What body filler are the pro's using??

[Resurrected69ss]

I do body work and paint work and I've been currently using Rage Gold and it works good. I see the cars from Roadster shop, DSE etc and was wondering what they use for filler and how they're blocking process is. I get body work straight as an arrow But on my 69 Camaro I want it 100% perfect and done like the pro's. any help would be great!

Thanks,
Vinnie.

[jlcustomz]

Rage gold is a good high quality basic filler , rage extreme is a higher grade , &metal glaze is a really good final quality filler.They all have their price though.

Here's another thought, ever use spray polyster as a final, such as evercoat g-2 or slicksand? They require a 2.2 or largertip to spray. They are pretty much non shrinking, especially when compared to urethane primers. They add a little toughness to the undersurface & help you see where you sanded like a built in guidecoat.
A large selection ofsandpaper holding objects is a help. I first learned using astick like a paint stirring stick as a main tool, Many types of foam blocks have come up over the years& have their place, now many of the top guys make their own blocks from woods like balsa. Back to where we started?? I think good technique & prep & proper use of sanding blocks is as important as anything.
The book titled How to paint your showcar is a good book to have highlighting high end work. Sounds like you probably know all the basics, get the book.
Here's a pic of my latest engine bay cover that is still in the rough & was sprayed with g-2 & sanded for 2 hours the next day::: it was several hours away from being close to ready for a standard primer(rush job for a show).
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/DSC00657_zps51075811-1.jpg

[Resurrected69ss]

Thanks for the reply! Yeah I'm definitely going to be using the slick sand. I have never used it get but I heard nothing but good things about it. Rage gold extreme is definitely something in going to try. I'm going to get my hands on the show car book for sure! Thanks again and you're engine cover looks awesome keep up the good work!!


Thanks,
Vinnie.

[kush69]

Spies Hecker also makes spraypoly it sands nice and easy if that helps

[92awdtsi]

We use 3M platinum on our cars http://3mcollision.com/products/fillers-and-glaze/high-performance-fillers/3m-platinum-filler-01171.html and then slicksand.

[mlcurl]

We also use the 3M platinum on our cars

[Resurrected69ss]

Thanks guys! I've actually used 3m platinum as well but found the rage to be better for my needs. I'm going to try the Rage extreme next and see how it works!

[jlcustomz]

If you're happy with rage gold ,No reason not to stick with it. The polyester spray will give you that extra level of quality & durability.No easier way to skim a light coat of filler over a surface than with a spray gun.

Did a little research a while back after seeing the claussin filler on trucks tv. On many forums, people liked the evercoat stuff as good as any. Never had bad results from any of their stuff, sometimes it's good to stick with one brand of a certain product that's been good to you, even though there are many other great choices.

[Resurrected69ss]

Thanks jlcustomz, what grit do you block the polyester filler with? And also wet or dry block it?

Thanks,
Vinnie.

[92awdtsi]

Thanks jlcustomz, what grit do you block the polyester filler with? And also wet or dry block it?

Thanks,
Vinnie.


I know i'm not jlcustomz but when I block slicksand I go 80-180-220 dry then primer everything and block 320-500 wet

[Rick D]

I know i'm not jlcustomz but when I block slicksand I go 80-180-220 dry then primer everything and block 320-500 wet

Um one thing you never want to do is sand polyester with water!! Think of it like this you would not wet sand you body filler with water?? Polyester spray is just a thinner form of body filler, plus if you where to finish the ploy spray with 500 grit you won't have the surface tension you need to hold the next prime coat on.

The other issue I have is with poly sprays is that you are basically spraying body filler on the whole car or panel. If it needs that much to straighten its probably not ready for primer. The only time that I or my company recommends ploy sprays is for fiberglass parts or boats. I have seen poly fail many times as it gets used incorrectly. When you use poly sprays they are to fill in the small highs and lows they are not designed to be a primer. If you do use them then most should be sanded off only left for the low spots.

I know lots of guys use these products and they have their place but make sure to use them correctly.
Also I would recommend using ALL your products from the same manufacturer to make sure if you have any issues down the road that company will have a better idea of what went wrong.

[92awdtsi]

Um one thing you never want to do is sand polyester with water!! Think of it like this you would not wet sand you body filler with water?? Polyester spray is just a thinner form of body filler, plus if you where to finish the ploy spray with 500 grit you won't have the surface tension you need to hold the next prime coat on.



no no no, I said 80 180 220 all dry. Then primer the whole car, 320-500 wet.

[jlcustomz]

Good advise,Rick. Yes poly sprays are not intended as a primer & just as with other body fillers are meant to sand off pretty much everything you don't need. Obviously you don't sand wet & improper use will give any product a bad name.I,ve mostly used them for fiberglass projects so far. But getting to a truely perfect surface even on a good surface usually means skimming everything with high end body filler & sanding off what you don't need. The one big advantage with properly using poly sprays is that it's nonshrinking & can help the less experienced (or time limited) person get a smoother flatter surface without the haunting effects of misusing actual primers & having them shrink into imperfections later. Fiberglass parts in particular need all the help they can get, as they shrink FOREVER, Featherfill G-2 has really helped me to improve on the quality of custom & repaired fiberglass long after the painting process.

One thing on bodywork in general, there will be varying & changing opinions on what & how as long as there is an earth. Developing high skill levels,using decent products, learning what NOT to ever do, & keeping an open mind to other methods & products not thinking one person knows everything I think are the most important aspects.

Ps, evercoat has their instructions online.

[Rick D]

Good advise,Rick. Yes poly sprays are not intended as a primer

That is correct they are not a primer.

The one big advantage with properly using poly sprays is that it's nonshrinking & can help the less experienced (or time limited) person get a smoother flatter surface without the haunting effects of misusing actual primers & having them shrink into imperfections later.

This statement I have issue with, our surfacer (primer) has a shrink rate of about 2% +or- while our poly has a shrink rate of 8% +or- so poly will shrink much more over all. The problem is that because poly is made up of a larger Styrene (which will condense with time because of the larger practicals) and most major brands primer/surfacers are made of limestone and then most use talc as a filler. More talc easier to sand more shrinkage, less talc (ours +or- 1 to 5%) harder to sand less shrinkage. Now that being said all will have some shrinkage and if you prime over 80 scratches (yes some still do) it won't make any difference what products you use it will shrink down into the scratch. Hope some of this helps some the home builders.

Ps, evercoat has their instructions online.

When ever in your not sure of how to use a product consult the factory rep :) or the seller of the products!!

[jlcustomz]

Rick, what brand & part # of primer surfacer & poly are you referring to as ours? Seems like I remember the evercoat g-2 being less than 2% shrinkage & average 2k primers shrinking much more. I recently threw away a can old & hardened g-2 , it was half full & butt tight against the sides, no cracks.
I'm by no means a full time body shop person, so feel free to correct me where ever i might have misinformation. I'm hear to learn also. Products have changed so much over the years, it's easy to have misinformation on some. I also haven't had the pleasure of trying some of the most expensive ones, which maybe your primer surfacer is.

Also guess I should mention that on most projects that I've used G-2 on, I was able to give it extra drying time with the hot florida heat cycles. Particularly on something like a fiberglass customized hood that will get hot later, I think being able to let it heat & cool a bit with engine heat helps it out in the future.

[Todd in Vancouver]

I am also reading this with much interest as I am a newbie to this and am fumbling my way through. One thing that has been made loud and clear to me is to make sure I stick with one brand and not jump around as a few others have already stated. I've been told that if too many different products/brands are used you can end up with a reaction, hence I deal with one supplier and the same paint guy every time I buy product and supplies. I am speaking personally on this one as I had another project start bubbling under the paint and the whole car had to be stripped, apparently the primer reacted with something else. I will also be seeking out the above mentioned book and a BIG Thanks to the guys in the know above who give some advice to a guy like me trying to do his own project in his garage at home.

[jlcustomz]

Todd, I will say I,ve always had great results with the evercoat products I,ve properly used. Although I don,t do bodywork for a living, when I started in the door business in 88' , the wholesaler I worked far had probably over 1,000 residential steel doors with dents set aside,plus hundreds in years to follow. I repaired most all of em with evercoat # 400 glazing putty, which is a seldom asked for product model these days. The only ones I ever heard back on were later paint stripper stripped by a customers painter. Sanded into some #400 on the top of my own truck fenders that I forgot was there redoing them from 10 years before. It was lightly applied over scuffed paint , never showed any repair signs under the gloss black paint, Which is exactly what you hope for.
I,m currently waiting for Rick to answer a pm on the discussion of primer & spray poly. Apparently he is a sikkens rep & their products he mentioned without part #'s sound vastly different in shrinkage rates that what I understand from what I,ve used.
Also in the book I,ve mentioned, some high end vehicles recieved a coating of Glassurit spray poly before final sanding & actual primer. I'm sure BASF glassurit makes some really super products, But I,m afraid to ask how much $. Also they make a non shrinking clear uv activated primer, which I heard from a recently retired paint supply rep was really good stuff, especially for spot repairs such as modern bumpers.
Doing stuff you have to pay for yourself doesn't always allow you to use the absolute best products on the market, but thankfully many of the upper medium priced stuff is really awesome compared to auto parts store BONDO.
Many times product brand comes down to what is available locally.
Also another great product for rougher bare metal repairs/welded areas is USC all metal or it's equivelant. Many older guys use it where they used to use lead. If it's good enough to cover over properly ground down rusted(cheese) metal areas long enough for the next restorer of the car to not know it was improperly repaired that way, then it's great for use on proper repairs requiring something a little tougher.

[Todd in Vancouver]

Todd, I will say I,ve always had great results with the evercoat products I,ve properly used. Although I don,t do bodywork for a living, when I started in the door business in 88' , the wholesaler I worked far had probably over 1,000 residential steel doors with dents set aside,plus hundreds in years to follow. I repaired most all of em with evercoat # 400 glazing putty, which is a seldom asked for product model these days. The only ones I ever heard back on were later paint stripper stripped by a customers painter. Sanded into some #400 on the top of my own truck fenders that I forgot was there redoing them from 10 years before. It was lightly applied over scuffed paint , never showed any repair signs under the gloss black paint, Which is exactly what you hope for.
I,m currently waiting for Rick to answer a pm on the discussion of primer & spray poly. Apparently he is a sikkens rep & their products he mentioned without part #'s sound vastly different in shrinkage rates that what I understand from what I,ve used.
Also in the book I,ve mentioned, some high end vehicles recieved a coating of Glassurit spray poly before final sanding & actual primer. I'm sure BASF glassurit makes some really super products, But I,m afraid to ask how much $. Also they make a non shrinking clear uv activated primer, which I heard from a recently retired paint supply rep was really good stuff, especially for spot repairs such as modern bumpers.
Doing stuff you have to pay for yourself doesn't always allow you to use the absolute best products on the market, but thankfully many of the upper medium priced stuff is really awesome compared to auto parts store BONDO.
Many times product brand comes down to what is available locally.
Also another great product for rougher bare metal repairs/welded areas is USC all metal or it's equivelant. Many older guys use it where they used to use lead. If it's good enough to cover over properly ground down rusted(cheese) metal areas long enough for the next restorer of the car to not know it was improperly repaired that way, then it's great for use on proper repairs requiring something a little tougher.

Thanks for the great feedback and the posting on my build. Like most guys I'm sure, I am trying to save a few bucks by doing as much of the work myself as I can. Not only am I saving some cash to spend in other areas of my build, I'm really enjoying the progress and learning to do the work myself. I actually found a bodyman who works on the side who will put my new quarter panels on for me BUT, I am looking forward to doing it myself and being able to have the pride that I did the car myself and not farm it out to someone else. Here are the products that I used on my firewall to flatten it out after I welded in the new tin;
66848

and here is what I used to prime my work after;
66849

I'm posting this because if I made a mistake or there is an easier way then maybe this tread can help someone else. At the end of the day I know that I will make some mistakes and that's OK because this is a learning process. I will enjoy driving this car when I'm done but for me the journey getting there is half the fun. I will talk to my local auto store where I have been buying my supplies and see if there is a compatible filler primer I can use or if someone knows what I can use on top of what I did by all means please post it. I was assured by the guy I bought the primer from that this formula will seal and do the right job by mixing the 3 parts and spraying the firewall.

66850

[rlodad]

Any of you guys used PPG K 38? How does it compare to the rage products, slicks and, etc?
Thanks!

[redss86]

At work we use Evercoat Quantum One filler. If you like Rage Gold, you would love this stuff. Spreads smooth, dries fast, and is very easy to sand. Even when left overnight. Plus, for a small spot you only need to scuff the spot with 180 grit, and for bigger repairs, it's 80 grit. It also has three different hardeners for different temps. (No I am NOT a salesman or rep. I just would not use anything else, after using it. It's that nice.)

At work we use the Quantum till it's ready for primer. Blocked with 180 and feathered with 320. Then etch prima any bare metal, and prime. We use PPG paint, so we use their DPS3055 2k surfacer.

Now, if I am doing a complete, I fill with Quantum, block with 80 grit, and epoxy prime any bare metal. Then after epoxy is dry, da epoxy with 80 grit, and spray with poly (my preference is Spies Hecker's Raderal spray filler). Then block with 180, 240, and prime. Block with 320, prime again, and final block with 500 wet. I know it's a lot of steps, but if you want it straight, you gotta put in the time.

[elitecustombody]

I've been using Evercoat line for well over a decade and wouldn't even consider going to another line. Any of Evercoat fillers work fine. Rage Gold or Extreme is good stuff. If you want something that sand easier ,use their glazing putty. Featherfill G2 is great ,I use it all the time, I usually start with 120 grit .

[jlcustomz]

I've been using Evercoat line for well over a decade and wouldn't even consider going to another line. Any of Evercoat fillers work fine. Rage Gold or Extreme is good stuff. If you want something that sand easier ,use their glazing putty. Featherfill G2 is great ,I use it all the time, I usually start with 120 grit .

Everyone has & is entitled to their opinion on products. Seeing the quality of your shop's work for years makes me happy my opinion matches your's.:evil: