hotchkis springs dont fit in spc lowers?? 69 camaro

[dcrider69]

I have the spc lowers and the 2" hotchkis springs for big block(1906f). I am replacing factory control arms and moroso drag springs. The coil/wire diameter of the hotchkis is MUCH larger than the moroso, and the moroso is pretty much stock diameter. The hotchkis spring will not fit into the cup of the spc lower. I could probably grind 1/4" or more all the way around of at least the first two windings and it fit, but I dont think I should need or have to do that. The moroso spring fits with ease. Just for kicks, I put the hotchkis in the factory lower. I honestly believe that its too large for it also, as it rubs all the way around. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

[dcrider69]

sorry for the huge pictures!

[Hugger67RSSS]

You will probably need coil spring spacers, the lowers already have a built in drop too. With the spacer it will solve the clearance issue and get you to the ride height you want too. It will be super low without them

[Chevelle598bb]

Looks like you have 70-81 camaro springs instead of 67-69. The 70-81 were 5.5 diameter and the 67-69 were 5 inches in diameter. What part number do you have.

[dcrider69]

Looks like you have 70-81 camaro springs instead of 67-69. The 70-81 were 5.5 diameter and the 67-69 were 5 inches in diameter. What part number do you have.

1906F as shown in the last picture.

[dcrider69]

You will probably need coil spring spacers, the lowers already have a built in drop too. With the spacer it will solve the clearance issue and get you to the ride height you want too. It will be super low without them


That would merely be rigging your way out of the issue. If you did use a spacer thick enough to get it out of the cup, then what is going to keep the spring from popping/sliding out of the groove of the spacer? The spacers are meant for ride height adjustability, not for making a spring fit.

[Chevelle598bb]

1906F as shown in the last picture.

Sorry I should have looked at all the pictures. I use the iPhone app so pics are big. That is the correct part number for 67-69 camaro but I have a feeling that the springs you have are for 70-81 and were miss boxed. Spc arms have been around for a long time and when marcus designed them he was using hotchkis springs so it is a proven combination. What is the outer diameter of the old moroso spring versus the new hotchkis.

[dcrider69]

Sorry I should have looked at all the pictures. I use the iPhone app so pics are big. That is the correct part number for 67-69 camaro but I have a feeling that the springs you have are for 70-81 and were miss boxed. Spc arms have been around for a long time and when marcus designed them he was using hotchkis springs so it is a proven combination. What is the outer diameter of the old moroso spring versus the new hotchkis.

I will have to check this evening. That is definitely a possibility.

[regal454]

Check out this thread. Hotchkis springs are wider than 5" O.D.
https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?51173-SC-amp-C-SPC-Lower-control-arm-problem&highlight=spc+lower+arms+springs+fit

[dcrider69]

I just had someone go to the garage and check. The moroso is 5" and the hotchkis is 5.5". The hotchkis has "19830013" written on it. I will contact Hotchkis and see what that number means.

[Hugger67RSSS]

I see what you are saying but SPC makes a spacer specifically for your issue. Call mark at SC&C.

[dcrider69]

I see what you are saying but SPC makes a spacer specifically for your issue. Call mark at SC&C.

I have the spacer kit but do NOT want to use it for the purpose of making the spring fit. I only want to use it if the ride height is too low.

[dhutton]

I have the spacer kit but do NOT want to use it for the purpose of making the spring fit. I only want to use it if the ride height is too low.

Your ride height will be too low, no question. You will need spacers.

Only way it will not be the case is if SPC changed the pocket depth.

Do your springs fit properly in the frame pocket?

[Hotchkis]

dcrider69,
When a spring is manufactured it requires a specific inner diameter to fit the frame correctly. As you increase the wire diameter to increase the rate of the spring, the extra diameter goes to the outer diameter (OD). Our OD is 5.086". If there were to be a discrepancy in the diameter which is unlikely, we would gladly work with you to exchange the spring. Please confirm that the spring you have is labeled as part #19830013 on the spring. Some brands of A-arms have conflict due to their choice of pocket diameter. Our A-Arms do not have conflict nor do stock arms as well as other brands of A-Arms, but there are also some out there that do not fit the larger OD springs, one of which is the brand you have chosen. Our springs have been made in this diameter for over 12 years. As others have suggested also be aware that the A-Arm brand you have has a lowered spring pocket therefore whatever drop spring you choose, you will also be adding the drop factor of the a-arm as well. The A-Arms we produce have a ride height adjustment feature which allows them to sit at factory height, 1/2" lower than factory, or up to 3/4" higher than factory. This gives owners many choices for setting up cars with different motor configurations. Please feel free to contact Hotchkis customer service and we'd be glad to work with you if you have any questions. 888-735-6425

[dcrider69]

dcrider69,
When a spring is manufactured it requires a specific inner diameter to fit the frame correctly. As you increase the wire diameter to increase the rate of the spring, the extra diameter goes to the outer diameter (OD). Our OD is 5.086". If there were to be a discrepancy in the diameter which is unlikely, we would gladly work with you to exchange the spring. Please confirm that the spring you have is labeled as part #19830013 on the spring. Some brands of A-arms have conflict due to their choice of pocket diameter. Our A-Arms do not have conflict nor do stock arms as well as other brands of A-Arms, but there are also some out there that do not fit the larger OD springs, one of which is the brand you have chosen. Our springs have been made in this diameter for over 12 years. As others have suggested also be aware that the A-Arm brand you have has a lowered spring pocket therefore whatever drop spring you choose, you will also be adding the drop factor of the a-arm as well. The A-Arms we produce have a ride height adjustment feature which allows them to sit at factory height, 1/2" lower than factory, or up to 3/4" higher than factory. This gives owners many choices for setting up cars with different motor configurations. Please feel free to contact Hotchkis customer service and we'd be glad to work with you if you have any questions. 888-735-6425

I was finally able to get someone on the phone after 45 minutes of holding. They verified that the part number stamped on the spring is correct to mine. They stated that the o.d. of the spring should be 5.10". The person I had measure the springs, said it was 5.5". I just went and measured them myself and sent the picture to mheintz. They are actually 5.25", I will assume you will say thats extra powdercoat.

Here's the deal, someone has already said that these spc arms were originally fabricated by standards of a hotchkis spring. This spring I have does not remotely fit my spc control arm. As I have already said, it even rubs all over my factory control arm. I guess you will say my factory control arm is "different". I am not an engineer, but are you saying the only way to increase the rate of the spring is by diameter. So the way the metal stock is wound, treated, hot or cold, or length is not another way?

Honestly, I don't care about grinding on the spring but I care about having to pay for more powdercoat. Sure, I can spray bomb it, but I paid for a powder coated spring. This is not the first time that I have seen you, Hotchkis, blame issues on something or someone else, including on this forum.

[dcrider69]

Your ride height will be too low, no question. You will need spacers.

Only way it will not be the case is if SPC changed the pocket depth.

Do your springs fit properly in ther frame pocket?

Yes, they fit fine in the subframe. But they dont fit at all in the pocket of the spc arm, and they rub all the way around in my factory arm. The moroso spring I have measures right at 4.75", so these Hotchkis springs I have are .5" larger.

[Smoker03]

Did you tell the customer service rep that the springs actually measured 5.25"? Have you measured the spring pocket in the SPC arms to verify they are the correct diameter? If you would have told Hotchkis that the springs are 5.25" I would see them having no issues swapping out a set of springs for you. They are a very reputalbe manufacturer and even came in this thread and said they would work with you to fix the issue.


I was finally able to get someone on the phone after 45 minutes of holding. They verified that the part number stamped on the spring is correct to mine. They stated that the o.d. of the spring should be 5.10". The person I had measure the springs, said it was 5.5". I just went and measured them myself and sent the picture to mheintz. They are actually 5.25", I will assume you will say thats extra powdercoat.

Here's the deal, someone has already said that these spc arms were originally fabricated by standards of a hotchkis spring. This spring I have does not remotely fit my spc control arm. As I have already said, it even rubs all over my factory control arm. I guess you will say my factory control arm is "different". I am not an engineer, but are you saying the only way to increase the rate of the spring is by diameter. So the way the metal stock is wound, treated, hot or cold, or length is not another way?

Honestly, I don't care about grinding on the spring but I care about having to pay for more powdercoat. Sure, I can spray bomb it, but I paid for a powder coated spring. This is not the first time that I have seen you, Hotchkis, blame issues on something or someone else, including on this forum.

[dcrider69]

Did you tell the customer service rep that the springs actually measured 5.25"? Have you measured the spring pocket in the SPC arms to verify they are the correct diameter? If you would have told Hotchkis that the springs are 5.25" I would see them having no issues swapping out a set of springs for you. They are a very reputalbe manufacturer and even came in this thread and said they would work with you to fix the issue.

3-4 hours ago, our last correspondence was for me to take a picture of the spring with a measurement. I got the picture and replied to them via email about 2 hours ago. He replied and said their answer was here, which is seen above. When I replied here, I got another email showing the way they want me to measure and take the picture. So I will do that later. I agree, they are a large company and would expect them to be reputable. But I see them looking for an escape with the above post. Just the same as I seen them blame a traction bar for a broken leaf spring here.

*** the spring pocket measures a hair over 5 inches.

[Marcus SC&C]

You`ve already measured the spring and know it`s oversized so you`ve identified the problem. It`s not uncommon, apparently it`s very hard to wind springs to an exact OD every time and we see variations in ALL brands for springs. This is a known issue posted on many forums over the years. It`s not Hotchkis fault per se, they don`t make the springs they just call out the specs. We install both SPC and Hotchkis parts (and many other brands) regularly in our shop and they usually work fine together although those particular springs do tend to run a bit large OD IMO. SPC, Global West, DSE, Eibach, Eaton and factory springs all drop right in SPC LCAs 99.9% of the time. Someone mentioned the ride height kit. Here`s a link to ride height kit instructions FYI http://scandc.com/new/node/731 . While it`s true that you shouldn`t have to use it to make the springs fit, you will most likely use it to set your ride height. (unless you really want 4" of total drop). It`s not a bandaid, it`s an integral part of the system so feel free to use it. You have a full 2 1/2" of adjustment with that kit (-2" to +1/2") and an additional +1 1/4" is available, with additional components for a grand total of 3 3/4" of usable ride height adjustment. That said once you install a few spacers,especially the helical one it will lift some of the bottom dead coil out of the pocket (which will remain centered by the grooves in the spacer) and the springs will usually drop right in place. So semantics aside it usually takes care of the fitment issues and you`re probably going to do anyway so this potentially annoying problem often ends up being a non issue. If that doesn`t take care of it, swap those springs out for ones the proper dia. and you`ll be good to go. If you have any questions please feel free to give me a call. Mark SC&C

[dcrider69]

You`ve already measured the spring and know it`s oversized so you`ve identified the problem. It`s not uncommon, apparently it`s very hard to wind springs to an exact OD every time and we see variations in ALL brands for springs. This is a known issue posted on many forums over the years. It`s not Hotchkis fault per se, they don`t make the springs they just call out the specs. We install both SPC and Hotchkis parts (and many other brands) regularly in our shop and they usually work fine together although those particular springs do tend to run a bit large OD IMO. SPC, Global West, DSE, Eibach, Eaton and factory springs all drop right in SPC LCAs 99.9% of the time. Someone mentioned the ride height kit. Here`s a link to ride height kit instructions FYI http://scandc.com/new/node/731 . While it`s true that you shouldn`t have to use it to make the springs fit, you will most likely use it to set your ride height. (unless you really want 4" of total drop). It`s not a bandaid, it`s an integral part of the system so feel free to use it. You have a full 2 1/2" of adjustment with that kit (-2" to +1/2") and an additional +1 1/4" is available, with additional components for a grand total of 3 3/4" of usable ride height adjustment. That said once you install a few spacers,especially the helical one it will lift some of the bottom dead coil out of the pocket (which will remain centered by the grooves in the spacer) and the springs will usually drop right in place. So semantics aside it usually takes care of the fitment issues and you`re probably going to do anyway so this potentially annoying problem often ends up being a non issue. If that doesn`t take care of it, swap those springs out for ones the proper dia. and you`ll be good to go. If you have any questions please feel free to give me a call. Mark SC&C

My biggest issue is that they want to play blame game, which is even evident above. I mean we are not talking about a $1,000 part, we are talking about $160 worth of springs. They want to blame it on the control arm. When I sent them the picture with the measurement showing it was 5.25", I was told that I didn't take the picture the way THEY wanted me to. I went ahead and put the spacers in with the springs, and it seats on one side but it is sitting on top of the spring cup on the opposite side.

I also find it peculiar that a factory spring measures at 4.75". This particular Hotchkis spring that I have rubbed all over the outer diamter of the cup of my factory arm, yet they claim it works with their arms and or factory. It's just a lesson learned I suppose, I thought I would get better customer service from such a large company.

[Marcus SC&C]

I totally get what you`re saying. Personally I`m not into the blame thing, to me, it`s about solving the problems, moving forward and getting out there with the car to enjoy it. We run into tolerance stacking and incompatibility issues with parts all the time at the shop so it doesn`t surprise us anymore. This particular set of springs sound like they`re on the very outside of what`s workable so you may want to swap them out, either for the same springs closer to spec. OD or another brand of similar rate. FWIW we have numerous clients running those springs with SPC arms (some on my recomendation) so they work fine most of the time but coil springs are fickle... Mark SC&C

[dcrider69]

I totally get what you`re saying. Personally I`m not into the blame thing, to me, it`s about solving the problems, moving forward and getting out there with the car to enjoy it. We run into tolerance stacking and incompatibility issues with parts all the time at the shop so it doesn`t surprise us anymore. This particular set of springs sound like they`re on the very outside of what`s workable so you may want to swap them out, either for the same springs closer to spec. OD or another brand of similar rate. FWIW we have numerous clients running those springs with SPC arms (some on my recomendation) so they work fine most of the time but coil springs are fickle... Mark SC&C

You are good people Marcus!

[Smoker03]

Coil springs really aren't fickle. The supplier building them needs to build what they are contracted too. I have never had any issues with Hotchkis parts, but a bad batch happens from time to time. Hotchkis should step up and swap out the springs here and everyone can move on and have fun building and driving cars.