View Full Version : Guys with Shockwaves can some chime in on settings for good ride quality and handling
I have Single Rebound adjustable Shockwaves and i do like them but i think things can be better.
I am considering upgrading to the 3 way coilovers once funds permit but for now i wanted to ask some of you who run these how have you guys went about tuning them>
I spoke to Ridetech a few times they said the air pressure has alot to do with ride however if i lower the air it kinda slams my car and i do not like the look and my front tires rub.
Currently i am running around 88psi up front and about 97-105 in the rear, the PSI varies as i drive which they say is normal
if i drop my PSI any lower than this i cant drive the car much with rubbing and clearance. Suggestions?
One thing I also do not get is why Ridetech suggest you turn the knobs to full hard for tuning then to soft as you go, i would think starting soft and working your way up makes more sense to me.
marolf101x
08-10-2012, 11:50 AM
The rebound adjuster is a needle and seat that, when opened, allows oil to bypass the shim stack. By starting at full stiff you know the valve on both shocks is all the way closed.
If you were to start all the way soft one shock might have 23 clicks and o e shock have 22 clicks (due to tolerance stack up).
marolf101x
08-10-2012, 11:54 AM
An air spring is just that. . .a spring.
Though you can radically change the spring height with pressure you really have a small window in which it will actually work (about an inch at the wheel)
Set the car at the suggested installed air spring height and tune from there with the shock. You can change air pressure, but don't change much at this point as you need to learn to adjust the shock first.
marolf101x
08-10-2012, 11:55 AM
The pressure will change as you drive as the air spring is being compressed and unloaded. So the pressure will go higher when compressed and lower when unloaded. Pretty simple.
Britt if the shock bodies were longer would this enable more ride height adjustments? is swapping the units out with longer ones possible? i just do not like to drive real low where i live the roads suck and il tear up my car.
marolf101x
08-10-2012, 02:22 PM
It will move ride height up, but the suspension will be at less than optimal placement. Any major deviation from designed ride height will adversely affect handling (in any suspension)
It will move ride height up, but the suspension will be at less than optimal placement. Any major deviation from designed ride height will adversely affect handling (in any suspension)
Britt will the triple adj coilovers enable me to have more ride height flexibility?
marolf101x
08-11-2012, 08:01 AM
No. They are exactly the same. Only you have to get under the car to adjust the suspension height.
Well after a nice long drive and a friend who is a pro driver spent some time fine tuning the car he said lets do coilovers and i am pulling the trigger this week. What i don't like is my car teeter totters left and right over bumps mostly up front and when driving 75+ MPH hauling ass and it does that its scary. We tried everything we just need more adjustments in the shocks themselves to really dial in a good balance for our north east roads. the car is great to cruise but its not built to cruise it is just way too aggressive for that. I look forward to using the Ridetech 3 ways soon and I will def report back with comments once we do some driving. My goal is to take my car to Limerock Park for the Vintage Race festival in a few weeks and that should be a really good shake down drive for feedback.
JRouche
08-11-2012, 10:26 PM
Its kinda sad to see peeps are still thinking air springs are like hydraulic suspensions. Like they are adjustable for ride height. They are NOT!! They are just like any spring (steel coil, leaf or torsion). The ride height of a car is set with the control arms. And when I say control arms it means exactly that. They ARE the controlling the suspension re: optimum geometry. The control arms (front and back (ok, for the back call them trailing arms, no diff)) have a set position for ride height. An optimal setting.
You cant stray from the designed control arm geometry too much before ride quality suffers. And thats where it needs to be, on point.
As far as the shock valving goes? I like to set it up overly soft and move up. This is with the air springs. I have double adjustable shocks up front and single on the rear. I set my car up with a soft compression and a stiff rebound. It works for my car and my street driving conditions. Its compliment enough so the tire rides the road but hangs long enough (stiff rebound) to keep it from bottoming out.
But NO way do I use the shocks or air springs as a body roll fix. I have a stout roll bar up front and at the back.
Dont ever use shocks or springs to limit body roll. Shocks are to control the unsprung part of yer suspension. And springs are only there to support the car, nothing else. You cant fix an apparent handling issue with springs. Thats NOT their role in the package. JR
JRouche i totally understand how these kits work but my shocks only have rebound adjustments so I am limited and also the roads in NY and CT where I live can be terrible. My car has no body roll whatsoever that isnt my complaint it just feels very unsettling up front with the compression no matter how much we dialed it in. If my shockwaves had a low speed and high speed compression adjustment i am sure i can dial out my issue but im stuck with the singles for a little bit longer. If i lower the pressure below the recommended range the tires are buried in the body and it rubs on turns so that makes it impossible to drive. I have to say I owned one very high end car with Airsprings it was an AMG E63 and i always hated that cars suspension it just must be my taste and where I drive. I have always had great results with conventional springs and shocks or coilovers. this is my first Air Ride system but it really does remind me of my old AMG as it hits our North East bumps.
Well after a nice long drive and a friend who is a pro driver spent some time fine tuning the car he said lets do coilovers and i am pulling the trigger this week. What i don't like is my car teeter totters left and right over bumps mostly up front and when driving 75+ MPH hauling ass and it does that its scary. We tried everything we just need more adjustments in the shocks themselves to really dial in a good balance for our north east roads. the car is great to cruise but its not built to cruise it is just way too aggressive for that. I look forward to using the Ridetech 3 ways soon and I will def report back with comments once we do some driving. My goal is to take my car to Limerock Park for the Vintage Race festival in a few weeks and that should be a really good shake down drive for feedback.
Coilovers will not solve your problem. If it even helps it would be a coincidence.
Let's identify the real problem before you spend money on changing parts.
What kind of car? Tell us about the suspension system in detail. What size wheels and tires? What are the current alignment settings? What steering system? How is the air control system configured? Any swaybars on the car?
The core problem is not the Shockwaves, BUT the ShockWave COULD allow you to bandaid a tire clearance problem by raising the car significantly over its intended ride height. Depending on your car [or suspension] changing the ride height could change you alignment settings enough to create the situation you are describing.
We can certainly identify [and very likely fix] your real problem before you spend another $2800 on TA coilovers. I will gladly sell you product, but you won't like me very much when your problem still exists :) AND...we can do it on this forum. I'm sure there are others that are experiencing similar problems that could take something from our conversation.
Let's fix your car!
BTW...I like your screen name...I've got an 09 with a bunch of Lingenfelter stuff on it...makes 555RWHP. Its a real weapon!
Bret thanks for the reply, is there any way my installers can speak with you or someone specific regarding my issue? My car is a mach 1 mustang with the full E3 system and all your suspension arms. I rather have them call you with all the technical details. I have forgeline wheels 19X11 rear 18x8.5 front with Pilot Super Sport tires. The driving ride height i have been using has the rear tire barely tucked in, i just measured from the floor to the center and edge of the fender the rear is 27 inches tall and my front is around 26 an3/8. I have a decent aggressive offset wheel so I can not go much lower without clearance issues. My steering is Total control Power with reduced flow valve in a KRC Pro Pump. I have all amazing parts in the car.
My 2012 V has the Lingefelter stuff on as well with some D3 suspension, i love the car, it blows away the BMW and AMG i have owned. I swear this is the best American Car made today, until the new Viper maybe ha ha
I'll be happy to go over your set up with your guy. My direct email is
[email protected]. Have him email me for a direct phone number.
A couple items to look for with the TPC rack...
MAKE SURE you have measured the bumpsteer curve on this setup. There are a few different ways to install that rack...most of them wrong. Wrong being defined as creating a significant amount of bumpsteer [which is the "uneasy" feeling you are describing in your posts above]. The other item is that TCP uses a Woodward servo on their rack. This is NOT a bad thing at all, BUT the Woorward servo is a racing component and is meant to be very adjsutable for steering feel. Most dirt track guys like a very soft steering feel because they use a LOT of steering input. There are two setscrews on the side of the input shaft housing that determine both steering bias [whether it steers easier to one side or another] and overall stering feel. They are hard to see and harder to get to. You will cuss. When I got my TCP rack it was WAY too soft...like a 76 Mercury Marquis. I went through the typical process of slowing down the steering pump to drop pressure...trying different alignment settings...asking questions. I finally called Woodward and they educated me about the adjustability of this servo. They have a wonderfully technical website on this particular subject and steering in general: http://woodwardsteering.eu/images/power%20steering%20system%20tech.pdf
There is a huge amount of information on Woodwards site that will take some amount of time to digest and act on. Be patient and thorough and you will be rewarded. I have your exact suspension setup under my own 69 Mustang with TA series ShockWaves. It is smooth, comfortable and, by some opinions, fast. Yours will be as well.
Have your guy email me his phone number...we'll talk.
Awesome thanks Bret, yeah i liked the fact my steering can be adjusted which is why i upgraded to it. Right now my assist level feels awesome and i have zero bumpsteer which is also awesome. I just came back from a car cruise for an hour and the car drives good but as soon as i get closer to home and roads are really bad it gets very unsettling. Il have the guys contact you direct on Tuesday to discuss my car. Bret did you change your torsion bar in the servo or lower the flow on the pump?
66larkgs
09-09-2012, 06:11 PM
Any updates?
Any updates?
gave up with the shockwaves and then upgraded to the triple adj coilovers and i love them, totally transformed the car and with my crap roads i can at least dial settings in to make my car ride comfortable now. I think my application is different than lets say someone in FL or California because of my roads. I then again think a 3 way shockwave would be another awesome solution but i just wanted to make my life easier with standard coilovers.
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