/4l60e swap, and used a bit over 2 gal of gas. That's almost 30 mpg. I'm with CFster, traditional Ponchos are nice, but can't beat modern engines in terms of drivability, weight, power.

Here's my 400 before I swapped it over to a 5.3.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s616.photobucket.com/user/rickpaw/media/67%20Firebird%20restoration/P1010702.jpg.html)

A couple things....

-The LS swap isnt cheap either and you know this. So you got the LS3 engine. Now go get the mounts, headers, bellhousing adapter, harness, dyno tune, etc. It isnt cheap at all. Neither is the Pontiac.

-The LS will out MPG a traditional Pontiac all day long and I have no idea how this fella above is claiming an honest 27mpg with a 455. I would have to see it to believe it. A mild 400 with all the modern efi goodies, a strong tail wind, down hill, od tranny? Mayyyyybe? Probably not. I have a very mild 455 with a q-jet and its terrible.

-Sooooo....do you still have the 400 by chance?

[rickpaw]

-The LS swap isnt cheap either and you know this. So you got the LS3 engine. Now go get the mounts, headers, bellhousing adapter, harness, dyno tune, etc. It isnt cheap at all. Neither is the Pontiac.

-Sooooo....do you still have the 400 by chance?

The cost of the swap was inline with the Pontiac engine. I did not do the dyno tune. So far the mail-order tune from PSI works.

The engine/transmission got sold within a week of listing it on craigslist.

[Gratefuldiver]

Pontiac Power here and would never think of doing it any other way. You can always get a aluminum MR-1 block $$$$

8171981720

[Gratefuldiver]

Ill add if you’re worried about money you’re in the wrong hobby. As for gas mileage install an EFI system and GV or 6 speed, problem solved. Not much out there will produce the torque that a Pontiac stroker does and a nice balanced assembly will rev fast enough to keep with most anything. Finally the low red line problems have been resolved long ago with the proper parts. I’m sorry and nothing personal but nothing bothers me more than a Pontiac with a none Pontiac engine. I guess you can say with an MR-1 block and KRE heads it’s not a "True" Pontiac any longer but it’s still built on the Pontiac platform. Just my worthless 2 cents. In the end you need to do what makes you happy and what’s in your budget.

[rickpaw]

I’m sorry and nothing personal but nothing bothers me more than a Pontiac with a none Pontiac engine. I guess you can say with an MR-1 block and KRE heads it’s not a "True" Pontiac any longer but it’s still built on the Pontiac platform. Just my worthless 2 cents. In the end you need to do what makes you happy and what’s in your budget.

Here's my worthless $0.02, IIRC GM started putting non-Pontiac engines in Pontiacs since the late 70's? Like I said, it's not for everyone.

Beautiful picture of the engine, btw.

[Nicks67GTO]

TTT for more PP-PT cars!! Ive been looking in the project section and they are popping up all over. Im liking it!

[uxojerry]

Great thread and some beautiful cars! The trend on a lot of car forums is moving back toward traditional engines.

[Roadbuster]

Here's mine:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/file_zpsbdb10fbc-1.jpg

warmed over 400 (all iron from intake to pan) and Th400 trans
owner modified headers so I can run it low: front crossmember is about 2.75 inches from the ground
SC&C suspension, 18x9.5 fronts and 18x11 rears with 275 and 315 tires.

Yes I have fun with it!

[Jeremy]

I had been running a 400 Pontiac in my 80 TA up til this summer. Pulled it in July as it was leaking oil. Decided to go back with a Len Williams built 455. Got the call from Len that it is done on Wednesday. Hope to get out to Tulsa next week and get it picked up :)))

[Nicks67GTO]

I had been running a 400 Pontiac in my 80 TA up til this summer. Pulled it in July as it was leaking oil. Decided to go back with a Len Williams built 455. Got the call from Len that it is done on Wednesday. Hope to get out to Tulsa next week and get it picked up :)))

.....Don't you dare come back 'round these parts without pics and specs now.... ya hear!! :razz:

[Nicks67GTO]

Here's mine:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/file_zpsbdb10fbc-1.jpg

warmed over 400 (all iron from intake to pan) and Th400 trans
owner modified headers so I can run it low: front crossmember is about 2.75 inches from the ground
SC&C suspension, 18x9.5 fronts and 18x11 rears with 275 and 315 tires.

Yes I have fun with it!
A few things....
-Whats the basic 400 combo and is it enough to have a good time at the Auto X or do you wish you had more?

-How did you go about modding your headers for clearance? Ive got some hooker super comps that hang LOW. Ive already road clearanced one tube on the passenger side and im concerned with ride height. Ive got the rest of my SC&C stage II setup going in this winter or spring and Ive heard it drops the car pretty low in the front. Got any insight or helpful tips there?

-Your GTO is sweet!

[Ponti73]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/usacars270811-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/gerthofman/media/Pro-Touring/usacars270811.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/970352_463231020450707_910865447_n_zps88-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/gerthofman/media/Pro-Touring/970352_463231020450707_910865447_n_zps8814cbb8.jpg .html)

Engine; Pontiac 400, 406 Long Rod CVMS
Ignition; MSD 6AL-2 Ign. Box, MSD Blaster 2 Coil, MSD 8563 Distributor
Transmission; Th-2004R, Level 3, Bowtie Transmission
Headers; Doug’s D581 1⅞”-3½”
Exhaust; Flowmaster 40 Dual 3”
Brakes; Performance Hydro Booster, Willwood 12" 4 piston,
Wheels; Foose Legends 17” x 8” Chrome, Falken FK452 235/45/17, 17” x 9” Chrome, Falken FK452 255/45/17
Suspension and Chassis; Pro-Touring F-Body, 2” lowered front/back, GT kit, Race Front end steering, Quick Steering 2½ ratio, Stop Flex kit

Here in Europe, LS engine swaps are nearly impossible. They are very hard to come by, so everything needs to be imported from the States. But I don't regret keeping the 400. Very Torque engine, and it Rev's very fast. And for Highway use the Th2004R is an option. It gives you the 0.67 overdrive.

[jp455]

Mine is 455 powered...unfortunately I bought it off a guy that used it to bracket race to replace my 350 so besides the headers/ignition/intake/carb/rockers that I put in it I dont know much else like compression or cam specs (yes I did drive the car it was in before I bought it). I does have great torque and Ive gone on several cross country drives with no issues besides updating the rear main. Would an LS be better? Sure...much more advanced tech, but as an occasional driver I have zero complaints, and power is certainly there!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSC00712-1.jpg (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/jp455/media/Firebird/DSC00712.jpg.html)

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

My Firebird has an LS3 418 on the engine stand. The g8 gxp had the ls3 so I think the poncho purists will agree it is Pontiac powered.

Sorry. Purist here. LS is NOT a Pontiac ...

[damannhw]

Please telle me how you got that stance!!!

Yellow, sorry but I just saw your question ! My car is just a modest budget corner carver, it has Detroit Speed 3" drop rear leafs w/ Koni reds in the rear and WS6 rear disc brakes and sway bar. The front springs were in the car when I got it. It has Herb Adams control arm bushings, sway bar, and Koni reds w/ 1LE disc brakes. I suspect the front springs to be either WS6, or maybe Herb Adams if he ever sold springs ? Wheels are 18" Boze. The car handles super, and is comfortable to drive as well if the shocks are set soft. The car may actually be for sale soon as I near completion on a '64 tempest I'm building.

[69*Goat]

This one is all Poncho Powered...

A little over a week before it hits the street... :D

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/G3800x401_zps22aef24f-1.jpg (http://s773.photobucket.com/user/mrwells/media/69%20Goat/G3800x401_zps22aef24f.jpg.html)

[damannhw]

^ Dang, that's BAD !! What wheels are those ?

[69*Goat]

^ Dang, that's BAD !! What wheels are those ?

Thank you,

The wheels are Bonspeed Gtb's 18 x 8 in the front, and 18 x 10 in the rear.

[Roadbuster]

A few things....
-Whats the basic 400 combo and is it enough to have a good time at the Auto X or do you wish you had more?

-How did you go about modding your headers for clearance? Ive got some hooker super comps that hang LOW. Ive already road clearanced one tube on the passenger side and im concerned with ride height. Ive got the rest of my SC&C stage II setup going in this winter or spring and Ive heard it drops the car pretty low in the front. Got any insight or helpful tips there?

-Your GTO is sweet!

Motor was built when I got it. 6x heads, and as near as I can guess with all the notes and how it sounds a RamAirIV cam. It makes no vacuum at idle.

I bought a set of cheap ($100) summit headers to cut up. The drivers side is fine but I had to slice up the passenger side to raise the collector 2 inches to match the drivers side. Why don't they make them so they are level under the car? I just used a simple jig. Nothing hangs lower than the front crossmember which is the lowest part of my car at 2.75 inches from the ground. The old unknown brand headers were very thin on the bottom and flat! After you weld up the headers, fill them with water to check for any leaks.

The car is a blast to drive on an auto cross. The motor puts out so much torque that even with 3.23 gears I can blow off the rear tires. I have only hit 5500 rpm on one long track in second and I found that it was quicker to stay there for a sec rather than shift to 3rd, then back to second. Better balance and set up for the corner so I carried more speed. The smaller cars really have an advantage over us in tight courses but it is fun!

Check the shock data sheet. you want to set up the shock in center of its travel. Mark has shims for stock style springs to adjust the ride height. Alignment to Mark's specs will give you more tire clearance than a stock alignment. Some trimming is sometimes necessary ( I had to trim a bit) around the control arm and up inside the spring pocket for shock clearance. Very minor and easy to do. If you aren't sure call Mark. He is a wealth of knowledge.

Thanks for the compliment!

Jon

[uxojerry]

Your 69 Goat is perfection on wheels!!

[hectore3]

Love the stripe it looks to be "carbon fiber like". Very,very nice.

[hectore3]

Sorry. Purist here. LS is NOT a Pontiac ...

I will have to agree with you. The last true Pontiac engine was the 301ci. Everything else a farce.

[Jeremy]

Got the motor home and its sitting on the engine stand. It's a pretty typical Len Williams 455 build. It started out with an original 455 core, bored to clean it up a now displacing 468 ci. 6x-8 heads, 041 cam and Rhodes lifters. Len thinks with proper turning, my car should be able to get into the 12's.

It'll be backed with my tremec 5 spd, 3.73 posi rear. Topped with an edelbrock performer intake and fired by an hei.

Will post some pics a I get things going.

[Roger Poirier]

1969 GTO Judge - 428 Ram Air IV heads, complete pro touring. Project completed in 2007

84513

[Roger Poirier]

Thanks for all the compliments in your personal threads and private text messages. Here are a couple more pics for you to enjoy. 8461484615

Remember guys it is what works for you and what your budget allows.

[Nicks67GTO]

Roger. In all seriousness that might be the sweetest GTO...or classic car for that matter, that ive ever seen. I'm actually very partial to the 64-67's but I think you might have just made me a believer in the round body GTO's. Got any interior or engine shots?

[dlbvlxgto]

462 roller, 600hp, T56, Moser Fab 9", Wilwood brakes, 20Mpg. Runs like a champ!

I will never put an LS engine in a Pontiac!!

[dlbvlxgto]

Detroit speed on the rear and global west up front! Ride tech coil overs and extended travel kit up front.

[Roger Poirier]

Roger. In all seriousness that might be the sweetest GTO...or classic car for that matter, that ive ever seen. I'm actually very partial to the 64-67's but I think you might have just made me a believer in the round body GTO's. Got any interior or engine shots?

Here's some engine and interior shots

[Roger Poirier]

Yes, Frank did paint and suspension. Corvette Masters in Orlando did the motor, trans and exhaust setup. The car turned out awesome.67213

Awesome is correct..... Very nice engine pic! I know Frank @ Prodigy and his work. Very repeatable guy and company. I had serious thoughts of sending my own car there for restoration from MI. This guy knows, paint, engine, and the right suspension for your driving pleasure. I chose a local shop as they allowed me to spend all most two years detailing my parts.

[OLDFLM]

Here's mine... Tin Indian Performance/KRE 440cid Pontiac stroker - Phoenix Transmission Products 700R4 - BMR Torque Arm and front suspension - more in my signature...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/004-2.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/OLDFLM/media/PowerBlock%20TV/004.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/11/DSC_3837-1.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/OLDFLM/media/Firebird/DSC_3837.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/11/DSC03670-1.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/OLDFLM/media/Firebird/DSC03670.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/11/0115-1.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/OLDFLM/media/SEMA%202009/0115.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/11/0118-1.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/OLDFLM/media/SEMA%202009/0118.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/tyscaar2-1.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/OLDFLM/media/SEMA%202009/tyscaar2.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/normal_897834534-1.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/OLDFLM/media/Firebird/normal_897834534.jpg.html)

And "just in case"... shhh!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/normal_IMG00036201004231247-1.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/OLDFLM/media/Firebird/normal_IMG00036-20100423-1247.jpg.html)

[Roger Poirier]

That Firebird is way cool. Love the underneath details. :drool:

[OLDFLM]

Thanks Roger! Your GTO was truly an inspiration for what I wanted... a classy pro-touring Pontiac!

Here's a couple more of the BMR suspension w/ AFCO coilovers...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/11/IMG_8439-1.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/OLDFLM/media/Firebird/IMG_8439.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/11/IMG_8186_small-1.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/OLDFLM/media/Firebird/IMG_8186_small.jpg.html)

[Nicks67GTO]

OLDFLM... That thing^^^^ is badass. We've got some sweet vintage Pontiac iron here. Keep em coming!

[bonesfab]

Here is a 65 gto we did for a customer. Vortech blown 500ci Butler block, Edelbrock headed Pontiac. Backed with a 4l80e and a 9". The color is actually a green/gold metallic.

[captainofiron]

While technically my car is flinstone powered right now, it will be Pontiac powered once I get the engine together

[captainofiron]

Also you guys owe me a new keyboard, mine was ruined by me drooling all over it... haha

[Roger Poirier]

While technically my car is Flintstone powered right now, it will be Pontiac powered once I get the engine together


I haven't laughed so hard in years... We have all been there. My car sat for almost 20 years.

[dobie6982]

Is anyone else thinking about putting a Vortech super charger on now, or is just me?

[captainofiron]

I haven't laughed so hard in years... We have all been there. My car sat for almost 20 years.

the rusted out floor boards help, hahaha

[herewego]

455 pontiac with #62 heads in my 82 regal. Why would I want anything else? ;)

[moparcolt]

I don't have pictures yet but I wanted to check in and say I am building a 68 GTO convertible with pontiac power!! non-original but numbers matching 400 block,#16 heads, correct intake,carb, etc... tweaked and cammed to make 425 HP or so.

I am planning on putting a tremec 5-speed in it and it has a 12 bolt out of a 69 chevelle with 3.91 gears

I have already stripped it down to the frame, had it blasted and painted with semi gloss black epoxy paint, and treated it to a full UMI suspension front and rear, and a right stuff detailing 4 wheel disc brake set-up along with their stainless brake and fuel lines.
It has a steering box from a 92 IROC Camaro and 17" black steel wheels with Nitto redline tires from Diamond Back, and pontiac dog dish hubcaps!!!

the engine is at the machine shop right now and should be back in about a month. then I can drop it in the chassis and thinkl about getting started on the Body.

It is an original Black car with Black top and Red interior. I am going to put it back to the original look body wise and tweak up all the stuff that makes it fun to drive like the suspension and drivetrain. and drive the crap out of it!!

[Nicks67GTO]

Bump for some more Poncho Powered PT cars!

[Gratefuldiver]

Keep it Pontiac, I HATE when I see a LS engine in a Pontiac. People that say I want or have to have a aluminum block can buy a MR1 block. I dont make a lot of friends like that but Im ok with that. KEPP YOUR PONTIAC ALL PONTIAC

[Quikbrd]

957779577895779

Suspension, let's say Mark at SC&C stole my wallet
Baer Brakes, Fays2 Watts Link, Varashocks, Helwig Bars, etc

[brut4s]

Looks great Ray!!!

[Lenie]

Deleted by author

[Nicks67GTO]

Quikbrd...that is a sweet Firebird. What's the details on the powerplant? It says 455HO in your link. Is it a stock iron headed configuration with manifolds? Lots of mods? Im curious how well the 455 does in competitions like this?

Marc has got a nice chunk of my wallet as well....I couldnt be happier about it.

[NJSPEEDER]

I've had both and it boils down to a simple decision process in my mind. If you are going for ultimate performance grab the LSx and take advantage of the weight savings and long power band. If you want a car that is a little less common in the performance community and sounds way better on and off the throttle build a traditional 400+ inch Poncho and enjoy all that glorious torque in between gas station stops.

I've had both and I have no illusions of having the finances or ability to build a super high end car to compete with the shops/bottomless pockets crowd so I am going to go be building the Poncho 400 in my garage. I will make it handle well and look good and enjoy that rumble as I roll down the road.

-Tim

[Nicks67GTO]

I've had both and it boils down to a simple decision process in my mind. If you are going for ultimate performance grab the LSx and take advantage of the weight savings and long power band. If you want a car that is a little less common in the performance community and sounds way better on and off the throttle build a traditional 400+ inch Poncho and enjoy all that glorious torque in between gas station stops.

I've had both and I have no illusions of having the finances or ability to build a super high end car to compete with the shops/bottomless pockets crowd so I am going to go be building the Poncho 400 in my garage. I will make it handle well and look good and enjoy that rumble as I roll down the road.

-Tim

I agree. Its uncommon old school vs common new tech. What is your fancy? Both are cool and both have their place. I will also agree that Pontiac's have an awesome sound to them!

[captainofiron]

I agree. Its uncommon old school vs common new tech. What is your fancy? Both are cool and both have their place. I will also agree that Pontiac's have an awesome sound to them!

I also love the look on peoples faces when you show them your torque band, and they say "you have how much torque at 1,000 rpm??????"

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Quikbrd]

Quikbrd...that is a sweet Firebird. What's the details on the powerplant? It says 455HO in your link. Is it a stock iron headed configuration with manifolds? Lots of mods? Im curious how well the 455 does in competitions like this?

Marc has got a nice chunk of my wallet as well....I couldnt be happier about it.

Nick, the engine came out of a 1970 GTO, so in actuality, its not really an "H.O."
'70 high compression heads, hopefully swapping to Edlebrock heads soon.
Professionally built back in 1979, mild cam, some nice head work, your basic torquey Pontiac that runs as hard today as the day it was built! It was great, running at USCA Laguna Seca, when more than a couple of people asked me "which LS engine" I was running and I would just reply,,,,Naw, just a boat anchor Pontiac!
Cheers, Ray

[gscherer78ta]

Pontiac 400CID that was built for street/strip. The # matching motor is on a stand in my garage, the rest of the car is all factory... TH350, TruTrac with 3.23 gears, WS6...

[captainofiron]

NICE!

my parents had a 78 Black and Gold Trans Am with T-tops, 400 and 4speed. Unfortunately they had to sell it because of me popping up in the oven... feels bad man, haha

[mikewoods]

I wouldn't consider my car pro touring just yet, but its low and has a lumpy cam in an iron block 400!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Nicks67GTO]

been a while....bump

[Cjl488]

Here is my 72 Firebird. Currently has a pontiac 350 and auto 3 speed. I'm really on the fence on keeping it poncho or going LS. I saved a decent chunk of money for the new power plant and driveline. It's difficult weeding through all the junk and others peoples headaches to find a decent 455 or LS for that matter without breaking the bank.

If anybody has a lead on a good 455 please advise. I'm in the south east

[Interceptor5588]

Building a 70 GTO here. Advantages of the LS swap are numerous, but after attending the Columbus Goodguys Nationals I have no desire to do one -- every third PT style car had one in it. I've always been the type of guy who likes to be a little different, and NO LS powered car is different anymore. It depends on your goals: if you're into all-out competition then don't even think about the Pontiac, it's an uphill battle. This car will be more of a cruiser so I will be keeping the Pontiac 400. It's turning out to be a bit of an adventure to create, but in the end it will be a respectable combo.

I faced the same decision when I built my 92 Formula track car, and the economics just didn't add up -- a $10k powertrain in a $2k car is still only a $5k car. I stuck with a SBC/TPI/T56 combo and it's plenty of car for me. The numbers change when you start with a $20k car though.

And when i want to drive an LS I'll jump in my work truck.

[Project77]

Great thread! Lots of beautiful Pontiacs.

Unfortunately some of us live in states like California where Pontiac power isn't an option. I cannot legally tweak or replace the stock Oldsmobile 350 in my 1977 Firebird with a Pontiac motor. My only safe choice is the LS3 E-Rod package. Even guys who've done super clean LS swaps have been failed by the state ref. The E-Rod has an executive order which gets an automatic pass if installed and functioning correctly. Since my Bird didn't come from the factory with a Pontiac power plant, I'm not gonna feel bad about dropping in an LS3.

[PontiacJim]

I just finished installing my well built Pontiac 406.(Updates to my build thread coming soon.) Aluminium KRE heads,hydraulic roller cam and other goodies.
I'm still in the process of tuning it but it pulls F%#kin hard right out of the gate. Should be just over 500 hp when done tuning.
It's noisy and the mileage isn't good.
I like the noise of a inefficient cam in at idle. This engine sounds angry at idle and is violent at full song. I love it!


The LS engine is very efficient. So a 500 hp LS engine sounds tame to me. I give full respect to people that do the conversion. It just isn't for me.
I have heard and seen enough of them that when I hear one on the street,at a autocross or at a race track I give full respect but I'm just not that curious anymore.
I'm more interested in talking to the owners about there transmission, suspension set ups and wheels and tires.

I'm lucky enough that all the work on my car is being done by me.(except the machine work of the engine) which keeps the cost down.
In the end you have to build what you want and know why you want it.

[Nicks67GTO]

It's been a while...bump

[Interceptor5588]

Finally on the street -- 70 GTO

[Rocker75]

Hi, Thank you for allowing me to join. I am a Pontiac Firebird owner since 1980. My current "new car" is black 75 TA "cloned" into a 78 SE. I may never compete with this car ( I used to drag race my '76 Formula street car and then a "track only" '78 TA for a few years and don't really have the time to compete now) but I like Pro-Touring cars, their look, their stance, their motors.


When I used to race I was around full on super fast Pontiacs all the time. We had a bunch of 10 super stock cars and tons of 12 second cars. My 78 TA race car ran 12s at 110 mph. That was with a flat hydraulic cam! They can definitely perform. Especially if you update with digitally controlled dual electric fans.


117119


So, I'll jump in with my first question, how important is it to remove the rear seats in my 75 TA? If so, what do you cover it up with, carpet or leather/vinyl?


117120

[boss_hoss]

Anybody running a Butler performance multi port EFI system on their poncho motor? I'm building a 69 tempest custom s with A 400 and q jet. Wondering what kind of benefit you'd get from A multi-port on a pontiac engine.

[Rocker75]

Pretty soon I'm gonna have all the parts for my all Hotchkis front suspension on my '75-78 Bandit. I got the front coils (massive 3/4 inch wire!!!!) that lowers 2 inches from stock. Bilstein shocks, Polyurethane everything including new body mount biscuits. Now, I just need the 1 3/8 -inch sway bar and the subframe connectors and I'm in business. In the meantime my TH350 trans took a dump so it's being rebuilt. I'm adding a tranny cooler and a B&M 2400 Holeshot converter. I know this isn't "ultimate" stuff but it's a big improvement over stock!

[gscherer78ta]

An update from some summer activities...

119169

119170

119172

[Nicks67GTO]

Bump

[md79ta]

I just sold my 79 TA, which was powered by a Pontiac 400. I'm now doing a build on a 69 GTO that will also be Pontiac powered. T56 and EFI as well.

[ignis spiritus morte]

Is your car mini rubbed?

[gscherer78ta]

I just sold my 79 TA, which was powered by a Pontiac 400. I'm now doing a build on a 69 GTO that will also be Pontiac powered. T56 and EFI as well.

I too have a Poncho 400 and a T56 waiting to be installed... I would love to hear your plans for installation and see a parts list if you've gotten that far.

[gscherer78ta]

From Last weekend's Optima event at PPIR! What fun that event is!

142189142190142191142192142193142194

[BL72]

Im not sure if this thread discourages or motivates me to build that 400.....

[gator68428]

Can't believe I'm just finding this thread.

Pontiac 68 428 till I die.

Been running a stock bottom end 428 (rest of details in sig--cam is 236/242 at .050, 10:1 comp, EFI is mass-flo kit from 2007 self-tuned) since 2003. Putting down 400 to tires. Usable power 3k-6k rpms. 18mpg at 80mph.
AutoXing 2-3 times per year since 2010.
6 track days under my belt.

Canton road race pan. Power brakes. M/E Wagner PCV valve pulling from valve cover.

Will rebuild this winter with forged crank and aftermarket rods, lightweight pistons etc. Will bore it. Have Kauffman port to 340cfm. Up the compression and step the cam up and lose the power brakes. Also will add accusump and crankcase vac. Would be faster if I drove the car more--gotta work on getting seat time now (well after the next set of mods... I promise... engine rebuild is mandatory--feel like this engine has given more than it should and I don't wanna ruin it).

First Optima USCA this past April at NOLA. Got third in autoX (0.2 from first) and 4th in hot lap (0.5s from second). 5th overal (tied for 4th in points, but D&E tiebreak got me)

Did FM3 cars and cones the week following Optima. Finished in top 5 or top 10 each day in a field of 60+ cars of all years.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (https://postimage.org)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (https://postimage.org)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (https://postimage.org)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (https://postimage.org)



I really do believe Pontiacs can take over the world.

It's not a trailer queen by any means. This is from FL to NOLA. Track days far from home, trailer is just smart business. Drive to autoX's anywhere in the state no prob.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (https://postimage.org)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (https://postimage.org)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (https://postimage.org)


https://youtu.be/Vcz4N0j3IQE



Project thread
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/124180-A-guy-a-garage-a-first-gen-Firebird%85-PICTURES

[NOT A TA]

Good job Mitch! Thanks for sharing.

[Wacker7977]

I'm late to the party with my 72 LeMans with a 468 and SC&C goodies. She's early in the build but I think I'm headed in the right direction.