Brake lines need pointers

[snappytravis]

I am just about ready to start running brake lines on 69 camaro, It has art morrison chassis, I am not sure witch direction to go, I thought about stainless, everyone says it's tought to work with, I thought about copper nickel, Just not to hip on the copper looking color, I thought about a roll of the black coated tubing that they use on the newer vehicles. If you order it in a roll, Is it hard to get straigh again? I also thought about mounting proportioning valve under car on frame so It would be out of vision. I also would like to know what you guys are using for clamps to attach it to the frame? or if you have any pics. I would imagine run the brake line down the drivers side and fuel lines down the pass side? Also what are you using for the t fitting on the front and where would be a good place for it? thanks for the advice just want to do it once and be done. I have willwood mc with hydratech booster 6 piston front and 4 on the rear

[diesel25lrs]

Travis,
I went the cheaper route and used a 25' roll of aluminum and it straightened out nicely. I ran it down the drivers side, mounted the T block just inside my frame rail DS. Clamps used were the 1/8 rubberized you get at Lowes, one evey 2' or so. Not hard to do- just time consuming and had to redo 2 of the flares during bleeding. There may be some pics on my thread of it...

[snappytravis]

Travis,
I went the cheaper route and used a 25' roll of aluminum and it straightened out nicely. I ran it down the drivers side, mounted the T block just inside my frame rail DS. Clamps used were the 1/8 rubberized you get at Lowes, one evey 2' or so. Not hard to do- just time consuming and had to redo 2 of the flares during bleeding. There may be some pics on my thread of it...

that's sounds way to easy, I like to do stuff the hard way, lol, I will check out your pics thanks for the advice buddy!

[cheapthrillz]

It's hard to get the roll stuff straight again.... is your chassis installed yet? If not, I would determine what lengths you need and just get some straight sticks. I used regular steel tubing that was coated in a roll... it flared easy and bent easy.....

[parsonsj]

To straighten a roll (redneck style):

Unroll it as best you can and securely attach it to something in your garage. Securely. Attach. It. Like to a 1/2" bolt anchored in the garage floor.

Next, securely attach the other end of the semi-straightened roll to your hitch or bumper or the frame of your truck. Get your keys, start the vehicle up and slowly pull the slack out of the tube. Easy does it: just let the vehicle idle while you gently ease off the brake. You'll find the weak point in you attachment strategies, but hopefully will have a straight tube when you're done.

[snappytravis]

lol, I'm right smack in the middle of wyoming, everything is redneck style, that sounds like a pretty good idea. thanks

[cheapthrillz]

To straighten a roll (redneck style):

Unroll it as best you can and securely attach it to something in your garage. Securely. Attach. It. Like to a 1/2" bolt anchored in the garage floor.

Next, securely attach the other end of the semi-straightened roll to your hitch or bumper or the frame of your truck. Get your keys, start the vehicle up and slowly pull the slack out of the tube. Easy does it: just let the vehicle idle while you gently ease off the brake. You'll find the weak point in you attachment strategies, but hopefully will have a straight tube when you're done.

lol Awesome!

Didn't know you were capable JP.... lol

[NOT A TA]

To unroll it put your foot on the end of it on the floor and unroll it against the floor. If you need a good size length move your foot forward and keep unrolling. The rubber coated clamps are referred to as Adel clamps if you're trying to source them. Brake line is easy, 3/8 steel fuel line is a little more of a challenge but can still be done against the floor.

[jpgolf14]

Travis,
I went the cheaper route and used a 25' roll of aluminum and it straightened out nicely. I ran it down the drivers side, mounted the T block just inside my frame rail DS. Clamps used were the 1/8 rubberized you get at Lowes, one evey 2' or so. Not hard to do- just time consuming and had to redo 2 of the flares during bleeding. There may be some pics on my thread of it...

Man, aluminum brake lines sound like a terrible idea to me. First of all depending on the kind of AL used, you are almost certainly giving up a lot of strength going with aluminum. Second AL is only 1/3 as stiff as steel. So you will have 3x the flex in the line under braking. What wall thickness are you using?

[jpgolf14]

I am just about ready to start running brake lines on 69 camaro, It has art morrison chassis, I am not sure witch direction to go, I thought about stainless, everyone says it's tought to work with, I thought about copper nickel, Just not to hip on the copper looking color, I thought about a roll of the black coated tubing that they use on the newer vehicles. If you order it in a roll, Is it hard to get straigh again? I also thought about mounting proportioning valve under car on frame so It would be out of vision. I also would like to know what you guys are using for clamps to attach it to the frame? or if you have any pics. I would imagine run the brake line down the drivers side and fuel lines down the pass side? Also what are you using for the t fitting on the front and where would be a good place for it? thanks for the advice just want to do it once and be done. I have willwood mc with hydratech booster 6 piston front and 4 on the rear

I just finished bending a hard line for my differential. I used 0.028" wall seamless stainless. I didn't find it hard at all to work with. This is with decent tools. I found it bent and flared pretty easily. This was with single flares. I had no fun trying to double flare it without cracking.

Adel clamps are a good choice. I like rivnuts to attach stuff like the adel clamps to hollow frame rails. Much nicer than sheet metal screws.

Regarding the color. Another option is to use a cover. The cover is nice b/c it comes in many colors and provides abrasion resistance as well. This is my brake line with Techflex flame resistant cover.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/7941741826_86b315e99d_h-1.jpg

[Classic Nova & Performance]

Like jpgolf14 said, trying to do double flares with SS lines is tough. If you are using AN fittings its not bad too bad as long as you have good tools. I have used both steel & stainless with success as long as you pay attention to the details ie: straight ends, good flares, etc. I would avoid aluminum & keep flex lines to the minimum necessary. JMO

Walt

[Classic Nova & Performance]

Like jpgolf14 said, trying to do double flares with SS lines is tough. If you are using AN fittings its not bad too bad as long as you have good tools. I have used both steel & stainless with success as long as you pay attention to the details ie: straight ends, good flares, etc. I would avoid aluminum & keep flex lines to the minimum necessary. JMO

Walt

[snappytravis]

I just finished bending a hard line for my differential. I used 0.028" wall seamless stainless. I didn't find it hard at all to work with. This is with decent tools. I found it bent and flared pretty easily. This was with single flares. I had no fun trying to double flare it without cracking.

Adel clamps are a good choice. I like rivnuts to attach stuff like the adel clamps to hollow frame rails. Much nicer than sheet metal screws.

Regarding the color. Another option is to use a cover. The cover is nice b/c it comes in many colors and provides abrasion resistance as well. This is my brake line with Techflex flame resistant cover.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/7941741826_86b315e99d_h-1.jpg
Nice, looks like the techflex has heat shrink fittings at the end to keep it in place? Do you mind me asking where you purchased your fittings? I need to buy a t for the front as well, think I will order up a nice flare tool, then I guess you can just do a single flare on stainless from what I understand is that correct? Thanks that line looks good.

[jpgolf14]

Nice, looks like the techflex has heat shrink fittings at the end to keep it in place? Do you mind me asking where you purchased your fittings? I need to buy a t for the front as well, think I will order up a nice flare tool, then I guess you can just do a single flare on stainless from what I understand is that correct? Thanks that line looks good.

Yes it is Techflex brand with heat shrink.

There are several things to keep in mind for the flares. I used 37 (AN) singles flares. This is with SEAMLESS tube. Seamless tube is extruded in the round shape. Most normal tube is welded. In other words it is a flat sheet that is rolled into a circle then welded closed. Then its ground smooth on the outside. If you single flare welded tube, the non-ground inner surface is going to be the sealing surface. This is not recommended as the inner surface because it is not prepared as a sealing surface. This is a primary reason why double flares are used, so the ground outer surface is the sealing surface. So I would not recommend a single flare of any type unless it is on seamless tube. I get my seamless from McMaster Carr but there are plenty of places that supply it.

Other than the 37 degree, there is also the more standard 45 degree (SAE) flare. Typically in a brake application, this is a double flare with welded tube. I would imagine with the strength of stainless, a single 45 flare on seamless tube would be just fine, but do your own research on that one.

Based on the following factors

ease of flare 37 degree single vs 45 degree double
seamless tube availability / price
adapter and fitting availability / price

I ended up using the 37 degree stuff with seamless tube and a single flare. The only downside to this that I see is 37 degree flares are not specifically DOT approved. In reality it is a superior joint to the 45 degree in my opinion. However you may have problems with that in court if you had an accident caused by brake failure.

The parts I used for my rear axle.

6ft 3/16" OD seamless 304 stainless 0.028" wall tube - McMaster Carr 89895K43
37 degree flaring tool - Rigid 377
3/16" tube bender - Rigid 403
4x -3 AN tube nuts - Aeroquip FCM 3591
-3 AN flare tube sleeves - Aeroquip FCM 3667 (pack of 6)
2x bulkhead -3 male to -3 male adapter - Earls 963203
3x 3/16" Adel clamp - Ace Hardware
1x bulkhead tee -3 - XRP 483403

[parsonsj]

I ended up using the 37 degree stuff with seamless tube and a single flare. The only downside to this that I see is 37 degree flares are not specifically DOT approved. In reality it is a superior joint to the 45 degree in my opinion.I've had good luck with AN (JIC) flares too. One other thing to remember is the 37 flares use a nut and sleeve, whereas 45 degree flares use only a nut. Oh, and the SAE J514 standard is the automotive 37 degree standard. It's not quite true to say 37 degree flares are not DOT approved. It's just that no manufacturer has gone to the expense of getting their 37 flare stuff specifically approved for brake lines. My take: if it's good enough for aircraft hydraulics, it's good enough for automotive hydraulics.

[Motorcitydak]

I am going to use some of these things to route all of my lines, cables and electrical. They had a display at a car show last winter, the product is excellent and has surprising strength

http://www.magdaddyusa.com/

For straightening the tube, I have seen you can unroll it best you can by hand then use a 2x4 on a cement floor and roll it out like dough into a straight line

[jpgolf14]

I've had good luck with AN (JIC) flares too. One other thing to remember is the 37 flares use a nut and sleeve, whereas 45 degree flares use only a nut. Oh, and the SAE J514 standard is the automotive 37 degree standard. It's not quite true to say 37 degree flares are not DOT approved. It's just that no manufacturer has gone to the expense of getting their 37 flare stuff specifically approved for brake lines. My take: if it's good enough for aircraft hydraulics, it's good enough for automotive hydraulics.

I was not aware of the SAE spec. Thanks for the info. But I believe the existence of an SAE spec does not mean there is also a DOT spec?

And agreed completely on the aircraft hydraulics. That is where my opinions comes from as well. Aero hydraulics consistently run up over 4000psi.

[jpgolf14]

I am going to use some of these things to route all of my lines, cables and electrical. They had a display at a car show last winter, the product is excellent and has surprising strength

http://www.magdaddyusa.com/


You are going to use those to hold your fuel and brake lines??? Yikes, that would not be me. There is no way I would run a line fastening system that would fail before the actual tube would fail. Do you know how the 22lb spec is measured? Is that pull off? twist off? cantilevered?

Also, what prevents the lines from rattling around in the mount? Seems like they do not fit tight to tube.

[snappytravis]

Thanks for all the good info, I am definaltly heading towards stainless, with 37 degree, I talked to a friend that was complaining of leaks, I think he was trying to double flare, possibly with the stainless that has the seam, makes sense why he had leaks. I really appreciate all the help. I am in Riverton Wy, and without the guys on this site it would just be a lot more of trial and error for me. I plan to go to vegas for sema and hope to meet a few of you there and a beer or two. think I am going to order up tubing bender and flare tool. Thanks again,

[cheapthrillz]

I used this flaring tool (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KTI-70081/) and it was a piece of cake... I had never flared a brake line before I did my brakes and didn't have a single leak what-so-ever.... I was also told that the K-tool flaring tool would do double flares on stainless very easily too, but I have no firsthand experience with stainless.

[renegade6]

Ditto on that flaring tool. I used it when I did my lines and didn't have one leak.

Instead of using a roll of SS line, I bought straight lengths, I think the max length that can be shipped is 7'.

[jpgolf14]

Ditto on that flaring tool. I used it when I did my lines and didn't have one leak.

Instead of using a roll of SS line, I bought straight lengths, I think the max length that can be shipped is 7'.

I like straight lengths as well. I have purchased 6ft lengths from McMaster Carr. But I think I will be getting some 8' lengths from online metals.

[snappytravis]

So do you think if I bought a 8ft piece of 3/16 I would be able to run it from the mc down the frame rail to center of rear body, then run flex hose down to axle to a t fitting then hard line out to left and right calipers, I also thought about 2 6ft pieces of stainless then mount the proportioning valve under the driver seat on frame rail, then it would also be out of sight, whats your thought on this Idea. thanks

[jpgolf14]

So do you think if I bought a 8ft piece of 3/16 I would be able to run it from the mc down the frame rail to center of rear body, then run flex hose down to axle to a t fitting then hard line out to left and right calipers, I also thought about 2 6ft pieces of stainless then mount the proportioning valve under the driver seat on frame rail, then it would also be out of sight, whats your thought on this Idea. thanks

I'm not sure 8ft is quite going to make it. On my '87 which is a longer car, its about 6ft worth of line to get from my trans cross member to the end of the line where it turn to the axle soft line. I think on my car 8ft wouldn't be enough. It will probably be closer on your car. You may want to crawl under the car and measure the length.