67 Butternut Build

[sjaroslo]

It started for me some time in the 60's, as a teenager growing up in Northern California. My oldest brother had bought the first of many Corvettes when I was 8 years old, and the bug bit. Fast forward to the 70's and I was reading every Hot Rod or Car Craft magazine that I could get my hands on, when a cover photo one month showed a custom yellow Rally Sport with blacked out trim and American mags and I was in love--the die was cast and I became a Camaro Guy. At the end of the decade, getting ready to head off to college, and a casual conversation with an acquaintance one Friday night at the Jack-in-the-Box reveals that he has a 67 RS/SS without an engine or trans and is looking for some working transportation, and I have a tuna boat of a 69 Galaxie 500 with a 302 that runs OK.... Before you know it, my best friend is towing me 3/4 of the way across Santa Rosa on the end of a stout chain using his Dad's El Camino--a tow which included dragging the car up one of the steepest roads in the area. Stupid things that kids do.... Soon, a machined-but-unassembled 396 finds its way into the family garage, followed by a want ad Turbo 400, and a car is born. "Rat On 1" served me well through my college years, despite my having a complete and utter lack of knowledge about Camaros and despite all of my book-learning. I'll spare you the details of all of the injustices that I perpetrated on that poor car, but will just sum it up by saying that when I started working at my first real job after school, I later discovered that the HR Manager at the firm had thought that someone had left an abandoned vehicle in the parking lot and had begun the preparations to have it towed away (we still occasionally reminisce about that colorful incident as the then-HR-Manager has been my beautiful bride for 20 years now). This is the only photo I have of her, showing how she looked when I dragged her home (there are plenty of future stories about the 66 Corvette also shown--Corvette #2 for my brother, and she also called my house her home for a number of years earlier in this decade):
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As is often the case with life, once I got that good job in Silicon Valley and started to have a little bank rolling in, a brand new 83 Volkswagen GTI found its way into the garage, and Rat On 1 sat neglected for a short while, until I realized that it was unlikely that I was going to be able to derive any pleasure from driving a multi-hued, oil-leaking and -burning, rainwater-sieve of a car when I had a nice shiny new car with air conditioning and windows that sealed up, etc., and Rat On 1 was sold off, never to be seen or heard from again. End of Chapter 1--let me post this and see how it looks and I'll let the rest of the story flow.

[sjaroslo]

I do want to be clear, this is not a "long lost love re-found" story, although I did stumble across Rat On 1's VIN number many years ago, and did attempt to locate her through the California DMV, but no subsequent records were found. This IS a story of the bug that bit, and never let go, and about how one can find love again. I never lost my interest in Chevys, Camaros or Corvettes, but I was lucky enough to be able to own a string of nice, new cars throughout my life, and never got the fever quite as badly as I had it as a youth--until the 66 Corvette was on the market. This was my brother's 2nd Corvette, owned since 1972, and I have a long history with it. I rebuilt the 327 in High School auto shop after he sucked a valve during a shakedown run of a new 650 double-pumper. I drove the car in High School while my brother served in the Navy in Viet Nam. I helped friends paint it in their makeshift garage/paintbooth. I came home from college one Christmas with a pair of "camelhump heads" that my brother commissioned me to purchase and install after he won one of his first court cases in his burgeoning legal career. I lived through the various abuses imposed on the poor Corvette as the result of it living the life of a daily driver in San Francisco--the T-Bone, the Head-on, the slashed tires, the burglary attempt. Then in the early-2000s, it came to light that my brother was finally tiring of owning the car, as he also had become able to afford nicer, newer vehicles, and the 66 was being neglected and had no shelter to call home. A deal was struck (VERY generous on the part of my brother), and another mid-sixties bowtie was finally occupying my garage! Since this is a Camaro story, I won't dwell too long here, other than to say that under my tutelage, the tired 327 was replaced with a crate 350 with a hot cam kit, the trans was rebuilt, and the entire front and rear suspension and drivetrain was sent out to be rebuilt, powder coated and made like new again. Those were great projects for me, and I enjoyed them a great deal, but for as big of a part that Corvettes have played for me throughout my life, I couldn't shake the nagging reminder that I was a Camaro Guy.

The work on the Corvette simply ignited the long-smoldering desire I had to have another Camaro. My saintly wife allowed as how it would be OK to start a Camaro project, but there was no way that we could house TWO Sixties vehicles, and so the happy next chapter in the life of the 66 is that she is now back with my brother, who has rediscovered his own enjoyment in working on the car, and has proceeded to make numerous improvements and additions to her, including a Vintage Air system that we did together in my garage. Having the powerful 350 under the hood, and no longer being shackled by the concern of originality, has also allowed him to better enjoy the car and drive it like he stole it more often. But remember, this is my Camaro story, so let's get back on track.

How she looked at the end of her stay with me:
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End of Chapter 2

[sjaroslo]

Fast forward to 2010, and the hunt is on for a nice 67 to rebuild. I knew that I wanted to go Pro Touring, so I didn't really want to start with anything TOO nice or too original or too important, but I knew that it needed to be an RS, that an RS/SS350 would be a bonus, and that a convertible was definitely in the running, although not likely to happen. Thank you Craigslist, and a nice little 67 RS/SS350 with a NOM, partial interior redo and the need for a complete paintjob was located. I definitely paid too much, but in the end it turned out to be a nice California car, garaged since 1980, with absolutely no rust repair needed anywhere. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think that there was an unharmed panel anywhere on the beast, but she was definitely not rusty! Since I knew that I was going to radically re-make the car, I wasn't too worried about the current drivetrain, so I knew that it ran but I didn't even test drive it before the purchase, but I hadn't thought about getting it from it's current home in Belmont to my house in Santa Clara. For a variety of reasons, my wife drove me over to pick it up on one of the hottest days of the year, in the late afternoon (i.e. during rush hour), and I hadn't realized how high up the rev range was on the 327 that was in there--in addition to it not being able to stay in 1st or 3rd gear! (later figured out that the shifter was hitting the console and therefore couldn't fully engage). That was a STRESSFUL drive home, with one eye on the temp gauge, trying to figure out how to not fry the clutch while riding in stop-and-go traffic, and having lost sight of my chase vehicle! But there was no actual drama, only imagined, and I was finally the owner of my SECOND 67 Camaro.

This is how she looked in the seller's garage:
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The next chapter introduces our story's hero, Frank at Prodigy Customs. More to come!

[Happyfunballs]

Excellent story so far.

[Tango68SS]

..so you shipped her here to the Sunshine State to have Frank work his magic!! Nice choice! I will follow this one and look in on her while you ply away on the "left coast"...

[dug]

why you gotta leave us hanging?

[sjaroslo]

why you gotta leave us hanging?

Sorry, it was lunch, and even though I've been waiting for almost 2 years to be able to start this thread, I'm still typing it on-the-fly and I really don't know what's going to come spilling out next until I'm sitting here at the keyboard! Thanks for reading.

[sjaroslo]

I lurked on this site and Team Camaro for some time, gathering ideas and watching others' dreams be turned into reality, and I noticed a supporting vendor who was going out of his way to provide advice, counsel and expertise to help others, in addition to running a pretty cool shop and turning out some pretty decent projects for many of you here. I had a general idea of what I wanted, but had nowhere near enough knowledge to feel like I could make educated decisions about the direction of my build, and as a result, I decided to take up Frank on his offers to consult on my project and determine some products to use and a direction to take. I should also at this time give a well-deserved shout-out to a gentleman at Campbell Auto Restorations, here in my neck of the woods in Silicon Valley. I regrettably don't remember his name, but I had also heard very favorable comments on the boards regarding the quality and thoroughness of their work, and he was very kind to look over my car, give me a lengthy tour of their facility, and helped me to frame up some realistic expectations of what a quality build was going to take for my car. I must admit, as rational as I was trying to be about the work needed, I was living in a fairyland compared to what a true high-end shop was going to do to create a memorable Pro Touring machine.

This is probably a good time to digress and point out a few facts that you may have already gleaned from having read this far: I possess a reasonable mechanical ability--nothing approaching what many of you exhibit here every day with your projects and your amazing customizations, but I can bolt things together OK. In fact, that is the best summary of my talents--I can bolt things together OK. I'm not that creative, I'm not that talented, I'm not that patient. So I knew that fabrication, welding, and most definitely paint and bodywork were NOT my bailiwick, but I knew from my time in high school and my experiences with the Corvette that I definitely wanted to be involved in doing a lot of the mechanical work on the car. So, having spent time with the folks at CAR the day before, I finally screwed up the courage to give Frank, a total stranger and a busy man, a call the next day and see about picking his brain. We had a fantastic, wide-ranging conversation that actually touched on all aspects of a nice Pro Touring Camaro build, with Frank sharing his experiences of having actually worked with many of the confusing choices available to us in this fabulous day-and-age of hot rodding. He provided me high level ballpark estimates on all of the major sub-systems, and really gave me food for thought regarding the reality of what these choices would cost. I took copious notes, thanked him for the generous amount of time that he had spent with me, and went about my business, head swimming with all of this new found detail to try to comprehend and digest.

The story might have ended there, or at least stalled out, as I had a lot to think about and CAR had a lengthy waiting list, if I was going to end up going that route, when I received a fortuitous call the next day from Frank--a scheduled build project had fallen through, and even though our previous conversation hadn't really centered around Prodigy actually doing any work for me, might I be interested in considering slotting my build in to this newly available slot? I was overjoyed at the prospect of having my car become a Prodigy-built vehicle, so after a little soul searching and discussions with the wife, and review of the financial situation, the decision was made and the Butternut Build was born!

Here she is on the transporter in December of 2010, Florida-bound:
eBW-nSelry4

[sjaroslo]

What sold me, beyond Prodigy's reputation and expertise, was Frank's notion of a "roller"--a weathertight, painted and welded/fabricated body where they do all of the work for which I possess no skills, yet I still get a little "skin in the game" by being responsible for the finishing aspects such as powertrain, wiring & electrical, plumbing, and brakes. Much of that will be a stretch for my skills and abilities, but I feel that I can at least develop a passable attempt at completion. Even though I did feel that engine and transmission placement was in my wheelhouse, we were a little uncertain on whether the Magnum T56 was going to require trans hump modification (it did not) and the prospect of dangling a half-ton of engine/transmission over the top of my newly painted fenders was more intimidating than I could bear, so we factored in to the build that I would purchase the engine and have it delivered to Prodigy where they would mate it to the clutch, scattershield and trans and stab it in place for me.

Here are the basics of the direction I decided to take, mostly with Frank's assistance, some of my own pre-conceived notions:

AME front sub-frame
LSX 454 GMPP Crate Engine
T56 Magnum trans w/Quicktime scattershield
Smoothed firewall
DSE Mini Tubs
DSE sub-frame connectors
Chris Alston Chassisworks g-link rear suspension
Chris Alston Chassisworks FAB9 rear end housing with Moser 35-spline axles and Wave-Trac Ford 9" pumpkin
Prodigy Smoked Glass kit
Wilwood brake package
Prodigy core support, aluminum radiator and A/C condenser
Dynamat install (this is me being fat & lazy)
Stainless Works headers, Magnaflow stainless 3" exhaust, Prodigy tailpipe kit
Ididit steering column
Retro-Electro headlight door kit

So, that's the parts list, now a little about the finish selected. Remember back in my teens it was a yellow Camaro on the cover of a magazine that hit me hard and made me dream of owning a yellow Camaro someday. Unfortunately, my lovely wife had equally strong feelings AGAINST yellow cars.... I had been showing her pictures of the mustardy-yellow of that original car of my dreams, but she quickly categorized it as being "school bus yellow" and quickly disabused me of the notion that our Camaro would be that color. Around that time, I had purchased a copy of Jason Scott's Camaro Restoration Guide by Motorbooks Workshop, which at that time pictured a beautifully restored Butternut 67 on the cover. Don't get me wrong, I've been a huge fan of original Butternut Yellow also since high school, when a fellow student threw me the keys to his Butternut convertible one July afternoon and let me take it for a drive, it just wasn't the color that I had in my head at the time. "What about this color yellow?" I asked, showing her the cover of the book. "Now THAT'S a nice yellow!" was the reply, and again, the die was cast. I know that this is a very polarizing color, but I have absolutely no qualms about it, I love it. And keeping marital harmony is a huge deal when you've been together with your lady for this long--besides which I have learned many, many years ago, SHE has the eye for color and design--I sadly DO NOT. If Butternut was a yellow that she could embrace, that's what we were going to do.

I should also mention that I truly appreciate the Camaro restoration movement, and while I didn't suspect that my mini-tubbed and lowered Pro-Touring Camaro was going to fool anyone into thinking that it was a nuts-and-bolts resto, I did at least at that time have plans to give a generous nod to the stock appearance of these beautiful cars. A very close friend is a purist and owns a very nice survivor, lightly modded, and he tried his best to be my conscience and made sure that stock appearances weren't too far off of the radar. At the time, Wheel Vintiques 17" was about as radical as I was planning to get in the wheels and tire department...

Thanks for indulging me so far, guys. I promise that the good stuff is on its way.

[sjaroslo]

This might be a good opportunity to discuss the wisdom of shipping your car from California to Florida to have it worked on.... Was it a wise financial decision? At the time, with my fuzzy logic, I tried to justify it by the huge gap between hourly labor rates between Northern California and Orlando, FL--roughly $100 per hour here at the time, and $60 there in 2010. I figured that there were a lot of hours in the build (there were) and that at $40 per hour difference, that certainly takes some of the edge off--which it did, but let's not kid ourselves to the same degree that I did at the time. $900+ to get it out there (open carrier), $2200+ to get it back (high-end enclosed carrier), and a couple of flights out there to check on progress, and you need a hell of a lot more hours than it would take to bang out a brand new car from flat stock to justify this decision on a financial basis.... Would I do it again, is probably the better question to ask, and given the same set of financial considerations, and knowing what I have sitting in my garage at the moment, I think that the answer would have to be "yes!" Maybe not quite as emphatically as I made the decision originally, but I am so happy with how the car turned out and the knowledge that I own a Prodigy-built Pro Touring Camaro is worth something to me. I know that sounds a bit shallow, but truth be told, I'm OK with that.

Here are a few progress pix I'm happy to be able to finally share:

The build begins
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This is the first time in over 30 years I have owned a Camaro that was all one color (even if it is primer)!
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The mini-tubs commence
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Body work central
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The interior gets some attention
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On to the rotisserie!
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DSE weld-in sub-frame connectors--awesome
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[sjaroslo]

Can't begin to express the joy in one's heart when pictures of the first painted panel roll in. How can a grown man get giddy over a photograph of the underside of a trunk lid?? We'll move quickly through here because my fingers are tired and I want to get to the really good stuff!

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Now, you didn't think that I was going to make it that easy on Frank, did you? I wanted the Rally Sport stripe, I wanted the pinstripes.... Originally Frank was going to sub out the stripes but he came up with a great method of using paint, so my stripes are not only beautiful but they are in paint, under the clear, and the car's flanks are as smooth as a baby's behind. Here's the black base going down.
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Fresh out of the booth! Sit in the Florida sunshine for a while and bake...
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Let the color sanding begin
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Some assembly required! We've jumped forward quite a bit, and you can see the Smoked Glass kit on the ground, getting prepped to be installed.
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[68firebird]

Great story, love your ideas.

[sjaroslo]

This feels like a good time to delve a little deeper into my experience with Prodigy. While I am absolutely pleased with the end results, I will acknowledge, as I think will Frank, that everything was not entirely peaches and cream all of the time on the build. I do want to say, first and foremost, that nothing has changed my feelings about Frank as a person and as a carbuilder. I honestly believe that he conducts himself with the utmost respect for his customer and their property, and from having had the pleasure of hanging out with him several times and in various venues, I can attest that he is above all an honest, forthright gentleman. I don't believe for a minute some of the accusations that have been levied his way. I can say that we conducted this transaction on the basis of a telephone call and an Excel spreadsheet! The prices that Frank quoted me in December of 2010 are the prices that he charged me when the progress billings came through. He is a man of integrity and he is sincere, and his adherence to his quoted prices is a large source of pride for him, which I appreciated.

Where the major source of any tension between us stemmed from was the timeline. I don't know if it is obvious from the pictures, but my build started right around the time that Frank was changing shops, and was going through quite a few personal issues with a staff member, and that all cascaded on to my build. It started out in Apopka but transitioned to Sanford. So, my expectations were set early that we were probably looking at 6 to 8 months, and it turned in to 18.... Although I shipped the car in December to fill the slot, it wasn't touched until April of 2011, so that colored my opinion on how things were progressing throughout the build. In retrospect, I think that if the expectation of an 18 month build had been set upfront, I would have been much less nervous and overly annoying. In the end, I put a lot of pressure on him to wrap up the work and get the car on a carrier, and he did, and I've been very happy. Of course he didn't know at the time everything that was in front of him, and I probably could have been a little more understanding and patient, but in the end all's well.

I think it has been said before here that I think Frank became somewhat a victim of his own success, and his business practices hadn't caught up to the level of sophistication and the volume of projects that are moving through his shop, and I think that is the area he most needs to concentrate on. And I believe that he has and continues to improve, and I am here to endorse him 100%. I have several more thousands of dollars in parts ordered through him, and I look forward to still sucking him dry of information, help and guidance moving forward. And the same goes for you on the forum, as well, as you'll see that I have a crapload of work still ahead of me, and little idea on what to do first!

[WS6]

Love Butternut Yellow! Glad to see a car being built with that combination.

[sjaroslo]

Here's the initial payoff, if you've hung in with me this far. A few shots in the driveway before she left on her journey, and how she looked this weekend when she last saw the light of day for likely another 18 months!

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I personally feel that even these pictures don't do the car justice. I can spend a lot of time in the garage, just staring at her, and seeing the light bounce off of the curves and angles.... I have never owned a car this shiny and gorgeous!

[sjaroslo]

I am tickled every single time I see this. It's the little things.... :-)

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(looks like I found another spot to hit with spray wash and detailer, sorry!)

Here's how she sits today in the garage:

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I didn't mention specifically that the plan to stay pretty stock appearing flew out the window when I determined that Wheel Vintiques didn't make a Rally wheel replica beefy enough to harness the enormous meats that I wanted to put on the car. Then Frank ran an ad for a set of Forgelines that were available at a price too good to pass up. I'm not 100% positive that I would have chosen this exact wheel if I was making the decision from scratch, but I couldn't be happier with how these look on the car today, and the price was right! Also, I succumbed to the shiny objects of the Marquez brothers and couldn't resist Fesler's huge sale at the end of last year.... Marquez taillights and SS gas cap. Fesler hood hinges, hood latch, trunk hinges, door handles, and fender struts (still have to see if I can make them work with the new radiator support....). Bling on top of bling, man.

Motivation:

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[sjaroslo]

After spending hours getting her up on stands last weekend, I had to do SOMETHING to get started on MY portion of the build, so I did the "logical" thing--started with the starter.

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I'm sure this won't be the last time for it to be bolted up, as there was no physical way to measure clearances and view tooth engagement, with everything already assembled, but I had to get something accomplished.

Now, I'm faced with what to do to really keep the momentum going. I'm thinking that plumbing (fuel, brake and power steering) is the logical first step of the build, and it is intimidating the crap out of me. Where do I start? Should I buy pre-manufactured stuff from Inline or Classic Tube for a stock Camaro and modify it as needed to fit my new reality? Should I start from scratch? If so, with what products and where? AME sells a brake line kit for their subframe, but it is pretty pricy--but would be worth it if I knew it was a bolt-in fit and would work with the Wilwood stuff that is coming--but I don't know. My Stainless Works tank is coming soon from Rick's (had a wonderful telephone conversation with Hector several days ago--apparently he is from this neck of the woods and still has family here, so I think he felt a little homesick talking to me!) but the entire fuel system plumbing experience also lies in front of me. I just know that I need to make some decisions soon, so that I can get materials on hand and begin to take advantage of these Summer weekends coming up. I look forward to one day enjoying driving the car on those weekends, but for now, working on it is where my attention is focused.

Additional items on their way: the aforementioned stainless steel tank with Vaporworx CTS-V fuel module (flow control to be ordered from CarlC sometime soon), AAW complete wiring harness, Wegner complete front serpentine drive and accessories, Vintage Air Gen IV A/C. Still to be procured, GM LS7 intake, DBW throttle body and fuel injectors/rails, and a GM coil kit, plus seats and the rest of the interior (Frank had a great upholstery guy do a new headliner while the car was getting buttoned up and that allowed me to complete (I hope) the final transition to becoming a Deluxe Interior car, even though it wasn't born that way).

I have to say, one of THE most daunting tasks facing me is that every single nut, bolt, screw, washer, grommet, gasket, clip, clamp and connector has been removed from the car--that's what you want when you are getting the kind of show-quality paint job that Prodigy is known for--but they were all removed by Michael at Prodigy--not by me! But as per our agreement, what was returned is a rolling shell, and so I have NO IDEA what needs to go where, how it goes together, what has to go first and what has to go second, what I still might need and what I can do without, etc. etc. It is something that you guys with limited knowledge and abilities such as myself really need to keep in mind should you decide to go this route as well. If I had taken it apart, at least I would have been able to take photos, save the old parts, and MAYBE could have developed some inherent knowledge of how it is supposed to go back together. As it stands, you will all be sick of me asking ridiculous questions about Camaro reassembly before Butternut sees the light of day again, under her own power.

I'm not certain that spending one's entire 4th of July posting on Pro-Touring.com would be everybody's cup of tea, but this has been a very satisfying experience for me; I've waited a long time to have a bank of photos and a story to share. I don't expect anyone to learn anything from my build--I'm no innovator, I don't have "the touch" that's going to make this a show-worthy or magazine-worthy build, but it is my car, I'm planning to have fun with it, and I'll welcome anyone who is interested to join me in the journey. Thanks and stay tuned!

[sjaroslo]

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[boostin05blacksti]

Steve,
What a great story from start to current. There is many recurring things here..name, car, motor, trans, yellow.. I love the build man. It's been my pleasures to have meet you before this thread has opened. I started reading and then realized that I knew you. What can I say other than great minds think alike. Just as I was finishing reading I get a pm..listen man. Don't sweat the small stuff and just try to focus on one thing at a time. You CAN do it! Trust me..if I can anyone can. Just take your time and you'll get there. As far as what to tackle first feel free to give me a call. I don't know all the answers but I've been in your shoes. A bit of info on the brakes..now there is many different options and kits so the first bit of info needed is that. Manual, power..what setup ect. I went manual all wilwood. Actually bought my brake kit from prodigy. Master is a 7/8 and am running wilwoods dustribution/proportioning valve. - all fittings for the prop valve/block are 3/16 lines. I ordered stock lines from inline tube and the rear stock line is 1/4. I have a adapter that fixes that issue. I would do everything the same but when ordering get inline to make the one piece rear line that goes to the rear "T" in stainless at 3/16. Then all lines are the same. Also the rear line from the master to distribution block is 1/4 but the stock bends will not work. You can have them make a custom line by mocking up a coat hanger and sending it to them, again having it made in 3/16. Give me a ring this week man well talk... Looks great so far. I'm sure the finish will be outstanding.

[falcon269]

As the happy owner of a Steve-built 66 Corvette, I have every confidence in your abilities and look forward to sharing your journey. Route 66 awaits!

[68firebird]

Looks great!!! I am super jealous. prodigy did a great job. congrats, money well spent in my opinion, LOL, my wife would say otherwise.

[Happyfunballs]

I hope to find a Butternut 67 one day. Looks fantastic.

[NOT A TA]

Great write up Steve! Good luck with the rest of the build.

[BCHALK22]

Nice car and cool story

[bonecrrusher]

Digging the color.

[ProTouring442]

Stunning!!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[sjaroslo]

Thanks a lot for the encouragement, everyone, I really appreciate it. I know that my saga was a little (!) self-indulgent but again, it was a story a long time in the making....

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Great read Steve. Enjoy the journey!

[WS6]

Get yourself a factory assembly manual. I'm sure they are out there and readily available for the car. This should help you put the car back together even with all the changes. Of course, posting pictures and asking for help works too. Good luck. The wheels look fantastic. The posed before and after shots are great.

[Motorcitydak]

Really nice write up! I also like the way you duplicated the old photo's

[sjaroslo]

...And it ain't much! Still waiting on parts to roll in and looking for advice to get going on the plumbing, so while this morning's plan was to do some undercarriage reconnaissance with respect to what kinds of clips, brackets and holes remain available to hold hard lines and e-brake cables, etc., I decided to tackle the Console mount bracket. Would it have been easier to install this bracket before the trans went in? Oh, HELL yes. But my fat fingers and a u-joint socket on one side and a ratcheting box end wrench on the other (two clicks, tighten, repeat, for about 20 minutes) conspired to get it in.

My American Autowire kit showed up, and I'm spending money on new parts like a drunken sailor (my CC company blocked a huge online order I was trying to place with Heartbeat City over the weekend and sent me a text message--"Is this you trying to place this order?" "Yes, please." "OK.") and I'm not sure where I'm going to find the space for all of the boxes that I'm still anticipating from Wegner, Vintage Air, HBC and Rick's Camaros, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Right now, with the car in the air, I'm not doing anything else until I figure out the fuel and brake plumbing and the e-brake requirements and routing--but I'm still waiting for the tank from Rick's (expected any day now) and the rest of the Wilwood brake kit from Frank.

Lots and lots of questions, not too many answers--probably a good epitaph.
62086

[Steve68]

very nice, looks like Frank,Bob, Michael took care of you, Looks like the move to Sanford, swallowed lots of cars, parts, and time into the black hole!

[zzfranczz]

Great story. I am as well on the west coast and have a 1967 Camaro. I like the name of the build and am still fishing for mine. For what is worth I copied your list from the post to my notes, as is. It is similar to what I had in mind (can not afford the LSX but that was my original plan) and like you started out a few years back with a call to Frank. If anything he filled my head with dreams of PT cars and realities of costs as well as an understanding of the process. I can only say I have much respect for the guy and that is the advice I am still using to guide my build. Not having funds or time I am still waiting to get my project rolling. It would have been a no brainer for me if he had been on the West Coast.

Anyway keep the posts and pics rolling up. Your efforts on the fourth are greatly appreciated. Good luck in finishing.

[sjaroslo]

Thanks, Frank, I appreciate the post and the bump to get my build back on the front page :-) I have updates to post--just not nearly as many as I would like--but knowing that folks are actually getting something from the thread helps with the motivation. Maybe I will try to set aside some time during the Thanksgiving downtime to post an update!

Although there is no question that the work that Prodigy did for me is top notch, unfortunately, at the moment, there is no way that I could recommend him with a clear conscience. Something has obviously gone horribly awry, which is just plain unfortunate, but now that my calls and e-mails are no longer returned, and he owes me over $600 worth of product that was bought and paid for months and months and months ago with no prospect of it ever happening in sight, I would steer clear until a thorough explanation is provided. I will be the first guy to jump back on the Frank bandwagon if he can get it together, but until then, please don't go there based on any recommendation from me. Man, that just pains me to even have to say....

[130fe]

Steve, I agree with your post 100%. My car is the blue 68 in post 11. I was there last Feb when the LS conversion was started........ My situation might be different than others because I am from Orlando originally and have time (we don't return back to the states until next July) to wait. I originally wanted to do the LS swap, change suspension and do minitubs but the lack of communication and recent trend of transactions (others) has changed that decision. I just hope the LS swap will be done by the time I get back......

[fxdlryan]

Steve,

I love your build. I think your car was in process while I had my horrible experience with Prodigy. $36,000 worth of parts paid for and after 3 months, nothing delivered. I filed a credit card dispute, got my money back from the credit card company and moved on. No axe to grind here, Frank is a knowledgebale guy and would probably be a great guy to have a beer with. But under no circumstance would I ever do business with him again nor recommned anyone else do so.

[sjaroslo]

Well, much time has passed and unfortunately I don't have as much to show for it as I would like! Amazingly, the plumbing STILL sits, waiting for me to get my act together, but I have found various other small projects to try to keep my mind off of the intimidation factor of the plumbing. In fact, I've even made some progress on that front, so all is not lost--I just can't seem to get out there to make a final push for a final design. More on plumbing perhaps later.

As I had mentioned earlier in the thread, everything was relatively rosy back in the July timeframe, with the expensive parts that I had ordered mostly through Prodigy rolling in--Wegner serpentine drive system, Rick's Tanks/Vaporworx system (unfortunately, after a very lengthy delay waiting for the CTS-V pump to arrive before they shipped out the tank, they shipped the wrong tank--no corner notches as was ordered by Prodigy--but Hector was all over the mistake, had the correct tank out to me in a jiffy, and arranged for FedEx to pick up the other one), Vintage Air, and a bunch of Wilwood stuff--so it was the Wilwood stuff that I decided to tackle first.

I have another thread here https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?92569-Wilwood-Caliper-Alignment that delves into an issue or two that popped up during the front rotor install, and sorry for the duplication of some pix, but it has been rewarding if not a little frustrating, but I suspect that's how most builds go.

The truly crazy part is that, once I got up the nerve to say "OK, I'm going to tackle the front brakes installation!," I got out in to the garage, got all of my tools lined up, and did Step 1: Undo lug nuts and remove front wheels--except the wheels would not budge! I beat 'em and kicked 'em and rocked 'em and rolled 'em, and they were like on there with Super Glue or something... :hammer: Anyway, one of the things that you learn when you have your car built in Florida is that everything that can, comes back with a fine glaze of surface rust on it.... Because the wheels had been riding directly on the hubs (no rotors in place), they had developed a slight resistance fit due to the hub-centric design. A careful application of a stout screwdriver-as-prybar actually got the marriage to break up, and the very simplest of everything that I was going to be doing for that part of the project was finally accomplished! I hoped it would all be downhill from there, but maybe not so much.

So as not to bore the ones who have stayed here and not checked out the caliper alignment thread, the short story is, once the calipers were all bolted up nicely (and they are beautiful and the instructions are really good and the rotors are HUGE and weigh a ton), I was not happy with how the caliper centered over the rotor, but thanks to the suggestions of several Forum members, especially Jay at The GMR, we came to the conclusion that either Morrison doesn't include (or Prodigy had removed and forgotten to reinstall) the C6 bracket that holds the wheel anti-lock sensor. The thickness of that bracket was just the right amount that would re-align the caliper/rotor relationship perfectly. The parts were less than $10 each, and after some Dremel work, some ball joint work, some Torx head work, some Loctite work, I was able to get everything back to the state that it SHOULD have been in the first place and those disc brake pads slid in like a hot knife through butter! Of course, if I had known at the time, this would have ALSO been a great time to have replaced the front wheel studs--but that is fodder for yet another of my ridiculous threads: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?94504-Locking-Lug-Nut-Pipe-Dream

Although it was logical to begin on the front brakes, it was also practical, because the major parts that I was still waiting for from Prodigy were my rear calipers and a few smaller brake-related parts. Unfortunately, this is where the phone calls and e-mails stopped even being acknowledged, and I am out the $600+ that it took to source them from Summit, which pisses me off more than just about anything that has happened with my relationship with Frank. It especially stings after I stick my neck out to publicly endorse him in this forum and end up, in essence, with him having stolen that money from me. As I said earlier, in no way does any of this take away from the beautiful car that the shop bolted together for me, but my ringing endorsement earlier on just feels pretty embarrassing these days. I hope that something changes and that there is a future for Prodigy but for right now, they are on my sheit list.

BUT, once I put the anger behind me, I ordered up my parts and actually, am right in the middle of working on the rear rotor/caliper installation as I type. In taking apart the rear brakes, I found that I wasn't particularly impressed with the safety-wiring that the shop had done on the rear rotors/hubs, so I took them all apart, re-torqued the bolts, and re-safety wired. I also picked up a replacement caliper mounting kit and shims, because I want to re-do the work that the shop did there, as well. I am curious if they used Loctite on the mounting bolts, so I'll find out. If they did, I may abort my plan of re-doing it, unless I absolutely have to.

Let me post this up and then I'll start working on some pictures to go along with the narration... :postpics:

[sjaroslo]

Yes, my rotor is as large as the stock wheel on a 67 Camaro. Yes, I may be compensating for something; I try not to analyze it too deeply
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Safety wiring is actually fun!
67873

The hub is off
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Who would have thought that a little piece of sheet metal could be such a PITA??
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Stevie likes!
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The work on the rears begins; Florida = SURFACE RUST!
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Safety wiring the rears is a little less fun than the fronts because of the drum/parking brake protrusion. Why are the rears, done by the shop, so much more banged up than the fronts, done by the rank amateur? :dunno:
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[sjaroslo]

One thing that has remained a constant for me through this process has been the incredible transfer of wealth directly AWAY from me and into the pockets of the various vendors who support our habits and tempt us with really, really cool stuff! Through the setbacks, through the delays, through the adversity, somehow I have mustered up the strength, the determination, the intestinal fortitude to continue to charge things to the credit cards with wild abandon! But oh, my, there is just too much neat stuff out there. Since my initial post, the UPS and FedEx deliveries have continued to stream in, unabated. I'm doing my part for America. :usa:

Twist Machine Shift Handle
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Coil pack bracket from CBM
67881

Wilwood Master Cylinder
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Wegner Serpentine drive pulleys and polished accessories
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Lingenfelter Engine Block Oil Feed Adapter Kit (although difficult to see in the photo, this beautiful piece has two ports on it, one I'm using for my auxiliary oil pressure gauge and the other for the oil temperature gauge that I'll be adding--plus I can run the stock sender up top for the ECU [although the documentation says that the ECU doesn't need to see the oil pressure signal, which I think is crazy])
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American Autowire complete wiring set
67887

GMPP Ignition Coils & Wiring from Fred Beans
67888

GMPP Intake manifold and throttle body from Fred Beans
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Plus about half of every black fitting that Fragola makes, plus about a million smaller items here and there from NPD, Rick's, Classic Industries, etc. I'm sure I've bought some parts twice :-(

My Christmas list contains the following (although I am not expecting to receive any of this from anyone, just more of a "wish list," I guess):
Twist machine billet fire extinguisher and mount kit
Marquez inside rear view mirror (even with my spending with reckless abandon, this one is hard to justify at the price!)
Norris catch can
PRC or Billet Specialties Coolant Overflow tank
DSE Wiper Motor
Fesler headlights (just ordered these through their Black Friday sale)
Braille Battery and billet holddown

And someday, at the very end of the build (so maybe never), Corbeau LG1-wides in black leather with seat heaters ("wide," for me, "seat heaters" for the missus)

OK, I have a little more to share with regard to plumbing, but I need to run to the store to pick up some stuffing and veggies for OUR turkey, as we were away at family for the main day--no leftovers for us! A tragedy (see "wide seat needed" above...). I really appreciate your taking the time to read and look through the pictures; comments are always welcome, and encouragement seems to do me wonders! Thanks.

[WS6]

Good looking parts you've got there. Merry Christmas early.

[sjaroslo]

Finally got all of the missing parts and pieces assembled to work on the rear brakes this weekend. After struggling for a while, and then taking measurements and comparing part numbers, etc., finally came to the realization that Prodigy shipped me FRONT rotors (1.25" thick) on the back of the car rather than REAR ROTORS (1.10" thick)! That .15" makes a difference when you're trying to slide brake pads in, let me tell you. So, finally being fed up with the lack of attention to detail and the generally shoddy assembly work that they did, on top of the dinged-up parts, surface rust and mish-mash of hardware, spacers, washers, etc., I boxed up the new calipers and pads that I had purchased from Summit and sent them back and just ordered the complete damned kit. I think that they did the assembly of the backing plate/parking brake correctly, although guaranteed they did not Red Loctite the nuts as per the directions, so I don't think that I have to disassemble any of that aspect of it (which is good because I really don't want to learn how to pull axles), but at least now I'll get to start over with new stuff that looks like it is new.... Can't believe how much experience I'm going to have with safety wire by the time this is all complete. And maybe one of you fine chaps out there might need some of my "never been used even if they sort of look like it" piece parts for a very fair price for your projects....

Should also mention that my brother came down last week to help me install my Rick's Stainless tank, but due to poor preparation on my part, I didn't realize that there is supposed to be a sheet metal screw run trough the "hook" end of the strap (making it in to a positive "loop" rather than an open "hook") and I'm following up to see if Rick's recommend that I use any of the factory-anti-squeak material, as there were no instructions that came with the tank.... So she's got to come back out.

I know the saying is "two steps forward, one step back," but I can't help but feel like "two steps back" all too often. Oh, well, this is the "fun" part, right? :banghead:

[The Am1nal]

wow, excellent build!

[LUV2XLR8]

Looking at your LS... where or whom makes those black annodized brackets?

[sjaroslo]

Looking at your LS... where or whom makes those black annodized brackets?
Benny, what brackets are you asking about? If you're referring to the front accessories (alternator, power steering), that is the Wegner WAK033R (I think) from Wegner Motorsports http://www.wegnerautomotive.com/ ; I'm not sure that they have it listed on their website, but it is beautiful stuff and I'm looking forward to getting it installed. Also, Casey Wegner has been a great person to work with, very true to his word and responsive.

[LUV2XLR8]

yes, i was looking at the accessory bracket... they look really nice... and machining looks clean... also fitment looks great!.. i will check out their web site... thanks again for the info!! :)



Benny, what brackets are you asking about? If you're referring to the front accessories (alternator, power steering), that is the Wegner WAK033R (I think) from Wegner Motorsports http://www.wegnerautomotive.com/ ; I'm not sure that they have it listed on their website, but it is beautiful stuff and I'm looking forward to getting it installed. Also, Casey Wegner has been a great person to work with, very true to his word and responsive.

[sjaroslo]

Benny: It looks like Pace Performance might actually have more shown on their web site than Wegner does! It looks like my kit might be called the WAK033-2T, according to Pace:

http://paceperformance.com/i-9053645-wak033-2t-ls-front-drive-with-p-steering-and-a-c-with-2-tone-retro-finish.html

[LUV2XLR8]

Thanks for the link!!

[sjaroslo]

I have made a few minor steps forward on my build. I have GOT to get re-focused on some plumbing, but in the meantime, I've completely re-done the rear brakes from stem-to-stern and finally got the wind wing handles installed--certainly not an item necessary for getting the car running, but they had been bugging me! Also got my new license plates from the DMV :)!

I've had a few silly related sub-threads on these topics going on, which I'll link here just to keep everything on the build thread tied together, and I can't say that I'm particularly proud of the speed of my progress, but it is what it is....

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?95609-Drilling-Rotor-Hat-for-Larger-Studs
https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?95196-Here-s-Your-Rear-Disk-Brake-Lesson-for-the-Day
https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?95239-Axle-Removal-Ford-9-quot

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[KHShapiro]

Good looking build and I've felt your pain in dealing with prodigy and a few other vendors . keep pushing on

[SickSpeedMonte]

Check this out for your brake/fuel line plumbing.

http://www.cunifer.com/

Doesn't rust, and is easy to work with unlike stainless. They have some nice flaring tools, but I have read that this one works very well for much less dough.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Eastwood/Eastwood-Professional-Brake-Tubing-Flaring-Tool/1330564/10002/-1

I use one of these (http://image.rodandcustommagazine.com/f/31248018/1001rc_04_o+1949_chevy_brake_lines+tube_benders.jp g) to bend. I actually found it at home depot, and it works very well.

Don't be intimidated by the plumbing. Fabricating hardlines isn't bad if you take your time. It's kinda therapeutic actually. Just use a sharpy to mark where to start the bend, and make a line along the length of the tube on the outside of the bend to point the bend in the right direction. Before you know it, the hardest part will be remembering to put the damn fitting on before you flare the end! ;)

The sharpy comes off with acetone, and you can even polish those cunifer lines if you are so inclined.

[sjaroslo]

I took last Friday off work, and I've spent the last 3 days in the garage bending and cutting lines. I wish that there was more to show for it, but the good news is that the bending is all done! My plan all along has been to cobble together the lines I want in mild steel and then send them back to Inline Tube to be replicated in stainless with all of the correct terminations--I'm definitely closer than I've ever been. Bernie, thanks for the advice and the words of encouragement--I think that if I was doing it again I would have given more serious thought to the Cunifer approach, or even the Dorman plastic route that I know a few of you guys have taken, but for now, for my first build, for this car, I'm going with the stainless.... I don't think that I likely discovered the BEST routes or made the prettiest bends or even came up with the smartest plan, but for now, it is "good enough." I think that I need to tell myself that a little more often. I'm not planning on winning the Riddler Award any time soon, and I even have relatively thick skin if someone ends up laughing at my amateur job, I just want to get it "good enough" to be safe and moving forward and someday actually moving down the road.

So, to recap, my car has an Art Morrison front clip, DSE weld-in sub-frame connectors, and a Chris Alston Chassisworks g-link rear end with a Ford 9" in a Fab9 housing and mini-tubs. Surprisingly, I would say about 70% of the pre-fab, stock 1967 Camaro fuel and brake lines worked just fine. In fact, the brake line that runs to the rear of the car needed no alteration for the part that is under the body all of the way back; only the front part that pokes up in to the engine bay needed to be re-done (I'm also using a Wilwood proportioning valve tucked underneath the master cylinder that definitely alters the geometry). Both ends of the fuel line required extensive modification, but again, the part underneath the car needed no work whatsoever.

It looks like I'll be able to use the stock rear flex line from the body to the differential, and I think I'm even able to re-purpose the stock Camaro brake bracket that is supposed to attach to one of the bolts of the 12-bolt; because the studs on the Ford are facing the front of the car instead of the rear like on the 12-bolt, I swapped the bracket over to the passenger side (so that I could put an S-bend in the hose and take up some slack but still provide enough length to accommodate rear end motion) and ran the short length of hard line to that caliper and ran the longer, over-the-top-of-the-differential line on the driver's side.

Here's what THREE DAYS of work netted me:
72219
Front and rear of the fuel line, front of the rear brake line, left and right rear brake lines, and the line to the "tee" that feeds the front brakes. As I said, I need to cobble the parts that I made on to the remaining portions of the pre-fab lines and send them back to replicated.

Here you can just see the mocked-up master cylinder, proportioning valve, and the line I made that runs from the proportioning valve to the front "tee" for the front brakes:
72218

I will give myself a little credit in that the initial left and right rear brake hardlines that I made were hideous--one of them was in three different parts and the other was a pre-fab line that I started with that was a few inches too long so I ended up with some extra bends and weird shapes to take up slack. I almost did say "good enough" but thankfully I still had some more straight stock on hand, so I took the deep breath, vowed to take it slow, didn't worry too much about how I got the line to bend the way I needed it to bend (since I'm getting them done over) and just went through and re-did both lines--I'm much happier with the pieces that I ended up with....

Like I said, not much to show for three days of work!

[SickSpeedMonte]

Looks good from where I'm sitting! I see you used the sharpy to your advantage :)

Things take time to do well, especially when you have never done them. If you had to do it again, I bet it would go much quicker. Also, I think that the TV shows and most build threads make things seem a lot easier than they really are because people usually only stop to take a picture when they have something to show for their efforts. That just makes it look like things progress in leaps and bounds.

[sjaroslo]

Oh, yeah, Sharpie city! But of course just when I'm starting to build confidence that I know where my marks will end up while working with the 3/16" line, I started working on the 3/8" line--and that is a completely different animal. Reminds me of the time I visited Switzerland, we were staying in a French canton and as we wandered out and about, and ended up at a shop somewhere, I would repeat "Bon Jour, Bon Jour" over and over in my head so that I could try to sound pleasant to the shopkeeper when we exchanged greetings. On this particular day, I had forgotten that we had traveled to an Italian canton, and when I was greeted with "Buon Giorno!" when stepping in the door, I froze in my tracks.... Don't get me started about when we visited Zurich! :)

[sjaroslo]

Still need to get the full lines cobbled together, marked, and ready for shipment back to Inline Tube, but that might be my project for tomorrow. In the meantime, I got the flexlines run from the frame to the front calipers, and I flipped the fuel rail around on the intake manifold, so that the input points to the passenger side now. That matches the work I did last weekend on fabbing up the fuel hardline. I also once again spread out the GM engine management harness on the dining room table, this time more or less trying to envision how it will lay out in the engine compartment; I'm beginning to get a better picture in my head! Also asked Speartech to fab up a short Oxygen Sensor extension harness, with the signal wires split out, so that I'll be able to drive my NVU O2 gauge.... The weather is getting warmer (I know that it is all relative, sorry) and that is definitely helping to get the juices flowing.

Flexline routing (suspension is at full droop)
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Intake Manifold before
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Intake Manifold after
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Harness
Imagine that you are standing at the front of the car, admiring the spaghetti in the engine bay--that's the general layout...
Passenger's Side
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Driver's Side
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Down the back side (VSS, O2, throttle pedal and OBDII)
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[XLexusTech]

That's Awesome!

[sjaroslo]

Can't believe that I've let 2 months slip by with very little progress to show for it.... My brother did come by a few weekends ago and we pulled the fuel tank, fixed the straps, re-did a little of the plumbing to be more inline with what other Vaporworx customers are doing, and made a sizable dent in running the parking brake housings. We have a lot of business and personal travel coming up, so that will cut into car building time, but I really hope to be able to find my second wind and ramp up "production" here with the beautiful summer weather. FINALLY am getting around to shipping off the hard lines to be reproduced in stainless with the proper ends, etc. Can't believe how lazy I've been.

Here is the cobbled up fuel line, in mild steel:
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And here is the brake line pattern:
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As I've said before, probably 60% to 70% of the stock Camaro lines fit just great--it was just the last few feet on each end that gets wonky with the subframe and the g-link.... We'll be in Boston next week, so seems like a good time for Inline Tube to be working their magic. :cheers:

[icemanrd19]

70702

Sorry to sound like a 10 year old but it almost looks like you have "d*ck" vents in your rotors lol

[sjaroslo]

LOL! Get your mind out of the gutter, man! :wedgie:

[sjaroslo]

It's hard to believe that ONE YEAR has passed since I started this thread. It was Fourth of July weekend of 2012 when I started on this journey. In the big picture, it seems so very little has actually transpired--certainly not the amount of progress that I had hoped for, but my wife keeps reminding me that it is a HOBBY and it isn't meant to be all wrapped up in a few weeks. Goodness knows I have not been nearly as energetic about getting out there as I thought or hoped that I would be. My brother has been a great assistant and has made the 90-minute drive down to my house on numerous weekends and I wouldn't even be nearly as far along with the build without having had his support.....

After much consternation, I did receive my hard lines back from Inline tube, so they are the next major item to be installed. I'll need some extra help from my son-in-law on that one, I think, and maybe that will come up in the next few weeks.

In the meantime, we've 95% completed the parking brake installation, and I wanted to share with you how I did it, since the Art Morrison folks weren't extraordinarily helpful in providing suggestions that an amateur like myself could follow, and Frank and the Prodigy crew have fallen off of the face of the Earth, and I had been hoping to leverage my relationship with him for some ongoing advice, so in the end, I was left up to my own devices. Right or wrong, this is what I chose to do.

I used a stock 67 Camaro front cable (in Stainless Steel, from Inline tube) and a Wilwood (Lokar) kit for the rears.

In the first photo you can see the cable snaking down from the stock location and crossing under the Art Morrison subframe; I felt like I needed to get inside the framerail in order to have an effective installation.
78818

Here's where I got tricky (as tricky as I am capable); knowing with the stock installation that the front cable is held tightly from moving as it passes through the subframe, I decided to do a similar thing. I drilled a hole in the side of the crossmember mount that was just the right size for the front cable to fit through, so that the collar of the cable was flush against the crossmember. Then I used the same Mickey Mouse clip that the factory used to secure the housing to the hole. It worked really well! I drilled a second large hole at the other end of the crossmember mount to let the spring and the threaded end of the cable pass through, and made it large enough so that it wouldn't bind up upon release.
78819

I bolted the Wilwood bracket to the floor. Now, one of the minor issues that I had run into was that the Wilwood connector blocks were threaded 5/16" fine, but the end of the stock front cable was threaded 5/16" coarse.... what I ended up doing was taking a 5/16" drill bit and drilling out the connector so that it was smooth; I also used 2 connectors to try to improve the grabbing force, since a lot of you guys have commented that the single block doesn't grab hard enough. I used 5/16" coarse nuts on either side of the blocks (which now slide up and down the threaded end) and now I should actually have one more point of adjustability for the entire set up--which may be important as well, since many of you also report that this entire setup doesn't actually work that well, and I suspect that will be the case for me, too, unfortunately.
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One of the things that I noticed, that I just don't have time to focus on right now, is that the pedal doesn't snap all of the way back to the fully released position. I suspect that this may be because I put a couple of fairly tight 90* bends in the sheaths as I ran them from the connector block back to the rear wheels. I needed to avoid the exhaust, and I did that by routing up and over the driveshaft tunnel and hugging close to the floor under the rear seat; only time will tell if there are too many bends, and/or if there will be any driveshaft interference (driveshaft is yet another paid-for, Prodigy-promised piece that will never happen...). I decided to use the factory parking brake bracket holes that were in place and found a couple of perfect grommets from McMaster-Carr that filled the bill.
78823
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I still need to Dremel off the ends of the rear brake cables to length.

So that's it--not a lot of progress made, but we had a very productive day on Friday. In addition to fairly wrapping up the parking brakes, we were also able to get the headers out (so that new 02 sensor bungs can be welded in) and also installed the flywheel stop http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=36828 in anticipation of the removal and replacement of the harmonic balancer for the Wegner pulley kit. Still need to tweak this a little bit.
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Anyway, life from here into the foreseeable future will be focused on doing what it takes to be able to get the engine running. There's a LOT involved with that, but I'm going to try to defer anything not directly related to firing up that lump until later in the build. If nothing else, I want to be able to wander out to the garage at any time and at least hear it make some rumpety-rumpety noises! Thanks for listening.

[boodlefoof]

Looking good!

[zzfranczz]

Wow! it is coming along really nicely.

[sjaroslo]

Having re-read this build thread, I'm going to try to stop repeating in every post "I can't believe how long it has been since I last posted anything...." Wish me luck. Although the time has passed, hands have not been idle. The big impetus for this update was the work that was accomplished last weekend, thanks to dear friends (and ex-college roommates) who drove great distances to help spend a weekend thrashing on my car--one of whom was the same driver from post #1 who helped me tow my first Camaro home, roughly 35 years ago.... Also had the help of my older brother, who has been mentioned numerous times here, as well as another brother who is not as mechanically inclined but is a good companion and eager parts store runner.

As has been mentioned, my focus has predominantly been on doing what it takes to get the motor running some day, but there are a few "guilty pleasure" projects that are just too cool to pass up. There's a lot of ground to cover, so let's get started.

With the headers removed for welding, it made the installation of the Lingenfelter oil pressure adapter a cinch.
83249

Some people should not be allowed near a project with power tools; I am one of them. This is pretty much how the fuse panel opening looked before I got to it (although you can see that I'm already beginning to butcher it slightly)
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Then after, having been attacked with Holcutter, reciprocating saw and finally Dremel with a side-cutting bit; hopefully with the engine side connectors attached, my butchery will not be so noticeable
83252

Looks nice from the inside!
83253

One could make an argument that gauges are critical to engine fire-up, so I went to town installing a full set of New Vintage gauges. Since the speedo and tach now incorporate the gauges that were in the console, that makes room for new gauges down there...
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They say that the journey of a thousand miles (of wire) begins with the first crimp. Well, here it is:
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After re-doing this at least three times, finally got to the point where I felt that the rear harness wiring was "good enough." The installation of the fuse panel was precipitating by the installation of the rear harness which was needed to be able to run the control wire to the Vaporworx controller that will be in the trunk; I wasn't sure where the actual connection was made to the rear body harness so all of this needed to go in so that I could be certain that I had left myself enough slack.
83258

Now we're cooking with gas! The first task I threw at friend Brent was the install of the intake (after messing around with my plans for the LS steam vents a bit) and he tackled it like a real trooper; looks good!
83259

Looks like that's all of the photos that I can upload; I hope that's not Forum-wide; just this post. We'll see in a minute!

Thanks for hanging in with me.

[sjaroslo]

Just like from the movie Amadeus, who was accused of using "too many notes" in his composition, I've posted too many pictures during my time on Pro-Touring.com! Hopefully I've cleaned up enough to be able to soldier on.

Turning attention to the engine bay, we were able to get quite a bit accomplished over the weekend. Project #2 for Brent was the installation of the DSE Wiper Motor, and it took a cooperative effort from all of us to transition to the Ring Brothers billet reservoir for the clutch M/C. Also, although you cannot see it, the much belly-ached-about fuel and brake hardlines are installed, if not exactly in place yet...
83262

Here's what we started with from GM regarding the crankshaft pulley
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Here's where we ended up with the beginning of the installation of the Wegner system!
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Friend Doug dived in where I feared to tread and took on the challenge of mocking up the Ironworks DBW throttle pedal bracket; what I had at first thought was going to be too daunting and potentially rife with peril looks like it might just work out OK after all. Unfortunately, I was left with a pile of parts while I sent the bracket out to get powdercoated
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It was worth the wait, bracket looks fantastic and better still, it looks like it is going to be a great fit for the car (we modified the mounting holes early on in an effort to see if we could install without completely dismantling the pedal assembly; we could not):
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Doug also bravely manned the enormous Holcutter for the installation of the II Much fuel vent. He spends a lot of time around manufacturing equipment and sheet metal tools and parts, and he declared the Holcutter the "greatest thing ever." It made short work of the actual cutting (after I agonized over the location for an eternity)
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On Sunday, after Doug and Brent departed, my brother and I unboxed the Vintage Air equipment for the first time in many, many months. If you've followed the thread, you might remember that while the Camaro was off at the body spa in Florida, I helped him to install a Vintage Air in the 66 Corvette, so he had been champing at the bit to put some of our newfound wisdom to work on returning the favor.
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I also spent some quality time at the workbench and prepared the controls for the GenIV system
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While I was at the powdercoater, I also dropped off the coil pack brackets, which you also might recognize from an earlier post. I chose gloss black for them, as they will likely end up being mounted to the gloss black subframe; I chose satin black for the Ironworks bracket as I'm just hoping that it disappears up under the dash.
83268

Well, that's about it for now, guys. I appreciate your time and especially your comments and questions. Thanks.

[sjaroslo]

Pretty much wrapped up the Wegner installation today. also did some more prep work for the air conditioning install, like cutting out the sheet metal in the central dash, installing the defroster ducts, and modifying the central stack trim plate to accept the new Vintage air central A/C vent. Fun stuff.
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[sjaroslo]

I have been making slow progress while I can. With the help of my brother, the hydraulic system is now in and buttoned up; at some point, I'll gather up enough gumption to actually put some fluid in (and then look for all of the leaks!). Yesterday I ordered some screws that I need to button up the steering column/pedals/DBW throttle portion, so I will be excited to get that done and get the column back in. The console gauges are wired, as is the instrument cluster, and I've put together a harness to run all of the things that will get their power and signal from the bulkhead connector; I'll trim it to length and install it once I'm a little further along with the wiring and dash. Hopefully will be able to take a day off of work towards the end of the year when my brother is here and begin to wrestle with heater and A/C hoses, as well as trying to find a home for the A/C dryer, the coolant overflow tank, and the Norris PCV catch can, all of the while leaving room for the Rally Sport headlight doors to open. Should be "fun."

Another task that I was semi-terrified of was making up the PTFE-lined hoses for the fuel supply and the gas tank vent--it turned out to be very, very easy. Although VERY expensive, I would highly recommend the fittings and hose from Pegasus Racing (I believe Goodridge product?). I went with the black Aramid hose with their black and silver fittings and couldn't be happier with how they turned out.

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Now just need to pester my neighbor who has an air compressor to test and I'll be able to button up the fuel system, too.

The length of the list of things that still need to be done is intimidating, but there is some light at the end of the tunnel, at least in getting the motor to fire. Thanks for checking in on my thread.

[Bossed]

Cool story. Good looking car, best of luck with the completion.

Bossed

[Steve68]

coming along nicely......

[130fe]

Great to see some progress Steve. Were you able to add those pins to the GMPP bulkhead connector? If so, what crimper did you use? I am about to start my wiring also.

[FRENCHBLUE72]

Great story and cool build thanks for posting it..

[sjaroslo]

Great to see some progress Steve. Were you able to add those pins to the GMPP bulkhead connector? If so, what crimper did you use? I am about to start my wiring also.

Yes, it was easy. I had a crimper with dies for a Weatherpak kit and it worked just fine. The pin is fairly long so I think that you do need a die that is deep and has jaws to crimp both the wire and the insulation (as most crimpers do). I think with the Weatherpak it did not quite crimp the insulation down as small as the wire is but I just gently used a conventional crimper to close that down.

Chris, you got the pins and seals that I sent you, right?

[sjaroslo]

With the help of my friend Doug a week ago we were able to knock quite a few things off of my list:

1. Able to mount up the computer under the right front fender using a Rally Sport Headlamp Door Relay bracket (holds the Rally Sport headlight door relays together usually under the driver's fender)
2. Drilled a Big A$$ Hole through the firewall for the Speartech grommet for the accelerator pedal and OBDII harness to pass through
3. Drilled a smaller hole through the passenger footwell for the AAW positive battery cable bulkhead connector to pass through
4. Drilled a smaller hole still in the same general area for the A/C evaporator drain hose to pass through
5. Devised an approach for mounting the A/C dryer that ought to hold it securely and relatively "out of the way"
6. Played with the very cool Fesler fender struts that I had purchased (not taking in to account that I changed out the stock radiator support and sub-frame, etc.) and came up with a pretty easy fix to be able to use them
7. Still stumped by where to mount my coil packs, but came up with a couple of ideas that could still work (and it helps that Doug has access to metal-working equipment :yeah:)

I also pulled out for the first time the Spectre Cold Air Intake that I got as a birthday present back in 2011 and looked at what it is going to take to make it work in the car; answer is A LOT! But I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, which is still a ways down the road.

Purchased some power steering hose and hose ends from Fragola last week and also bought the DSE Power Steering Hardline Relocation piece, which looks like a nice product but I'm not certain is going to justify its $60 price tag once I get it; I will reserve judgment until it arrives this Friday. Also decided to give it a shot and ordered the Braille B3121 battery and the B&B Classics mount for it. Got the battery but I am hoping that the mount is on its way, as I haven't heard anything from B&B yet. So, all of this takes me a step closer to being able to turn over the motor someday.... Nothing really too exciting picture-wise and since I'm running out of bandwidth for uploading pictures to the site, I'll just let this post stay "text-only." Thanks for reading.

[130fe]

Steve, yes, I received the pins. Thanks a lot! I am also in the middle of wiring. I am taking my time, being really anal about the whole thing. I also sent my car to the same car spa and am trying "fix" some things that were done. The part I hate is when you pay someone to do something a certain way and they don't do it. At least I have plenty of time to do it.

[sjaroslo]

I realize now that I didn't actually put my wiring and connector together correctly :-( I think I had pulled out my DSE wiper motor wiring harness and was looking at it and realized that you're supposed to crimp the wire seal/dust boot on as part of the assembly :-) That's why my crimpers didn't crimp all of the way down on to the insulation of the wire, because it was expecting to be crimping down on to the dust boot. Embarassing! If I can disassemble it I will probably do it over. D'oh!

[sjaroslo]

I have a plan.... It may not be a good plan, it might not be a viable plan, but it is, nonetheless, a plan.... My brother and I tried to install the A/C unit using continuous hoses from the unit through the fresh air vent and out the fan hole in the firewall under the fender, but that did not work out as planned; it was virtually impossible to manhandle 4 hoses and the evaporator and get it through all of the openings with all of the changes in direction and the general interference between the evaporator and the hoses, so I changed direction. I bought a triple black round Synister bulkhead from Restomod Air and I'm going to use that as a junction point right at the fresh air vent--hopefully, this will make all of the routing and connections easier to manage. The whole idea of using the continuous hoses was to eliminate potential leak spots, but sometimes you've just got to say "what the ***" and change your plans. I was inspired by GRNOVA's thread https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/82095-A-C-fittings in which you can also witness more of my trials & tribulations....

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I'm planning on using Fragola Series 8000 push-lok hose and Eaton E-Z Clip refrigerant lines, as witnessed by the connectors. I'm planning on looping the hoses around like Tim did (as well as the original DSE inspiration) and mount the heater control valve under there as well. I've verified that the assembly fits into the fresh air opening but I need to mock it up with the evaporator in place as well so that I can be sure everything fits. I guess that I can move the evaporator around a little if I need to, but my nice smoothed firewall is going to look like Swiss cheese before I'm through...:banghead:

Also, I sourced a carbon fiber sheet and am attempting to locate/mount some of the paraphernalia that is going to exist in the trunk in a somewhat organized manner. The Vaporworx controller and fuse and the AAW remote disconnect with Lifeline are all mounted to the carbon fiber, and then the carbon fiber will be mounted to the trunk floor with some nylon spacers/standoffs. I can't believe that I was stupid enough to notch the carbon fiber to clear a bumper brace--I was mocking it up with the CF sitting right against the floor and would have needed the notch for clearance--but I totally overlooked the fact that I was planning on mounting it 3/4" above the trunk floor, in which case the notch wasn't required.... :hammer:
92831

Progress has been slow, and I would like to say that is has been steady, but the reality is that I need to step it up some. I've gotten a little side-tracked on the A/C (because this is the part that my brother has been most excited about helping me with) but I need to re-focus efforts on doing what it takes to be able to fire up the motor--the longer it sits (2+ years now!) the worse off it is going to be. Thanks for reading.

[sjaroslo]

Although much time has passed, much work has been accomplished. A/C Evaporator is in and plumbed inside the car, positive battery cable is run from the trunk to the bulkhead passthrough on the passenger floor, Braille battery and bracket installed in the trunk, much of the wiring for the Vaporworx controller and the remote disconnect is done, working on running the ground cable to the chassis and to the front of the car as well, and the driver's side header is finally reinstalled and the exhaust piping is back to being complete. Also filled the oil filter with oil and bolted it up (hoping that will help with building pressure for initial start up). But I don't have any photos of any of that--haven't actually poked around inside the passenger compartment for a while, letting the spiders have their way with it for a bit until I vacuum them all up. Instead I've been trying to put a dent into the engine compartment.

Finally figured out where to put the coils and how to mount them. Ordered some neat hardware from McMaster-Carr, had a local machinist touch it up so that it all fit, and my brother and I went to town with the drill making holes in a crossmember of the Art Morrison sub-frame.
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Aesthetics sure go out the window once you lay the GM EFI harness under the hood. In is a tight fit to be able to connect to the computer under the fender and still be able to get on to the #8 injector, among other indignities. I have nothing but respect for the people that have the time and patience to wire these things up without actually showing any wires!
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Had to get creative on how to mount and pipe the A/C drier, as none of the custom tube places could bend up hardlines to my spec, so I had to go with the stock Vintage Air pipes for a 67 Camaro and tweak them (since I'm not using the VA condenser or the stock radiator support). Thank goodness I was able to make these work without destroying them too badly.
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Found a home for the Painless F5 controller, just need to focus on putting the loom together now.
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Installed the 3rd water temp sender under the hood (this one in the passenger head to drive the New Vintage water temp gauge, the stock one in the driver's head to talk to the computer, and the 3rd one in the radiator to drive the F5).
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Trying to wrap up all of the hoses. I got every A/C hose/line connected until the very last one--connecting the #6 hose from the evaporator to the #6 hardline to the condenser. I realized a few weeks ago that the hardline had a female fitting, as did the EZ Clip hose end that I had, so I needed to buy a male EZ Clip hose end, EXCEPT that I didn't realize that both the hardline and the fitting I bought had male o-ring plumbing, too. So, I discovered the meaning of the "male o-ring insert" fitting that I had glossed over when ordering the other male fitting. These are $30+ mistakes every time they happen.
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This is a nice piece from March that changes the direction of the connections on the compressor.
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It's hard to see but I was working on the LS engine steam vent plumbing when I got called from work and had to deal with an incident for 4 hours--more lost garage time! The small black hose with the blue tracer connects to nice Wegner fittings that bolt to the block and replace the stock steam piping. Although I was planning on using Fragola hose and fittings for most things, I COULD NOT get their -4 hose on to their fitting to save my life, so I ended up finding Vibrant Performance stuff from Summit. Although it is made in China, it went together very nicely and I'm happy with it. Still have to cut and terminate the end of the hose that goes into the radiator.
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Next on tap are ordering my Firecore 50 plug wires and seeing if Speartech can make me up a custom coil harness to fit the new location. I have both requests all documented and teed up so hopefully will be able to get working on those soon. Need to keep working on the grounding system and create a wire loom for the couple of wires coming out of the horseshoe-shaped fuse panel connector (I have already made up the loom for the front of the car, just need to install it). Also need to put together a harness for the NVU fuel pressure, A/F ratio and oil temperature gauges that I'm putting in my console, as well as wiring in the F5. And about a million other things, but the lists are getting shorter.

[sjaroslo]

Power steering hoses done (for the most part--there was no way humanly possible to get those fittings started once that hose was jammed into that hose end, so I cheated and bored out the end of the hose with a drill in order to be able to at least start the threading. Remains to be seen if it will leak or not).
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Custom FireCore 50 plug wires installed
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Trying to get prepped to measure for a driveshaft. With the car resting on all 4 tires, I took some baseline measurements--do you believe the pointer, which is showing damn close to Zero or do you trust the iPhone which is showing 4 degrees? Regardless, I've now jacked the car up on stands, and when I'm ready, I'll support the frame in the front but the rear end in the rear, so that the rear suspension is loaded at ride height but the car actually has enough room to work underneath it. I'll do my best to recreate the same angle/tilt so that accurate driveshaft measurements can be taken.
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[Motown 454]

I just read the whole thread again. I'm loving what your doing, you have a beautiful build. You've got some amazing parts on this car and I'm pulling for you to get it started. I love that you post a lot of pictures and links to your other threads on single parts of this build, I've subscribed to some of the others too for reference when I get to that part of my build. Please keep the updates coming very interesting.

Wayne

[67goatman455]

pointer. go with the pointer. Lookin good though man!

[sjaroslo]

pointer. go with the pointer. Lookin good though man!

Thanks, that's what I was thinking as well.... Now that I can get under the car I can start to figure out what the driveline angles are going to be, I guess. No shortage of driveline angle threads on the board!

[sjaroslo]

Front lighting/engine bay/alternator harnesses are ready to go in.
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Was able to get a quick bracket made out of 16 gauge sheet metal and drilled it and painted it this morning, installed it this afternoon.
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Back up in the air again. Planning on bleeding the brakes, measuring for a driveshaft, adding fluids to the trans and the rear end.
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Fun, fun, fun!

[Motown 454]

Nice progress!

[sjaroslo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nxKzqRG1ik&feature=youtu.be
It isn't much, I understand, but after sitting as an inert lump for over 2 years, this is pretty damned exciting! The battery charger says that the battery is now charged, so maybe tomorrow we try it again. It's nowhere near ready to fire off, but if nothing else just getting different valve springs compressed has got to be a good thing! I'll take off the tape on the intake before I try to crank it again :-)

[Motown 454]

I see your point anything is exciting! Good luck tomorrow, I'll be watching for the video!!

[130fe]

Great to hear on the progress Steve! I finally got mine on the road late last week after some shakedown run problems. It is a great feeling!

[sjaroslo]

Congratulations, Chris! Did you post about that? If you don't post it, it didn't happen ?

[snappytravis]

Looking good, Yes it is amazing how much gratification we get over the simple things,, That's what will make that car run all those little things. I will be watching for a video when you get it fired up.

[Spork82]

Steve,

I just went through your entire thread and wow! So much dedication and attention to detail. Stories like these is what keeps the passion and drive going for the rest of us. Never give up.

[sjaroslo]

Never surrender! :-)

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Steve congrats on the great progress. Man I was watching that vid going, 'don't, don't!' with the tape on the TB. then I read your post.

You got me, lol.

[sjaroslo]

Won't be the first bonehead thing that I've done, nor likely the last :-). Thanks for posting, sorry for having caused you anxiety!

[sjaroslo]

So, I removed the spark plugs and jockeyed things around by hand, made sure that the new battery was fully charged, and rolled the dice. You should be able to figure out the first "good news" and the second "good news" but then at around the 13-second mark, you'll hear the BAD news:

http://vid867.photobucket.com/albums/ab240/sjaroslo/IMG_0249_zpslmtx5sel.mp4

So, it turns over--that's good. It finally made oil pressure--that's REALLY good, I was sweatin' it. With the clutch pedal depressed, the godawful banging seems to go away, but with it at normal rest, YUCK. I see a transmission dropping on my chest in the future.

This is a DEFINITE downside to having the shop that did the work roll up its carpets and close the doors. I know that he had to screw around with things to make the trans and clutch all play together, but I don't know WHAT he did and I'll never be able to ask, so I think that some forensic disassembly is in my future.

This is a Tremec T56 Magnum 6-speed, with a stock Cadillac CTS-V clutch (dual disk), Quicktime bellhousing and a hydraulic clutch. There is a spacer between the engine block and the bellhousing, and I know that he had to order some kind of part from Katech and I think that he had also had something "machined down"--what, I cannot remember and might never know. Since I also noticed that the clutch was leaking fluid I kind of figured that disassembly was coming, anyway.

Welcome to any suggestions regarding possible causes of the banging sounds. Thanks!

[Motown 454]

Headed in the right direction, but I wish it would have been all good news.

[sjaroslo]

Played around with the Power Probe a little bit; at least I know that the headlight doors close and the right front parking light and turn signal bulb works, as well as the console ashtray courtesy lamp, in addition to the lighting below :-) My brother is coming down tomorrow to help move along the A/C install and I'm gearing up to try to get some behind-the-dash wiring moving forward, too. And I bought a borescope (inspection camera) at Lowe's today so I might see what there is to see inside the bellhousing and figure out what is banging. And while I'm under there, I'll certainly be sizing up what the scope of dropping the trans is going to be. I don't think it will be that hard, but I think that a low profile trans jack is called for :-).

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(New Vintage USA gauges, BTW)

[Motown 454]

Nice looking gauges.

[sjaroslo]

Well, I had to make some strategic decisions. Do I know how to take out a trans and/or an engine? I think that I do. Do I have the desire, the tools, and the space to do it, on my already painted car? Turns out, I did not. So I reached out to the good folks at East Bay Muscle Cars and asked if they would be willing to take on the forensic disassembly, the repair, and, as long as they have the car, several more tasks that I just wasn't looking forward to accomplishing, and much to my delight, they were. So Steve from EBMC now has my baby and has given it a pretty thorough going-over, and I think that we have a path to get the car moving forward once again on its journey to completion.

First, the analysis of the banging. Basically, trying to pack 10 lbs of ***** into an 8 lb bellhousing just doesn't work! The banging turned out to be three finger-like structures on the clutch beating the throwout bearing anti-rotation/alignment pin into submission:
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Also, the throwout bearing was so jammed in there the top of it mushroomed out a bit (as you can also see above), but there definitely wasn't the proper clearance between it and the clutch diaphragm. And finally, even with the trans spaced back from the block, the input shaft was jammed into the clutch disc right up to the end of the taper of the splines; you can see the shiny part where it was jammed up against the end:
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So the solution, which luckily for me EBMC had to solve with another customer car as well, is to change out to an LS-to-Viper T56 scattershield, which provides more room in the bellhousing, and a small spacer between the trans case and the scattershield (I believe from American Powertrain). This is the GTO where they solved the issue:
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While they have the car, I've asked EBMC to:

Set up the rear suspension (including re-designing/welding the mounting brackets for the Alston rear sway bar endlinks, that were not necessarily done to EBMC's satisfaction)
Order and install a driveshaft
"Nut-and-bolt" the front suspension
A variety of exhaust issues need attention, which is going to be a challenge for them because of the way I'd like to have it done, but I have faith in their ability
And some cosmetic issues and some door and glass issues

Steve has been great to work with and I have made a couple of shop visits already and I'm very pleased with their work and their thoroughness, thoughtfulness and professional approach.

I think that I'm going to get a vehicle back that will have many of the "hurdles" that were going to challenge my abilities actually squared away, which is going to make my willingness to keep on cranking on this thing just reset back into the "green." I'm excited again!

[130fe]

Steve, sorry to hear about the bad stuff. Just remember to keeping pushing forward and you will be happy in the end. Wish I was closer, I would come give you a hand! (Would be fun drive in my car up the coast though) LOL

[Motown 454]

Glad your getting it sorted out, Having the tedious stuff finished will make the rest of the build more enjoyable.

[67SSDan]

This thing is sweet! My car was originally butternut and I always hated that color... until I saw this build. Keep it up man, you're almost there!

Dan

[sjaroslo]

Thank you all for the words of encouragement, it means a lot. I'm excited about getting the issues addressed and getting the car back in my garage and picking up where I left off. Get to focus on wiring and getting it ready to run!

[sjaroslo]

ttt

[sjaroslo]

It's been a while since the last update, so we're probably due. EBMC has been cranking on the car pretty frequently, considering how many cars they have in the shop, so I've been grateful. A lot of time has gone into working on the exhaust, as it turns out that the pipes from the headers to the mufflers were pretty beat up, plus they've been working on getting the tailpipes cleanly up-and-over the g-link. The oval tubing that was purchased was not quite up to snuff out of the box, so unfortunately EBMC has had to burn a few hours making it right so that the total package is going to look and perform appropriately. As previously chronicled, they purchased a Viper-to-T56 scattershield, which has just a skosh more room in it, plus a 1/4" spacer to pull the input shaft back a little bit and allow the clutch disks to ride the splines and not jam against their shoulder. An OEM-style throwout was also procured.
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Interesting note about the Viper scattershield--it appears that they have made a running production change and are now clocking the transmission a few degrees off from straight up-and-down. So this looks kind of funky from underneath, so the guys fabbed up a little shield that hides the angle from the eye and makes it look more pleasing--even though most people will never see this view. I really like that.110626110627

Several months ago, I was able to purchase a brand new CTS-V clutch & flywheel at a reasonable price from a member of this board who just happened to live a few blocks away from me; my thinking was that I would squirrel it away for the inevitable rainy day, but when I realized how much trans stuff was going on to fix this issue, I decided that I'd have EBMC install the nice new shiny parts on the car, and I will put the "unused" but still new, lightly surface-rusted stuff up for sale (along with the "unused" new original scattershield) and hopefully re-coup a bit of the money that is going out.

Other chores that I've tasked Steve and the crew with (or that they've discovered):
rear end was 1/4" off-center
notched the scattershield for improved header clearance (more on that later)
verify the starter gear depth and alignment (I wasn't able to do that with the engine and trans together initially)
new clutch bleeder line (more on that later)
V-Band clamps and associated welding
Fill trans with fluid
Fill brakes with fluid and bleed
tunnel clearanced for trans
driveline angles were established & Driveshaft has been ordered and installed!
Shifter opening has been cleaned up a ton and a screw-in cover plate fabricated, which will have just as small a hole where the shifter needs to poke through--can't express how happy I am with this improvement!
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With regard to the header clearance, I approved Steve's suggestion that we modify the header angle in addition to notching the scattershield. The headers just were not aligning well with the cutouts in the Morrison subframe, and we really didn't want to be having to wrangle things into position under tension in order to get it to fit nicely. Frank touted these headers as custom units that he had commissioned from Stainless Works that would work with a variety of aftermarket sub-frames, but whether that is true or not, I couldn't say. Either way, they just weren't quite cutting it so they went under the knife. I hate having to pay for things that I've already paid for! They are adding V-Band clamps at the headers and the back of the mufflers, so future re-assembly should be a heck of a lot easier.

With regard to the clutch bleeder line, they were planning on re-using the AP Racing M/C that was already there and just running a new line to the slave, but realized late in the game that the line attached to the M/C was a captive line--you couldn't remove the line that was there and replace it with something of a different length, etc., so we'll be replacing the entire clutch M/C and line with something new, possibly from Wilwood. In a perfect world, I am hoping that EBMC might be able to weld in the bracket to the firewall and give me a fighting chance of being watertight! But I think that will be tough with a finished firewall already there. At least with a completely new mechanical set up, I'll be able to rely on them to check the clutch geometry and install a clutch pedal stop, if deemed necessary, etc.

I believe that more work is scheduled for this week, so I am going to be anxiously looking forward to new updates and the next opportunity to pay the shop a visit. Thanks for taking the time to follow along.

[sjaroslo]

OK, either the Forum or me is having a bad night, I'm done screwing around with these photos, sorry!

[Spork82]

Steve I'm happy to hear that the end is near and more importanly you will have a safe and functional car! Keep us updated with the progress and see some pictures of this machine on the road!

I have a small update on my build but its not a good one, it involves a closed trailer and faulty straps...(More likely my fault for rushing)

[Motown 454]

Sounds like its going well for you, glad to hear it. I couldn't see the photos either. I'll be watching for them later.

[KB Camaro]

hi sorry if i missed it but what headers are you running?

[sjaroslo]

They are from Stainless Works. The original builder claimed that they were made custom for him to be used in a variety of sub-frames but I'm not sure that I believe that story now. They work pretty well in my Art Morrison sub-frame with the exception of the bungs for the 02 sensors, which pointed outboard and were mere inches away from the frame--no way to get a sensor in there. I bought stainless plugs and bungs from Stainless Works and closed op the original holes and had a local welder add the new bungs on the inboard side of the collector, where there is plenty of room. Thanks for reading.

[snappytravis]

They are from Stainless Works. The original builder claimed that they were made custom for him to be used in a variety of sub-frames but I'm not sure that I believe that story now. They work pretty well in my Art Morrison sub-frame with the exception of the bungs for the 02 sensors, which pointed outboard and were mere inches away from the frame--no way to get a sensor in there. I bought stainless plugs and bungs from Stainless Works and closed op the original holes and had a local welder add the new bungs on the inboard side of the collector, where there is plenty of room. Thanks for reading.

Mine are the same,, Never could figure that one out. I had issues with the collector lining up with the AME crossmember where the holes are.. I almost wish I had gone with some of the shorter style headers. Then you could do your down pipe and make it where you need it to be in the crossmember. Hope your making progress Steve.

[sjaroslo]

Yep, the team at East Bay Muscle cars had to spend quite a bit of time working over the headers to clear the scattershield and to line up with the clearance notches in the subframe. If these were custom made headers they didn't fit the bill very well....

[sjaroslo]

Kusi was asking about my Ironworks throttle bracket. Here are a couple of pictures, showing the additional bracing that EBMC added (rod from bracket to steering column mounting stud) and trying to show how the pedals lay out--probably NOT as GM envisioned....

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117771

[Motown 454]

Hi Steve have you tried out sitting in it to see how the placement for the pedal feels? I may end up with one of these brackets for my 69.

[KUSI]

Thanks for posting the pictures. I am sure this is going to help out quite a few people trying to decide what to do about their dbw pedal. There are obviously other options such as fab bosses or welding plates if you are still in the prefab/prepaint phase. However, if you have a completed or smoothed firewall you are probably just left with this Ironworks setup/Cadillac CTS-V pedal or using the Detroit Speed setup with the Corvette style pedal. Good luck with the rest of the build.

[sjaroslo]

Here's what I wrote to KUSI:

Overall I am happy with the Ironworks bracket. I will try to get out there in the next day or two to show you a picture. There are a couple of minor drawbacks, I think, though. I have to say, I haven't gotten my car running, so I've never driven it, so these are just static observations. I'm just about 6' tall, but I'm pretty heavy, and I think that I'm going to be pretty uncomfortable with things the way they are currently. I think that the pedal could be moved another 1" or 2" away from me and still have plenty of room to function (but I don't know how that will line up with GM's pedal spacing recommendations). The brake pedal doesn't feel in an uncomfortable position for me but I'm afraid that the gas might be. The 2nd issue with the bracket is that it is only held in place around the steering column, and the actual bracket where the pedal attaches is kind of "cantilevered" out and is just sort of hanging in free space. While the bracket is in fact pretty beefy steel, it still has a little bit of flex out there.... Probably not serious but just kind of weird. You'll see from my pictures that East Bay Muscle Cars just welded a small support rod to it that stiffens it up a bit.

The whole reason that I bought the bracket in the first place was so that I didn't have to do any welding, but had I known that I was going to have to put the car into another high end shop for the repairs that I did, I would have just asked them to fab and weld a mount directly to the floor. But for a no-weld solution, I haven't seen anything else out there and it is an OK part. It does come as raw metal so you'll definitely want to plan on paint or powdercoat (which is what I did).

[Motown 454]

Thanks for reposting that reply. I'm in the same boat with my fire wall painted already

[sjaroslo]

I know that I haven't posted in a LONG time and while it IS unfortunately a reflection of some frustration and mildly waning interest, this is a milestone event nonetheless, so I wanted to share with the PT community.

https://youtu.be/MmUZG-bqN3w

After returning from a 10 or 15 minute cruise around the block (and around and around and around), I was starting to hear some unusual groans from the passenger rear, and when I walked over to that corner after parking I could feel a wave of heat coming off the wheel and wheelwell, so I suspect that maybe I'm dragging a parking brake there? Regardless, it needs attention before I can start to deal with the 100 other things that have now popped up....

But the ride was not too bad and oh, my, the Magnum T56 shifts like butter. I'm definitely not good at feeling where the clutch take-up is, yet, so starting out from a stop was fairly comical.

[Motown 454]

Congrats Steve, you talk about 100 things to do, at least with taking it for a ride you can identify them now. Keep plugging away.

[sjaroslo]

I have no choice! :-)

[130fe]

Steve, good to see it moving! My wife was laughing about the neighbors car alarm set off by your car. What are the gauges do you have in the console? Who makes them?

[sjaroslo]

Steve, good to see it moving! My wife was laughing about the neighbors car alarm set off by your car. What are the gauges do you have in the console? Who makes them?

All of the gauges I'm using are from New Vintage USA. Still haven't figured out why the air/fuel gauge and the oil temperature gauge aren't working. Got the tach working (it needed the pull-up resistor that they talked about in the instructions and that was provided) but I have it set up for an 8-cylinder and I guess the GM controller puts out a 4-cylinder signal. Speedo isn't working but I think that's because I need to calibrate it before it will work. "Check engine" light I don't think is working because the polarity needs to be inverted to match what the GM unit puts out.

Obviously haven't lived with them long enough to form any opinions yet.

[sjaroslo]

137059

Drips on drips on drips!

[sjaroslo]

I'm really pleased with the results of this, for a first time effort and with everything being pretty bone stock. 500+ at the rear wheels is more than anything I've ever owned. Turn up the volume and enjoy!

https://youtu.be/F12qENxynoo

[Motown 454]

It sounds great! I can't wait until I hear mine.

[MOREHORSEPOWER]

Nice wright up on this cool ride !!

[130fe]

Sounds great Steve! Nice HP numbers!

[sjaroslo]

Is there a statute of limitations on how long one can wait between posting updates on their project car? If so, I am probably pushing them a little. 5 years seems like a lot. I have made the occasional update to the car over the years, but I'm definitely not getting the use and enjoyment out of it that I had hoped for. But, we soldier on. As I am mostly a nuts-and-bolts guy, I have been putting off finishing the interior for a long time but that time has finally come, thanks to the help and encoragement of two very good friends from college (40 years ago). And so, here we are: ACC carpet kit, black Essex material with the mass backing, going in, along with a lot of trim pieces and the rear Morris Classic 3-point safety belts. Am anxious to get this part behind me and see if the presence of carpet does anything to help with the noise.

200085

[130fe]

Looks good Steve!

[sjaroslo]

Got the passenger rear buttoned up like the driver's. Trimmed and glued the vinyl flap for the rear package tray. I think that I'm ready to bolt down the shoulder belts and install the seatback and then the seat bottom next.

200133

200132

[sjaroslo]

I am calling this "done." Rear mini-tubs really messed up my ability to do a nicely finished rear seat area but I'm still pleased with how it all turned out (please ignore the green tape :pat:). Making the rear seat fit and installing the carpet were two millstones around my neck but it feels really good to have them in the rear view mirror. Just need to give it a really good vacuum, install the console (actually attaching it to the car for the first time ever), connect up all of the electrical and re-install my front seats. Then time to do some driving!

200193200194

[sjaroslo]

Slowly but surely. I think I just need to make electrical connections and install the console. It is expected to be 95* here on Friday so just in time to be able to take a little cruise, maybe...

200354

[Steve68]

nobody truly understands the time, patience, love, sweat, irritation the people put into redoing theses cars, I saw where I commented on your post, but it was so long ago, I didn't remember,

I actually went through 1-6, and was like wow, one that made it out with parts, you've come a long way and should be proud, I actually started building my car when Steilow was building the Red Witch, and Hot Rod was showing what he had done! I raised 3 girls, traveled for work 7 times a year for 15 yrs, bought a big house, built a shop, and moved 4 months later to Virginia for a job, separated from the wife after 20 yrs, and have my big house and the shop, play in there daily!!!!

My 68, nowhere near done, but farther than before........ am I running out of time? yes!

Car looks killer, attention to detail is really nice, interior will make such a big difference, actually makes the car enjoyable,

I'm done, finish it up and enjoy it, drive the wheels off it, and all that crap you went through, here in Orlando I saw it all, I heard it all, I watched the wave get to big and the ocean swallow him up,

[sjaroslo]

Yeah, man, I know that you were one of my OG posters, I appreciate it. Sounds like you have lived some life during the course of these builds.... Now I'm just trying to figure out what comes next.

[Steve68]

Yeah, man, I know that you were one of my OG posters, I appreciate it. Sounds like you have lived some life during the course of these builds.... Now I'm just trying to figure out what comes next.


I have lived a life, interesting? yes, cool?, sometimes, frustrating!!! sure can be, help, not much around here, take everything day by day! do what I can do when I can,

Hell, I made a post years ago, someone told me about it, I don't remember it, but yup, its there!

I added some pics here and there, and some info, I too try to figure out what comes next!

[shakey]

Hi Steve you recently had you 1967 camaro for sale on Bring a trailer, but it did not meet reserve. I'm wondering if you still own it or did you sell it.




Thanks Shakey

[sjaroslo]

Hi Steve you recently had you 1967 camaro for sale on Bring a trailer, but it did not meet reserve. I'm wondering if you still own it or did you sell it.




Thanks Shakey

You are correct, it did not make my reserve. I still own it, and am planning on making some much needed improvements, but am also still working with a potential buyer who has been interested throughout the auction. Thank you for participating in the auction, it is appreciated.

FWIW I have already replaced the run flat tires and have seen an unexpectedly marked improvement in the ride. Every bump or misalignment of the concrete panels in the road caused a "sharp" reaction before, much to the detriment of the overall ride quality, but the new non-run-flat Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's just kind of smooth that out a bit. Highly recommended!

Steve

[shakey]

Glad the tires improved the ride, you did a nice job on the car can't see it needing much more in improvements. What else have you got planned?

I am also very interested in buying your car, please keep me in the loop of your progress with the sale.


Thanks Shakey

[Pedigry]

Love the colour. The interior turned out great as well. I spend so much time trying to get the mechanics of the car worked out that my interior has suffered. Some day I will get to it but yours is amazing, great job. Keep the pics coming.

[sshedley]

Slowly but surely. I think I just need to make electrical connections and install the console. It is expected to be 95* here on Friday so just in time to be able to take a little cruise, maybe...

200354
I am glad to find this thread, I'm currently doing the deluxe interior on my 67. Unfortunately mine is missing a lot of parts as I bought it from someone who gave up on it as their project.
Great pics and time line has helped me and yours looks fantastic.

[sjaroslo]

Love the colour. The interior turned out great as well. I spend so much time trying to get the mechanics of the car worked out that my interior has suffered. Some day I will get to it but yours is amazing, great job. Keep the pics coming.

I am 100% in your camp on this one. Waited until the very bitter end to start dealing with the interior; I would much rather be doing mechanical things any day of the week. It photographs well but aesthetics are not really my bag, so don't be too hard on yourself. Once you've got the mechanics ironed out and you're enjoying the car, the time will come to tackle the interior and you'll get it done. Thank you for the kind words.

- - - Updated - - -


Glad the tires improved the ride, you did a nice job on the car can't see it needing much more in improvements. What else have you got planned?

I am also very interested in buying your car, please keep me in the loop of your progress with the sale.


Thanks Shakey

I will indeed. Probably nothing happening until January, and then we'll see if anything develops. I appreciate your continued support.

[sjaroslo]

"I am glad to find this thread, I'm currently doing the deluxe interior on my 67. Unfortunately mine is missing a lot of parts as I bought it from someone who gave up on it as their project.
Great pics and time line has helped me and yours looks fantastic."

Thank you, always glad to hear that something from my build thread might help out a fellow gearhead. My car did not come from the factory with the deluxe interior but the previous owner had started it down this path. Wish we could have hooked up sooner as there was no one interested in the old front seats (which granted were missing the seat backs) but I ended up just putting them out on the curb for someone to salvage :-(. Good luck pulling together what you need. Thank you for the kind words.