Full Sub VS Bolt On's Pro's and Con's.

[Boostable]

I have searched and read on the subject for awhile now and think I know which way I am going, but wanted to get some feedback on the pro's and con's to see if there is anything that I am not thinking of. I know there are some limitations on the wheel size with bolt on's versus a full sub, but I don't think that will be a huge issue in my application. What about other things like weight, stiffness, angles, etc that I can't accomplish with the factory sub that I could accomplish with an aftermarket.

I know this will be asked, so here are some details on what im looking to do with the car.
1969 Camaro Convertible, LXx TT setup with T56. I want the car lowered 3~4 and was considering air, but will probably just do coil overs. Rear will be more then likely be a full BMR Torque Arm setup, but I have a few questions to get answered before I get that fully determined. Im looking to make about ~700hp and the car will be a weekend driver/warrior with occasional track days at both strip and road courses, power tour, etc. This is not my first 1st gen, but certainly my first PT Style. I wouldn't say money isn't an object, but I am not afraid to spend money to do it right the first time, so that is not my determining factory here. Im a "decent" fabricator, but not my profession by any means...

Im just finishing up two bike builds, so im looking forward to getting the 69 started..

I know you guys will have the answers, and any input would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

[srh3trinity]

I can tell you how I am going to justify going with an aftermarket subframe, it was pretty easy for me after I scored a few parts for a good deal. Also, I was starting from scratch and didn't have any parts in place before I started to plan the build.

I am going to buy Scott Mock's subframe which uses C5/C6 control arms and uprights. I already had C6 Z51 brakes and I am doing an LS swap.With the sub, you get steering arms and a sway bar. It has provisions for LSX motor mounts and uses a Fox Mustang rack and pinion (quick ratio available everywhere for pretty cheap). I bought C5 control arms and spindles off of a board member for less than 500 bucks (patiently watch ebay). I should pick up some clearance for engine accesories and I have room for an AC compressor which is an issue with the stock subframe. The aftermarket sub will weigh less and I am opting for powder coating for a nice durable fresh start. Scott's second gen ran a 295 tire on the front, so I should have room to grow in the tire department.

If I were going to build up a stock subframe, I would have had to buy control arms (1000 or more), use stock spindles, aftermarket sway bar (200-300), motor mounts (100), brake caliper mounts (150), upgrade the steering box (200-400), chassis bracing, (?$), powder coat (350 locally) or paint and so on and so forth.

With either option, I was going to have to buy coilovers so that didn't factor in.

I did the math and I may wind up spending 750-1000 more going with the Mock's subframe, but that would be compared to middle of the road components to build up a stock subframe. If you were going to go with DSE stuff or Hotchkis stuff, aftermarket spindles and other options, then the aftermarket subframe may actually be cheaper.

The downside in my book is freight (one time deal vs. paying for all of the other parts to be delivered) and writing a big fat check as opposed to building a stock subframe piece by piece and spreading the expenditure out over time. All of my rationalization applies to the Mock subframe. His is by far the cheapest option and a bargain in my book. Jakes, DSE, SpeedTech, Art Morrison, etc. numbers would be different.

[Boostable]

Stephen,

Thank you for the response, I appreciate it. That is kinda of my consensus on the whole process. After I tally up the components I want to add to the stock subframe I am nearing the price range of a full replacement. I can of course choose cheaper (or other brand) components and perhaps that is what I may end up doing. However I don't want to give up something that I can't see the benefit of from where I am now such as weight, rigidness, max wheel width, etc.

I tried to look up Scott Mock's subframe info, but I only found a few that are for sale, do you have a link of pics or specs?

Thanks again,

[srh3trinity]

Look up Albert Melchior's Firebird build. You can search for Cochise, that was the name of the build. Scott had a build of his personal second gen Camaro too. I will have to find a link. Mock goes by cookwelder62.