Why do 1st Gen Camaro's dominate the Pro Tour Resto mod scene so much?

[CTSV]

I tend to always wonder this as to why these cars are still in such high demand even from some of the biggest builders in the country who can build anything oddball they choose for SEMA or a customer. granted i am a huge fan of the styling but it has to be more than just the good looks.

Are the proportions the best for handling modifications coupled with the abundance of amazing aftermarket parts to make building one pretty straight forward? this is my take on the craze.

i have other non GM Muscle cars as well and modifying them is a total hassle with the lack of proven parts and options. I see the Camaro has the most diverse selection out there i just wonder why other makes and models haven't followed this trend that the almighty Camaro seems to dominate. Im not complaining one bit i just like some opinions on the trends that are so popular today in our segment.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

cause Camaros are soooo sexy.. for an old girl.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/tumblr_lw6pvqiagS1qbvx0xo1_500-1.gif

[spacepirate]

^ amazing!

[nkopper]

Parts availability and resale value primarily. Restorable 1st gens are also easier to find than most other muscle cars. Although, I think we'll start seeing a lot more Mustangs on the scene now that the DSE suspension is available.

Nathan

[Vicinity]

Technically, they are the cheapest to build, both time wise and $$$ wise.

[hifi875]

they are the most iconic of all muscle cars and there is a ton of them for sale at any given time. They also have the largest availability of performance parts of any car out there.

[High Plains Mopars]

Popularity of the style, availability of base stock, availability of upgrade components, range of cost for upgrade components, ease of updates, resaleability post modification.

Mark Steilow's various build ups of the style and his day job as a GM engineer allowing him to drive theperception of requirements for the update market hasn't hurt the perception of it either.

[BonzoHansen]

Popularity of the style, availability of base stock, availability of upgrade components, range of cost for upgrade components, ease of updates, resaleability post modification.

Mark Steilow's various build ups of the style and his day job as a GM engineer allowing him to drive theperception of requirements for the update market hasn't hurt the perception of it either.

When asked about why not build another type of car, Mark made the (paraphrased from my memory) comment that it costs the same to build a 1st gen as it does a nova or similar but the 1st gen has superior resale value. And that matters. Made a pile of sense to me.

Plus 1st gens are the 2nd best Camaros after 2nd gens and yet have superior aftermarket support. ;)

[PT Sportwagon]

a dime a dozen. but who cares. will never find me owning one. a me too car.

Tim

[class67]

a dime a dozen. but who cares. will never find me owning one. a me too car.

Tim

Jealousy is the biggest form of flattery...js :poke:

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

a dime a dozen. but who cares. will never find me owning one. a me too car.

Tim


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/tumblr_lrii1cXuDG1qbklpr-1.gif

[Rod]

a dime a dozen. but who cares. will never find me owning one. a me too car.

Tim

Yea me too .....I would never own one of those me too Thingys:rolleyes: oh wait! never mind!

no really I think that many hit it on the head
1) Cost to build
2) market and product support
3) Resale value of vehicle

and if you're looking at a first gen camaro the 69 has a lock on the last 2 on my list
2) market and product support
3) Resale value of vehicle

[CTSV]

yeah you do see alot of camaros however this is why i did a mustang first now i have a 67 Z28 that i want to mildly modify. But i think i need to look for a 68 or 69 to do a full DSE build one day because I am dying to have one in my garage. Watching videos on some of these cars is a trip and i agree withe market support of offerings is abundant i mean look at the engines we can choose for a Gm versus a Ford or Mopar,

I think overall Camaro ranks #1 then Mustang as second but as for other Pro Touring Resto mod cars. Now with DSE in the Mustang market we should see some sweet builds this coming year.


Now you guys think resale value on modified Camaros is that strong? Im talking about cars done right? I see cars at auction and on Ebay all the time for well under 100 grand and its obvious whomever built it spent way more which surprises me on the loss taken. I think my 67 Z28 has a better chance at breaking even or making a profit than if i modified it but then again the market is so crazy these days and everyone seems to want modified cars versus original cars that drive like POS.

[Mkelcy]

Because they are timeless. They're a little dated, but as compared to any other US car of that era, they are the least dated. Basically, they are beautiful cars.

[LeighP]

Because they are timeless. They're a little dated, but as compared to any other US car of that era, they are the least dated. Basically, they are beautiful cars.

All the above reasons are correct...but I think it really comes down to Mike's comment....they really are beautiful cars that have stood the test of time....has there ever been a time when they were not liked? I think the 1st gens, and the early 2nd gens are some of the most beautiful Detroit cars ever built.

I'm a big fan of the 69, both in Camaro and Firebird form.....even though I'm a Pontiac guy, I think the Camaro is the cleaner design of the two....but they both look great.
Then you get that almost European design feel of the 2nd gen fastbacks...the Camaro with it's Ferrari/Masserati inspired RS grill and the Firebird with the split intakes that just look so darned "right" with the flowing lines of the car.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of other contemporary designs that I really like, but few can match the pure beauty of the F bodies.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

If I build another car after this one, I've already decided it has to be a 69 Firebird....then I'll have the best of both generations.

[Randy67]

Very nice Formula there Leigh. Makes me miss the 71 Formula 400 I had, I wish I had never sold it. Oh well.

[BonzoHansen]

yeah you do see alot of camaros however this is why i did a mustang first now i have a 67 Z28 that i want to mildly modify. But i think i need to look for a 68 or 69 to do a full DSE build one day because I am dying to have one in my garage. Watching videos on some of these cars is a trip and i agree withe market support of offerings is abundant i mean look at the engines we can choose for a Gm versus a Ford or Mopar,

I think overall Camaro ranks #1 then Mustang as second but as for other Pro Touring Resto mod cars. Now with DSE in the Mustang market we should see some sweet builds this coming year.


Now you guys think resale value on modified Camaros is that strong? Im talking about cars done right? I see cars at auction and on Ebay all the time for well under 100 grand and its obvious whomever built it spent way more which surprises me on the loss taken. I think my 67 Z28 has a better chance at breaking even or making a profit than if i modified it but then again the market is so crazy these days and everyone seems to want modified cars versus original cars that drive like POS.

permanently modifying a true 67Z will crush its value. when it is time to sell take the bolt ons off and replace with proper parts.

[andrewb70]

I have nothing against 1st gen f-bodies, I just can't ever own one because I do not fit very well. I am a bigger guy and prefer a bigger car....or a Miata :-)

Andrew

[brownz]

I must say they do cost more to buy BUT they are cheaper to build, have more parts available to make the build easier. Plus the sell well so people either make money or come close to even on the build. I do not own one but wouldnt mind it if I could get one that I could afford

[Dave B]

People always ask me what year my Camaro is..you should see their face when I tell them it's a Maverick.

[LUV2XLR8]

i think it's because people see what others have done and try to one up them... it's pretty interesting... personally... i like to be the "black sheep" and stand out... wouldn't mind seeing some of the cost benifits of 1st gen as opposed to 2nd gen... just for instance... control arms... first gen'ers are shelling out $345 plus $50 to ship for a set of 4.... 2nd gen'ers are shelling out $900.. only difference is some bends... robbery if you ask me ... but it is what it is... we still all have fun turning wrenches, busting knuckles, drinking beer , and beating the crap out of our cars... labor of love..

[PT Sportwagon]

People always ask me what year my Camaro is..you should see their face when I tell them it's a Maverick.

blow there mind and tell them it's a 66 prototype.

It is not that I hate the 1st gen. I had a friend who had a beautiful 69 Z. but his wife had an absolute gorgious 73. I guess that I like the 2nd gen better. up to '74 in camaro '78 in Firebird.

Tim

[High Plains Mopars]

Now you guys think resale value on modified Camaros is that strong? Im talking about cars done right? I see cars at auction and on Ebay all the time for well under 100 grand and its obvious whomever built it spent way more which surprises me on the loss taken. I think my 67 Z28 has a better chance at breaking even or making a profit than if i modified it but then again the market is so crazy these days and everyone seems to want modified cars versus original cars that drive like POS.

Not necessarily as a completed, $100k+, high end, totally custom car, but.... a quick return to a more stock, Day 2 style, or a moderate pro touring set up will be a quick and easy sale. Removing high end peices for other projects and/or reselling them will be easier too.

Yes, doing your 67 in a full on custom effort would dimension its value. However, using a complete bolt in DSE or CPP kit would yield about 95-97% of the same handling potential of a more costly set up while retaining a huge amount of value.

Which actually begs the question in my mind, not everyone out there has the skill set to fully utilize a $100k performance car, yet with so many builds like this, you would think everyone who owns one of these is a super driver. Since this can't possibly be true, why don't more builders put together a car that provides greater value for lower total investment that is more inline with their capability and could return a greater profit in a resale situation? Dunno, but, to each his own.

[Black93GT]

I always see all these camaro build threads, and a lot of talk about restoring/pro-touring first gen camaro's.... yet I rarely see them on the road. I have a 68 in my neighborhood that occasionally cruising around, I saw a 69 on monday... and know of a few in town being restored.

On the flip side of the coin, I see at least 1 first gen mustang every day... why that is not the most popular pro-touring build car has me baffled.

[CarlC]

What we see here in the Project Update forums may make it seem that there is a high-end PT car on every corner. Not true. Just go to the local burger joint on car-cruise night and note how many real PT cars are there. Usually very, very few.

If there were 5000 high-end PT builds that only equates to 100 cars per state. That's pretty slim pickings to find one anywhere on most occasions, and that's IF there are 5000 builds of that caliber.

We're fortunate to have places like PT.com that give us the opportunity to see what other like-minded builders are doing. The PT movement still has a ton of growth potential as the age group that loves the 60's-70's cars now has the money to spend but does not want 60's technology. In 10-15 years it will evolve, as it always has, to later models.

[Rod]

Carl makes a good point with the numbers game, at the larger events theres lots of 1st gens and the magazine coverage shows them all over the event but in reality, I have never seen another PT Camaro on my daily commute in my 1968 in the 4 years of driving it, I have seen a few resto cars (only a handfull)


... just for instance... control arms... first gen'ers are shelling out $345 plus $50 to ship for a set of 4.... 2nd gen'ers are shelling out $900..

$345 and there some eBay china arms, I wouldnt put them on my car that is subjected to the track corner forces that I do, I test fitted some and on daily driving there ok but I was scared as hell to use them at a good guys event(i did and they seemed fine), and afterwords I removed them and the dust boots were shreaded and cracked after 4 weeks of use, and the ball joints seemed floppy

[Jim Nilsen]

There has been an aspect of the Camaro from the very start that give it a heritage that is meant to be only 2nd to the Corvette and the Corvette was built to be the ultimate sports car. Ever since the conception it has been an inner calling to some to always see what they can get out of them from which they put into it.
That being said, it is actually the people who build the PT cars just happen to carry it to the level it has become here and they just happen to own 1st gens. It's what a 1st gen does to your soul yearning for more than the car you can't afford and not wanting to give up what you have. So here we build to dominate and ultimately beat factory Corvettes.

So when you add up all of the great wisdom already spoken it is as simple as to why the one with the longest legs wins the leg race. When you really think of it , the demand of the owners and of the admirers is what makes it all happen the way it does.

On a level of honesty, the outside sihloette of a car is the true test of beauty and the 1st gens have it! My car is an imposter and it is nothing but the sihloette of a 1st gen that is the beginning of the whole new world of Cormaros that keep coming.

To all those that hate them, they can't escape them to there own fate.

[cornfedbill]

My old mentor called them "belly button cars", because everyone had one.

I must admit that the looks are timeless. They appeal because there is so much aftermarket support, they are relatively light, and will fit any type of motor you want to install in them. Also, they do not have the large shock towers of the early Fords that get in the way of big motors and headers.

I have always been one to walk to the beat of a different drum. I probably will not own one.

But then, my car is a first gen Camaro underneath. I guess I am guilty of sipping the Kool Aid too, just not taking a big drink.

[BuzzKillian]

I got my first gen because, I had one in High School. I started out doing it Old School. Then I found the PT scene, and that changed everything! I got it running in June, and have put 5000 miles on it this summer. I doubt if it had the original drivetrain and suspension that I would have driven it that much.

[mikedc]

1st-gen Camaros look good, have good resale, have TONS of aftermarket support & cheap parts, can fit big blocks & huge tires, and the entire car bolts on ahead of the firewall. And the final package is just big enough to contain all that with no additional metal along for the ride.

Any other car from the era lacks at least one of those things.

[High Plains Mopars]

On the flip side of the coin, I see at least 1 first gen mustang every day... why that is not the most popular pro-touring build car has me baffled.

Well, IMO, the huge intruding shock towers in the engine bay, lousy front end geometry ( the springs on top of the control arm contribute to both of those) and the inability to put massive rubber under them without major surgury are big negatives for a lot of guys.

Now, that isn't to say the 1st gen Camaro has any better geometry, in fact it is probably worse - which is why there are so many vendors offering new suspension for them, but they do have more ample engine bays and wheel wells which means you can perform more mods with less work. The less you modify the base car, the easier it is to retain value.

[novajess1972]

Until I actually bought and starting modding my 72 Chevelle, I thought there were just as much aftermarket-ness available. I now see, first-hand, how much more parts/accessories are available for the F-Body cars.

I do love the 1st/2nd gens and almost bought a 70 Trans Am matching numbers, but the owner just wouldn't budge on price. I think I kind of regret not giving him the extra $500 now.

Oh, well...

[AusMarty]

A: They were quite Cheap - being GM stuff.
B: They have quite a good platform for building handling mods from, being low slung and widely stanced.
C: Parts available these days are so cheap because they were engineered to cheap cars of the time, and have gotten better over the years.

But as Camaro's have gained the major Public eye - they have become more expensive, so if you were to make a Camaro gen 1 with all the top Shelf goodies - you'd be paying slightly less than a basic '65 Mustang with fully engineered stuff - purely because the Gen I Cammies have more stuff - because they used to be the cheap way into Muscle.

That is my opinion of course.
Being that I don't really like Camaro's all that much.

Being a Muscle fan though...
I can accept power when I see it.

Especially if it's got a Hemi. ;-)

[CTSV]

I have to say some of them at SEMA this year were nice however i am really and always have been loving the second gen F bodies i guess because that is what i grew up mostly seeing.

I really like the 70-73 Camaro and Pontiac Trans Am. I honestly think the styling is a home run on these cars however do they have as much of a following as the 1st gen and will they be as easy to sell if you needed to? I saw a few of DSE second gen built cars and i just dream about those cars always.

[shortrack]

I always thought the first gens popularity was because of its Trans Am series connection....all those old black and white Trans Am pics/footage of the Sunoco Camaros we love to pour over....didn't that series start the whole PT scene?.....the first gen was the original PT car in my book and the whole parts availability/cheaper parts was a result of it being just that....the original PT car.

[67cougnut]

People always ask me what year my Camaro is..you should see their face when I tell them it's a Maverick. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: