Opinions on a new to me daily driver

[srh3trinity]

My current DD is holding strong, but is about to start costing some money in maintenance. In the coming months, I will be looking for a new DD. I want something that is reasonably priced, gets fair MPG and rides well. I will be buying used and budget is sub-25-30K as I plan on funnelling my money into my PT project and not a DD. I have a toddler and car seat, so I will need four doors and I don't care for SUV's (have one for the family car) and probably won't buy a truck due to the sheer number of miles I drive and my needs. I am thinking of a Cadillac CTS with a 3.6 (newest generation and plenty of these gently used for around 25K), used Buick GS (not many out there yet, unsure what used prices will be), Audi A4 or A6 (upper end of price range), or a BMW 328 or 528 (upper end of price range). The fall back plan would be to get a Camry or an Accord and stay on the cheap. They would be mostly stock, maybe wheels/tires but otherwise just for going up and down the road in comfort. I am interested in hearing people's opinions because I know you guys spend far more time in your DD than in your PT car.

[compos mentis]

That thread is here...

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=35753

[srh3trinity]

That was a good thread. I had also considered a Maxima or G35/37. Those came up in the other thread. It would be nice to have some level of fun and practicality rolled into one. There were about three pages of AMG discussion on the other thread and I don't think that would be on my list due to MPG's, but that would be a nice choice if I lived close to work.

[79-TA]

Avoid the Cam/cords at all costs. Your soul will thank you.

[compos mentis]

Yeah, some of those AMG's get the blood moving for a lot of us :D

Do you have a target mpg figure?

You mentioned the Buick GS, so 4 cyl is ok, right?

I sat in one of those and liked the roominess. The reviews of those were good but I haven't read feedback from owners yet.

[srh3trinity]

Avoid the Cam/cords at all costs. Your soul will thank you.
Yeah, but either would be an upgrade from a Corrolla that I inherited from my wife when we upgraded her vehicle. I haven't had a vehicle that I enjoyed driving since I traded in my LS1 Z28 in 2005.

[BuddyP]

I am thinking of a Cadillac CTS with a 3.6 (newest generation and plenty of these gently used for around 25K), used Buick GS (not many out there yet, unsure what used prices will be), Audi A4 or A6 (upper end of price range), or a BMW 328 or 528 (upper end of price range).

Doh! and my DD is a '00 Alero with 331,XXX miles, rusted out hood and quarters and delaminated dash vinyl!

[srh3trinity]

Yeah, some of those AMG's get the blood moving for a lot of us :D

Do you have a target mpg figure?

You mentioned the Buick GS, so 4 cyl is ok, right?

I sat in one of those and liked the roominess. The reviews of those were good but I haven't read feedback from owners yet.

No target MPG in particular, but better than 27 on the highway seems to be a reasonable number. My job is about 60 miles away, but I don't make the commute every day as I work an odd schedule. I like the GS a lot, but I think the price is going to stay high on them just due to low production numbers. Also, I have to stick with an automatic since my wife won't drive stick and my car is traditionally the running around town car. I think the GS just recently came out with the Auto option, the early cars were sticks. I had also thought about the g8, but I would want to go with the GT and that would kill the MPG aspect of the equation.

[twosaturns]

Avoid the Cam/cords at all costs. Your soul will thank you.
lolz...
but keep it in perspective; a DD is just that- something to get you to work safely, easily, comfortably, and starts up every morning reliably.
my beater $300, 287K mile, 4cyl auto '93 camry is the best DD I've had, seriously. it starts up every morning, is quiet and comfy, gets 27mpg, and I don't care about how it looks or where I park and no one will try to break into it. parts are cheap and it's easy to work on, it's awesome!

[Rotary]

You could look at a used Vw rabbit tdi if you want get 40+mpg on the freeways, they make four door versions and they handle pretty well. But long term maintenance is more than other cars. It obviously wouldnt be as enjoyable as a rwd dd.

[Johnny Blaze]

Can't help, my daily driver is a 1969! Its a lot cheaper and will retain more value than the new stuff! Not to mention a lot cooler!

[Chevelle598bb]

I have a 12 Charger SXT with V6 and 8 speed auto trans. I traded my truck in a while back on it and have been very happy so far. It is rated at 23 city and 31 hwy. My combined travels to work net me 28 mpg or so. It is very comfortable, good ride, decent power (300 hp), easy maintainece and looks ok for a new 4 dr ride. Plus it's rear wheel drive and if needed you can turn off the traction control and smoke em. The only issue was I had to hold a gun to my head to buy a dodge. Lol

[srh3trinity]

I would have the same struggle buying a Dodge. The Charger is a nice looking car though. I have a hard time buying a v6 when there is a v8 available just because you would always be settling on some level. With the CTS vs. CTS-V, I can't really write the check for the v8 so it makes it a little easier to swallow.

[19,69camaro]

What about a BMW 335ci? Inline 6 twin turbo that with a simple chip can make 400hp. Plus you can get a 30k mile one for $25k all day long.

[JMitch19]

We leased my wife a new Turbo Regal last summer. We leased it before the GS was out. I have a good friend who is a tuner. We were looking at doing a few upgrades. He told me that the additional HP the GS has is all in the calibration and that the powertrains are identical. The GS calibration can be loaded into the standard turbo Regal. With a ZZP downpipe and intake a friends turbo Regal made 318whp on e85 with an auto trans. The baseline hp was 224. That's a pretty good increase for just a downpipe, intake, and tune.

The brakes and appearance differences on the GS are nice, but if you can find a well priced Turbo Regal I suggest taking a look. Ours is a 6 speed manual which is rare. With my wife driving ours averages 29-30 mpg with mixed highway/city driving. Ours has the Active Drive Control(adjustable suspension) it really is a fun DD. We haven't done any performance mods yet, but with a few small upgrades I think it will be a really fun car.

[class67]

For daily driving and mileage just keep it practical! at least that is where i'm at these days. Stick with the Camry / accord train of thought. The Accord EX-L is a great car, creature comforts, quiet and comfortable with plenty of power. Pluse, they hold their value! The european cars are definately nice but cost an arm and a leg to maintain and even more if something major goes wrong. The CTS is a nice car (by all means) but I don't trust them after 100k (although, I wish I could). This is JMO!!!

[srh3trinity]

I looked at the Turbo Regal too, they can be had for cheap and I like the idea of an ecotec. I didn't know you could pick up so much with a tune. I am liking the CTS more and more. I didn't realize the 3.6 was RWD and for a six, it has a nice exhaust note. So, I am 32 and Buick and Cadillac have my interest, what is happening to me?

[compos mentis]

We replaced my wife's newer SUV after it got totaled with an older Lexus LS 400. Decent highway mileage and it is a very comfortable car to spend time in. Amazing build quality, so even if they have a bunch of miles on them they are still reliable and stay tight cars generally. Did a lot of research on used 4 door V8 sedans and the Lexus came out on top.

I tried to get her interested in a newer SUV recently, but she wants to keep her 180K mile Lexus LS 400 instead.

I drive it occasionally and totally understand her point. They are that good IMO.

I found a great resource for tech help, the fanatical LS 400 owners group at http://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-models-10/ has really been a big help to me.

One thing that surprised me is they are not big cars. About the same length as the new Accords.

[mell69]

This is just one persons personal experience so take it for what it's worth. I drove an Audi A4 1.8 years ago and liked it until kids came along and the car seats barely fit in the back seat. Moved to a used A6 2.7T with about 40,000 mile on it. Loved driving this car but only got about 23 mpg. I put about 30,000 miles a year on my car and the Audi absolutely ate rear tires. Not to mention after about 100,000 miles it seemed like it was in the shop every other week. Finally ditched it at 150,000 miles when it needed about $6000 worth of repairs. I bought an '08 Acura TL last October with under 30,000 miles for just under $20,000. By far my favorite DD I've owned. Nice looking car, roomy, decent performance and I'm averaging 30 MPG. Also Honda's legendary reliability. And there's always the S-line for a little more performance ;)

[srh3trinity]

The TL has recently caught my eye. I will look into it a little more. One of my concerns with the A4 was the rear seat size and stepping up to an A6 would be a pricey jump.

[SickSpeedMonte]

Take a close look at the 3.6 in the CTS... I've heard rumors that they are lemons.

I'd love a 4cyl turbo ATS, but I can't believe the price tag on those things and it will be a while before there is a used market as they just came out or are about to... I haven't seen an ATS on the road, just at the auto show.

A friend had a TT A6 and it cost him an arm and a leg for every little thing.

I didnt know the 335's were in the $25k range... BMW's always seemed really over-priced compared to the MB's when I was looking. -On edit, I just searched Autotrader and found 1 within 100 miles with <30k miles under $25k...

[srh3trinity]

I like the look of the ATS too, nowhere near what I want to spend on a car.

[newsshooter23]

My DD is a Pontiac G8 GT...that's 6.0L, 4 doors, RWD, and a ****-ton of fun for your "mid-20's" $$ range...oh, I forgot to mention...18 city/26 hwy

[CreepinDeth]

My current DD is holding strong, but is about to start costing some money in maintenance.

Maintaining a car is cheaper then the cost of a car payment when you get right down to the reality of it.
So if putting more money towards your PT car is your primary objective, keep the DD you have and fix it.

For daily driving and mileage just keep it practical! at least that is where i'm at these days. Stick with the Camry / accord train of thought. The Accord EX-L is a great car, creature comforts, quiet and comfortable with plenty of power. Pluse, they hold their value! The european cars are definately nice but cost an arm and a leg to maintain and even more if something major goes wrong. The CTS is a nice car (by all means) but I don't trust them after 100k (although, I wish I could). This is JMO!!!

I'm in this camp of thought. But 2007+ Camry blows away Accords in comfort and style.
I can't trust Eurocrap , especially VW/Audi with their mixed reliability rankings.
THe only happy owners I've met are one's that bought new and didn't own them long enough to know better.

Everything from Toyota motor corp for the 2012 Vehicle Dependability surveys was in the top 5 this year.
I drive a used Lexus for a daily driver I bought 4.5 years ago so that I could pay off my student loans
and have an ultra-reliable DD I didn't have to worry about. I ended up buying my mother one too.

Even Scion, Toyota motor corp's ENTRY level blue collar brand beat out the Euro-turds.
VW and Audi I will never own one. BMW maybe.....but I prefer Lexus' reliability.
Leader for 15 of the past 16 years or whatever it's been.

Cadillac's are nice, but I'm also in the same camp of thought that once they hit 100K good luck.
Buick's got a VERY nice collection of new vehicles, and if I was buying domestic that's what I'd
be looking at besides the new 2014 Impala that's coming out. If Chevy decides to really build
the 2013 Cruze with a diesel, I'll be buying one of those too.

Chrysler products , YEAH RIGHT!!!! All 4 brands at the very bottom of the barrel for reliability.
Keep in mind this is for 2009 model year vehicles AFTER 3 years of ownership.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[MonzaRacer]

Buy an older car thats solid and cheap, run it through a shop that can do regualr stuf, tires, suspension, brakes fluids, all the critical stuff. Spend cash fixing up a slightly older car and if paint isnt good even paint tit to keep from rusting. THEN drive the wheels off it. Im looking at talking my mom out of her 94 Olds 98 as she has Grandmas 99 LHS. I have to do some maintenance on the LHS. Hoping the 98 can go to 250k like my Cavalier, or farther. $1000 to $2500 car, $1000 in fix up and drive till it drops, engine trans goes, swap in another. Till it rusts apart, drive. Then while driving this one put car payments in bank and when it hits large amount, do it again. Its not hard to find decent older cars and have them look nice and be reliable. And besides you dont have to have full coverage if you dont want. I know a guy making $5k a month, spends $1k on his car and $800 on wifes van a month,,,, Ridiculous.

[79-TA]

The answer to the daily driver question is Miata . . . oh wait, you said four doors. Two Miatas!




https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Initial quality surveys are not the perfect metric nor the end all be all of things. I don't like new Chryslers, very well, but in practical terms you're looking at whether your new car has 1 problem vs 2 problems initially. These problems vary in severity and can even be something minor as a design that the consumer finds annoying.

[srh3trinity]

This thread has had more legs than I would have thought. I test drove an Audi A4 and a BMW 335i coupe the other day. I liked the 335i coupe a lot, but would probably wind up buying a sedan if I went the BMW route. It was different than other "powerful" cars that I have driven. Much more refined. I wasn't blown away by the A4, but it had the CVT. Still unclear about what I will buy, but I am probably 2-3 months from making a decision. In regards to sinking more money in my current Corolla, I will probably not go that route. Part of the reasoning behind upgrading to a newer car is trying to find something that walks the line between being somewhat practical and more fun to drive. The Corolla is less than inspiring for the most part. It will probably hang around in the stable as a commuter car and run-around town car. It is paid for and costs very little to keep on the road.

[6'9"Witha69]

For a DD, I love my '08 HHR SS. 90k+ miles, 28+ MPG commuting, room to haul stuff around and I can eat a canyon anytime I like. The LNF engine (ECOTEC 2.0T I4) is an excellent engine and if GM has kept with the trend, theyu have a tune available that doesn't void the warranty. THe '09 and up also have a Brembo brake option. And you can buy them all day long under $20k and under 50k miles.

A Charger/300 or a Malibu/Impala are my only other suggestions. But like others have said, put a gun to my head to buy a Dodge/Chrysler anything.

Avoid the Euro cars at all costs. The suspensions, just like the Caddies, are supreme $$ to replace. All this active ride, CVTSS, etc is a major failure point for the luxury brands and causes most folks to dump the cars at the first sign of suspension problems. That becomes your problem.

My wife has had 2 new cars since I bought the HHR, I won't give it up. It strikes the balance you describe exactly. I drive it 5 days a week. Only reason I don't drive it on the weekends is I drive my 04 Z71 or the Camaro.

[srh3trinity]

For a DD, I love my '08 HHR SS. 90k+ miles, 28+ MPG commuting, room to haul stuff around and I can eat a canyon anytime I like. The LNF engine (ECOTEC 2.0T I4) is an excellent engine and if GM has kept with the trend, theyu have a tune available that doesn't void the warranty. THe '09 and up also have a Brembo brake option. And you can buy them all day long under $20k and under 50k miles.

A Charger/300 or a Malibu/Impala are my only other suggestions. But like others have said, put a gun to my head to buy a Dodge/Chrysler anything.

Avoid the Euro cars at all costs. The suspensions, just like the Caddies, are supreme $$ to replace. All this active ride, CVTSS, etc is a major failure point for the luxury brands and causes most folks to dump the cars at the first sign of suspension problems. That becomes your problem.

My wife has had 2 new cars since I bought the HHR, I won't give it up. It strikes the balance you describe exactly. I drive it 5 days a week. Only reason I don't drive it on the weekends is I drive my 04 Z71 or the Camaro.

I have love/hate feelings for the HHR. Some days I think it looks cool, others not so much. I like the idea behind it and the idea of a turbo 4.

[Chris02rex]

Depending on where you live you might like some type of subaru. Im a little biased toward them but there getting super popular and have good reliability. You could get a sti for a fun driver too. Plenty of those under 30k.

[srh3trinity]

Depending on where you live you might like some type of subaru. Im a little biased toward them but there getting super popular and have good reliability. You could get a sti for a fun driver too. Plenty of those under 30k.
A WRX has crossed my mind, I guess I am getting a little older but was thinking more along the lines of something that is comfortable on my long drives. I have a buddy that has a WRX and it is great, but harsh at times. That could probably be fixed with a different wheel/tire choice.

[twosaturns]

I've been looking at '99 or so Lexus GS300's. ones in awesome condition are showing on ebay like $9-13 IIRC. 2JZ, RWD, toyota reliability, what more do you need in a DD?

[1973ta]

I'm with all the other folks on the euros... You might have it a while and love it... You might end up being VERY sorry when it breaks. I run a franchise car dealership so I get to drive (and fix) lots of different types of used cars we buy and sell. I have seen/ been burned by multiple Audis that had issues with the CVT, one even without a chk engine light on. Stay away from their automatics. BMWs are nice for the money but expensive and hard to fix. I won't even keep vw's on the lot anymore. It seems like there is a problem with almost every one that comes in with high miles. For a daily driver you can't beat a honda or Toyota product. Cheap to maintain, simple, great mpg and they will be very easy to sell when your done with it. There's always someone that will buy one regardless of the miles you put on it.
I would go drive an Acura TL. They are awesome cars, are bulletproof reliable, pretty fun to drive for a front wheel drive car, and will always have great resale value. If you look at these, pay attention to the center console... The "leather" on them is thin and can wear pretty bad. The dealer can get it re-covered if needed. (if your buying from a dealer). Also if you get a TL step up to a car with NAV. It will make it MUCH easier to sell down the road.

Infinity makes a nice car too (and rear wheel drive), but won't age as well as a Lexus or Acura.

[1973ta]

......need to clarify on the TL's I mentioned... be careful of TL's from 2004-2006. There were some transmission issues on some of the automatics (Torque Convertors). Not all of them, but who knows if your getting a good one. Most of the issues were worked out by 2007 and 2008 but the car was changed in 2009 and no more issues from that year on. The 2009's are going for about $23k. It's about 800-900 more for NAV and another $1000 for the all-wheel-drive. The AWD ones are very fun to drive.

I use a program at work that I can input a car into and it will show me every one (same year and model) for sale on the net around me (up to 500miles), from private or dealer so I can price mine competitively. When you decide on what you want I would be happy to help you locate one. I can give you a screen shot showing a list that are for sale with the link and phone number to call them.

[srh3trinity]

Great input. The current generation TL is nice. I haven't driven one yet. I have done enough research to know that the BMW or Audi will be expensive to maintain and a pricey buy in to start with. I have decided against them for now. I plan to drive a few Lexus products next.

[Ash]

315 miles a week work commute here. I've spent a good amount of time thinking about this subject, and I want to be ready if I unexpectedly have to replace mine. Personally, I'll never spend over $7,000 for a mile-sponge DD. As long as it's mechanically sound, a fraction of the money saved can go to improvements...the $10,000 saved can go towards you're project. 87 Vs 93 octane price difference adds up over the year, and money saved would offset the added operational cost of constant oil changes. Not trying to be preachy on the economics of it, but that's how I look at it. The Four steps below can transform most any pedestrian commuter into a decent car. May not scream awesome or haul ass, but if it dives well, is comfortable, and economical....

Cadillac Quiet = $350 worth of sound deadener
Spirited Handling = Swaybars, shocks & springs/coil-overs, tower braces, Polly bushings
Premium Sound = Head unit, modest 2 channel for fronts, mono amp for Bass, Single 10" sub, and co-axles (even the lower level brand name gear sounds better than a lot of stock systems)
Seats: =If the front seats suck, replace the driver seat with a quality aftermarket piece.




Example: 2004 ford focus ZX5 4 door Hatch (last year of the MK1 hatch and comes well equipped standard).

Car:
-------------------------------
One local for $5,950 w/ 86,000 miles. Post negotiation...at most $5,500.

Suspension:
--------------------------------
OEM endlinks= $53.00
Steeda front strut brace = $68.00
FSWerks Rear Strut/Stress Bar = $76.00
CFM Lower four point brace = $175.00
CFM Rear Shock Mount Shims = $25.00
Ford Racing SVT spec OEM shocks/Springs/Rear 21MM sway bar kit = $296.00
Prothane Bushing Kit = $200.00 (front and rear bumpstops, front and rear sway bar bushings, front and rear control arm bushings, rear sway bar endlinks, rear spring isolators, and rear trailing arm bushings)


Wheels & Brakes
---------------------------
Russel brake lines: $93.00
Esm 004 17x8: $696.00



Appearance
-------------------------
OEM ZX5 SVT Bumpers and skirts, Euro or SVT grill & headlights.




Just an example. If you're wife drove stick though....I'd say get a 4 Door Integra and go for the Odyssey J35 V6 + TL 6 speed Swap. 240 HP/240 TQ and 30+ MPG. This is the one that I'm pining for.

[srh3trinity]

Since I am planning ahead down the road, this gives me a lot of time (maybe too much) to think and re-think this choice. If I go with a Lexus or Acura offering, I will probably look for a car with closer to 50K on the clock. This brings the price down a bit and I think I can trust one of these more than a BMW or Audi. I keep hearing that people wouldn't own some of these cars without warranty coverage since the repairs are so pricey. I tend to trust the longevity of a Lexus or Acura more based on their parent companies and from personal experience with Hondas and Toyotas.

[srh3trinity]

Update: Picked up an 09 G8 GT yesterday. Less than 23k on the clock. Solo catback installed. Very clean. Got about 28mpg on the drive home on the interstate. Feels very healthy around town. Not a give fan of the DOD with the exhaust but I can live with it for now. May add some bullets or something.

[LS6 Tommy]

Maintaining a car is cheaper then the cost of a car payment when you get right down to the reality of it.
So if putting more money towards your PT car is your primary objective, keep the DD you have and fix it.


I'm in this camp of thought. But 2007+ Camry blows away Accords in comfort and style.
I can't trust Eurocrap , especially VW/Audi with their mixed reliability rankings.
THe only happy owners I've met are one's that bought new and didn't own them long enough to know better.

Everything from Toyota motor corp for the 2012 Vehicle Dependability surveys was in the top 5 this year.
I drive a used Lexus for a daily driver I bought 4.5 years ago so that I could pay off my student loans
and have an ultra-reliable DD I didn't have to worry about. I ended up buying my mother one too.

Even Scion, Toyota motor corp's ENTRY level blue collar brand beat out the Euro-turds.
VW and Audi I will never own one. BMW maybe.....but I prefer Lexus' reliability.
Leader for 15 of the past 16 years or whatever it's been.

Cadillac's are nice, but I'm also in the same camp of thought that once they hit 100K good luck.
Buick's got a VERY nice collection of new vehicles, and if I was buying domestic that's what I'd
be looking at besides the new 2014 Impala that's coming out. If Chevy decides to really build
the 2013 Cruze with a diesel, I'll be buying one of those too.

Chrysler products , YEAH RIGHT!!!! All 4 brands at the very bottom of the barrel for reliability.
Keep in mind this is for 2009 model year vehicles AFTER 3 years of ownership.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


That has to be the BIGGEST fudged survey in the industry... Hate to burst JD's bubble, but Subaru has held some of the highest TSI ratings for quite a while. Those are the ratings the manufacturers actually use...

They did, however, peg Chrysler right...:rotfl:

Tommy

[icemanrd19]

i almost went with a g8 but i didnt like the interior. I ended up with a new maxima.

[LS6 Tommy]

A WRX has crossed my mind, I guess I am getting a little older but was thinking more along the lines of something that is comfortable on my long drives. I have a buddy that has a WRX and it is great, but harsh at times. That could probably be fixed with a different wheel/tire choice.


My DD is an 11 WRX. It's never harsh. Heck, my 03 Mazda 6S Sport rode worse. It's one of the most balanced cars I've driven in a while. Its also one of the most fun. its a real giggle machine. It's unstoppable in any weather, comfortable, has decent creature comforts & I knock down 23.8 mpg daily driving average. It'll do better than 25 highway if driven conservatively, too. Granted, if you lean on the right hand pedal a little that drops...

You could look at a used Legacy GT or a new Legacy R. Almost the same power as a WRX but in a nicer "cruiser".

Yeah, I know I mentioned Subies in the post about the J.D. reliability survey. You might say I'm biased, but I never owned one before & did a LOT of research first. They really do get good ratings...

Congrats on the G8. I looked into them & even drove one or two. I really liked it, but I just can't have a rear drive DD in my line of work. I gotta be there, especially when the roads are bad.

Tommy

[srh3trinity]

I like Subarus a lot. The WRX is a great car. I looked at the Legacy GT, but didn't like the look of the current model. Wife won't drive a drive a stick, so a WRX was off the list.

[Todd in Vancouver]

Having been a district manager for European and Japanese manufacturers I've seen the good and the bad. I'm currently working for a large aftermarket repair company and I can tell you after decades in the industry that pound for pound nothing will outdo a decent Japanese car.

My personal preference is the Nissan line-up as they have a nice mix of performance driven and quality vehicles. But, as I needed something for work and that I could go get stuff for my PT build and haul my dog around I now have a Honda Ridgeline. I really like the Infiniti line as well but you really just need to find the best balance on what you need.

I get asked a lot from people what to buy so I will share with you what I tell everyone. Take the price of the car and deduct what a 5 year older version is selling for and that will give you a true cost and then add the maintanence cost over the 5 years and you now have a true cost of ownership. That last part will usually kill off most of the European models.