Should I Pull The Trigger??

[novajess1972]

Not totally new to the LSx scene or LS1 tech, but new to the idea of swapping a LSx into my 72 Chevelle.

I am considering buying the E-Rod LS3 package since I have noticed a significant price drop ($1500 less than the below link) on several. Is there any reason why I shouldn't go for it? Huge advantage is that it comes with the engine controller which is around $1000 alone. Everything said...total 'drive out' $6200ish.

Also, does the drive by wire pedal that is included bolt right up to older vehicles (70-72 A Body, specifically)?

http://paceperformance.com/i-6255562...nsmission.html (http://paceperformance.com/i-6255562-19257230-gm-ls3-6-2l-gen-iv-e-rod-engine-package-automatic-transmission.html)

Thanks

[novajess1972]

I figure I will ditch the cats and run regular long tubes, swap oil pans to work with the A-body, find p/s pump and bracket, alternator and bracket, add electric pump to tank or buy complete unit, find 4l80e tranny or use transdapter flexplate for my existing th350.

One of my biggest questions centers around the pedal assembly and if it will bolt right up in the Chevelle. I'm guessing there will be some fabbing to be done, maybe??

[bret]

We put an erod LS3 in our 66 Chevelle a few years ago and have beat it like a rented mule since. [ask anyone who has chased me around the autocross or road course :)] It is unbeleiveably smooth, powerful and reliable. The package is also the most complete adn well thought out system I've ever used [and I've used a lot of them]. On a scale of 1-10...it's at least a 13.

Here is a link
http://www.ridetech.com/garage/1966-chevelle/

[cornfedbill]

It's a great package with very little hassle. But I can't tell you if the pedal bolts right up.

A friend of mine who owns a speed shop where I used to live in Michigan put this package in a '79 Camaro he built for David Freiberger of Hot Rod Magazine. It was real nice and also trouble free. He installed a lot of LS motors and really liked this LS3 E-Rod motor assembly.

[novajess1972]

We put an erod LS3 in our 66 Chevelle a few years ago and have beat it like a rented mule since. [ask anyone who has chased me around the autocross or road course :)] It is unbeleiveably smooth, powerful and reliable. The package is also the most complete adn well thought out system I've ever used [and I've used a lot of them]. On a scale of 1-10...it's at least a 13.

Here is a link
http://www.ridetech.com/garage/1966-chevelle/

Thanks, Bret!

Can you expand a bit on how you did the DBW pedal? Did you use it and fabbed something up or did you go another route? I'm trying to come up with a real world budget (wish I had a RideTech budget..lol) and weigh my options. I'm really excited about getting started, but don't want to do anything impulsive. I think I can handle all the other related issues - efi fueling for tank, oil pan, accessories.

[srh3trinity]

I used to think that was a lot of money to spend on an engine, but LSX swaps can nickel and dime you into a pretty high price. I have an L92 block that I bought for 600 that needs freshening up and at least a hone so that will probably be 1000-1500 for machining/bearings/bolts (maybe 700 more if I have to go to a 4.070 piston), then a cam swap at 350 or so, LS3 intake that I scored for 200, LS3 heads for 600, accessory drive 300 used, oil pan 150, headers 250, wiring harness/ecm will likely be in the neighborhood of 1000 and a few other things I am not listing. I got good deals on most of this, but it has taken about two years of patience to score these deals. Some of the prices I listed are more the average price and I paid a little less, but you get the idea. You can either write the check and know what you are getting in a crate motor or spend little by little to build the engine you want.

[novajess1972]

I used to think that was a lot of money to spend on an engine, but LSX swaps can nickel and dime you into a pretty high price. I have an L92 block that I bought for 600 that needs freshening up and at least a hone so that will probably be 1000-1500 for machining/bearings/bolts (maybe 700 more if I have to go to a 4.070 piston), then a cam swap at 350 or so, LS3 intake that I scored for 200, LS3 heads for 600, accessory drive 300 used, oil pan 150, headers 250, wiring harness/ecm will likely be in the neighborhood of 1000 and a few other things I am not listing. I got good deals on most of this, but it has taken about two years of patience to score these deals. Some of the prices I listed are more the average price and I paid a little less, but you get the idea. You can either write the check and know what you are getting in a crate motor or spend little by little to build the engine you want.

Yup! This is the exact reason I am considering buying this. I have gone back and forth between LS1, LQ4, LQ9, LM7...all from salvage yards for cheap. But every single time I started adding in the things it would take to complete the swap, I keep ending up back at $6k-7k.

[srh3trinity]

I had a junkyard LQ4 first and parted it out, made my money back and then swapped the block for a transmission core. I didn't have the money all at once to drop on an Erod engine, but when I look at the totals above, I would be pretty close if I had just saved and bought it. I will probably wind up with upgraded pistons, ARP bolts, upgraded valve springs and a different cam and I will be under the cost of an LS3, but again, it took a lot of sourcing and patience to get this far. If you are moving forward on a project and are waiting on an engine, sometimes you pay a premium for availability.

[novajess1972]

Agreed!

Okay....couldn't resist. I purchased it!

Next order of business - Accessories and other necessary items for the swap.

What can you think of that I need to complete the swap?

1. long tubes
2. swap oil pans to work with the A-body (maybe use the CTS-V)
3. p/s pump and bracket
4. alternator and bracket
5. add electric pump to tank or buy complete unit (too frikkin expensive)
6. locate 4l60e/4l80e tranny or use transdapter flexplate for my existing th350.
7. conversion motor mounts
8. ?????

I'm sure I'm forgetting things so your help is much appreciated.

[srh3trinity]

The 98-02 F-body accessory drive and the GTO accessory drives are probably the most compact. I am not sure about A-bodies though. I am doing an F-body build and using an F-body accessory drive and oil pan. Start a new thread in the LSX section or do some searching on here and LS1tech to see what other A-bodies have done.

[bret]

Agreed!

Okay....couldn't resist. I purchased it!

Next order of business - Accessories and other necessary items for the swap.

What can you think of that I need to complete the swap?

1. long tubes
2. swap oil pans to work with the A-body (maybe use the CTS-V)
3. p/s pump and bracket
4. alternator and bracket
5. add electric pump to tank or buy complete unit (too frikkin expensive)
6. locate 4l60e/4l80e tranny or use transdapter flexplate for my existing th350.
7. conversion motor mounts
8. ?????

I'm sure I'm forgetting things so your help is much appreciated.

We're running ours withthe supplied cast iron exhaust manifolds and the 4 cats, a 2.5 exhaust and flowmasters. Minor trimming on the lower rear control arm mounts. Quiet as a taxicab at idle...nice snarl at full throttle. It made 369rwhp. It feels a bunch better than that. We used a Holley cast aluminum pan and engine mounts. ...no problems on the autocross or road course. We used a Ricks tank, but the oem tank could be adapted with a vaporworx fuel pump system. We ended up using a Vintage Air Frontrunner for accessories, but some time adn fab skills could make the supplied GM drive system work fine.

[bret]

Thanks, Bret!

Can you expand a bit on how you did the DBW pedal? Did you use it and fabbed something up or did you go another route? I'm trying to come up with a real world budget (wish I had a RideTech budget..lol) and weigh my options. I'm really excited about getting started, but don't want to do anything impulsive. I think I can handle all the other related issues - efi fueling for tank, oil pan, accessories.

We used the supplied DBW pedal...bolted right up. We may have drilled a couple holes for mounting, but in the scheme of things that we regularly make [or invent] that didn't even come up on the radar. :)

[srh3trinity]

We're running ours withthe supplied cast iron exhaust manifolds and the 4 cats, a 2.5 exhaust and flowmasters. Minor trimming on the lower rear control arm mounts. Quiet as a taxicab at idle...nice snarl at full throttle. It made 369rwhp. It feels a bunch better than that. We used a Holley cast aluminum pan and engine mounts. ...no problems on the autocross or road course. We used a Ricks tank, but the oem tank could be adapted with a vaporworx fuel pump system. We ended up using a Vintage Air Frontrunner for accessories, but some time adn fab skills could make the supplied GM drive system work fine.
That is a lot of HP with 4 convertors!

[kochevy67]

The pedal bolts in but I cut the pedal rod and rewelded it to change the angle for comfort. I say you do it, I have an LS2 in my 67 Chevelle and love it.

[Vicinity]

Agreed!

Okay....couldn't resist. I purchased it!

Next order of business - Accessories and other necessary items for the swap.

What can you think of that I need to complete the swap?

1. long tubes
2. swap oil pans to work with the A-body (maybe use the CTS-V)
3. p/s pump and bracket
4. alternator and bracket
5. add electric pump to tank or buy complete unit (too frikkin expensive)
6. locate 4l60e/4l80e tranny or use transdapter flexplate for my existing th350.
7. conversion motor mounts
8. ?????

I'm sure I'm forgetting things so your help is much appreciated.

1) Yes, get longtubes, I thought for a while about it, anything else would be a waste of money, you'd end up with LT's anyway.
2) Not sure about A-bodies, but I got a Mast for my swap, and it's super compact and really nice. If you're interested in one, find Daytonayellaz on here.
3) Fbody/GTO hug the block the tightest, Corvette acc's are nicer, because you can actually access the stuff and the Alt is on top
4) PS and Alt are the same bracket
5) Buy complete, Tank's Inc or check the LSX subforum for a 90's Caprice fuel tank swap for Abodies (super cheap).
6) 4l60e's are cheap. They also suck, but will work unless you build the motor.
7) Carshopinc
8) !!!!!!!

Any more questions, fire away.

[srh3trinity]

I like Dan's response to number 8.

[barraza]

Did you mean you found it for $1500 less than the Pace link above ? Where?

[71RS/SS396]

One thing you need to check on, I think the ecu is locked out which means you can't tune it, so if you start changing things ( like deleting the cats) you might have problems. I think it's locked so that they can get the smog legal cert.

[novajess1972]

Did you mean you found it for $1500 less than the Pace link above ? Where?

Yes. It was actually through Pace. They were running a deal on them. It said that it was the last one left before I purchased. I kind of thought it was some BS just to get people to buy, but after purchase I checked back on the site and it now says Not Available. Couldn't post the original link earlier and have someone snipe the last one out from under me. Sorry.

http://paceperformance.com/i-7134233-lcs-19244805-ls3-e-rod-engine-for-automatic-transmissions-old-part.html



One thing you need to check on, I think the ecu is locked out which means you can't tune it, so if you start changing things ( like deleting the cats) you might have problems. I think it's locked so that they can get the smog legal cert.

Damn! I will have to look into that. Thanks for the heads up.


1) Yes, get longtubes, I thought for a while about it, anything else would be a waste of money, you'd end up with LT's anyway.
2) Not sure about A-bodies, but I got a Mast for my swap, and it's super compact and really nice. If you're interested in one, find Daytonayellaz on here.
3) Fbody/GTO hug the block the tightest, Corvette acc's are nicer, because you can actually access the stuff and the Alt is on top
4) PS and Alt are the same bracket
5) Buy complete, Tank's Inc or check the LSX subforum for a 90's Caprice fuel tank swap for Abodies (super cheap).
6) 4l60e's are cheap. They also suck, but will work unless you build the motor.
7) Carshopinc
8) !!!!!!!

Any more questions, fire away.

Thanks, Dan! This will be very very helpful in my quest to source parts/accessories. I'm sure I'm not done with you, though. LOL.


The pedal bolts in but I cut the pedal rod and rewelded it to change the angle for comfort. I say you do it, I have an LS2 in my 67 Chevelle and love it.

Sweet!


We used the supplied DBW pedal...bolted right up. We may have drilled a couple holes for mounting, but in the scheme of things that we regularly make [or invent] that didn't even come up on the radar. :)

Even sweeter!

I appreciate everyone's input. I'm hoping to have her installed and on the road by Thanksgiving. That's ambitious, considering my schedule, but gonna shoot for it anyway.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I have a '69 Chevelle atthe shop right now for an engine swap...LS1/4L80E...and it is equipped with BRP/Musclerods mounts and 1 7/8 longtube headers (fit great), a GMPP "Musclecar" pan kit, and Kwik Performance accessory brackets. I don't have any pics right now, but I can get some in the morning if you are interested in seeing it. It has a cable-style throttle body, but we have done several cars with the GM DBW pedals, and while they aren't always ideal out of the box, they aren't too hard to mount up in just about anything. On a '69 Camaro we did recently (Trailblazer SS pedal), we combined the TBSS pedal with a nicer-looking Lokar pedal that was previously installed in the car. It was fairly easy to do, and was a nice touch to make it better match the brake pedal.

[novajess1972]

I have a '69 Chevelle atthe shop right now for an engine swap...LS1/4L80E...and it is equipped with BRP/Musclerods mounts and 1 7/8 longtube headers (fit great), a GMPP "Musclecar" pan kit, and Kwik Performance accessory brackets. I don't have any pics right now, but I can get some in the morning if you are interested in seeing it. It has a cable-style throttle body, but we have done several cars with the GM DBW pedals, and while they aren't always ideal out of the box, they aren't too hard to mount up in just about anything. On a '69 Camaro we did recently (Trailblazer SS pedal), we combined the TBSS pedal with a nicer-looking Lokar pedal that was previously installed in the car. It was fairly easy to do, and was a nice touch to make it better match the brake pedal.

Sounds sweet. Yes, I would really like to see pics. Get some up as soon as you can.

[MrQuick]

Yes. It was actually through Pace. They were running a deal on them. It said that it was the last one left before I purchased. I kind of thought it was some BS just to get people to buy, but after purchase I checked back on the site and it now says Not Available. Couldn't post the original link earlier and have someone snipe the last one out from under me. Sorry.



ahhh damn, i always miss the good stuff.

[cornfedbill]

Agreed!
Next order of business - Accessories and other necessary items for the swap.


Just don't try to use the truck accessory drive. It is more plentiful, but will run across the front of the throttle body.

Once when we were developing the LS4 intake, we used a truck for a mule for some sound level comparisons between several intake concepts. The LS intakes bolted right up, but required a snorkel to get the air around the drive. It was quite a mess. But it was a lot of fun while it lasted.

[novajess1972]

Just don't try to use the truck accessory drive. It is more plentiful, but will run across the front of the throttle body.

Once when we were developing the LS4 intake, we used a truck for a mule for some sound level comparisons between several intake concepts. The LS intakes bolted right up, but required a snorkel to get the air around the drive. It was quite a mess. But it was a lot of fun while it lasted.

Lol. Noted!

[MarkM66]

ahhh damn, i always miss the good stuff.

It shows: Limited Supply: only 1 remaining

Get it. :)

[novajess1972]

It shows: Limited Supply: only 1 remaining

Get it. :)

Sure is!

I canceled the order with Pace this morning. I mulled over it last night and would rather go with either:

1. LS3 with hot cam pushing it up to 480hp/475tq, as opposed to 430hp/424tq for $6600, or
2. Local LS2 out of a 2006 GTO that includes 4l65e with accessory drive, DBW pedal....all for $6000. I would just take that package, drop a cam in and go! As much as I want the LS3, the LS2+tranny+accessories is more cost effective package for me. Actually saves me a ton, as I would have to otherwise source out the tranny, acc drive, DBW pedal on top of the purchase price of the LS3.

Good luck to whomover buys the E-Rod LS3....she's now up for grabs!

[novajess1972]

Just purchased the LS2 and 4l65e package. Very excited about getting everything in one-stop-shopping! Plus, no waiting for shipping. Can pick it up local and take it straight to have cam swap. Will update on progress as we go.

I should change the title of this thread from Should I Pull The Trigger? to I Pulled The Trigger, Chased The Bullet Down, Reloaded The Gun, then Pulled The Trigger Again, But On A More Complete Package!

LOLOL

[Vicinity]

Start a build thread. :)

[novajess1972]

I plan to once I get started. I will admit that I struggle with build threads because I end up so involved with getting it done...that I oftern forget to take photos and document the build. I am surely going to try.

[Vicinity]

I plan to once I get started. I will admit that I struggle with build threads because I end up so involved with getting it done...that I oftern forget to take photos and document the build. I am surely going to try.

I do the same thing, even though I vowed not to on my latest thread, I've done even less updates then normal.

But to make up for it, when I finally get it running, I'm going to try and do a full run through of absolutely everything required for the swaps and what issues I bumped into.