Hotchkis Leaf springs sagg out of the box, slow to no tech support

[ALLstrokedOUT]

I thought it looked like my car sat a bit low ever since i installed the springs, but couldnt be sure how low it would be until everything else got installed. The (app.) 1" lowering leaf springs from Hotchkis for Mopar A-bodies are FAR worse then the 40yr old rusty slant six leaf springs that were previously on the car...Everything is installed correctly, leaf springs are the proper length, but the rate must be like 1/3 of what it should be.

The rear shackles are resting on the subframe, otherwise i dont know how low my car would be sitting. Ive driven the car 40miles around town before realizing the issue and would bottom my exhaust out on any moderate sized bump. I tried easing into the throttle slowly in 3rd gear and will grind the driveshaft to differential u-joint on the tunnel before i get much over 1/3 throttle (axle must be twisting, i have a home made pinion snubber on top of my dana 60-which only has ~1" clearance when parked).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/DSC01874_zpsfc23a0a6-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/DSC01872_zps1084dabb-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/DSC01868_zpse8e0fee5-1.jpg

With that being said i pm'd Hotchkis on this forum a month ago with NO response whatsoever. I also pm'd a hotchkis rep on a mopar forum, ive been speaking with him and he is helpful. However this 'replacement process' is taking loner then i had expected. It took us 11 months to build the demon ground up, and it has since sat in our garage finished, titled, insured, and registered for an additional month because the Hotchkis leaf springs make the car unsafe to drive. I couldve bought my previous set of leaf springs for 1/2 the price...i was assuming the quality of Hotchkis products were superior, or at the least that the service was. Im sorry to say the service has been good, but not double the cost good (the springs speak for themselves)...

[David Pozzi]

Have you called Hotchkis & talked to them?

[David Pozzi]

I'm moving this thread to the Suspension section since you are getting some good advice & outside posts are not allowed in the Feedback section. You need to be on the phone with Hotchkis about this.
David

[Rod]

I agree with David, Just call them, dont PM and email, talk to them directly, My question is about that brace behind the leaf spring, it looks after an aftermarket addon just looking at the welding on it to frame, also the bracket that holds the leaf spring to that rear brace looks upside down? from the looks of it there is a top and bottom and the pivot point is offset

[Hotchkis]

Tim,
I apologize for not responding to your PM but I was told by Dan (who you have been corresponding with on ProTouringMopar) that he was already working with you to find a solution on this. Dan has been in contact with our Chief Engineer trying to sort out your issue today so he should have an update for you very soon. We appreciate your business and want to make sure that you are happy with your Hotchkis products.

[Rod]

please revisit you're install after looking into the Mopar leaf spring installs in some assembly manuals, It looks like this bracket is upside down

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[High Plains Mopars]

The bracket circled above is on center. The front hanger is offset and can be installed upside down, but the rear doesn't have the same problem and its mounting location along with that brace, is unique to mopar A bodies only (dart, duster, early cuda). The bigger cars (road runner, super bee, challenger, later cuda) do not have it.

Maybe its time to ditch the shackles and go with a slider.

[ALLstrokedOUT]

Tim,
I apologize for not responding to your PM but I was told by Dan (who you have been corresponding with on ProTouringMopar) that he was already working with you to find a solution on this. Dan has been in contact with our Chief Engineer trying to sort out your issue today so he should have an update for you very soon. We appreciate your business and want to make sure that you are happy with your Hotchkis products.

No problem, I didnt realize you and Dan had been communicating...He has been very helpful and called me minutes before i was going to call on Monday...I will be swapping out the shackles (i had thought they were stock, or at least stock length, but come to find out they are not). Im not sure that this will remedy them contacting the subframe but i wont know until i try...im next day airing some stock shackles to be here for the weekend.

This will not cure my driveshaft from contacting the tunnel, but i have found out on FABO that strange sets the pinion angle to E body specs (2 deg higher than A-bodies) so i will be re-checking my angles as well, maybe re designing my pinion snubber...I had this same issue with the slant six springs but not the drag racing style mopar perf. springs (since it sat higher, were higher spring rate too).

The welding on the subframe was to reinforce that portion, there was a little rust back there and wanted to be sure there was enough metal there. And as TonyC pointed out the rear hanger is on center...the stock front hanger can be placed upside-down however the Hotchkis Piece positions the mount on center

[ALLstrokedOUT]

I went through all possible scenarios where my Dana 60 may be so much taller than an 8-3/4" such that the pinion snubber would hit the stop when the suspension was still cycling HOWEVER I could not reach the gap between the measurements Dan @ hotchkis had given me and what I have from my car. I stand by my guns that these springs are defective, the overall mounting dimensions may match, but something is wrong with the metallurgy then; from the beginning side-by-side on the ground they were weaker than my 30yr old slant six springs. They can list how many theyve sold that aren't defective, but im still not convinced...

This video shows the differential freely lifting and lowering under accel/decal or bowing up from mild cornering like its strapped to a piece of plastic:

hMtr1ZsSXFs

[DTM Racing]

Tim,
Could you please call me directly on my cell phone when you get the chance? We'd love to continue working with you on you problem.Thank you.

8five8-4seven2-9one54

[badazz81z28]

Tim,
I apologize for not responding to your PM but I was told by Dan (who you have been corresponding with on ProTouringMopar) that he was already working with you to find a solution on this. Dan has been in contact with our Chief Engineer trying to sort out your issue today so he should have an update for you very soon. We appreciate your business and want to make sure that you are happy with your Hotchkis products.

Where did you buy the Hotchkis Springs? I have some doubt they are even Hotchkis...I mean their springs come with new poly bushings, bolts, nuts and rear brackets. Yours look corroded and old. Their springs were also powder coated. The pictures don't give that indication. It looks like flat black paint.

[72BBSwinger]

What is the solution? I have the same set and they wrap so bad I had to build a Cal Trac type of bandaid. Im not gonna say Hotchkis sucks because I have common sense enough to know that Hotchkis is doing their best to offer great products for these old Mopars. I also know they didnt forge the metal or bend the leaves themselves, but whoever did dropped the friggin ball on a couple sets.

[ALLstrokedOUT]

Dan, I will try to get with you tomorrow, can I possibly call after work (5:00 eastern)?

I have that I bought the springs from Race-Mart, but I may have ended up at summit or jegs in the end (looking for a receipt). I unpacked them and they had all the fancy stickers and instructions with them.

There are a few gaps in the pics since I didn't post on this forum while Dan was trying to help me in the beginning.
Mopars must be the redheaded stepchildren for Hotchkis, the kit does not include the rear shackles, just a new front 'lowered geometry' front spring mount, front mount bolts, and new U-bolts (the U-bolts and nuts only no bracketry). It turns out I had aftermarket shackles (pictured in 1st post), so I bought stock replacements from yearone, they do not contact the frame anymore.

And now the spring looks flat black from 10,000 miles of road grime, but their original finish was nowhere near powdercoated

Not the best pic, but an indirect shot while doing fuel system
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/Photo05281151-1.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/63vette77/media/Demon/Photo05281151.jpg.html)

and a pic of them sagging a couple months ago
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/FAA2B19918464036AAEBA8357454AAC268970000-1.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/63vette77/media/Demon/FAA2B199-1846-4036-AAEB-A8357454AAC2-6897-000004DFA9BEA02D_zpsdd5c0bb1.jpg.html)

[DTM Racing]

What is the solution? I have the same set and they wrap so bad I had to build a Cal Trac type of bandaid. Im not gonna say Hotchkis sucks because I have common sense enough to know that Hotchkis is doing their best to offer great products for these old Mopars. I also know they didnt forge the metal or bend the leaves themselves, but whoever did dropped the friggin ball on a couple sets.

All springs wrap. Its just a matter of how much and how quality the steel is to ensure they spring back. If a car is not set up properly (pinion angle/too soft of a shock/limiting travel by using a snubber) the springs can be bent and fail.


Dan, I will try to get with you tomorrow, can I possibly call after work (5:00 eastern)?



Absolutely. You've had my contact info since October (when we tried to warranty or refund your springs), but I know you've been on the fence about keeping it leafs or 4 link. After I get some info, John Hotchkis would like to personally call you to make this right.

[badazz81z28]

I'm a little confused, so the problem was the incorrect shackles?

Something still doesn't seem right though. Why would Hotchkis springs only come with hardware for certain cars? I know mine still look powder coated nice and work great here after 5-1/2 years. No sag...

[DTM Racing]

I'm a little confused, so the problem was the incorrect shackles?

Something still doesn't seem right though. Why would Hotchkis springs only come with hardware for certain cars? I know mine still look powder coated nice and work great here after 5-1/2 years. No sag...

Look at the dates. His initial issue ( which we solved) was the shackles. A year and 13000 miles later, the springs are wrapped. More info in this thread:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=210042

The biggest concern I have, and some of the missing piece to the puzzle is his pinion and driveline angles. He has a non-factory trans (T-56) and rear (Dana 60); BOTH of these together seriously effect driveline position and angles from what we've designed our kit for. If you look at this image....
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w293/63vette77/Demon/DSC01615-1.jpg

You can see that the pinion angle looks quite a bit off, the springs look great, but the snubber is about a thumb from the floor pan. under hard acceleration, that snubber will hit the floor, spring rate goes to a million, and the first thing to give will be the springs, as evident by these springs after 13000 miles of driving like this. It is policy at Hotchkis is that benefit of the doubt goes to the customer, and before sending him another set of springs I wanted to get some more info on the car, to ensure that we weren't going to have the same issue twice. Tim is a great guy, but has a habit of having a problem, voicing his concerns in a public forum, and then falling off the radar for weeks/months at a time. I really want him to be able to drive and enjoy his car, but he is not making it easy for me to help.

[TheJDMan]

I don't understand why this issue is even being discussed on a public forum. Seems to me that the OP was remiss for not CALLING the vendor in the first place. And to add to the discussion, every leaf spring will wrap to some extent. If the OP does not want this wrap why not just install an old school track bar or a link bar?

BTW Tim, your diff cover is leaking.

[ALLstrokedOUT]

Thanks Steve, my axle seals are leaking too. I did call the vendor before voicing any opinions, I figured If it were someone else I would value this information when troubleshooting something. I also pm'd hotchkis on this forum w/ no response for 1-2 weeks. I pm'd dan on a mopar forum when I originally wrote this thread.
I had a history of posting something and dropping off the map because at the time I was still in college-I'd have some free time then work and school got in the way (And I couldn't wait to send my spring off to get them warrantee'd).