I Am Cursed

[AintQik]

Or just really stupid or both. Very quick background. My 50 came with a 305, which was obviously just there for mock up. I built a lil 350 for it, but then was given a circle track motor that was built, but the driver of the car had family issues. (Dad owns the car). So I detuend it a bit figuring it had to be better than the thing I built and slapped it in. Sold the one I built. It lasted 550 miles. Cam chewed up 6 lifters, no real ide why, that usually happens on break in. But, it is what it is. I tried to save it, took it all apart and cleaned the inside and replaced the cam and lifters. Broke the cam in and it was running great. Then at idle it started to knock and welp, that was that. Just too much material in the bearings. A local guy had a nice little motor that I looked inside and it looked to be pretty tight. Very cheap and he is a pretty good local dude. I put that in and it sounds bad ass. Pulls hard. But, when the oil gets hot it knocks harder than the last one. (Different knock so its not some accessory component that was common to both engines). Although to oil pressure is good, this one has to come out too.

I'm doing all this on weekend at night. I'm in the military and working out of DC. I leave Fri night, spend time with my son Sat morning and hwen he takes a nap I thrash in the shop. Its killin me. When I got this last motor in I was exhausted, and now pretty bummed I've got to do it all again. I've build over 50 cars and never, never had a motor go bad except one lifter that collapsed on an LS2. Maybe I'm getting all my dues at once. The good news is I have a nice collection of .010 blocks lying around now. But, who uses old school chevy motors anymore? LOL

In search of motor, or engine if we want to be technical, #5. I really dont have the energy or money to do this much more.
rj

[MrQuick]

stop using used motors? that would be a great start.

[AintQik]

Just one was used and yes, we're gonna stop that right away lol.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

The curse is the "working the insides" of an old motor.. its old!


start with swapping in an LS and be done with it.. and make sure its a 5.3 or at least a 4.8

dime a dozen motors, super reliable, countless support, and awesome starting places that the world respects..


and im prouuuud to beee an Americaaaannn!

[shortrack]

With an LS as long as your car can't pull any serious G's you're ok. If it can they blow up

[AintQik]

I've built many LSX motors and made stupid power with them. No need to convert me I'm already on the band wagon. Last one made 763/678. I've already made it clear that if I have anymore issues I'm going modern. Problem is I'd have to change most everything, tranny, driveshaft, etc. I just want to tool around some local shows before I rebuild the entire thing.

Its a 50 Chevy pickup. I don't pull many G's.... yet. lol

[BonzoHansen]

I know a guy in NJ with a brand new 502 short block just looking for a place to be....

[MrQuick]

I've built many LSX motors and made stupid power with them. No need to convert me I'm already on the band wagon. Last one made 763/678. I've already made it clear that if I have anymore issues I'm going modern. Problem is I'd have to change most everything, tranny, driveshaft, etc. I just want to tool around some local shows before I rebuild the entire thing.

Its a 50 Chevy pickup. I don't pull many G's.... yet. lol

just think about it....50 pick up that doesn't leak oil, easy to work on and may get 15 miles per gallon. Its just a drop in right? LOL

[MonzaRacer]

Ok so the first engine ate a cam, question, did you put a cam in for the detune, also IF it was "race" engine did you drop the valve spring pressure back down to normal specs? Also what oil did you use to break it in. ALWAYS treat a new install as if it was freshest engine you have ever done. Comp makes a high zinc oil just for this.
The good fellas engine knocking as well,,hmm seems like you may have an issue your not finding. first of all I understand the thrash and dash idea. Had to do lots of that in my lifetime.
So maybe looking into WHY two engines fragged might be in order. If it ate bearings, which ones. Rod bearings with trash may be crank was dirty, main bearings with trash, block wasnt clean. Just looking at pistons and rods may not find issue by eye ball.
If you have trashed main thrust the converter may not be seating all the way or the crank end may have been burred and not letting it slide. Or bent flexplate.
As for swapping in an LSx, heck I even though about it till I looked at ignition, headers, mounts, swapping converters, trans, brackets, etc.
For anyone who thinks LSx is so great, take a step back, LOOK at what you recommend. Heck I went looking at it and headers for my Caprice would have been $650. GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK. I dont have that in my 454. IS it new and "improved" nope but all my spare parts work and I can buy them for heck of a lot less.
As for all the benefits of LSx, yeah, yeah, and I have a buddy who built an 18deg drag engine when all the other big name guys were just getting into it,, now you can replicate his $35k race engine for less than $10k. BUT he was cutting edge, and what 5 or 6 yrs later he wins Div3 Super Pro last year with small block door car, built 20 yrs ago, yeah 20 yrs ago, with a early 80s mild steel Alston Pro gas chassis, not late model tube frame stuff.
I understand no time or no cash, in that boat right now. Intended to hit local big cruise/show this weekend,,, car still not even started due to lack of time/funds.
Take one of both blocks to local machine shop, get them cleaned right, take little extra time and put it together your self, bearings/rings are cheap on ebay, have crank/rods/pistons checked also. If it ran ok either set of heads will suffice. Take two or more and make a good one, but verify all parts as best as you can. There has to be a reason why the second engine makes noise, no oil pressure, loose part, too much clearance. Heck it is not that hard to pull an sbc down to inspect.
I understand time and energy. Last few jobs took my edge away. My current job is showing me I still have it. I even have the 11 yr dealer tech asking questions! Now if I just had a garage of my own,,,,,.
That second engine, may just need little work rather than complete overhaul. Calm down, look at everything critically.
Good Luck

[AintQik]

I'll take the 502..... if its free!

Lol, I trust ya Scott, but after the ordeal I've been through I think I'm going to build one myself. I have a friend that is an NHRA hall o famer and he knows everyone and their brother. Hemi guy, but he is trying to get me to have his machinist build the motor and put one of his twin turbo kits on it. He is nuts, but it sounds like fun. Funds and time always in high demand.

Lee, I am calming down and that is sort of the intent of posting my stupid business on the ole interweb. Just vent, get some perspective and move on. I can fix it, I always do. Its just a PITA. I've run LSX motors for a while and I wanted a break. Just wanted to play with carbs again. I swear by the LS motors if for nothing else the damn things don't leak! :) I love them. I also am very aware that there could be some contributing outside factor to tear the 2 motors up. However, the only thing common to them both is the Muncie 4 sp, flywheel, clutch, driveshaft and the balancer. Both engines had very different knocks. It would make my day to find some other issue.

I do have a question thinking about it. Like I said I've never had a motor go bad before other than breaking a roller off a lifter. With a knock or bad rod or main bearing, will the oil pressure always be low? Will it be low at idle and go up with RPM or always stya low? This thing still has decent oil pressure. When hot, (and knocking) it falls a little, but if it were not making noise I wouldn't even think about it. Wail on it and it hits 60psi. I would imagine if it were this bad it could not make pressure, but I really don't know. If you guys can confirm this is odd, I may look into it a bit. First thing I will do is get a second gauge in there to confirm my readings. (I always do this) But, I suspect the oil thing is just a fluke.

Since I have a few of you along for the ride I will explain the noise a little bit more.
When I first fired it up it sounded fine. I did not break it in with any additive or hold it at any RPM as it was a running motor. I usually follow break in proceedures and prime a new engine but did not for this one other than going through and making sure the valves were adjusted while cold, then again hot. After it warmed up and was adjusted I blipped the throttle and as it settled down in rpm I hear a bit of a shutter. I thought it was the alternator bearing actually at first. That kind of noise. I took the belt off and it was still there. It was slight and although concerned, I wasn't too uptight about it. Tuned it a bit more then took it out on the street. No noise, all was well, just that slight grumble off rpm. Then I wrapped it up and that is when the knock is loud. It sounds like you are smacking the fuel pump rod up against the block. Nothing has changed, same grumble, same knock no worse no better. When its cold its pretty quiet. I'm thinking a rod.

Lee to answer your questions, and I appreciate the input, The first motor had a pretty nasty solid cam on a 110 lobe seperation. My intent was to get it broke in then swap cams. It was a circle track motor so made to turn high RPM. When I say detuned it, I just ran less timing, a differetn carb and ran street accessories on it not the stuff we would have in the racecar. Never got around to fully converting it, but I do see your point in valve spring pressures. I broke it in using Rotella, which I do in a pinch and there were no issues. 500 miles later the lifters started going away. Took the cam out and replaced it with a hyd, more street friendly cam. Cleaned any debris I found, changed the oil pump and pan. Broke the cam in with Comp Cams break in additive and Castrol 10-40 oil. Primed. No issues during 30 mins of break in following advertised method. Took the motor off the break in RPM and allowed it to settle to idle. Knocking like hell. Right before I pulled I beat the ever living snot out of it and wide open or under load it makes zero noise. Its only at idle. Opposite of this new one.